From jdriezen at sympatico.ca  Wed Jan  1 00:42:19 2025
From: jdriezen at sympatico.ca (John Driezen)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2025 00:42:19 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Regular Expression to Match Movie Titles and
 Year and Ignore the rest.
In-Reply-To: <97f7403f-4708-4b22-bd69-85012ea7fda1@ronaldbarnes.ca>
References: <f46a97d6-9604-45d3-8534-0dad61b57081@sympatico.ca>
 <257db646-ef8b-46bd-882d-edeb05358197@sympatico.ca>
 <97f7403f-4708-4b22-bd69-85012ea7fda1@ronaldbarnes.ca>
Message-ID: <3caf5671-c033-43d4-9687-d16891d0cbab@sympatico.ca>


On 2024-12-31 11:36 p.m., Ronald Barnes via kwlug-disc wrote:
> John Driezen wrote on 2024-12-31 15:29:
>
>> This program gives the following error messages when run.
>
> Which version of Python?
>
Python 3.12.3

> I ran it through 3.10 and got nothing like that.
>
>
> > Suggestions and improvements welcome.
>
> Try this:
>
> import os
> import re
> with os.scandir() as i:
> ? for entry in i:
> ??? if entry.is_file():
> ????? ## Use named groups for easy use of captured data:
> ????? ## Also, put it all in one regex for easy positional grabbing of
> ????? ## elements:
> ????? ## Finally, wrapped for legibility in email, etc.:
> ????? info = re.search(
> ??????? "^"
> ??????? + "(?P<title>.*)"
> ??????? + "\.(?P<year>\d{4})\."
> ??????? + "(?P<res>\d+p)"
> ??????? + ".*\.(?P<ext>.*)"
> ??????? + "$",
> ??????? entry.name)
> ????? print( f"title: {info.group('title')}")
> ????? print( f"year: {info.group('year')}")
> ????? print( f"resolution: {info.group('res')}")
> ????? print( f"extension: {info.group('ext')}")
>
>
> Output:
>
> title: Zero.Dark.Thirty
> year: 2012
> resolution: 720p
> extension: mp4
>
Thank you.? I will try that code.


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Jan  1 03:52:00 2025
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2025 03:52:00 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Regular Expression to Match Movie Titles and Year
 and Ignore the rest.
In-Reply-To: <005ece1f-9092-4297-a653-29d8fb4c8da4@sympatico.ca>
References: <005ece1f-9092-4297-a653-29d8fb4c8da4@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <dfdaa852-e3cc-4d8f-95f8-215ff1f940d1@yahoo.ca>

 From the top of my head,
 ??? - cut the string on ".2012.720p."
 ??? - change "Zero.Dark.Thirty" to "Zero Dark Thirty "
 ??? - change ".2012.720p." to "(2012-720p)"
 ??? - change "BrRip.x264.BOKUTOX.YIFY.mp4" to ".mp4"

Or,
 ??? - cut the string on "." (period)
 ??? - loop through the substrings, and search for "2012" and/or "720p"
 ??? - reassemble parts
-- 
William


On 2024-12-31 11:22, John Driezen wrote:
> Can anyone give me a regular expression to turn the following filename
>
> ?"Zero.Dark.Thirty.2012.720p.BrRip.x264.BOKUTOX.YIFY.mp4"
>
> into
>
> "Zero Dark Thirty (2012)-720p.mp4"
>
> 201[0-9] matches the year
>
> How do I match the title before the year, and ignore everything after 
> the ".720p"?
>
> John Driezen
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
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From jdriezen at sympatico.ca  Wed Jan  1 04:25:23 2025
From: jdriezen at sympatico.ca (John Driezen)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2025 04:25:23 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Regular Expression to Match Movie Titles and
 Year and Ignore the rest.
In-Reply-To: <3caf5671-c033-43d4-9687-d16891d0cbab@sympatico.ca>
References: <f46a97d6-9604-45d3-8534-0dad61b57081@sympatico.ca>
 <257db646-ef8b-46bd-882d-edeb05358197@sympatico.ca>
 <97f7403f-4708-4b22-bd69-85012ea7fda1@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <3caf5671-c033-43d4-9687-d16891d0cbab@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <6a349331-5e9b-42d6-8671-62806fbb8b5f@sympatico.ca>

OK.? I managed to get a working python script to accomplish the intended 
task.? Here it is:

import os
import re

LOGFILE = "/home/john/logs/rename.log"
logfile = open(LOGFILE, 'w')

with os.scandir() as i:
 ??? for entry in i:
 ??????? if entry.is_file():
 ??????????? ## Use named groups for easy use of captured data:
 ??????????? ## Also, put it all in one regex for easy positional 
grabbing of
 ??????????? ## elements:
 ??????????? ## Finally, wrapped for legibility in email, etc.:
 ??????????? oldfile = entry.name
 ??????????? print(oldfile)
 ??????????? info = re.search(
 ??????????????? "^"
 ??????????????? + "(?P<title>.*)"???? ? ? ?? ????? # capture movie title
 ??????????????? + "\.(?P<year>\d{4})\."????? # capture year
 ??????????????? + "(?P<res>\d+p)"?????? ?? ??? # capture resolution
 ??????????????? + ".*\.(?P<ext>.*)"????????????? # capture filename 
extension
 ??????????????? + "$",
 ??????????????? oldfile)
 ??????????? title = info.group('title')
 ??????????? movietitle = title.replace('.', ' ') # convert periods to 
spaces
 ??????????? year = info.group('year')
 ??????????? resolution = info.group('res')
 ??????????? ext = info.group('ext')
 ??????????? if (movietitle and year and resolution and ext): # do not 
write new filename if any values are None
 ??????????????? newfile = movietitle+" ("+year+")-"+resolution+"."+ext
 ??????????????? print (newfile)
 ??????????????? #os.rename(oldfile, newfile)??? # rename movie file
 ??????????????? #os.chmod(newfile , 0o644)????? # set permissions on 
movie file
 ??????????????? log_message = oldfile + " renamed as " + newfile + "\n"
 ??????????????? print (log_message)
 ??????????????? logfile.write(log_message)

logfile.close()

Thank you to all for suggestions.


On 2025-01-01 12:42 a.m., John Driezen wrote:
>
> On 2024-12-31 11:36 p.m., Ronald Barnes via kwlug-disc wrote:
>> John Driezen wrote on 2024-12-31 15:29:
>>
>>> This program gives the following error messages when run.
>>
>> Which version of Python?
>>
> Python 3.12.3
>
>> I ran it through 3.10 and got nothing like that.
>>
>>
>> > Suggestions and improvements welcome.
>>
>> Try this:
>>
>> import os
>> import re
>> with os.scandir() as i:
>> ? for entry in i:
>> ??? if entry.is_file():
>> ????? ## Use named groups for easy use of captured data:
>> ????? ## Also, put it all in one regex for easy positional grabbing of
>> ????? ## elements:
>> ????? ## Finally, wrapped for legibility in email, etc.:
>> ????? info = re.search(
>> ??????? "^"
>> ??????? + "(?P<title>.*)"
>> ??????? + "\.(?P<year>\d{4})\."
>> ??????? + "(?P<res>\d+p)"
>> ??????? + ".*\.(?P<ext>.*)"
>> ??????? + "$",
>> ??????? entry.name)
>> ????? print( f"title: {info.group('title')}")
>> ????? print( f"year: {info.group('year')}")
>> ????? print( f"resolution: {info.group('res')}")
>> ????? print( f"extension: {info.group('ext')}")
>>
>>
>> Output:
>>
>> title: Zero.Dark.Thirty
>> year: 2012
>> resolution: 720p
>> extension: mp4
>>
> Thank you.? I will try that code.
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.


From ron at ronaldbarnes.ca  Wed Jan  1 07:40:05 2025
From: ron at ronaldbarnes.ca (Ronald Barnes)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2025 04:40:05 -0800
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Regular Expression to Match Movie Titles and
 Year and Ignore the rest.
In-Reply-To: <6a349331-5e9b-42d6-8671-62806fbb8b5f@sympatico.ca>
References: <f46a97d6-9604-45d3-8534-0dad61b57081@sympatico.ca>
 <257db646-ef8b-46bd-882d-edeb05358197@sympatico.ca>
 <97f7403f-4708-4b22-bd69-85012ea7fda1@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <3caf5671-c033-43d4-9687-d16891d0cbab@sympatico.ca>
 <6a349331-5e9b-42d6-8671-62806fbb8b5f@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <62f192c9-1a52-40c8-8e96-f7c65656f660@ronaldbarnes.ca>

John Driezen wrote on 2025-01-01 01:25:

> newfile = movietitle+" ("+year+")-"+resolution+"."+ext

You may be easier for legibility / maintenance to use "f-strings" for 
this formatting & concatenating, ? la:

 > newfile = f"{movietitle} ({year})-{resolution}.{ext}"



Just a thought...



From jason.eckert at gmail.com  Wed Jan  1 09:23:07 2025
From: jason.eckert at gmail.com (Jason Eckert)
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2025 09:23:07 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Regular Expression to Match Movie Titles and
 Year and Ignore the rest.
In-Reply-To: <62f192c9-1a52-40c8-8e96-f7c65656f660@ronaldbarnes.ca>
References: <f46a97d6-9604-45d3-8534-0dad61b57081@sympatico.ca>
 <257db646-ef8b-46bd-882d-edeb05358197@sympatico.ca>
 <97f7403f-4708-4b22-bd69-85012ea7fda1@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <3caf5671-c033-43d4-9687-d16891d0cbab@sympatico.ca>
 <6a349331-5e9b-42d6-8671-62806fbb8b5f@sympatico.ca>
 <62f192c9-1a52-40c8-8e96-f7c65656f660@ronaldbarnes.ca>
Message-ID: <CAG+C2Af+Si6HxhoTc2eVKLNe4OUu9ehTGTCmJZ+DubEVm7LWHA@mail.gmail.com>

If you're using Python, you could just use regular expressions to provide
for the new filename.
For example,

pattern =
r"^([A-Za-z0-9]+(?:\.[A-Za-z0-9]+)*)\.(\d{4})\..*?(\d+p)\..*\.mp4$"
replacement = r"\1 \2-\3.mp4"

You'd have to import re and os, of course - but then you could use a for
loop to process each file.
For example (keeping it just to mp4s for simplicity):

def rename_movie_files(file_list):
    for filename in file_list:
        if re.match(pattern, filename):
            new_filename = re.sub(pattern, replacement, filename)
            os.rename(filename, new_filename)

movie_files = [
    "Zero.Dark.Thirty.2012.720p.BrRip.x264.BOKUTOX.YIFY.mp4",
    "The.Dark.Knight.2008.1080p.BluRay.x264.YIFY.mp4",
    "Inception.2010.720p.BluRay.x264.YIFY.mp4"
]

rename_movie_files(movie_files)

On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 at 07:42, Ronald Barnes via kwlug-disc <
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:

> John Driezen wrote on 2025-01-01 01:25:
>
> > newfile = movietitle+" ("+year+")-"+resolution+"."+ext
>
> You may be easier for legibility / maintenance to use "f-strings" for
> this formatting & concatenating, ? la:
>
>  > newfile = f"{movietitle} ({year})-{resolution}.{ext}"
>
>
>
> Just a thought...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Thu Jan  2 01:59:30 2025
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2025 01:59:30 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Regular Expression to Match Movie Titles and Year
 and Ignore the rest.
In-Reply-To: <dfdaa852-e3cc-4d8f-95f8-215ff1f940d1@yahoo.ca>
References: <005ece1f-9092-4297-a653-29d8fb4c8da4@sympatico.ca>
 <dfdaa852-e3cc-4d8f-95f8-215ff1f940d1@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <55942480-3306-4a89-810d-ecef06ba8aac@yahoo.ca>

Second method is easier.

