[kwlug-disc] linux distro for nontech windows user

[Doug Moen]

> Fedora "atomic" has the same workflow as Mint, ie. backup and
    fresh install.  Just that, Fedora does it for you using BTRFS
    snapshot features, whereas you have to it manually in Mint.

The atomic editions of Fedora do not use BTRFS snapshot features, but I think the older "mutable" editions do. You aren't required to do a backup, and there is no fresh install. Very different from Mint. The atomic editions use OSTree, which, under the covers, implements a git-like version control database for core OS packages, and which supports transactional atomic update and rollback for operating system upgrades. The file system organization is different from traditional Linux. The operating system is installed into the root file system, which is read-only. Your apps and your personal data are stored in a different, writable file system, and are not affected by the upgrade process.

In Fedora Kinoite (atomic KDE), you get a desktop notification when a new release is available. To install it, you use "Plasma Discover", which is the GUI app store and software manager. This will install the new operating system components into the root file system, without touching any of the existing components. Your system behaves normally while the upgrade is being downloaded. It's like adding a new commit to a git repo: all of the old commits are still in the repo. If the process of downloading the upgrade fails, your system is safe. The system doesn't switch over to the new release until you reboot, when it will atomically switch over to the new release. Internally, the atomic switchover doesn't require moving or copying files, it's just a single file that changes to point to the new release. If the new release has problems, you can roll back to the previous release, either in the boot menu, or in the GUI app store.

By contrast, the mintupgrade tool is launched from the CLI, not the GUI, and performs an in-place upgrade, which can take several hours. "During the upgrade the font rendering will break and your fonts will become unreadable. The upgrade tool is protected against this issue and is not impacted. Do not interrupt the upgrade. Do not close the terminal attached to it." If you lose power or internet connection, your system is hosed. Not a great user experience, not something I'd recommend to my friends.

I didn't like Fedora Workstation when I tried it, either. However, Kinoite has a radically different core design from the Fedora that I tried, and Kinoite seems to have a safer and more user friendly upgrade process than anything I've experienced before in Linux. It reminds me more of MacOS than Linux. I am willing to try it out and see if my experience is more positive than the last time.

My friends won't need this or even know about it, but I can use rpm-ostree in the shell to install regular RPM packages into the version-controlled core OS file system. And I can revert my changes to get back to a clean state. (Getting back to a clean state in Mint, per official documentation, requires backing up personal files and doing a fresh install, overwriting the existing disk partitions.) It seems I won't need to use rpm-ostree for most of the software I install. There is also "toolbox" for installing packages into containers outside of the core OS, which my friends also will not need. They will just use the GUI app store.

With Kinoite, I can "rebase" to a different atomic desktop environment, like atomic Sway or atomic Cosmic, in order to try it out, without affecting any of the files in my main (KDE) desktop. It's like switching to a different branch in git. The KDE branch is still there and is unaffected by the Sway branch. You have to reboot into the branch. My friends won't need this, but it's interesting to me.

On Fri, Oct 17, 2025, at 1:10 AM, William Park via kwlug-disc wrote:
> - I'd recommend *Mint* or *Xubuntu*.  Both are Ubuntu family, so they can ask questions or find answer online.
> 
> - If your friends use LibreOffice, Thunderbird, Firefox, Gimp, then it doesn't matter which distro.  Also, all distros have torrent client, media player, etc.
> 
> - Fedora "atomic" has the same workflow as Mint, ie. backup and fresh install.  Just that, Fedora does it for you using BTRFS snapshot features, whereas you have to it manually in Mint.  But, Fedora rubs me the wrong way, I don't know why.
> 
> - Mint has better hardware support than Ubuntu.  If wifi doesn't work in Ubuntu, then it's dead end.
> 
> - Xubuntu is simple enough to run major applications, yet still has modern GUI desktop feel.
> 
> 
> On 2025-10-16 17:02, Doug Moen wrote:
>> I have non-technical friends who are considering moving from Windows to Linux due to Microsoft shenanigans. They don’t want to become Linux nerds like me; they don’t want to learn how to install Linux and fix it every time it breaks on upgrade. I guess what they need is a distro that “just works” (if that even exists), or at least the one that is least frustrating and broken, plus a tech person to fix it when it does break. I know that their current computer runs Windows 10, but is old enough that it isn’t supported by Windows 11.
>> 
>> What's a good Linux distro? One of their acquaintances suggested Zorin, which I know nothing about, but which is marketed as being very Windows-like and suitable for non-techies. I know that computer recycling installs Mint, which I currently use as well. And I see that the Kwartzlab Windows-deinstall event is installing Fedora, although there are many spins and editions and the announcement doesn’t say which one.
>> 
>> I am hesitant to recommend Mint, since the recommended upgrade process, needed every year or two, is to back up all data and reinstall from scratch, then reinstall all your apps. This procedure is too onerous. And I had a lot of breakage when I tried to do an in-place major version upgrade.
>> 
>> Zorin is based on Ubuntu LTS, as Mint is, so I don't see why the upgrade process would be any easier or more reliable.
>> 
>> I tried Fedora Workstation with Gnome for 6 months and hated it. Part of it was Gnome, and based on that experience I won’t recommend Gnome to someone who is used to Windows. Fedora now supports KDE as a "flagship" edition, rather than just a "spin", and KDE looks more Windows-like out of the box, so that might be an option. I hate the bugginess and unreliability of desktop linux, so I'll choose "flagship" over "spin" for that reason alone.
>> 
>> Part of my problem with Fedora was dealing with my environment breaking every 6 months on upgrade. One motivation for switching to Mint was that I could defer upgrades for a few years, meaning fewer occurrences of "upgrade week".
>> 
>> My GrapheneOS phone auto-updates to a major new release of Android and I don't even notice. It would be nice if something similar existed for desktop Linux.
>> 
>> Fedora has "atomic" editions, which I know virtually nothing about. But it is claimed that these editions solve the upgrade problem. The Fedora "Kinoite" edition is atomic KDE. Based on just what I wrote so far, that might be the best option for an upgrade from Windows. But I have no experience with atomic Fedora.
>> 
>> The caveat is that when you install an app on a Fedora atomic edition, you are getting a flatpak. My experience with flatpaks is that every flatpak I have tried to install so far has been broken due to the sandboxing mechanism. So I just avoid them. Maybe all the problems with flatpaks have been solved in 2025? I'm skeptical, but my friends only need a few very popular apps, primarily just a web browser and Libre Office, and those flatpaks are probably better tested than the more obscure flatpaks I wanted to run, so this approach might work for them.
>> 
>> What do other people recommend as a Linux distro for non-tech Windows users? Any comment on my theory that Fedora Kinoite might be a good choice for my friends?
>> 
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