[kwlug-disc] linux distro for nontech windows user

[Doug Moen]

Hi Ron.

There are good reasons why the majority of distros and the majority of the desktop Linux community have rejected snaps in favour of flatpak. The issues are too complex to reduce to "it's not open source", but that's the language I used because I was in a hurry and I assumed that people would "know what I mean". The shorthand is that the snap ecosystem violates user freedoms that are important to the FOSS community.

Some of the issues with snap are described in this short essay from Linux Mint, about why they kicked Snap out of their distro: <https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/snap.html>

The client side snap code is open source, but the server side code is closed source, and that makes all the difference. The core of the problem is Canonical's centralized control over the snap ecosystem, which is essentially a play to enclose the FOSS commons in a walled-garden, and the loss of user freedom that results from this walled garden and from the ways that Canonical wields their power over the users and developers of snap applications.

Read the essay. It describes an important part of the snap problem.

Another issue is forced updates. Kinoite, by default, will notify you that there are available software updates, but it won't do automatic updates unless you explicitly configure this. Windows is different: it pushes forced updates whether you like it or not, and it might reboot your machine to force an update, regardless of what you are trying to do with your computer at the time. Part of my sales pitch for Kinoite, to a Windows user, is that there are no forced updates, and that automatic updates are an opt-in choice. Ubuntu has forced updates of snap packages, and I have seen multiple protestations on the internet from users who can't figure out how to turn these forced updates off. So Ubuntu is off the table as a suggested upgrade for non-tech people who are fleeing Windows, since Canonical imposes some of the same kinds of user hostile policies that Microsoft does.

My own personal experience with Snap as a developer is such that I won't allow Snap on any of my machines. When I was working on the Curv open source project, a contributor created a snap package for Curv. I tested it, and it didn't work on my machine due to a sandboxing problem. But Blender, another 3D modelling program, did work on my machine in snap form. The difference was in the sandboxing parameters. I asked the contributor to use the same sandboxing parameters for the Curv snap as was used by the Blender snap. The answer was: this is impossible, because Canonical would not accept the Curv snap with those parameters, and therefore it was impossible to distribute the snap. Only Canonical had the power to allow Curv to run correctly, and the Curv project did not have the same level of political power as the Blender project, so we were out of luck.

So my anti-snap stance is not because I am ignorant or being disingenous. If you like Ubuntu and you like snaps, that is fine, but please don't assume there is something wrong with people that feel differently.

Doug.

On Mon, Oct 20, 2025, at 7:48 PM, Ron wrote:
> This message isn't to take Doug to task, he's been very helpful, it's 
> just to explore some of the issues people claim to have with snaps...
>
>
> Doug Moen wrote on 2025-10-20 08:01:
>
>> I don't like snap because it isn't open source
>
> It's a SquashFS file and a YAML file with layout options. Those are open
> source.
>
> https://snapcraft.io/docs/the-snap-format
>
>
>
> Or did you want the web app open source too?
>
> I doubt 99% of anti-snap people would ever stand up a web site for
> snaps, so I find this "not open source" a bit disingenuous. Are they 
> setting up local flatpak or deb repos?
>
> No one that I know has ever created a deb repository locally (that I'm 
> aware of). Looks like a pain but not too bad:
>
> https://linuxconfig.org/easy-way-to-create-a-debian-package-and-local-package-repository
>
>
>
>> and Ubuntu takes away user control that you get with flatpak,
>
> Can you elaborate on this? I haven't used flatpaks so I have no idea
> what user control I'm missing when I have a couple snaps installed.
>
>
>> and that lack of control was creating issues for me. I switched from 
>> Ubuntu to Mint to get away from Snap.
> Sounds like your distaste for *optional* snaps led you to a distro where 
> things break and require a full system reinstall, when snaps likely 
> could have prevented the whole mess in the first place.
>
>
> I have had at least one issue with snaps - clicking a mailto link in 
> Firefox didn't properly open a compose window in Thunderbird when (both? 
> or just Thunderbird?) were snaps.
>
> That was due to isolation that is *optionally* provided by snaps and 
> Mozilla chose the strong isolation, which broke this feature.
>
>
>
>
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