    echo"Zero.Dark.Thirty.2012.720p.BrRip.x264.BOKUTOX.YIFY.mp4"| while
    IFS=. read -a x; do
    y=
    skip=0
    fori in"${x[@]}";do
    case$iin
     ???????????201[0-9])y+="($i)";;
    [0-9]*p)y+="-$i";skip=1;;
     ???????????mp4)y+=".$i";;
     ???????????*)if [[skip-eq0]]; theny+="${y:+}$i"; fi ;;
    esac
    done
    echo"y={$y}"
    done

-- 

On 2025-01-01 03:52, William Park via kwlug-disc wrote:
> From the top of my head,
> ??? - cut the string on ".2012.720p."
> ??? - change "Zero.Dark.Thirty" to "Zero Dark Thirty "
> ??? - change ".2012.720p." to "(2012-720p)"
> ??? - change "BrRip.x264.BOKUTOX.YIFY.mp4" to ".mp4"
>
> Or,
> ??? - cut the string on "." (period)
> ??? - loop through the substrings, and search for "2012" and/or "720p"
> ??? - reassemble parts
> -- 
> William
>
>
> On 2024-12-31 11:22, John Driezen wrote:
>> Can anyone give me a regular expression to turn the following filename
>>
>> ?"Zero.Dark.Thirty.2012.720p.BrRip.x264.BOKUTOX.YIFY.mp4"
>>
>> into
>>
>> "Zero Dark Thirty (2012)-720p.mp4"
>>
>> 201[0-9] matches the year
>>
>> How do I match the title before the year, and ignore everything after 
>> the ".720p"?
>>
>> John Driezen
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
>> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
>> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email tokwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
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From zodman at gmail.com  Fri Jan  3 14:47:57 2025
From: zodman at gmail.com (Andres Vargas)
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2025 14:47:57 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Regular Expression to Match Movie Titles and Year
 and Ignore the rest.
In-Reply-To: <55942480-3306-4a89-810d-ecef06ba8aac@yahoo.ca>
References: <005ece1f-9092-4297-a653-29d8fb4c8da4@sympatico.ca>
 <dfdaa852-e3cc-4d8f-95f8-215ff1f940d1@yahoo.ca>
 <55942480-3306-4a89-810d-ecef06ba8aac@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <CAA5PPhmqjf80oGBh0g89-6VVjy-PmTXCVspgikdx4P3vs+UoKw@mail.gmail.com>

dont overthink.
https://pypi.org/project/guessit/

$ guessit "Treme.1x03.Right.Place,.Wrong.Time.HDTV.XviD-NoTV.avi"
For: Treme.1x03.Right.Place,.Wrong.Time.HDTV.XviD-NoTV.avi
GuessIt found: {
    "title": "Treme",
    "season": 1,
    "episode": 3,
    "episode_title": "Right Place, Wrong Time",
    "source": "HDTV",
    "video_codec": "Xvid",
    "release_group": "NoTV",
    "container": "avi",
    "mimetype": "video/x-msvideo",
    "type": "episode"
}


On Thu, Jan 2, 2025 at 2:02?AM William Park via kwlug-disc <
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:

> Second method is easier.
>
> echo "Zero.Dark.Thirty.2012.720p.BrRip.x264.BOKUTOX.YIFY.mp4" | while IFS=.
> read -a x; do
>    y=
>    skip=0
>    for i in "${x[@]}"; do
>        case $i in
>            201[0-9]) y+=" ($i)" ;;
>            [0-9]*p) y+="-$i" ; skip=1 ;;
>            mp4) y+=".$i" ;;
>            *) if [[ skip -eq 0 ]]; then y+="${y:+ }$i"; fi ;;
>        esac
>    done
>    echo "y={$y}"
> done
>
> --
>
> On 2025-01-01 03:52, William Park via kwlug-disc wrote:
>
> From the top of my head,
>     - cut the string on ".2012.720p."
>     - change "Zero.Dark.Thirty" to "Zero Dark Thirty "
>     - change ".2012.720p." to "(2012-720p)"
>     - change "BrRip.x264.BOKUTOX.YIFY.mp4" to ".mp4"
>
> Or,
>     - cut the string on "." (period)
>     - loop through the substrings, and search for "2012" and/or "720p"
>     - reassemble parts
> --
> William
>
>
> On 2024-12-31 11:22, John Driezen wrote:
>
> Can anyone give me a regular expression to turn the following filename
>
>  "Zero.Dark.Thirty.2012.720p.BrRip.x264.BOKUTOX.YIFY.mp4"
>
> into
>
> "Zero Dark Thirty (2012)-720p.mp4"
>
> 201[0-9] matches the year
>
> How do I match the title before the year, and ignore everything after the
> ".720p"?
>
> John Driezen
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or emailkwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From jdriezen at sympatico.ca  Sun Jan  5 05:01:15 2025
From: jdriezen at sympatico.ca (John Driezen)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2025 05:01:15 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Regular Expression to Match Movie Titles and Year
 and Ignore the rest.
In-Reply-To: <55942480-3306-4a89-810d-ecef06ba8aac@yahoo.ca>
References: <005ece1f-9092-4297-a653-29d8fb4c8da4@sympatico.ca>
 <dfdaa852-e3cc-4d8f-95f8-215ff1f940d1@yahoo.ca>
 <55942480-3306-4a89-810d-ecef06ba8aac@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <5840486d-c91f-4ff5-841c-5b40d0abebe5@sympatico.ca>

I ended up modifying William's bash script to support multiple file name 
arguments on the command line.

Here is the final program:

#
# Rename movie files
#
# Converts movie file names to a nice form expected by media servers 
like Emby, Jellyfin, Plex.

# Usage:? bash renamemoviefile.sh <file1> <file2> <file3>....

# Example Input: Zero.Dark.Thirty.2012.720p.BrRip.x264.BOKUTOX.YIFY.mp4
#
# Example Output: Zero Dark Thirty (2012)-720p.mp4
#
# Written by: William Park
#
# Modified by: John Driezen to accept multiple file name arguments.
#
# The mv command is commented out for safety.? Run a trial FIRST!

for moviefile in "$@"
do
 ??? echo $moviefile | while IFS=. read -a x; do
 ???????? y=
 ???????? skip=0
 ???????? for i in "${x[@]}"; do
 ??????????? case $i in
 ???????????????? 201[0-9]) y+=" ($i)" ;;
 ???????????????? [0-9]*p) y+="-$i" ; skip=1 ;;
 ???????????????? avi) y+=".$i" ;;
 ???????????????? mkv) y+=".$i" ;;
 ???????????????? mp4) y+=".$i" ;;
 ???????????????? srt) y+=".$i" ;;
 ???????????? ? ? webp) y+=".$i" ;;
 ?????????? ?? ?? *) if [[ skip -eq 0 ]]; then y+="${y:+ }$i"; fi ;;
 ???????? ? ? esac
 ???????? done
 ????? ?? echo "Renaming $moviefile as $y"
 ??? ?? ? #mv $moviefile "$y"
 ??? done
done

Thank you to all for suggestions and comments.

John Driezen

jdriezen at symaptico.ca



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sun Jan  5 18:32:48 2025
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2025 18:32:48 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Regular Expression to Match Movie Titles and Year
 and Ignore the rest.
In-Reply-To: <5840486d-c91f-4ff5-841c-5b40d0abebe5@sympatico.ca>
References: <005ece1f-9092-4297-a653-29d8fb4c8da4@sympatico.ca>
 <dfdaa852-e3cc-4d8f-95f8-215ff1f940d1@yahoo.ca>
 <55942480-3306-4a89-810d-ecef06ba8aac@yahoo.ca>
 <5840486d-c91f-4ff5-841c-5b40d0abebe5@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3d52e4ce-d840-4c84-9328-792e3df71aa5@yahoo.ca>


On 2025-01-05 05:01, John Driezen wrote:
> for moviefile in "$@"
> do

If reading from command arguments, then you can just do
     for moviefile; do

>  ??? echo $moviefile | while IFS=. read -a x; do

Better to quote the file, in case you have crazy filenames.
     echo "$moviefile" | ...

>  ???????? y=
>  ???????? skip=0
>  ???????? for i in "${x[@]}"; do
>  ??????????? case $i in
>  ???????????????? 201[0-9]) y+=" ($i)" ;;
>  ???????????????? [0-9]*p) y+="-$i" ; skip=1 ;;
>  ???????????????? avi) y+=".$i" ;;
>  ???????????????? mkv) y+=".$i" ;;
>  ???????????????? mp4) y+=".$i" ;;
>  ???????????????? srt) y+=".$i" ;;
>  ???????????? ? ? webp) y+=".$i" ;;

You can compact these 5 lines into one line.
     avi|mkv|mp4|srt|webp) y+=".$i" ;;

>  ?????????? ?? ?? *) if [[ skip -eq 0 ]]; then y+="${y:+ }$i"; fi ;;
>  ???????? ? ? esac
>  ???????? done
>  ????? ?? echo "Renaming $moviefile as $y"
>  ??? ?? ? #mv $moviefile "$y"
>  ??? done
> done



From mb at 3nsoft.com  Wed Jan  8 10:04:09 2025
From: mb at 3nsoft.com (Mikalai Birukou)
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2025 15:04:09 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Videos of January meeting
Message-ID: <f261f16e-58cd-4fb2-9b2a-c558f788ff23@3nsoft.com>

All videos are here: https://archive.org/details/kwlug_meeting_2025-01-06




From mail at andrewsullivancant.ca  Sun Jan 12 12:55:15 2025
From: mail at andrewsullivancant.ca (Andrew Sullivan Cant)
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2025 12:55:15 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] VLC had a booth at CES
Message-ID: <3c683b8a-fe1b-452d-bd36-23918443bc8f@andrewsullivancant.ca>

Not selling anything apparently, just showing off. :)

https://www.reddit.com/r/MadeMeSmile/comments/1hzjpy8/vlc_is_great/
https://x.com/videolan/status/1876818099476758748

Looks like Canonical/Ubuntu was there as well.
https://ubuntu.com/blog/canonical-at-ces-2025


Neat.

Andrew


From lukav at lukav.com  Mon Jan 13 13:34:02 2025
From: lukav at lukav.com (Anton Avramov)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 13:34:02 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Cheap disks for storage upgrade
Message-ID: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>

Hey Community,

I have zfs setup with 3 x 1T raidz and 2 x 2T mirror disks bringing the 
total capacity to 4T.

One of the 1T seams to be failing and needs to be replaces, so I tough 
it's time for upgrade.

Does any of you have recommendation there to get disks with lets say at 
least 6T capacity at reasonable price?

Maybe some refurbished? Could you share your experiences?

Thank you



From jasonpa at gmail.com  Mon Jan 13 13:45:51 2025
From: jasonpa at gmail.com (Jason)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 13:45:51 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Cheap disks for storage upgrade
In-Reply-To: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
References: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
Message-ID: <CAEnL8_dagu5n2ESwAfLKJ49FTdb9hS=OG5puaimJFjY5rGpK3w@mail.gmail.com>

I've got some 1-3 TB disks if you just need a replacement:
https://imgur.com/a/HFMxsWu
The 1TB I'm happy to give away, the 2-3TB ones I'd sell cheap.

If you are looking to create a new array to move your files onto, and want
to get larger capacity disks, I'd recommend drive shucking.

The Western Digital Easystore USB enclosures have white label WD Gold disks
- helium filled, usually firmware limited to 5400RPM.

I wrote an article a few years ago on how to get into them.  You can do it
with a credit card or a tool set from iFixIt.

https://www.linuxtek.ca/2022/05/17/how-to-extract-a-western-digital-hard-drive-from-an-easystore-usb-enclosure/

Feel free to reach out directly if you're interested in the disks I have,
or have any questions.

