[kwlug-disc] Posting without subscribing to the KWLUG-Help list

unsolicited unsolicited at swiz.ca
Wed Jun 2 02:01:52 EDT 2010


I subscribed digest wise, so haven't yet seen Paul's message.

Bob Jonkman wrote, On 06/02/2010 12:13 AM:
> (Posting to this list instead of the other because I'm not asking or 
> answering a Linux question.  Meta-questions on kwlug-help are taboo, 
> right?)
> 
> Paul Nijjar wrote about the kwlug-help list:
> 
>> you need to subscribe to
>> the list before posting. (Maybe we should change that policy?)

I would suggest not. If kwlug help is about linux help, and we all 
know there is a line between new computer user help, and computer 
comfortable new linux user help, and ultimately the line will be 
somewhere in between, it seems reasonable that a minimum acid test of 
entry be that you are able to read and follow simple directions to 
subscribe. And that you don't use anonymity to 'spam' the list.

> If the intent is to encourage the newest Linux users, those who might 
> not have cottoned on to the protocol and etiquette of mailing lists, 
> then posting should be allowed from unsubscribed users.

I doubt that this will be a problem. We've all been there, we've all 
learned over time. We've all burned ourselves with mistakes, been 
tolerated, gotten better, and in turn helped others. Along the way, 
most of us have a fairly high tolerance for 'poor' behaviour, and 
watching continuous improvement occur. Actually, usually, the worst 
offenders soon feel unwelcome, and leave on their own.

As we have seen, lists are largely able to moderate behaviour among 
themselves, by themselves. Moderated or not, lists have always had the 
ability to kick off the list (unsubscribe) truly inappropriate 
behaviour of significant and long standing behaviour.

> Posting is moderated, so unwanted messages will never make it to the 
> list.  Perhaps only unsubscribed members need to be moderated; perhaps 
> subscribed members could post freely.

Chris makes good points about how do unsubscribed members get 
responses. I suggest this be left alone. To post, subscribe.

Let's keep the moderator load as low as possible, particularly if the 
list becomes astonishingly popular.

The moderator cannot be, or become, the behaviour or censorship police 
- the list will deal with that under its own steam. (I can only 
imagine the process of - sorry, your post doesn't meet our standards - 
and dealing with that.) I can see the moderator saying: Sorry, I see 
no question here. But that's about it.

I can see people being moderated for, say, their first 5 posts. 
Tracking that would likely be irritating.

Unfortunately, unlike a forum, no moderator can just say - closing thread.

Perhaps allow free subscription and no moderation, much like 
kwlug-disc and let the list police itself.

After all, inappropriate posts will just be ignored. And truly 
intolerable behaviour will simply be followed with unsubscription. 
Even kwlug-disc maintains that ability.

I have no reason to believe it's ever been used.

There have been times when I might wish it had been, but the simple 
solution to that is to add the poster to my 'auto mark read', or kill 
list.

Presumably, ultimately, an expected side effect of -help membership is 
joining kwlug-disc. You can deal with problem people there, with 
moderation, but the group itself is going to have to deal with them 
unmoderated, when they join kwlug-disc.

P.S. If a kwlug-disc moderator ever has to take action not obvious to 
the list, e.g. unsubscribing someone, I would hope the moderated 
action would be reported to the list.



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