[kwlug-disc] Ubuntu LTS future

Fri Jun 26 15:16:25 EDT 2020

I've been using Ubuntu 20.04 pretty much since release at the end of 
April on my main desktop for school and play, and honestly I generally 
forget snaps are even installed. Given, I'm using a pretty high end 
desktop, but still snaps don't get in the way and I haven't found any 
programs I use on a daily basis to be snap-ified unless they're 
incompatible otherwise (ie cherrytree because no python 2 anymore).

Yes, Canonical might be pushing a bit hard with the whole snap thing, 
but honestly between snap, flatpak, and native packages I can get 
absolutely everything I need to get work done every day, and it all 
works like a well oiled machine and has been since day one.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:22 pm, Paul Nijjar via kwlug-disc 
<kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:
> 
> In my experience with 20.04 so far, Chromium is the only package I
> noticed that has been replaced with a Snap. Khalid or others who use
> 20.04 more extensively may know more, though.
> 
> - Paul
> 
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:45:15PM -0400, Doug Moen wrote:
>>  I'm deciding how to upgrade my Ubuntu 18.04 LTS desktop.
>> 
>>  One issue is that I use ZFS and rely on Ubuntu's ZFS packaging. 
>> Most distribution don't support ZFS, so you have to roll your own. 
>> Another issue is that I have an nvidea GPU.
>> 
>>  Options:
>>   Ubuntu 20.04, but remove Snap.
>>   Pop OS 20.04. No support for ZFS on root or automatic filesystem 
>> snapshot on package install. But I could roll my own using BTRFS on 
>> root. My existing ZFS array is supported. Pop has some features i'd 
>> like to try, such as tiling window mode, and a flat pack app store. 
>> No snap and good nvidea support.
>> 
>>  Doug.
>> 
>>  On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, at 11:39 AM, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
>>  > In another thread, Paul said:
>>  >
>>  > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 8:51 PM Paul Nijjar via kwlug-disc 
>> <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org <mailto:kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>> wrote:
>>  >> Clearly LTS is losing, which means a lot more cognitive burdens 
>> for
>>  >>  sysadmins -- but at the same time Salt (and many other 
>> projects) that
>>  >>  use the rolling release "move fast and break things" approach 
>> depend
>>  >>  upon a stable Ubuntu onto which they can build THEIR software. 
>> They
>>  >>  just don't want the people USING Salt to have the same 
>> experience.
>>  >>  There is some kind of disconnect here.
>>  >>
>>  >>  In this case the situation is worse. Ubuntu included the
>>  >>  salt-master in its LTS release. Ubuntu 18.04 is still 
>> supported. But
>>  >>  the LTS release promise is now broken, because if somebody 
>> installs
>>  >>  Salt from the Ubuntu repos they will get software with a level 
>> 10 CVE.
>>  >>
>>  >>  Unfortunately, I think this means I ought to track upstream and 
>> use
>>  >>  their repos, which is another administrative headache I wanted 
>> to
>>  >>  avoid. It also means that I would now need to upgrade all my 
>> minions to
>>  >>  track the latest release, and who knows what that will break.
>>  >
>>  > Paul,
>>  >
>>  > I am in complete agreement with you here. I don't use Salt, but I 
>> know
>>  > that I want to stay with LTS releases, feeling secure. This 
>> depends on
>>  > repository governance and stewardship by those who maintain the
>>  > packages and the distro's security team.
>>  >
>>  > Lately, there have been cases where the ball was dropped (Salt is 
>> such
>>  > a case).
>>  >
>>  > More worrying is that going forward, Canonical is forging ahead 
>> with snap.
>>  > Snap freezes the dependencies of an app at a certain point. 
>> Moreover, it
>>  > requires a cluttered file system, with each app having its own 
>> /snap/xxx
>>  > file system mounted!
>>  >
>>  > On a new 20.04 LTS server install, I am getting these snap apps 
>> by default:
>>  >
>>  > /dev/loop0 72M 72M 0 100% /snap/lxd/15682
>>  > /dev/loop3 97M 97M 0 100% /snap/core/9436
>>  > /dev/loop1 72M 72M 0 100% /snap/lxd/15766
>>  >
>>  > And Canonical will be releasing Chrome/Chromium as a snap package,
>>  > encapsulated withing a .deb. This means Canonical is acting as an 
>> intermediary
>>  > unnecessarily.
>>  >
>>  > Mint decided that enough is enough, and will not support snap 
>> anymore.
>>  >
>>  > <https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-mint-dumps-ubuntu-snap/>
>>  >
>>  > All this makes me wonder whether Ubuntu should still be the 
>> favoured distro
>>  > with LTS and rich maintained repos. Should I go with Debian 
>> stable and be
>>  > done with it?
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> 
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