Cheers,
Jason



On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 1:37?PM Anton Avramov via kwlug-disc <
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:

> Hey Community,
>
> I have zfs setup with 3 x 1T raidz and 2 x 2T mirror disks bringing the
> total capacity to 4T.
>
> One of the 1T seams to be failing and needs to be replaces, so I tough
> it's time for upgrade.
>
> Does any of you have recommendation there to get disks with lets say at
> least 6T capacity at reasonable price?
>
> Maybe some refurbished? Could you share your experiences?
>
> Thank you
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From peter_melse at gto.net  Mon Jan 13 13:47:55 2025
From: peter_melse at gto.net (peter_melse at gto.net)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 13:47:55 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Cheap disks for storage upgrade
In-Reply-To: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
References: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
Message-ID: <0ea36a43c1fc9ea997bcce13d2179b9a@gto.net>

also consider the differences between SMR and CMR

On 2025-01-13 13:34, Anton Avramov via kwlug-disc wrote:
> Hey Community,
> 
> I have zfs setup with 3 x 1T raidz and 2 x 2T mirror disks bringing
> the total capacity to 4T.
> 
> One of the 1T seams to be failing and needs to be replaces, so I tough
> it's time for upgrade.
> 
> Does any of you have recommendation there to get disks with lets say
> at least 6T capacity at reasonable price?
> 
> Maybe some refurbished? Could you share your experiences?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.


From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Mon Jan 13 14:24:49 2025
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 14:24:49 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Cheap disks for storage upgrade
In-Reply-To: <0ea36a43c1fc9ea997bcce13d2179b9a@gto.net>
References: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
 <0ea36a43c1fc9ea997bcce13d2179b9a@gto.net>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOQKeAEoc-dugk4qU=Qqa1-zS6GxnZ_ZomAZ6r2QQxBopg@mail.gmail.com>

If you do decide to buy new, be sure to go to
https://www.backblaze.com/cloud-storage/resources/hard-drive-test-data
first for the BackBlaze annual reports to see which drives are the more
dependable.

On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 at 13:48, <peter_melse at gto.net> wrote:

> also consider the differences between SMR and CMR
>
> On 2025-01-13 13:34, Anton Avramov via kwlug-disc wrote:
> > Hey Community,
> >
> > I have zfs setup with 3 x 1T raidz and 2 x 2T mirror disks bringing
> > the total capacity to 4T.
> >
> > One of the 1T seams to be failing and needs to be replaces, so I tough
> > it's time for upgrade.
> >
> > Does any of you have recommendation there to get disks with lets say
> > at least 6T capacity at reasonable price?
> >
> > Maybe some refurbished? Could you share your experiences?
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From gwalsh at notw.ca  Mon Jan 13 14:37:10 2025
From: gwalsh at notw.ca (Gary Walsh)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 20:37:10 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Cheap disks for storage upgrade
In-Reply-To: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
References: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
Message-ID: <OGW9sSs--F-9@notw.ca>

Newegg.ca always has drives on sale of various capacities. They have a mailing list with current sales.
--
Gary Walsh
Sent with Tutanota, the secure & ad-free mailbox.



13 Jan 2025, 13:36 by kwlug-disc at kwlug.org:

> Hey Community,
>
> I have zfs setup with 3 x 1T raidz and 2 x 2T mirror disks bringing the total capacity to 4T.
>
> One of the 1T seams to be failing and needs to be replaces, so I tough it's time for upgrade.
>
> Does any of you have recommendation there to get disks with lets say at least 6T capacity at reasonable price?
>
> Maybe some refurbished? Could you share your experiences?
>
> Thank you
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From chris at chrisirwin.ca  Mon Jan 13 15:46:30 2025
From: chris at chrisirwin.ca (Chris Irwin)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 15:46:30 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Cheap disks for storage upgrade
In-Reply-To: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
References: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
Message-ID: <4fec7342-733a-4f73-92f7-22715e6bc283@app.fastmail.com>


On Mon, Jan 13, 2025, at 13:34, Anton Avramov via kwlug-disc wrote:
> Does any of you have recommendation there to get disks with lets say at 
> least 6T capacity at reasonable price?

I'm going through this right now. I've been recording a lot of video over the last few years, and need more storage. Buying 4x new 8TB drives at $250-300 per drive isn't too appealing, though.

I just bought some used drives on ebay. It's a big discount, but also a big risk. Supposedly no issues in SMART, and power-on hours seemed reasonable. Hopefully it works out (they're currently shipping).

The bigger question as local storage grows is how/where to back it up.

--
*Chris Irwin*

email:   chris at chrisirwin.ca
  web: https://chrisirwin.ca





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From jasonpa at gmail.com  Mon Jan 13 15:57:44 2025
From: jasonpa at gmail.com (Jason)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 15:57:44 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Cheap disks for storage upgrade
In-Reply-To: <4fec7342-733a-4f73-92f7-22715e6bc283@app.fastmail.com>
References: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
 <4fec7342-733a-4f73-92f7-22715e6bc283@app.fastmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEnL8_c1KXwT5p-QHNdN+5ECyiFx3SDrfrMCQNPUtRMHRWF5pA@mail.gmail.com>

For surveillance look at the WD Purple or equivalent drives, as they are
designed for use with NVRs to tolerate constant writes.

Then you could filter and archive your recordings to larger and
slower/cheaper drives.

I typically look on Reddit /r/homelabsales and filter with "CAN-ON" to see
local hardware.

Cheers,
Jason


On Mon, Jan 13, 2025, 3:49?PM Chris Irwin via kwlug-disc <
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:

>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2025, at 13:34, Anton Avramov via kwlug-disc wrote:
>
> Does any of you have recommendation there to get disks with lets say at
> least 6T capacity at reasonable price?
>
>
> I'm going through this right now. I've been recording a lot of video over
> the last few years, and need more storage. Buying 4x new 8TB drives at
> $250-300 per drive isn't too appealing, though.
>
> I just bought some used drives on ebay. It's a big discount, but also a
> big risk. Supposedly no issues in SMART, and power-on hours seemed
> reasonable. Hopefully it works out (they're currently shipping).
>
> The bigger question as local storage grows is how/where to back it up.
>
> --
> *Chris Irwin*
>
> email:   chris at chrisirwin.ca
>   web: https://chrisirwin.ca
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From ronsingh149 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 13 21:09:05 2025
From: ronsingh149 at gmail.com (Ron Singh)
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2025 21:09:05 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Cheap disks for storage upgrade
In-Reply-To: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
References: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
Message-ID: <CALQNZN4_sDfYst8tQrQUcxcKrvKm6_G-mUkByqx4e7kfTKVTEQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have worked with these people for many years, as far back as the early
90s --
https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
I get an email blast from them on a weekly basis and the last email showed
4 pcs of 2TB 3.5" drives, brand/model unknown. Expect them to be $40(or
less) each.
They may have larger capacities, not sure.
Worth an email/call/visit I think.
They are in Elmira.

Ron S.



On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 1:37?PM Anton Avramov via kwlug-disc <
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:

> Hey Community,
>
> I have zfs setup with 3 x 1T raidz and 2 x 2T mirror disks bringing the
> total capacity to 4T.
>
> One of the 1T seams to be failing and needs to be replaces, so I tough
> it's time for upgrade.
>
> Does any of you have recommendation there to get disks with lets say at
> least 6T capacity at reasonable price?
>
> Maybe some refurbished? Could you share your experiences?
>
> Thank you
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From zixiekat at gmail.com  Tue Jan 14 13:55:59 2025
From: zixiekat at gmail.com (Colin Mackay)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 13:55:59 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Cheap disks for storage upgrade
In-Reply-To: <CALQNZN4_sDfYst8tQrQUcxcKrvKm6_G-mUkByqx4e7kfTKVTEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
 <CALQNZN4_sDfYst8tQrQUcxcKrvKm6_G-mUkByqx4e7kfTKVTEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPSd_uGFYo6=MNFBUcfhp+60PT2TzDa76-U5T-0SS5H9hU4z-g@mail.gmail.com>

Personally, I use refurbished SAS disks from eBay.  I purchsed 10 Helios
8TB disks for my TrueNAS upgrade a year ago.  8 installed, 2 cold spares.
They usually ship with thousands of hours of runtime, but the MTBF (Mean
Time Between Failures) is in the millions of hours.  They're designed to
just keep running.  Mine are listed as 2.5 million hours.  Yes, take this
number with a grain of salt; this is theoretical; it's a calculation based
on how many drives failed over a time period.  This is why I purchas two
spares.  It gives me time to order another while the spare drive resilvers.

The advantage is they tend to be 50% - 80% cheaper, depending on the seller
and market...  I got mine for just under $100CAD each.  $14.99 shipping for
the lot.



On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 9:14?PM Ron Singh <ronsingh149 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have worked with these people for many years, as far back as the early
> 90s --
> https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> I get an email blast from them on a weekly basis and the last email showed
> 4 pcs of 2TB 3.5" drives, brand/model unknown. Expect them to be $40(or
> less) each.
> They may have larger capacities, not sure.
> Worth an email/call/visit I think.
> They are in Elmira.
>
> Ron S.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 1:37?PM Anton Avramov via kwlug-disc <
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:
>
>> Hey Community,
>>
>> I have zfs setup with 3 x 1T raidz and 2 x 2T mirror disks bringing the
>> total capacity to 4T.
>>
>> One of the 1T seams to be failing and needs to be replaces, so I tough
>> it's time for upgrade.
>>
>> Does any of you have recommendation there to get disks with lets say at
>> least 6T capacity at reasonable price?
>>
>> Maybe some refurbished? Could you share your experiences?
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
>> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
>> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From lukav at lukav.com  Wed Jan 15 18:17:40 2025
From: lukav at lukav.com (Anton Avramov)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 18:17:40 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Cheap disks for storage upgrade
In-Reply-To: <CAPSd_uGFYo6=MNFBUcfhp+60PT2TzDa76-U5T-0SS5H9hU4z-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e386ee99-6abd-4e37-866f-ad8f305966ff@lukav.com>
 <CALQNZN4_sDfYst8tQrQUcxcKrvKm6_G-mUkByqx4e7kfTKVTEQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAPSd_uGFYo6=MNFBUcfhp+60PT2TzDa76-U5T-0SS5H9hU4z-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d3e26556-1c60-415b-91e3-d9a0ecf61b2e@lukav.com>

Thank you all for the suggestions and shared experience.
You definitely gave me some options and things to think and research.

And special thanks to Jason who have graciously provided 1TB drive to 
replace my failing one and even 1 spare!

Thanks Jason!

It took almost 2 days to resilver 863G which is strange (I think) but 
then again I still use the disks all the time.

Now that my zpool is ONLINE again lets just hope I don't waste my time 
on other tasks before actually deciding on an upgrade path before it is 
too late.

Thank you all again.

