[kwlug-disc] What would people like to do, under the auspices of kwlug?

unsolicited unsolicited at swiz.ca
Sat Dec 26 00:21:49 EST 2009

Richard Weait wrote, On 12/25/2009 5:11 PM:
> On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 5:55 PM, unsolicited <unsolicited at swiz.ca> wrote:
>> Let me try approaching some of the recent list threads from a different
>> direction.
>> There are things I would be interested in seeing happen.
> 1) Start them.
> 2) Talk about them.
> 3) Provide a way for others to participate even if it is only an email
> thread, wiki or something.
> I <thunk> you are on to something.   ;-)

I long ago lost faith in 'build it and they will come.'

If the effort is larger than I, then I'm not prepared to 'build it and 
see if they come'. Put another way, if I have an idea, I'd like 
(multiple) 3rd party confirmation that what I'm thinking has resonance 
with others sufficient well to have a subset of kwlug say "Let's build 
this together - we collectively believe it to be worthwhile, and we're 
committing to see it done." The collaboration inevitably producing a 
higher quality product, gone about in a more effective manner.

For 3 - I have no facilities. A wiki has to exist somewhere. I do not 
have a 'space' within which the collaborative effort can reside. 
Personal e-mail group lists get old really fast.

>> They are things that are too big for me to do on my own as an individual.
>> They are things that don't require the entirety of kwlug.
>> There seems to be no middle ground. There is no mechanism to group a subset
>> of the entire group around a common effort. er, kwlug contains a group of
>> likely interested individuals, some of whom might be interested in
>> collaborating in the accomplishment of a <thunk>.
> Like what?  Like start an awesome regional FLOSS conference with a
> couple of friends and a head full of dreams?  What mechanism is
> required?  Really.  1,2,3 as above.

I don't believe these compare. You started out with a level of 
sponsorship. Apples and oranges.

>> The <thunk>, in essence, would be accomplished in the name of, or under the
>> auspices of, kwlug.
> Why?  Is <thunk> not worthy of attention without some sort of
> supplemental authority?

Because it would be a kwlug (sub?) group effort. We did it, kwlug, as 
part of the community, for the community. Rah, rah, us, team. KWLUG!

Group pride, collaboration, commitment, contribution, coordination. 
Executed by members of kwlug as a group (sourced from kwlug), on 
behalf of kwlug, for the greater community.

Group spirit and pride.

Is that such a bad thing?

[I apologize if such is overused or comes across as excessively 'smarmy'.]

>> What might people like to see happen, under the auspices of kwlug?
>> Some examples might be, but I'm far more interested in what individuals
>> might be interested in doing:
>> - installfest
> Several folks from KWLUG have hosted installfests over time.  There
> were annual 'fests at UW/CSC, no?  A LUG is helpful but not required.

Yes, I know, I wasn't suggesting we hold one, given these. I wasn't 
proposing activities or suggestions to happen going forward, but 
trying to come up with examples.

>> - launch party
> Eric(?) did this.  The Fedora folks do launches at Seneca/York periodically.

See above.

We're not in Seneca/York. We're in K-W.

>> - workshops
> Lori and Rob have done this at OLF and elsewhere.

So, what, are you saying been there done that?

How about here, in K-W, under auspices of kwlug (the point of the 

I was soliciting suggestions for workshop topics. And wondering if 
people wanted to produce one.

>> - how to host a meeting
> Sorry, what?  As a meeting topic?  How "meta".

As someone else pointed out, I missed putting 'kwlug' before the word 
'meeting'. i.e. Not the generics of how to host a meeting but the 
specifics of how to host a kwlug meeting - addressing the kwlug 
unique/specific aspects. Again, these were intended to be examples, 
soliciting other's suggestions.

IIRC, this is already on the meeting topic queue or request, and I 
thought I saw something in the list on this not long ago.

>> - how to present
> KLWUG had a presentation on giving presentations in November 2004.
> What?  Want it again?  ;-)  We can do this.

Again, example attempt.

See above comment re: probably already in the queue.

Additionally missing words word pointed out to me here. I was thinking 
at time of writing impress, care and feeding of. Think of a gimp 
presentation, but for impress, I suppose. How to make a presentation, 
with impress? (Lesson planning?) Although, I suppose such things as 
pace, timing, etc. could be components.

>> - since multiple rooms at 1st are available, splitting the latter half of a
>> meeting into two parts between (advanced) presentation topic and <thunk>
> No.  Build your own <thunk>.  Don't dilute the KWLUG meetings.

By definition they already are.

People in back corners whispering among themselves not paying 
attention to the presentation for whatever reason (not interested, too 
advanced to follow, know the topic, something else on their mind), but 
still came for a Linux, kwlug, community night out. Substantially, the 
people draw them to attend, not the presentations.

This is no different than at Working Centre, when meetings were 
oriented on the same axis as the doors. On one side of the pillars, 
the chairs and presentation, the other the comfy sofas. Invariably, 
from my observation, the comfy sofas were always full. With people not 
paying attention. And that's perfectly legitimate. [Usually, they're 
pounding away on blackberries and 'quietly' chatting with each other.]

At the Huether, the nature of the space changed / prevented that. 
Either the klatching ceased happening (driven away), or intruded upon 
those trying to listen to the presentation.

kwlug is the people. If the time before and after the presentation is 
more communication/visiting/gossipping than 'learning', and not all 
presentations are for everyone, why not facilitate the klatching, 
going forward, as we had at the Working Centre. Why bore them to death 
when they're just waiting for the presentation to end so they can 
enjoy the after-presentation ambiance. Presuming they don't just up 
and leave.

All I'm pointing out is that not every topic is for every body. But 
everything surrounding the presentation is for every body. For no 
additional effort or cost, why not facilitate it?

>> - community project (do a website for a charitable organization?)
> No.  Volunteers make bad web sites.  The charity/non-profit will be
> better served by a professional.  Really.  Find interested
> professionals at Centre for Social Innovation in Toronto or similar.
> Their goal is to work with non-profits.


That is the charitable organization's call, not yours.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I am not saying it shouldn't be 
recommended. I am saying there could be many reasons why that's not 
suitable for them. The 'charity' could be a scout troop, or a high 
school group getting together for a "Christmas Chocolate Bar Charity 
Sale Website."

As I said, these were attempts to come up with sample ideas. I agree, 
this isn't a very good choice of a sample. How about, help such an 
organization set up an adjunct wiki. Or something.

>> - community project (a la FOSS / with a [subversion?] repository) -
>> contribute code somewhere or to something.
> Name one.  Join the existing project.  If no similar project exists,
> see 1,2,3 above.

See responses above.

kwlug community collaborative effort.

>> - I have no idea, I'm making this list up to solicit your ideas & thoughts.
> What is that thing when you are fishing in a small boat, but you
> aren't using the main engine?  What is that called again?  It's right
> on the tip of my tongue...  Ah! -->  http://ow.ly/PEJ5
>> It seems to me there is no mechanism or facilities to gather interested
>> members of kwlug into a smaller collaborative effort.
>> What would it take to create a kwlug egroupware site, or something, to
>> promote such collaborations?
> You'll spend $FOREVER messing with the settings in $GROUPWARE

So, stop naysaying, start facilitating, and put forth a better mechanism.

>> More importantly - what might people like to collaborate on?
> THIS is your problem.  On what do YOU want to spend your free time?
> Do it, then talk about it.  And see 1,2,3 above.


Guess I don't see it as a problem.

It's not about me. It's not about the individual.

It's about the group, it's about the community.

You're publicly ridiculing me for asking the group if it would like to 
do something as a group collaborative effort, and if so, what?

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