[kwlug-disc] What is all this about systemd?

[unsolicited]

But that is the key ... we are dependent upon the distros.

More particularly, we are dependent upon the most popular distros - 
Debian (Ubuntu), Fedora (CentOS/RHEL), or (Open)SuSe based. It is a hard 
sell to an enterprise outside of those. And even then Fedora and SuSe 
have in essence abandoned apt-get. And aside from Debian, these popular 
distros have corporate underpinnings - and thus vested interests in 
'their' way, as going concerns.

What they do over and above Linus impacts us as much or more than what 
Linus does. They're going to take his stuff regardless. How they munge 
it beyond that is beyond our control. We do not have enough feet such 
that voting with our feet is meaningful.

I can get why the desire to move away from text files - but I don't get 
not building a command line interface as part and parcel of developing 
any given API. And I can get the desire for 'one true way' for any given 
thing. Simplicity, solve the problem, and move on - except, no problem 
is static. (An attitude I find in most service people that I have to 
keep fighting - "No!" don't cinch up that tie wrap, inevitably someone 
will have to follow you with further work and leverage what you have 
done. DON'T make them cut away all your work in order to do theirs! Do 
comment your code, DO make functions that return codes!)

And I can appreciate that 'Linux' is so big a haystack that it is 
problematic integrating your 'good stuff' with everything else, rather 
than just 'solving the problem and moving on'. 'cause integrating with 
everything is an impossible perpetually ongoing task, it's too big for 
any one person to know everything, so one never actually gets closure.

And probably the single biggest reason for so many abandoned projects.


On 14-07-17 08:34 PM, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> Anyone can propose anything, no matter how absurd it is. If the FLOS (one
> S) people including Lennart Poettering want to build monolithic subsystems,
> that is fine. Let them do their thing. Others like me and you who find the
> standard UNIX way better can ignore them and go about their business
> unaffected.
>
> But when these monolithic systems creep into almost every distribution,
> including Debian and Ubuntu, then it is not someone we can ignore, even if
> we want to.  It is being shoved down our throats.
>
> Linus Torvalds had to stop accepting patches from the systemd maintainer,
> and shout at him, because back in April because of this very monolithic
> mindset.
>
> I hope that sanity finds its way eventually, and we don't end up with
> systemd being the only choice, with many things depending on it ...
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 8:25 PM, unsolicited <unsolicited at swiz.ca> wrote:
>
>> That's disturbing.
>>
>> Guess my bubble that *nix is *nix burst with CentOS vs Debian. Got worse
>> with OpenSuSe. I like the phrase in the article ... "It’s a UNIX system! I
>> know this!." Not so much, it turns out. One of the reasons I got so very
>> tired of Windows was the moving target. Stop making me relearn what I
>> already know, and let me get on with my day. I know how to use the hammer,
>> let me get on with doing something useful with it. Stop handing me a
>> different hammer.
>>
>> The recent thread here of "Switching Jobs from Debian Shop to RHEL?" just
>> re-demonstrates all of this.
>>
>> The deal breaker for me is su vs sudo. sudo assumes there is more than one
>> admin per machine, and allows the logging / tracking based on that userid.
>> su takes that away, and forces the sharing / common root password across
>> the organization. <sad>
>>
>> Not to start a flamewar here.
>>
>>
>> On 14-07-17 05:51 PM, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
>>
>>> If you are like me, and watching the creeping up of systemd (e.g. Debian
>>> voting for it, and Ubuntu following), and dreading it ...
>>>
>>> Here is an article why systemd is a concern, and the FLOS (one S!)
>>> philosophy behind it ...
>>>
>>> http://pappp.net/?p=969
>>>
>>
>>
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