On 2025-01-14 13:55, Colin Mackay wrote:
> Personally, I use refurbished SAS disks from eBay.? I purchsed 10 
> Helios 8TB disks for my TrueNAS upgrade a year ago.? 8 installed, 2 
> cold spares.? They usually ship with thousands of hours of runtime, 
> but the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) is in the millions of 
> hours.? They're designed to just keep running.? Mine are listed as 2.5 
> million hours. Yes, take this number with a grain of salt; this is 
> theoretical; it's a calculation based on how many drives failed over a 
> time period.? This is why I purchas two spares. It gives me time to 
> order another while the spare drive resilvers.
>
> The advantage is they tend to be 50% - 80% cheaper, depending on the 
> seller and market...? I got mine for just under $100CAD each.? $14.99 
> shipping for the lot.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 9:14?PM Ron Singh <ronsingh149 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     I have worked with these people for many years, as far back as the
>     early 90s --
>     https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
>     I get an email blast from them on a weekly basis and the last
>     email showed 4 pcs of 2TB 3.5" drives, brand/model unknown. Expect
>     them to be $40(or less) each.
>     They may have larger capacities, not sure.
>     Worth an email/call/visit I think.
>     They are in Elmira.
>
>     Ron S.
>
>
>
>     On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 1:37?PM Anton Avramov via kwlug-disc
>     <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:
>
>         Hey Community,
>
>         I have zfs setup with 3 x 1T raidz and 2 x 2T mirror disks
>         bringing the
>         total capacity to 4T.
>
>         One of the 1T seams to be failing and needs to be replaces, so
>         I tough
>         it's time for upgrade.
>
>         Does any of you have recommendation there to get disks with
>         lets say at
>         least 6T capacity at reasonable price?
>
>         Maybe some refurbished? Could you share your experiences?
>
>         Thank you
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         kwlug-disc mailing list
>         To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
>         with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
>         kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     kwlug-disc mailing list
>     To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
>     with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
>     kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email tokwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Wed Jan 15 21:49:00 2025
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2025 21:49:00 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] OT: KWTechs slack invites
References: <Z4hznJ8Avsm4vz2k.ref@nb-psychosis.crazy.local>
Message-ID: <Z4hznJ8Avsm4vz2k@nb-psychosis.crazy.local>

In addition to KWLUG there is a SECRET (proprietary) SLACK COMMUNITY
for locals in the tech scene at https://kwtechs.slack.com . It is not
FLOSS-focused (hence the OT in the subject) but the community there is
pretty good. There is an active #recommendations channel, 
gripes about Rogers outages and a river of Jason Eckert's dad jokes. 
There are also occasional job postings and requests for jobs, but that
is not as active as you can find elsewhere. 

The requirements to participate are: (a) you must reside in Waterloo
Region, and (b) you must be involved in the tech industry. (My hope is
that participating in KWLUG counts, but who knows. Maybe I don't
qualify to be in the community?)

If you would like an invite let me know. Send me the email you want
the invite sent to and justifications for the two requirements above.

- Paul


From ron at ronaldbarnes.ca  Thu Jan 30 06:29:36 2025
From: ron at ronaldbarnes.ca (Ronald Barnes)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 03:29:36 -0800
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs Mailman2
Message-ID: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>


I found a nifty trick for measuring the resource consumption of various 
services using systemd.

This was while trying to gauge the differences between Mailman v2 and 
Mailman v3 resource management.


I have ranted about how much more expensive MM3 is in resource 
consumption (basically, about ? of a 2GB RAM VPS is consumed).

I wanted further details.


What I found was, a setting (or several) that systemd provides:

There are a couple methods for enabling the *Accounting= features:

Edit /etc/systemd/system.conf and enabling:
   DefaultCPUAccounting=yes
   DefaultIOAccounting=yes
   DefaultIPAccounting=yes
   DefaultBlockIOAccounting=yes
   DefaultMemoryAccounting=yes
   DefaultTasksAccounting=yes

If one wants it for a single service, also a couple methods:

systemctl set-property mailman3 TasksAccounting=yes MemoryAccounting=yes
systemctl daemon-reload

Or add these lines (my preferred method, no systemctl daemon-reload needed):

# systemctl edit mailman3

[Service]
MemoryAccounting=yes
TasksAccounting=yes


Or:
do it manually


This makes it really easy to measure resources used by a service that 
has many processes running, i.e.:

# systemctl status mailman
...
       Tasks: 9 (limit: 2256)
      Memory: 46.5M
      CGroup: /system.slice/mailman.service
              ??1054 /usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl
              ??1056 /usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner
              ??1057 /usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner
              ??1058 /usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner
              ??1067 /usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner
              ??1068 /usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner
              ??1071 /usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner
              ??1083 /usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner
              ??1084 /usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner

And for comparison, mailman 3 (which has TWO service files):

# systemctl status mailman3
...
       Tasks: 17
      Memory: 889.9M
      CGroup: /system.slice/mailman3.service
              ??4112698 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112711 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112712 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112713 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112714 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112715 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112717 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112718 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112719 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112720 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112721 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112725 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112726 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112790 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112791 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python

# systemctl status mailman3-web
...
       Tasks: 12
      Memory: 182.4M
      CGroup: /system.slice/mailman3-web.service
              ??4112890 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/uwsgi
              ??4112904 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/uwsgi
              ??4112905 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/uwsgi
              ??4112906 /bin/sh ...
              ??4112908 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112910 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112912 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112913 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112914 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python
              ??4112915 /opt/mailman/venv/bin/python


It's now quite clear: mm2 uses 9 process and < 50 MB RAM, but MM3 uses 
17+12=29 processes (and that's with the default NNTP bridge disabled), 
and 889.9+182.4=1072.3 MB RAM.

That's a *lot* of Python processes!

Also, both require Apache (or NGINX), and MM3 requires PostgreSQL.



As it is, I can see a lot of small mailing list users abandoning MM3 
over this issue (plus its complexity).

For my list, that's about one Python interpreter loaded into RAM for 
each list subscriber!



From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Thu Jan 30 13:43:48 2025
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 13:43:48 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
Message-ID: <Z5vIZFUdHrf2euXE@foursquare.net>

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 03:29:36AM -0800, Ronald Barnes via kwlug-disc wrote:
> 
> I found a nifty trick for measuring the resource consumption of various
> services using systemd.

Fascinating stuff, thanks for sharing!

Are there any killer features in MM3 that warrant all this bloat?

- Chris



From lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Jan 30 14:00:52 2025
From: lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca (kyoung)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 14:00:52 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool tech
 classes
Message-ID: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>

Hello,

I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give away
old but fully functional equipments.

Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC devkits,
spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?

Thanks,

-kyoung


From kb at 2bits.com  Thu Jan 30 14:05:07 2025
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 14:05:07 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW1m8c_Dq6n_QuwO-vQR1FYi_b=ADSMWLmZ5Ou+z5WuA1Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 6:32?AM Ronald Barnes via kwlug-disc <
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:

> It's now quite clear: mm2 uses 9 process and < 50 MB RAM, but MM3 uses
> 17+12=29 processes (and that's with the default NNTP bridge disabled),
> and 889.9+182.4=1072.3 MB RAM.
>
> That's a *lot* of Python processes!
>

I am reminded of our discussion on this group about (October last year)
about
having lean software and avoiding bloat.

If the functionality is still the basic set (mail group + users adding and
removing
themselves, archive of threads), then using over 20X the RAM is totally
unwarranted.

There is so much CPU and RAM, and SSDs are much faster than HDDs, that many
(most?) developers don't bother to optimize anymore.
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From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Thu Jan 30 14:11:05 2025
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 14:11:05 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>

Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.  If you can post a list of
what you're got, some of the members might be interested.

The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul or
Charles to provide the details on that.

Last option would be any e-waste site.  I use Reality Bytes in Elmira.
https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/





On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give away
> old but fully functional equipments.
>
> Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC devkits,
> spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -kyoung
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Jan 30 14:37:45 2025
From: lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca (kyoung)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 14:37:45 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>

Good point. Here is the list.

laptops:
- t410 g1 (no battery pack)
- t480 g7? (need usb keyboard and mouse as something went wrong with
controller) + two battery packs
- X1 Carbon g3
- macbook pro air 2016
- powerbook g4
- two generic x86_64 laptops (one from samsung and one from lenovo not
sure about models)

SBCs:
- Zaurus SL-C3000
- USL-5P
(both runs old unsupported version of openbsd)
- pine64
- Banana Pi M1 A20

GPU:
- gtx 1650 4GB

If nobody wants them I will just drop them off at university's e-waste
collection but I always feel bad when I try to imagine how many
functioning computers I will be able to find in landfill...

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.  If you can post a list of
> what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> 
> The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul or
> Charles to provide the details on that.
> 
> Last option would be any e-waste site.  I use Reality Bytes in Elmira.
> https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give away
> > old but fully functional equipments.
> >
> > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC devkits,
> > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -kyoung
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> >

> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.



From jasonpa at gmail.com  Thu Jan 30 14:59:57 2025
From: jasonpa at gmail.com (Jason)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 14:59:57 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
Message-ID: <CAEnL8_dC1NeBW6+rEra8Hytb+Zwuor62nTqdnVMj5_-jD+V8Zw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kyoung,

I would take the Macbook Pro Air to test out Asahi Linux on, if possible.
Might be able to turn it into a light workstation for a friend of mine who
doesn't have a computer.

I agree that The Working Centre could be a good home for some of this
equipment.  I'll email you a direct link to their Discord.

Cheers,
Jason


On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 2:39?PM kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

> Good point. Here is the list.
>
> laptops:
> - t410 g1 (no battery pack)
> - t480 g7? (need usb keyboard and mouse as something went wrong with
> controller) + two battery packs
> - X1 Carbon g3
> - macbook pro air 2016
> - powerbook g4
> - two generic x86_64 laptops (one from samsung and one from lenovo not
> sure about models)
>
> SBCs:
> - Zaurus SL-C3000
> - USL-5P
> (both runs old unsupported version of openbsd)
> - pine64
> - Banana Pi M1 A20
>
> GPU:
> - gtx 1650 4GB
>
> If nobody wants them I will just drop them off at university's e-waste
> collection but I always feel bad when I try to imagine how many
> functioning computers I will be able to find in landfill...
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> > Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.  If you can post a list of
> > what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> >
> > The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul or
> > Charles to provide the details on that.
> >
> > Last option would be any e-waste site.  I use Reality Bytes in Elmira.
> > https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give away
> > > old but fully functional equipments.
> > >
> > > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC devkits,
> > > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > -kyoung
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> > >
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Jan 30 15:22:57 2025
From: lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca (kyoung)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:22:57 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <CAEnL8_dC1NeBW6+rEra8Hytb+Zwuor62nTqdnVMj5_-jD+V8Zw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
 <CAEnL8_dC1NeBW6+rEra8Hytb+Zwuor62nTqdnVMj5_-jD+V8Zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20250130202257.GA2318794@plg2>

Hi Jason,

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:59:57PM -0500, Jason wrote:
> I would take the Macbook Pro Air to test out Asahi Linux on, if possible.
> Might be able to turn it into a light workstation for a friend of mine who
> doesn't have a computer.

Does asahi linux support older intel macbooks?

Also I could not find charger for this one so I will probably just treat
it as an e-waste. My old friend left me with this years ago but I never
bothered with mac...
 
> I agree that The Working Centre could be a good home for some of this
> equipment.  I'll email you a direct link to their Discord.

sounds good. you can email or send invite to my discord account
(i think my tag was "floating_signifier" or something)
 
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 2:39?PM kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Good point. Here is the list.
> >
> > laptops:
> > - t410 g1 (no battery pack)
> > - t480 g7? (need usb keyboard and mouse as something went wrong with
> > controller) + two battery packs
> > - X1 Carbon g3
> > - macbook pro air 2016
> > - powerbook g4
> > - two generic x86_64 laptops (one from samsung and one from lenovo not
> > sure about models)
> >
> > SBCs:
> > - Zaurus SL-C3000
> > - USL-5P
> > (both runs old unsupported version of openbsd)
> > - pine64
> > - Banana Pi M1 A20
> >
> > GPU:
> > - gtx 1650 4GB
> >
> > If nobody wants them I will just drop them off at university's e-waste
> > collection but I always feel bad when I try to imagine how many
> > functioning computers I will be able to find in landfill...
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> > > Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.  If you can post a list of
> > > what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> > >
> > > The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul or
> > > Charles to provide the details on that.
> > >
> > > Last option would be any e-waste site.  I use Reality Bytes in Elmira.
> > > https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give away
> > > > old but fully functional equipments.
> > > >
> > > > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC devkits,
> > > > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > -kyoung
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> > > >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> >

> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.



From lukav at lukav.com  Thu Jan 30 15:24:01 2025
From: lukav at lukav.com (Anton Avramov)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:24:01 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
Message-ID: <c6a8d805c3f3c122ccdb57b9671b114591564eba.camel@lukav.com>

Hi Kyoung, 

I can use the X1 Carbon g3 for some of my daughters, so they stop
fighting for her mothers laptop :) 

I would also like to play with the Banana Pi and pine64, please. 

