[kwlug-disc] Posting without subscribing to the KWLUG-Help list

Insurance Squared Inc. gcooke at insurancesquared.com
Wed Jun 2 07:27:55 EDT 2010

I'm a bit late to the party, but two comments:
- do I have to post to the help list now? :)
- there's no way newb's are going to sign up to a mailman list.  They'll 
got to a forum.
Mailman lists are a dead and closed system to newbs.

If you want provide help to newbs, put it online not through a mailing 
list.  I've noted my mostly dead site www.linuxexpert.ca before, if the 
list wants me to give them that domain, no probl.  Or I'll show the web 
folks how to set up a version of wordpress with the same functionality 
on the lug site.

On 02/06/10 02:01 AM, unsolicited wrote:
> I subscribed digest wise, so haven't yet seen Paul's message.
> Bob Jonkman wrote, On 06/02/2010 12:13 AM:
>> (Posting to this list instead of the other because I'm not asking or 
>> answering a Linux question.  Meta-questions on kwlug-help are taboo, 
>> right?)
>> Paul Nijjar wrote about the kwlug-help list:
>>> you need to subscribe to
>>> the list before posting. (Maybe we should change that policy?)
> I would suggest not. If kwlug help is about linux help, and we all 
> know there is a line between new computer user help, and computer 
> comfortable new linux user help, and ultimately the line will be 
> somewhere in between, it seems reasonable that a minimum acid test of 
> entry be that you are able to read and follow simple directions to 
> subscribe. And that you don't use anonymity to 'spam' the list.
>> If the intent is to encourage the newest Linux users, those who might 
>> not have cottoned on to the protocol and etiquette of mailing lists, 
>> then posting should be allowed from unsubscribed users.
> I doubt that this will be a problem. We've all been there, we've all 
> learned over time. We've all burned ourselves with mistakes, been 
> tolerated, gotten better, and in turn helped others. Along the way, 
> most of us have a fairly high tolerance for 'poor' behaviour, and 
> watching continuous improvement occur. Actually, usually, the worst 
> offenders soon feel unwelcome, and leave on their own.
> As we have seen, lists are largely able to moderate behaviour among 
> themselves, by themselves. Moderated or not, lists have always had the 
> ability to kick off the list (unsubscribe) truly inappropriate 
> behaviour of significant and long standing behaviour.
>> Posting is moderated, so unwanted messages will never make it to the 
>> list.  Perhaps only unsubscribed members need to be moderated; 
>> perhaps subscribed members could post freely.
> Chris makes good points about how do unsubscribed members get 
> responses. I suggest this be left alone. To post, subscribe.
> Let's keep the moderator load as low as possible, particularly if the 
> list becomes astonishingly popular.
> The moderator cannot be, or become, the behaviour or censorship police 
> - the list will deal with that under its own steam. (I can only 
> imagine the process of - sorry, your post doesn't meet our standards - 
> and dealing with that.) I can see the moderator saying: Sorry, I see 
> no question here. But that's about it.
> I can see people being moderated for, say, their first 5 posts. 
> Tracking that would likely be irritating.
> Unfortunately, unlike a forum, no moderator can just say - closing 
> thread.
> Perhaps allow free subscription and no moderation, much like 
> kwlug-disc and let the list police itself.
> After all, inappropriate posts will just be ignored. And truly 
> intolerable behaviour will simply be followed with unsubscription. 
> Even kwlug-disc maintains that ability.
> I have no reason to believe it's ever been used.
> There have been times when I might wish it had been, but the simple 
> solution to that is to add the poster to my 'auto mark read', or kill 
> list.
> Presumably, ultimately, an expected side effect of -help membership is 
> joining kwlug-disc. You can deal with problem people there, with 
> moderation, but the group itself is going to have to deal with them 
> unmoderated, when they join kwlug-disc.
> P.S. If a kwlug-disc moderator ever has to take action not obvious to 
> the list, e.g. unsubscribing someone, I would hope the moderated 
> action would be reported to the list.
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