[kwlug-disc] Permissive vs copyleft licenses

[Jason Eckert]

> On the other hand, I am also unhappy with the solutions we have
> developed to give people incomes while developing software. So there
> is no pleasing me.

What are your thoughts around the use-and-fund model that GitHub
is promoting (GitHub Sponsors)? It starts at the 4min mark here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m9nUP-e8Co

The more I think about this sort of model, the more I think it will become
the norm in the future for open source projects.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 8:24 AM Paul Nijjar via kwlug-disc
<kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:
>
> In reflecting about this more:
>
> - gcc was the killer application that enabled the FLOSS movement. It
>   provided a gratis way to build software, and the software it built
>   did not have to be licenced under copyleft. I wonder if this is not
>   part of the reason Linux won out over the BSDs.
>
> - The GPL is a defensive license that worked well in the 1990s. The
>   danger then was that Microsoft and other proprietary companies would
>   slurp up BSD software. The GPL made software unslurpable by those
>   proprietary companies, so people who were against Microsoft
>   (remember those innocent days?) had something to rally around.
>
>   But the world has changed. It has become cloudier. The new threat is
>   Amazon, which found ways around the GPL by slurping up software and
>   running it on its own servers, but keeping additions proprietary.
>   The AGPL was one attempt at thwarting this, but it did not work. So
>   the new defensive position is the one taken by MongoDB and Elastic:
>   license their code so that you can access the source and get the
>   binaries for gratis, but make it so that you cannot take the code
>   and create a competing product. FLOSS purists hate this one simple
>   trick, but if you think of FLOSS as a set of defensive strategies
>   against corporations slurping up the competition, it makes sense.
>   What you lose from this approach is the FLOSS purists, and
>   contributions from your competition.
>
> Don't get me wrong. I shamefacedly admit that my own loyalties have
> always been towards the commons and the pro-social side of software,
> because apparently I am a communist who wants to be poor for his
> entire life? But I think the pragmatics of FLOSS have shifted the
> other way.
>
> As to why I do not think the GPL model of "make contributions in your
> spare time" works:
>
> - It leads to software you cannot trust, because the founders graduate
>   university or lose interest or have to pay rent all of a sudden.
> - It means that software gets written by those with extra time on
>   their hands, when we really need software written by people with a
>   diversity of life experiences.
> - Having people take and take from your product and give nothing back
>   is a great way to burn people out.
>
> On the other hand, I am also unhappy with the solutions we have
> developed to give people incomes while developing software. So there
> is no pleasing me.
>
> - Paul
>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 11:40:52PM -0500, Paul Nijjar via kwlug-disc wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 04:12:00PM -0500, Mikalai Birukou wrote:
> > >
> > > > But it seems easier to attract
> > > > contributors (in particular, contributors with deep pockets) for
> > > > BSD-style licensing.
> > >
> > > And here I ask for actual examples were big co have contributed.
> >
> > Apache Lucene?
> > OpenSSL?
> > Postgres?
> > pfSense (and therefore FreeBSD)?
> > clang, of course.
> >
> > In terms of end-user applications, neither style of open source
> > license won. SaaS won instead. The desktop software model has passed
> > its heyday.
> >
> > In terms of how small projects can become successful big ones: you
> > need to grow a community of contributors somehow.
> >
> >
> > - Paul
> >
> >
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