If not, I agree that the best option is to donate them to
https://www.theworkingcentre.org/computer-recycling/178 where they can
go to someone else that needs them. It's a great place. 

Cheers, 
Anton

On Thu, 2025-01-30 at 14:37 -0500, kyoung wrote:
> Good point. Here is the list.
> 
> laptops:
> - t410 g1 (no battery pack)
> - t480 g7? (need usb keyboard and mouse as something went wrong with
> controller) + two battery packs
> - X1 Carbon g3
> - macbook pro air 2016
> - powerbook g4
> - two generic x86_64 laptops (one from samsung and one from lenovo
> not
> sure about models)
> 
> SBCs:
> - Zaurus SL-C3000
> - USL-5P
> (both runs old unsupported version of openbsd)
> - pine64
> - Banana Pi M1 A20
> 
> GPU:
> - gtx 1650 4GB
> 
> If nobody wants them I will just drop them off at university's e-
> waste
> collection but I always feel bad when I try to imagine how many
> functioning computers I will be able to find in landfill...
> 
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> > Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.? If you can post a
> > list of
> > what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> > 
> > The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul
> > or
> > Charles to provide the details on that.
> > 
> > Last option would be any e-waste site.? I use Reality Bytes in
> > Elmira.
> > https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give
> > > away
> > > old but fully functional equipments.
> > > 
> > > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC
> > > devkits,
> > > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > > -kyoung
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org?to contact a human being.
> > > 
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org?to contact a human being.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org?to contact a human being.



From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Thu Jan 30 15:24:32 2025
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:24:32 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOSD3AA=1vaNbAL_eiQQBqbzz6pKs5Y=eoasmajGaiiEgA@mail.gmail.com>

That X1 Carbon g3, is that the i5?  I could fix that up and give it to the
Ukrainians in town..


On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:39, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

> Good point. Here is the list.
>
> laptops:
> - t410 g1 (no battery pack)
> - t480 g7? (need usb keyboard and mouse as something went wrong with
> controller) + two battery packs
> - X1 Carbon g3
> - macbook pro air 2016
> - powerbook g4
> - two generic x86_64 laptops (one from samsung and one from lenovo not
> sure about models)
>
> SBCs:
> - Zaurus SL-C3000
> - USL-5P
> (both runs old unsupported version of openbsd)
> - pine64
> - Banana Pi M1 A20
>
> GPU:
> - gtx 1650 4GB
>
> If nobody wants them I will just drop them off at university's e-waste
> collection but I always feel bad when I try to imagine how many
> functioning computers I will be able to find in landfill...
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> > Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.  If you can post a list of
> > what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> >
> > The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul or
> > Charles to provide the details on that.
> >
> > Last option would be any e-waste site.  I use Reality Bytes in Elmira.
> > https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give away
> > > old but fully functional equipments.
> > >
> > > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC devkits,
> > > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > -kyoung
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> > >
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From ron at ronaldbarnes.ca  Thu Jan 30 15:32:59 2025
From: ron at ronaldbarnes.ca (Ronald Barnes)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 12:32:59 -0800
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <Z5vIZFUdHrf2euXE@foursquare.net>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <Z5vIZFUdHrf2euXE@foursquare.net>
Message-ID: <80560cbc-1745-468d-a91a-7f0e73da142e@ronaldbarnes.ca>

Chris Frey wrote on 2025-01-30 10:43:

> Are there any killer features in MM3 that warrant all this bloat?

Perhaps.

There are some really nice features geared towards large lists like 
Python's, some that are nice for any list.


1) built-in archive search
	Ever search something, land in a list archive and
	try to navigate that? It's terrible.

2) reply to messages in the archive
	If someone joins a list and finds some message
	relevant to them from before they joined, they
	can reply in browser

3) up/down voting messages in browser
	Can help users evaluate messages - if anyone uses this

4) a *much* nicer interface for management of list / users

5) a user can have multiple email addresses
	They can be subscribed to different lists
	I'm not experienced enough to know much about this

6) fewer commands to interact with list via email
	Some would consider this a negative

7) full-text indexing of messages
	Related to #1, making searching pretty effective


Making all these parts work together ... kinda hard. For me, anyway.

I'd forgotten how I set up mailman v2 and so many new parts (Django, 
gunicorn, Hyperkitty, Postorius,...) that it was so confusing.  That 
might be a "me" problem.



From lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Jan 30 15:33:54 2025
From: lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca (kyoung)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:33:54 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <c6a8d805c3f3c122ccdb57b9671b114591564eba.camel@lukav.com>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
 <c6a8d805c3f3c122ccdb57b9671b114591564eba.camel@lukav.com>
Message-ID: <20250130203354.GA2331059@plg2>

hello Anton,

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 03:24:01PM -0500, Anton Avramov via kwlug-disc wrote:
> I can use the X1 Carbon g3 for some of my daughters, so they stop
> fighting for her mothers laptop :) 
>
> I would also like to play with the Banana Pi and pine64, please. 

Banana Pi is taken but you can take X1 and pine64.

Would you be able to drive to campus tomorrow or Saturday?

(I just realized I haven't thought of logistics...)

Regards,
 
> On Thu, 2025-01-30 at 14:37 -0500, kyoung wrote:
> > Good point. Here is the list.
> > 
> > laptops:
> > - t410 g1 (no battery pack)
> > - t480 g7? (need usb keyboard and mouse as something went wrong with
> > controller) + two battery packs
> > - X1 Carbon g3
> > - macbook pro air 2016
> > - powerbook g4
> > - two generic x86_64 laptops (one from samsung and one from lenovo
> > not
> > sure about models)
> > 
> > SBCs:
> > - Zaurus SL-C3000
> > - USL-5P
> > (both runs old unsupported version of openbsd)
> > - pine64
> > - Banana Pi M1 A20
> > 
> > GPU:
> > - gtx 1650 4GB
> > 
> > If nobody wants them I will just drop them off at university's e-
> > waste
> > collection but I always feel bad when I try to imagine how many
> > functioning computers I will be able to find in landfill...
> > 
> > On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> > > Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.? If you can post a
> > > list of
> > > what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> > > 
> > > The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul
> > > or
> > > Charles to provide the details on that.
> > > 
> > > Last option would be any e-waste site.? I use Reality Bytes in
> > > Elmira.
> > > https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hello,
> > > > 
> > > > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give
> > > > away
> > > > old but fully functional equipments.
> > > > 
> > > > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC
> > > > devkits,
> > > > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > 
> > > > -kyoung
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org?to contact a human being.
> > > > 
> > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org?to contact a human being.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org?to contact a human being.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.


From lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Jan 30 15:35:26 2025
From: lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca (kyoung)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:35:26 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <CAKyYXOSD3AA=1vaNbAL_eiQQBqbzz6pKs5Y=eoasmajGaiiEgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOSD3AA=1vaNbAL_eiQQBqbzz6pKs5Y=eoasmajGaiiEgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20250130203526.GA2335667@plg2>

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 03:24:32PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> That X1 Carbon g3, is that the i5?  I could fix that up and give it to
> the Ukrainians in town..

sorry Anton was about 1 minute faster so it is taken unless he changes
his mind.

for Ukrainian community, how about you gift them two laptops (samsung
and lenovo ideapad)?

regards,

-kyoung
 
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:39, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Good point. Here is the list.
> >
> > laptops:
> > - t410 g1 (no battery pack)
> > - t480 g7? (need usb keyboard and mouse as something went wrong with
> > controller) + two battery packs
> > - X1 Carbon g3
> > - macbook pro air 2016
> > - powerbook g4
> > - two generic x86_64 laptops (one from samsung and one from lenovo not
> > sure about models)
> >
> > SBCs:
> > - Zaurus SL-C3000
> > - USL-5P
> > (both runs old unsupported version of openbsd)
> > - pine64
> > - Banana Pi M1 A20
> >
> > GPU:
> > - gtx 1650 4GB
> >
> > If nobody wants them I will just drop them off at university's e-waste
> > collection but I always feel bad when I try to imagine how many
> > functioning computers I will be able to find in landfill...
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> > > Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.  If you can post a list of
> > > what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> > >
> > > The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul or
> > > Charles to provide the details on that.
> > >
> > > Last option would be any e-waste site.  I use Reality Bytes in Elmira.
> > > https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give away
> > > > old but fully functional equipments.
> > > >
> > > > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC devkits,
> > > > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > -kyoung
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> > > >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> >

> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.



From ron at ronaldbarnes.ca  Thu Jan 30 15:38:21 2025
From: ron at ronaldbarnes.ca (Ronald Barnes)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 12:38:21 -0800
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <80560cbc-1745-468d-a91a-7f0e73da142e@ronaldbarnes.ca>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <Z5vIZFUdHrf2euXE@foursquare.net>
 <80560cbc-1745-468d-a91a-7f0e73da142e@ronaldbarnes.ca>
Message-ID: <842fe918-11f4-4056-9fe0-a3c3f0559dcb@ronaldbarnes.ca>

Ronald Barnes via kwlug-disc wrote on 2025-01-30 12:32:

> 4) a *much* nicer interface for management of list / users

This part can't be overstated.

Mailman v2 web interface is like a wood-panel basement with orange, shag 
carpet, a paisley chesterfield, and a big fluorescent tube for lighting.

With ashtrays everywhere.


Mailman v3 does not hurt the eyes. And uses AJAX.


Also, the landing page for a list shows activity stats, which can be nice.

Doesn't cost much to collect (might just be a query) and shows post 
quantity, participant metrics, etc.

Not necessary, but easy enough to gather so might as well present it.



From lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Jan 30 15:51:08 2025
From: lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca (kyoung)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:51:08 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20250130205108.GA2349219@plg2>

Actually I thought about it and decided to donate following laptops to
the working centre's Computer Recycling and House of Friendship.

Please contact me if and only if you are interested in other misc older
computers (banana pi is taken and I think Anton wants pine64)

- X1 gen3
- T480 + usb keyboard and mouse
- Lenovo Ideapad
- Generic Samsung laptop

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.  If you can post a list of
> what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> 
> The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul or
> Charles to provide the details on that.
> 
> Last option would be any e-waste site.  I use Reality Bytes in Elmira.
> https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give away
> > old but fully functional equipments.
> >
> > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC devkits,
> > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -kyoung
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> >

> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.



From kb at 2bits.com  Thu Jan 30 15:52:00 2025
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:52:00 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <842fe918-11f4-4056-9fe0-a3c3f0559dcb@ronaldbarnes.ca>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <Z5vIZFUdHrf2euXE@foursquare.net>
 <80560cbc-1745-468d-a91a-7f0e73da142e@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <842fe918-11f4-4056-9fe0-a3c3f0559dcb@ronaldbarnes.ca>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW2dBWQSmCcvdiqVFruY3ptAw=QO0xU-r9rrmQi5etzvLQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ronald,

It looks like you are not alone in suffering from high resource usage.

There is an open issue for it on Gitlab

https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/1050

It was opened two years ago, but not closed yet.

There are some suggestions in there for some changes to configuration
(less runner processes, ...etc) that may be worth a shot.

The same user opened another issue, also still open:

https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/merge_requests/1093
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From jasonpa at gmail.com  Thu Jan 30 15:53:41 2025
From: jasonpa at gmail.com (Jason)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:53:41 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <20250130202257.GA2318794@plg2>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
 <CAEnL8_dC1NeBW6+rEra8Hytb+Zwuor62nTqdnVMj5_-jD+V8Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <20250130202257.GA2318794@plg2>
Message-ID: <CAEnL8_cAMi7a0Gxp2u3w4ew5WfwA+a3Unfi==nzPgQkrKRpY3g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kyong,

If it's Intel, then it's even easier to get Linux running on it.  Happy to
mess around with it.
It's fine if you don't have the charger. I'm sure I can scrounge up a
MagSafe connector or USB charger to give it a try with.

