[kwlug-disc] Trust in Musk.. or go to NextCloud

Fri Nov 11 15:49:57 EST 2022

There's a problem with relying on Wikipedia as a source of truth on politically charged topics, which is that anyone can edit it. What happens in practice is that communities form around certain Wikipedia pages to protect that community's version of the truth, and revert edits that add information threatening to that community. This even happens with computer technology pages. This is one reason why I do not trust wikipedia.

The more Wikipedia gets used in the way that you describe, the more pressure there is to edit it for propaganda reasons. I liked Wikipedia more in the early days before it became toxic.

On Fri, Nov 11, 2022, at 1:31 PM, Eva B wrote:
> Hmmmm.... 
> I wonder if key words could trigger an encyclopedic database, something like wikipedia, not just for reference of community driven information, but to show leanings based on the content of the post. Maybe with AI.
> 
> On Fri., Nov. 11, 2022, 12:50 p.m. Chris Frey, <cdfrey at foursquare.net> wrote:
>> Well said.  I think the only point I'd add would be to this:
>> 
>> > There's been an unfortunate trend to increasing political polarization. In
>> > the extreme form, it's the idea that objective reality doesn't exist, there
>> > are no facts, only politicized opinions. This is being driven by people on
>> > the far left and the far right. It's not just right wing people who need to
>> > be fact checked. Extreme ideologies have been around for thousands of years,
>> > nothing new here. What seems to make it worse is the magnifying effect of
>> > social media like facebook and twitter. These are funded by advertising, so
>> > to increase ad revenues you use an algorithmic feed that increases engagement
>> > by preferentially showing people extremist content, because that content gets
>> > more clicks.
>> 
>> I'd love it if the "fact checking" was done by civilized free speech itself,
>> enabled by a new twitter rather than imposed by outside "authorities",
>> or even worse, advertiser interests.  Sometimes the authorities need
>> to be fact checked too.
>> 
>> - Chris
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 11:10:18AM -0500, Doug Moen wrote:
>> > I have a different view of "what's wrong with twitter". The problem isn't specifically and only "Musk", Twitter has been criticized for years.
>> > 
>> > There's been an unfortunate trend to increasing political polarization. In the extreme form, it's the idea that objective reality doesn't exist, there are no facts, only politicized opinions. This is being driven by people on the far left and the far right. It's not just right wing people who need to be fact checked. Extreme ideologies have been around for thousands of years, nothing new here. What seems to make it worse is the magnifying effect of social media like facebook and twitter. These are funded by advertising, so to increase ad revenues you use an algorithmic feed that increases engagement by preferentially showing people extremist content, because that content gets more clicks.
>> > 
>> > The factors that made old Twitter toxic are:
>> >  * It was a publically held company, and therefore motivated to grow user count and revenue by any means necessary, regardless of the social cost. Musk fixed that, Twitter is now privately held.
>> >  * It was 90% funded by advertising, therefore it needs an algorithmic feed of the most inflammatory comment in order to maximize engagement and clicks. Except you censor the content that the ad companies object to. Musk wants to reduce or eliminate the dependency on ad revenue. We'll see if he figures that out.
>> > 
>> > What does Musk think about algorithmic feeds? Mar 24: "Twitter algorithm should be open source". May 11: "Chronological tweets seem much better than what “the algorithm” suggests". These tweets are pre-acquisition. He's workshopped a lot of conflicting ideas recently, so we'll see.
>> > 
>> > His Oct 27 tweet, "Dear Twitter advertisers", says positive things. Although he's pandering to advertisers, and you can interpret the following multiple ways, so we'll see.
>> > > The reason I acquired Twitter is because it is important to the future of civilization to have a common digital town square where a wide range of beliefs can be debated in a healthy manner, without resorting to violence. There is currently great danger that social media will splinter into far right wing and far left wing echo chambers that generate more hate and divide our society.
>> > > 
>> > > In the relentless pursuit of clicks, much of traditional media has fueled and catered to these polarized extremes, as they believe that is what brings in the money, but, in doing so, the opportunity for dialogue is lost.
>> > > 
>> > > That is why I bought Twitter. I didn't do it because it would be easy. I didn't do it to make more money. I did it to try to help humanity, whom I love. And I do so with humility, recognizing that failure in pursuing this goal, despite our best efforts, is a real possibility.
>> > > 
>> > > That said, Twitter obviously cannot become a free-for-all hellscape, where anything can be said with no consequences! In addition to adhering to the laws of the land, our platform must be warm and welcoming to all, where you can choose your desired experience according to your preference, just as you can choose, for example, to see movies or play video games ranging from all ages to mature.
>> > 
>> >  Musk says that his actions may drive Twitter into bankruptcy. That sounds positive: one less toxic social media site? Whether or not that happens, Musk wants to burn Twitter to the ground and replace it with something "better", and it's not impossible that the new thing might be an improvement. Now we just need somebody to kill Facebook and the others.
>> > 
>> > Musk is an idealist who is motivated to make the world a better place. Eg, Tesla to move society away from fossil fuel consumption to address global warming, SpaceX to make humanity multi-planetary, removing an existential threat to our species. Money is just a means to these ends. His disinterest in money is made very clear by his treatment of Twitter, and half the criticism of his tenure as Twitter CEO is "but that's not how you run a business". He's also extremely driven, a terrible boss, manipulative, probably a narcissist. But as long as I don't have to work for him, there's a chance that his interventions might actually be a net positive for me. I can't know for sure, as only history will tell. I sure don't like everything he does, just some things.
>> > 
>> > Do I want to use Twitter now, after having deleted my account years ago? Nope. If I wanted to microblog, Mastodon is decentralized and open source, with no ads or algorithmic feeds forced on me. Mastodon is growing quickly right now, and that's another good thing that has arisen from Musk's twitter acquisition. Yay Elon!
>> > 
>> > On Thu, Nov 10, 2022, at 9:48 PM, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
>> > > A good summary of Twitter under Elon Musk, so far ... 
>> > > 
>> > > https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63593242
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