Cheers,
Jason


On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 3:25?PM kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

> Hi Jason,
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:59:57PM -0500, Jason wrote:
> > I would take the Macbook Pro Air to test out Asahi Linux on, if possible.
> > Might be able to turn it into a light workstation for a friend of mine
> who
> > doesn't have a computer.
>
> Does asahi linux support older intel macbooks?
>
> Also I could not find charger for this one so I will probably just treat
> it as an e-waste. My old friend left me with this years ago but I never
> bothered with mac...
>
> > I agree that The Working Centre could be a good home for some of this
> > equipment.  I'll email you a direct link to their Discord.
>
> sounds good. you can email or send invite to my discord account
> (i think my tag was "floating_signifier" or something)
>
> > On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 2:39?PM kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > Good point. Here is the list.
> > >
> > > laptops:
> > > - t410 g1 (no battery pack)
> > > - t480 g7? (need usb keyboard and mouse as something went wrong with
> > > controller) + two battery packs
> > > - X1 Carbon g3
> > > - macbook pro air 2016
> > > - powerbook g4
> > > - two generic x86_64 laptops (one from samsung and one from lenovo not
> > > sure about models)
> > >
> > > SBCs:
> > > - Zaurus SL-C3000
> > > - USL-5P
> > > (both runs old unsupported version of openbsd)
> > > - pine64
> > > - Banana Pi M1 A20
> > >
> > > GPU:
> > > - gtx 1650 4GB
> > >
> > > If nobody wants them I will just drop them off at university's e-waste
> > > collection but I always feel bad when I try to imagine how many
> > > functioning computers I will be able to find in landfill...
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> > > > Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.  If you can post a
> list of
> > > > what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> > > >
> > > > The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul or
> > > > Charles to provide the details on that.
> > > >
> > > > Last option would be any e-waste site.  I use Reality Bytes in
> Elmira.
> > > > https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give away
> > > > > old but fully functional equipments.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC
> devkits,
> > > > > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > -kyoung
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> > >
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From lukav at lukav.com  Thu Jan 30 15:59:20 2025
From: lukav at lukav.com (Anton Avramov)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 15:59:20 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <20250130203354.GA2331059@plg2>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
 <c6a8d805c3f3c122ccdb57b9671b114591564eba.camel@lukav.com>
 <20250130203354.GA2331059@plg2>
Message-ID: <117a5897179aa3f45ae6de649b8033e30c788b2e.camel@lukav.com>

Sure I can swing by tomorrow. You can send me a personal email with
place and time. 

Also if Jason doesn't have a charger for the Macbook Pro and doesn't
want it anymore I'll take it. The one we are using is actually pretty
similar and I can use it's charger and switch between them. 

Also I would be attending the next KWLUG meeting and tomorrow I can
take anything for anyone that would also attend and bring them on the
meeting. 

In fact I've been planing to visit the Recycling Center at some point,
so I can take the stuff for them and bring them also. 

Looking forward. 
Cheers

On Thu, 2025-01-30 at 15:33 -0500, kyoung wrote:
> hello Anton,
> 
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 03:24:01PM -0500, Anton Avramov via kwlug-
> disc wrote:
> > I can use the X1 Carbon g3 for some of my daughters, so they stop
> > fighting for her mothers laptop :) 
> > 
> > I would also like to play with the Banana Pi and pine64, please. 
> 
> Banana Pi is taken but you can take X1 and pine64.
> 
> Would you be able to drive to campus tomorrow or Saturday?
> 
> (I just realized I haven't thought of logistics...)
> 
> Regards,
> ?
> > On Thu, 2025-01-30 at 14:37 -0500, kyoung wrote:
> > > Good point. Here is the list.
> > > 
> > > laptops:
> > > - t410 g1 (no battery pack)
> > > - t480 g7? (need usb keyboard and mouse as something went wrong
> > > with
> > > controller) + two battery packs
> > > - X1 Carbon g3
> > > - macbook pro air 2016
> > > - powerbook g4
> > > - two generic x86_64 laptops (one from samsung and one from
> > > lenovo
> > > not
> > > sure about models)
> > > 
> > > SBCs:
> > > - Zaurus SL-C3000
> > > - USL-5P
> > > (both runs old unsupported version of openbsd)
> > > - pine64
> > > - Banana Pi M1 A20
> > > 
> > > GPU:
> > > - gtx 1650 4GB
> > > 
> > > If nobody wants them I will just drop them off at university's e-
> > > waste
> > > collection but I always feel bad when I try to imagine how many
> > > functioning computers I will be able to find in landfill...
> > > 
> > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> > > > Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.? If you can post
> > > > a
> > > > list of
> > > > what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> > > > 
> > > > The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to
> > > > Paul
> > > > or
> > > > Charles to provide the details on that.
> > > > 
> > > > Last option would be any e-waste site.? I use Reality Bytes in
> > > > Elmira.
> > > > https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to
> > > > > give
> > > > > away
> > > > > old but fully functional equipments.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops,
> > > > > SBC
> > > > > devkits,
> > > > > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local
> > > > > hobbyists?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > 
> > > > > -kyoung
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org?to contact a human being.
> > > > > 
> > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org?to contact a human being.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org?to contact a human being.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org?to contact a human being.



From ron at ronaldbarnes.ca  Thu Jan 30 16:20:52 2025
From: ron at ronaldbarnes.ca (Ronald Barnes)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 13:20:52 -0800
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW2dBWQSmCcvdiqVFruY3ptAw=QO0xU-r9rrmQi5etzvLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <Z5vIZFUdHrf2euXE@foursquare.net>
 <80560cbc-1745-468d-a91a-7f0e73da142e@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <842fe918-11f4-4056-9fe0-a3c3f0559dcb@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW2dBWQSmCcvdiqVFruY3ptAw=QO0xU-r9rrmQi5etzvLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8799424-590f-4a19-80b8-3cde342c0f7d@ronaldbarnes.ca>

Khalid Baheyeldin wrote on 2025-01-30 12:52:

> It looks like you are not alone in suffering from high resource usage.
> 
> There is an open issue for it on Gitlab
> 
> https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/1050 <https://gitlab.com/ 
> mailman/mailman/-/issues/1050>
> 
> It was opened two years ago, but not closed yet.

Thanks Khalid, that is an interesting issue he's raised.


Kind of disappointing that a forking type solution wasn't pursued.

I suppose forking would have excess overhead on large / busy systems 
though, and making it an optional feature might be quite hard.


It does appear that hobbyists have to either upgrade, sacrifice some 
resources, or are left behind.



Maybe someone should set up a central hosting service for Mailman3 
accessible to LUGs, hobbyists, etc. and charge a fee to cover hosting.


Hmmm... I wonder if anyone would pay for that service?



From ron at ronaldbarnes.ca  Thu Jan 30 16:28:00 2025
From: ron at ronaldbarnes.ca (Ronald Barnes)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 13:28:00 -0800
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW1m8c_Dq6n_QuwO-vQR1FYi_b=ADSMWLmZ5Ou+z5WuA1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW1m8c_Dq6n_QuwO-vQR1FYi_b=ADSMWLmZ5Ou+z5WuA1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22565e7b-b0b3-42aa-bd2b-c52b73565f06@ronaldbarnes.ca>

Khalid Baheyeldin wrote on 2025-01-30 11:05:


> I am reminded of our discussion on this group about (October last
> year) about having lean software and avoiding bloat.

I'm not sure this qualifies as bloat though.

Well, NNTP integration by default is, but I think it's been disabled by 
default at my suggestion.


> If the functionality is still the basic set (mail group + users
> adding and removing themselves, archive of threads), then using over
> 20X the RAM is totally unwarranted.
Per my other message, it does quite a bit more. A lot more.


Whether those added features are of benefit to everyone is debatable.


I can't really fault the authors for updating the software to something 
that covers their usage on huge lists - "scratching an itch" is a 
central tenet of OS software.


Maybe a fork of v2 that works with Python3 and doesn't look like it is 
slathered in leaded paint would be nice.


From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Thu Jan 30 16:41:47 2025
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 16:41:47 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <20250130205108.GA2349219@plg2>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20250130205108.GA2349219@plg2>
Message-ID: <540c7b03-1917-4287-afd6-8400960c1e93@yahoo.ca>

- X1 Carbon G3 -- seems it's same vintage as my T450. OK, I want it.

- Generic Samsung -- Hi Kyoung, What's the spec on this?


To Charles,

When are you open?  Is it still what's posted on your website?
Tue 10-12, Wed 1-4 ?


On 2025-01-30 15:51, kyoung wrote:
> Actually I thought about it and decided to donate following laptops to
> the working centre's Computer Recycling and House of Friendship.
> 
> Please contact me if and only if you are interested in other misc older
> computers (banana pi is taken and I think Anton wants pine64)
> 
> - X1 gen3
> - T480 + usb keyboard and mouse
> - Lenovo Ideapad
> - Generic Samsung laptop


From chaslinux at gmail.com  Thu Jan 30 16:52:57 2025
From: chaslinux at gmail.com (Charles M)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 16:52:57 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <20250130193745.GA2224578@plg2>
Message-ID: <CANKsL=Mu074scKFzxy5yp20t6p9RAXsiqkmR2iEgwVHPtqLD_A@mail.gmail.com>

I have a contact with a teacher at a school in Guelph that would really
appreciate any of the macs (even Core 2 Duo macs). He works with his
students to repair macs. Feel free to email me and I will connect the two
of you if interested.

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025, 2:39?p.m. kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

> Good point. Here is the list.
>
> laptops:
> - t410 g1 (no battery pack)
> - t480 g7? (need usb keyboard and mouse as something went wrong with
> controller) + two battery packs
> - X1 Carbon g3
> - macbook pro air 2016
> - powerbook g4
> - two generic x86_64 laptops (one from samsung and one from lenovo not
> sure about models)
>
> SBCs:
> - Zaurus SL-C3000
> - USL-5P
> (both runs old unsupported version of openbsd)
> - pine64
> - Banana Pi M1 A20
>
> GPU:
> - gtx 1650 4GB
>
> If nobody wants them I will just drop them off at university's e-waste
> collection but I always feel bad when I try to imagine how many
> functioning computers I will be able to find in landfill...
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> > Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.  If you can post a list of
> > what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> >
> > The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul or
> > Charles to provide the details on that.
> >
> > Last option would be any e-waste site.  I use Reality Bytes in Elmira.
> > https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give away
> > > old but fully functional equipments.
> > >
> > > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC devkits,
> > > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > -kyoung
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> > >
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
>
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From lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Jan 30 19:20:45 2025
From: lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca (kyoung)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 19:20:45 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] laptop donations
In-Reply-To: <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20250131002045.GA2688670@plg2>

As it is difficult for me to arrange logistics with everyone
individually, I will hand over my laptops to Anton tomorrow.

KWL community can take what they need and donate remaining ones to the
Working Centre.

Cheers,

-kyoung

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.  If you can post a list of
> what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> 
> The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul or
> Charles to provide the details on that.
> 
> Last option would be any e-waste site.  I use Reality Bytes in Elmira.
> https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give away
> > old but fully functional equipments.
> >
> > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC devkits,
> > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -kyoung
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> >

> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.



From kb at 2bits.com  Thu Jan 30 19:35:23 2025
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2025 19:35:23 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <22565e7b-b0b3-42aa-bd2b-c52b73565f06@ronaldbarnes.ca>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW1m8c_Dq6n_QuwO-vQR1FYi_b=ADSMWLmZ5Ou+z5WuA1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <22565e7b-b0b3-42aa-bd2b-c52b73565f06@ronaldbarnes.ca>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW0=B=OXnxwDWunTzAiH=JuLUtNXVc6-MB0+QmWPuWRgAg@mail.gmail.com>

Just curious ... Did you try other tools, e.g. top, to see the memory usage
per python process?

I agree that they have to address their own need first and foremost.
Perhaps others who run smaller lists can the advice/contribute on how to
pare down memory usage.

One obvious way to do this is modularization, and configurability.
Examples, number of worker processes (e.g. how Apache, Nginx or PHP-FPM
handles it: number of processes to start with, maximum number, and number
of hot spares), or features (fancy user interface yes/no).

But because this is obvious, perhaps it is already there, or tried and
didn't work for some reason.

In any case, it doesn't hurt to write follow ups for the issues on Gitlab,
and send the info in your original message. Maybe if enough people report
this as an issue, a solution would be found.
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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Jan 31 01:12:34 2025
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 01:12:34 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Utility to parse HTTP response
References: <1027d36f-0883-4a56-9145-1b9e12f37929.ref@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <1027d36f-0883-4a56-9145-1b9e12f37929@yahoo.ca>

Hi all, (also posted to GTALUG)

To build HTTP request, you use 'curl'.

After you get HTTP response, what utility do you use to extract stuffs 
you want?  JSON format has 'jq', and XML format has 'xmlstarlet'.  I'm 
looking for something like that but for HTTP format.

I know it's simple (HTTP response has 3 parts: first line, headers, and 
body), but I just want to reduce chance of typos.
-- 


From ron at ronaldbarnes.ca  Fri Jan 31 04:22:44 2025
From: ron at ronaldbarnes.ca (Ronald Barnes)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 01:22:44 -0800
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW0=B=OXnxwDWunTzAiH=JuLUtNXVc6-MB0+QmWPuWRgAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW1m8c_Dq6n_QuwO-vQR1FYi_b=ADSMWLmZ5Ou+z5WuA1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <22565e7b-b0b3-42aa-bd2b-c52b73565f06@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW0=B=OXnxwDWunTzAiH=JuLUtNXVc6-MB0+QmWPuWRgAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1748522e-6b6e-4c17-8eb5-183f57d6c57f@ronaldbarnes.ca>

Khalid Baheyeldin wrote on 2025-01-30 16:35:

> Just curious ... Did you try other tools, e.g. top, to see the memory 
> usage per python process?

I used the `free` command with mailman running then with it stopped.

Not very precise breakdown (I'm not keen on `free`).  But it clearly 
showed a dramatic difference (I forget the numbers, a couple / few 
hundred MB for MM2 vs ~1.4 GB for MM3?)


I just had a look at top, htop, and btop.

The results were sub-optimal. Filtering for "postgres" also shows `sudo 
-u postgres psql ...` and filtering on "mailman" doesn't give a summary, 
nor do I know if I have all processes showing (i.e. in systemctl output 
there's a process called `sh` running).


It seems summing the processes memory usage is a manual task that way too.

Maybe I'm there are some features that I'm unaware of?




> I agree that they have to address their own need first and foremost.
> Perhaps others who run smaller lists can the advice/contribute on how to 
> pare down memory usage.
> 
> One obvious way to do this is modularization, and configurability.
> Examples, number of worker processes (e.g. how Apache, Nginx or PHP-FPM 
> handles it: number of processes to start with, maximum number, and 
> number of hot spares), or features (fancy user interface yes/no).

I do wish it were more like that, but with the Apache / Nginx example, 
each process does the same thing, so it scales - with Mailman, each 
Python is doing a separate task.



> But because this is obvious, perhaps it is already there, or tried and 
> didn't work for some reason.
> 
> In any case, it doesn't hurt to write follow ups for the issues on 
> Gitlab, and send the info in your original message. Maybe if enough 
> people report this as an issue, a solution would be found.

I might do that. I've now got some evidence I could share there.


I've got MM3 testing disabled at the moment and might just shut down MM2 
and quit hosting mailing lists.

Until such a time as someone wants to pay for the resources they require...



From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Fri Jan 31 07:06:10 2025
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 07:06:10 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <80560cbc-1745-468d-a91a-7f0e73da142e@ronaldbarnes.ca>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <Z5vIZFUdHrf2euXE@foursquare.net>
 <80560cbc-1745-468d-a91a-7f0e73da142e@ronaldbarnes.ca>
Message-ID: <Z5y8spXbwgDZBtTh@foursquare.net>

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 12:32:59PM -0800, Ronald Barnes via kwlug-disc wrote:
> There are some really nice features geared towards large lists like
> Python's, some that are nice for any list.

Thanks for the list!  My uneducated guess is that the full text searching
is where the resources are going.... and the use of postgresql.

- Chris



From kb at 2bits.com  Fri Jan 31 08:11:49 2025
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 08:11:49 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <1748522e-6b6e-4c17-8eb5-183f57d6c57f@ronaldbarnes.ca>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW1m8c_Dq6n_QuwO-vQR1FYi_b=ADSMWLmZ5Ou+z5WuA1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <22565e7b-b0b3-42aa-bd2b-c52b73565f06@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW0=B=OXnxwDWunTzAiH=JuLUtNXVc6-MB0+QmWPuWRgAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1748522e-6b6e-4c17-8eb5-183f57d6c57f@ronaldbarnes.ca>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW24y=cS5WdXJNn=4Ux3O8kJmZ5FtZXADE7y=vgbzca4ew@mail.gmail.com>

For htop, you can just sort (F6) by Mem or Res.
One is total memory, including shared, the other is actual resident memory.
You will immediately see what is taking up the most memory.

I agree with Chris: searching and PostgreSQL seem to be the culprits.

I did abandon an RSS news aggregation program because the new version
forced PostgreSQL, and abandoned MySQL. The developer said the new version
is "opinionated" right on the Github page. Since I run MySQL for a few
things, and don't want to run and administer yet another database just for
that one program, I searched and settled for another program.

Back to MM3, if the search is modular and can be turned off, that may do
it.
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From kb at 2bits.com  Fri Jan 31 09:15:01 2025
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 09:15:01 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Utility to parse HTTP response
In-Reply-To: <1027d36f-0883-4a56-9145-1b9e12f37929@yahoo.ca>
References: <1027d36f-0883-4a56-9145-1b9e12f37929.ref@yahoo.ca>
 <1027d36f-0883-4a56-9145-1b9e12f37929@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW0xU1yUNWokOU4irPhxxj+XgVChgOJYyddWE-wNWy2XCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 1:16?AM William Park via kwlug-disc <
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:

> Hi all, (also posted to GTALUG)
>
> To build HTTP request, you use 'curl'.
>
> After you get HTTP response, what utility do you use to extract stuffs
> you want?  JSON format has 'jq', and XML format has 'xmlstarlet'.  I'm
> looking for something like that but for HTTP format.
>
> I know it's simple (HTTP response has 3 parts: first line, headers, and
> body), but I just want to reduce chance of typos.
>

Do you want to do this from the bash, in shell scripts?
Or something else.

>From shell scripts, I do this:

curl -s -k -L -i -o $TMP -H "User-Agent: $UA" "$URL" 2>&1

# Print the headers
sed -ne '1,/^^M$/p' $TMP

That ^M is actually a Ctrl-M which separates the header portion
from the returned content.

For kwlug.org for example, it returns this

HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 14:04:01 GMT
Server: Apache
X-Content-Type-Options: nosniff
Location: http://kwlug.org/
Cache-Control: max-age=31536000
Expires: Sat, 31 Jan 2026 14:04:01 GMT
Content-Length: 225
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

That of course means the headers and the content are merged in
one output file, and you have to extract what you need with lots
of code.

If it is something more complex, then I use Python's requests library.
You need to use exceptions to handle things like timeouts and too
many redirects, ...etc.

A brief tutorial can be found here (and elsewhere)

https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/python-requests-tutorial/

-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
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From lukav at lukav.com  Fri Jan 31 10:46:18 2025
From: lukav at lukav.com (Anton Avramov)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 10:46:18 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Utility to parse HTTP response
In-Reply-To: <1027d36f-0883-4a56-9145-1b9e12f37929@yahoo.ca>
References: <1027d36f-0883-4a56-9145-1b9e12f37929.ref@yahoo.ca>
 <1027d36f-0883-4a56-9145-1b9e12f37929@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <11dbc66102c3064bbf8b90f71abfe6bb212ca12d.camel@lukav.com>

Hi William, 

You can have curl do it for you: 

Option 1: Used --output and --dump-headers switches to write the
headers and the body of the request in separate files. Then it is
trivial to get the response code with head -n 1 <header dump file>. 

Option 2: You can use --write-out switch to actually format the output
(including headers, http_code etc) in whatever best works for you.

P.S. looking for the --write-out switch in the manual I see it has: 
json           A JSON object with all available keys. (Added in 7.70.0)
So it would be possible to use that and then jq again.

Cheers
 
On Fri, 2025-01-31 at 01:12 -0500, William Park via kwlug-disc wrote:
> Hi all, (also posted to GTALUG)
> 
> To build HTTP request, you use 'curl'.
> 
> After you get HTTP response, what utility do you use to extract
> stuffs 
> you want?? JSON format has 'jq', and XML format has 'xmlstarlet'.?
> I'm 
> looking for something like that but for HTTP format.
> 
> I know it's simple (HTTP response has 3 parts: first line, headers,
> and 
> body), but I just want to reduce chance of typos.



From lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Jan 31 13:22:29 2025
From: lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca (kyoung)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 13:22:29 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] donating hardwares for hobbyists or highschool
 tech classes
In-Reply-To: <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20250130190052.GA2172593@plg2>
 <CAKyYXOS=X2aKuuDys3dfHHO7xySyBtwhjCStxD0q1YZ2UWi2iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20250131182229.GA3811059@plg2>

I handed off everything under the laptops list to Anton.

If anyone wanted something please coordinate with him.

Happy Computing,

-Kyoung

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 02:11:05PM -0500, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> Your first stop would be right here in KWLUG.  If you can post a list of
> what you're got, some of the members might be interested.
> 
> The second option is the Laptop Rescue, but I'll leave it to Paul or
> Charles to provide the details on that.
> 
> Last option would be any e-waste site.  I use Reality Bytes in Elmira.
> https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 30 Jan 2025 at 14:02, kyoung <lseo at plg.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am a student who is about to graduate and would like to give away
> > old but fully functional equipments.
> >
> > Does anybody know if there is a way to donate old laptops, SBC devkits,
> > spare components or old GPUs etc to school or local hobbyists?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -kyoung
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> > with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> > kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.
> >

> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.



From kb at 2bits.com  Fri Jan 31 17:43:33 2025
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 17:43:33 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Utility to parse HTTP response
In-Reply-To: <11dbc66102c3064bbf8b90f71abfe6bb212ca12d.camel@lukav.com>
References: <1027d36f-0883-4a56-9145-1b9e12f37929.ref@yahoo.ca>
 <1027d36f-0883-4a56-9145-1b9e12f37929@yahoo.ca>
 <11dbc66102c3064bbf8b90f71abfe6bb212ca12d.camel@lukav.com>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW29euahCYuf-Pbhc-1wpLxmEmxUXrT4VZsFPqzV-7uHJg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 10:49?AM Anton Avramov via kwlug-disc <
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:

> P.S. looking for the --write-out switch in the manual I see it has:
> json           A JSON object with all available keys. (Added in 7.70.0)
> So it would be possible to use that and then jq again.
>

I used the --write-out switch to make a small shell script that would
tell me quickly how fast a site is, and whether it redirects

curl -skL -o /dev/null -w
"%{http_code},%{time_total},%{num_redirects},%{url_effective}\n"
www.kwlug.org
200,0.370061,2,https://kwlug.org/

This says that there were 2 redirects, the end HTTP code is 200 (good), and
it took 0.37 seconds to serve the request.

In your case, you can do something like this:

curl -skL -o /dev/null -w "%{http_code}\n%{header_json}\n" www.kwlug.org
200
{
"date":["Thu, 30 Jan 2025 19:00:12 GMT"],
"server":["Apache"],
"cache-control":["max-age=86400, public"],
"x-drupal-dynamic-cache":["MISS"],
"content-language":["en"],
"x-content-type-options":["nosniff"],
"x-frame-options":["SAMEORIGIN"],
"expires":["Sun, 19 Nov 1978 05:00:00 GMT"],
"vary":["Cookie,Accept-Encoding"],
"x-generator":["Drupal 10 (https://www.drupal.org)"],
"x-drupal-cache":["HIT"],
"last-modified":["Thu, 30 Jan 2025 19:00:09 GMT"],
"etag":["\"1738263609\""],
"transfer-encoding":["chunked"],
"content-type":["text/html; charset=UTF-8"]
}
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From ron at ronaldbarnes.ca  Fri Jan 31 18:25:44 2025
From: ron at ronaldbarnes.ca (Ronald Barnes)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 15:25:44 -0800
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW24y=cS5WdXJNn=4Ux3O8kJmZ5FtZXADE7y=vgbzca4ew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW1m8c_Dq6n_QuwO-vQR1FYi_b=ADSMWLmZ5Ou+z5WuA1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <22565e7b-b0b3-42aa-bd2b-c52b73565f06@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW0=B=OXnxwDWunTzAiH=JuLUtNXVc6-MB0+QmWPuWRgAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1748522e-6b6e-4c17-8eb5-183f57d6c57f@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW24y=cS5WdXJNn=4Ux3O8kJmZ5FtZXADE7y=vgbzca4ew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b018e9d1-5a42-4bef-b73c-a9f58a051dfa@ronaldbarnes.ca>

Khalid Baheyeldin wrote on 2025-01-31 05:11:

> For htop, you can just sort (F6) by Mem or Res.
> One is total memory, including shared, the other is actual resident memory.
> You will immediately see what is taking up the most memory.

That's a good tip, thanks.


> I agree with Chris: searching and PostgreSQL seem to be the culprits.

The memory usage I showed earlier did not include PostgreSQL, it was a 
gazillion Python interpreters and one shell.



> Back to MM3, if the search is modular and can be turned off, that may do 
> it.

I don't remember how the indexing works, but I think it's triggered by a 
cron job or triggered by the archiving process.

i.e. the full text indexing takes at most one process and I don't think 
it's persistent.


All those Pythons are talking to Postfix, to each other, to PostgreSQL, etc.


I never really figured out how it does what it does, whether v2 or v3.

Looking now, I see a Python2 interpreter loaded thusly:

 > /usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1

So, a NNTP gateway is loaded, consuming about 5MB RAM... for NNTP.

I can't find how to diable NNTP on Mailman v2.



Thanks for the top / htop tip!

I like btop for an overview but it might be a bit too busy sometimes.



From kb at 2bits.com  Fri Jan 31 18:39:40 2025
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 18:39:40 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <b018e9d1-5a42-4bef-b73c-a9f58a051dfa@ronaldbarnes.ca>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW1m8c_Dq6n_QuwO-vQR1FYi_b=ADSMWLmZ5Ou+z5WuA1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <22565e7b-b0b3-42aa-bd2b-c52b73565f06@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW0=B=OXnxwDWunTzAiH=JuLUtNXVc6-MB0+QmWPuWRgAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1748522e-6b6e-4c17-8eb5-183f57d6c57f@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW24y=cS5WdXJNn=4Ux3O8kJmZ5FtZXADE7y=vgbzca4ew@mail.gmail.com>
 <b018e9d1-5a42-4bef-b73c-a9f58a051dfa@ronaldbarnes.ca>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW3pX0V7timSODCvuP27r2RQ5UGWEY4AmP6mw6N4teg1Gw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 6:28?PM Ronald Barnes via kwlug-disc <
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:

> Khalid Baheyeldin wrote on 2025-01-31 05:11:
>
> > I agree with Chris: searching and PostgreSQL seem to be the culprits.
>
> The memory usage I showed earlier did not include PostgreSQL, it was a
> gazillion Python interpreters and one shell.
>

PostgreSQL itself will be using a lot of memory.

But my guess here is that it could very well be that processes that issue
queries to the database do it in an inefficient way.

For example, if they do a query that returns a very large dataset, and then
process it using Python code, in memory to further whittle it down to what
it is needed.

This is one of the things that are not obvious to many (most?) developers,
specially if they are using an abstraction layer that masks all this.
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From ron at ronaldbarnes.ca  Fri Jan 31 18:53:04 2025
From: ron at ronaldbarnes.ca (Ronald Barnes)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 15:53:04 -0800
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW3pX0V7timSODCvuP27r2RQ5UGWEY4AmP6mw6N4teg1Gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW1m8c_Dq6n_QuwO-vQR1FYi_b=ADSMWLmZ5Ou+z5WuA1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <22565e7b-b0b3-42aa-bd2b-c52b73565f06@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW0=B=OXnxwDWunTzAiH=JuLUtNXVc6-MB0+QmWPuWRgAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1748522e-6b6e-4c17-8eb5-183f57d6c57f@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW24y=cS5WdXJNn=4Ux3O8kJmZ5FtZXADE7y=vgbzca4ew@mail.gmail.com>
 <b018e9d1-5a42-4bef-b73c-a9f58a051dfa@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW3pX0V7timSODCvuP27r2RQ5UGWEY4AmP6mw6N4teg1Gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3b73ab6a-d3a6-42c5-a14c-414b1f59d258@ronaldbarnes.ca>

Khalid Baheyeldin wrote on 2025-01-31 15:39:

>     The memory usage I showed earlier did not include PostgreSQL, it was a
>     gazillion Python interpreters and one shell.
> 
> 
> PostgreSQL itself will be using a lot of memory.
> 
> But my guess here is that it could very well be that processes that issue
> queries to the database do it in an inefficient way.

I should look closer at the processes being run.



Mailman v2 (slightly trimmed to avoid wrapping):

Command
/usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner
/usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner
/usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner
/usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner
/usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner
/usr/bin/python2 /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start
/usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner-s
/usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner
/usr/bin/python2 /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunners

Looks like all mail handling. No DB is used by v2.



Mailman v3:

/venv/bin/master -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg
/venv/bin/runner -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg --runner=archive
/venv/bin/runner -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg --runner=bounces
/venv/bin/runner -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg --runner=command
/venv/bin/runner -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg --runner=in
/venv/bin/runner -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg --runner=lmtp
/venv/bin/runner -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg --runner=out
/venv/bin/runner -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg --runner=pipeline
/venv/bin/runner -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg --runner=rest
/venv/bin/runner -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg --runner=retry
/venv/bin/runner -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg --runner=task
/venv/bin/runner -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg --runner=virgin
/venv/bin/runner -C /etc/mailman3/mailman.cfg --runner=digest


And all those are for mail processing except --runner=rest, which I 
think is web interface.

One of those just for digests?  Shouldn't that be a cron job task, not a 
persistent one?


Mailman3-web:

/venv/bin/uwsgi --ini /etc/mailman3/uwsgi.ini
/venv/bin/uwsgi --ini /etc/mailman3/uwsgi.ini
/venv/bin/uwsgi --ini /etc/mailman3/uwsgi.ini
/opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman-web qcluster"
/venv/bin/python /opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman-web qcluster
/venv/bin/python /opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman-web qcluster
/venv/bin/python /opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman-web qcluster
/venv/bin/python /opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman-web qcluster
/venv/bin/python /opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman-web qcluster
/venv/bin/python /opt/mailman/venv/bin/mailman-web qcluster


All those uswgi are web services gateway interface stuff, as the service 
name indicates.

The rest of them?

Who even knows?

I bet one (or more) of these are for querying the DB and reading / 
feeding messages from mail queues / to web interface.



This all gives me a headache.



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Jan 31 19:14:02 2025
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 19:14:02 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Utility to parse HTTP response
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW0xU1yUNWokOU4irPhxxj+XgVChgOJYyddWE-wNWy2XCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1027d36f-0883-4a56-9145-1b9e12f37929.ref@yahoo.ca>
 <1027d36f-0883-4a56-9145-1b9e12f37929@yahoo.ca>
 <CA+TuoW0xU1yUNWokOU4irPhxxj+XgVChgOJYyddWE-wNWy2XCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26b0aba4-6116-4073-a7bd-4b4b7f69996f@yahoo.ca>

Maybe someone already wrote a standalone utility based on Python HTTP 
libraries.  Thanks.


On 2025-01-31 09:15, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 31, 2025 at 1:16?AM William Park via kwlug-disc <kwlug- 
> disc at kwlug.org <mailto:kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi all, (also posted to GTALUG)
> 
>     To build HTTP request, you use 'curl'.
> 
>     After you get HTTP response, what utility do you use to extract stuffs
>     you want?? JSON format has 'jq', and XML format has 'xmlstarlet'.? I'm
>     looking for something like that but for HTTP format.
> 
>     I know it's simple (HTTP response has 3 parts: first line, headers, and
>     body), but I just want to reduce chance of typos.
> 
> 
> Do you want to do this from the bash, in shell scripts?
> Or something else.
> 
>  From shell scripts, I do this:
> 
> curl -s -k -L -i -o $TMP -H "User-Agent: $UA" "$URL" 2>&1
> 
> # Print the headers
> sed -ne '1,/^^M$/p' $TMP
> 
> That ^M is actually a Ctrl-M which separates the header portion
> from the returned content.
> 
> For kwlug.org <http://kwlug.org> for example, it returns this
> 
> HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently
> Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 14:04:01 GMT
> Server: Apache
> X-Content-Type-Options: nosniff
> Location: http://kwlug.org/ <http://kwlug.org/>
> Cache-Control: max-age=31536000
> Expires: Sat, 31 Jan 2026 14:04:01 GMT
> Content-Length: 225
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> That of course means the headers and the content are merged in
> one output file, and you have to extract what you need with lots
> of code.
> 
> If it is something more complex, then I use Python's requests library.
> You need to use exceptions to handle things like timeouts and too
> many redirects, ...etc.
> 
> Abrief tutorial can be found here (and elsewhere)
> 
> https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/python-requests-tutorial/ <https:// 
> www.geeksforgeeks.org/python-requests-tutorial/>
> 
> -- 
> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> To unsubscribe, send an email to kwlug-disc-leave at kwlug.org
> with the subject "unsubscribe", or email
> kwlug-disc-owner at kwlug.org to contact a human being.



From kb at 2bits.com  Fri Jan 31 22:37:52 2025
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2025 22:37:52 -0500
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Service resource management: i.e. Mailman3 vs
 Mailman2
In-Reply-To: <3b73ab6a-d3a6-42c5-a14c-414b1f59d258@ronaldbarnes.ca>
References: <159d85b1-8d21-44d4-a079-ebd7aa00cc27@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW1m8c_Dq6n_QuwO-vQR1FYi_b=ADSMWLmZ5Ou+z5WuA1Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <22565e7b-b0b3-42aa-bd2b-c52b73565f06@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW0=B=OXnxwDWunTzAiH=JuLUtNXVc6-MB0+QmWPuWRgAg@mail.gmail.com>
 <1748522e-6b6e-4c17-8eb5-183f57d6c57f@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW24y=cS5WdXJNn=4Ux3O8kJmZ5FtZXADE7y=vgbzca4ew@mail.gmail.com>
 <b018e9d1-5a42-4bef-b73c-a9f58a051dfa@ronaldbarnes.ca>
 <CA+TuoW3pX0V7timSODCvuP27r2RQ5UGWEY4AmP6mw6N4teg1Gw@mail.gmail.com>
 <3b73ab6a-d3a6-42c5-a14c-414b1f59d258@ronaldbarnes.ca>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW1QT-ZrTwZ=QCzDQvkoz-A+ksgdv0kT7dqhSkNsi+=q8A@mail.gmail.com>

Try something like this:

 ps -eo pid,user,cputimes,rss,args | grep pyth

On both MM v2 and v3.

The 3rd column is cumulative CPU usage, and the 4th is the resident set
size (actual memory used)

See if some processes are significantly larger than the others, whether the
bloat is proportional from v2 to v3, or some have grown, others didn't, ...
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