[kwlug-disc] Small low power server for HomeAssistant

Khalid Baheyeldin kb at 2bits.com
Sat Feb 3 12:19:53 EST 2018 

Thanks.

Those are nice. The one with the case has an onboard CPU (or so it seems),
so needs RAM and disk. The other one does not see to include a CPU. It is
always vague with these listings on eBay, isn't it?

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Ron Singh <ronsingh149 at gmail.com> wrote:

> A couple of solutions(from China, so ship time will be a while) for the
> mobo(sans ssd/ram) and a kitted solution(again, without ssd/ram) based on
> the Intel Celeron J1900 SOC --
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-New-4-LAN-J1900-Mini-ITX-
> Fanless-motherboard-Q1900G4-M/263105808367
> &
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fanless-Mini-Computer-
> Barebone-2-Gigabit-Nic-4-USB-VGA-HD-COM-Intel-J1900-Nettop/162546020408
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Singh
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 11:57 AM, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:
>
>> It should, but I am evaluating the alternatives before committing to an
>> RPi 3.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 11:47 AM, CrankyOldBugger <
>> crankyoldbugger at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> While I can't say that I understand the requirements, but would a $50
>>> Raspberry Pi do the trick?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2 February 2018 at 11:43, Ron Singh <ronsingh149 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just had a thought and hammer the idea of a laptop a bit more:-)
>>>> See, Reality Bytes in Elmira has some X220T tablets for less than 200
>>>> bucks/i5/4G/320G hdd) and I think one of these mounted on a wall will
>>>> afford a touchscreen interface to quickly look at stats and will not take
>>>> up too much space, about 12" x 10" I would think
>>>>
>>>> https://www.realitybytescomputers.com/
>>>>
>>>> As a reseller, they do the grade "B" X220T to my form for some $160, so
>>>> I think the retail is around $190-$200.
>>>>
>>>> A headless solution, tucked away would be the best and very clean, but
>>>> man, the $$$ is significant.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps some old Intel NUC based on an older i3 or i5 would be perfect
>>>> too if you can find one cheap o Kijiji or Ebay.
>>>> I haven't looked at NUCs in quite a while with mostly the Atom-based
>>>> units being fanless, Mebbe the i3-32xx boards can be had fanless too.
>>>>
>>>> A few years back we did some DFI mini-ITX boards with i5-520M as packet
>>>> sniffing appliances for a local client and those boards had 4 NICs,
>>>> watchdog, wireless, but no GPIO. Seems like anything fanless and with GPIO
>>>> becomes "industrial use" with an "industrial" price attached:-(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Ron Singh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 11:19 AM, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 10:27 AM, Ron Singh <ronsingh149 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Khalid, this project is very exciting! Would like to have an idea of
>>>>>> the networked devices you plan on using.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Home Assistant supports a huge variety of sensors and devices.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go here, and look at the list on the left, and click on each to see
>>>>> what devices are supported.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://home-assistant.io/components/
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of that is 'cloud' which I will not bother with. Also supports
>>>>> Alexa, Google Home, ..etc, which I will not touch.
>>>>>
>>>>> But they are there for those who want to go that way.
>>>>>
>>>>> One feature is using ping to check for devices that are up. Another
>>>>> uses nmap, ...etc. etc. etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you put in enough time (and money and/or effort) you can end up
>>>>> with a dashboard like this:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://appdaemon.readthedocs.io/en/latest/DASHBOARD_INSTALL.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder, despite the fact that they are not fanless, would a laptop
>>>>>> not suffice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> A laptop suffices from a specs point of view. But it has a fan, and a
>>>>> screen, so runs warm, and needs more ventilation, and is not really
>>>>> headless.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Zotac run off a standard 12v wall wart, which means things are
>>>>> more flexible.
>>>>>
>>>>> See, I have an X220(i5-2540M), set up as a torrent/playback PC that is
>>>>>> never turned off, it is hooked up via a DP/HDMI cable to a TV set and uses
>>>>>> a HID-compliant wireless mini keyboard(with trackpad)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the BIOS, I have the Intel SpeedStep feature turned off, the power
>>>>>> settings are "battery optimized" and the thermal setting is also for fan
>>>>>> optimized.
>>>>>> Essentially, this 2,4Ghz CPu spends most of it's time at 800-ish Mhz.
>>>>>> One can force it to stick around 800-ish Mhz via TLP, but I have not tried
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>> It runs Mint-Cinnamon-18.1, essentially Ubuntu 16.04.1 with the
>>>>>> Cinnamon DE.
>>>>>> With the laptop's screen set at minimum(it is all set up in the
>>>>>> basement), the X220 uses 11 watts idling and 23 watts streaming/playing
>>>>>> back 1080P media.
>>>>>> The X220 has a slow-poke 5400rpm 750G HDD which is set for a 5 min
>>>>>> spin-down when idle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seem viable with all those tweeks and an SSD.
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to compare the watt usage of a Raspberry Pi to your 11 W.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Would this platform(an i5-equipped X220) or any other i3/i5 laptop be
>>>>>> appropriate for this end-use?
>>>>>> I have looked into fanless PCs in the past, based on mobile Intel
>>>>>> chips and crippled desktop chips, but they are pretty spendy with current
>>>>>> models starting at $400 and still needing RAM and storage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is where the Zotac will end up, and I don't want to spend that
>>>>> money.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have not played yet with this tool:
>>>>>> https://01.org/powertop/downloads/powertop-v2.9
>>>>>> but it looks real promising in its ability to really fine tune some
>>>>>> powersaving features of an Intel platform.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have 2.8 installed. It is in Ubuntu's repositories. apt-get install
>>>>> powertop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Played with it on the older laptop, and on this one. Basically there
>>>>> is a tab menu on top and one of them is 'Tunables'. If you go there, you
>>>>> can turn power saving per device. It can also generate for you the commands
>>>>> to turn this power saving in /sys, and you can create a script and put it
>>>>> in /etc/rc.local and it will do that for you on boot.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reason I used it was to prevent the fan from kicking in a lot,
>>>>> since it bothers me.
>>>>>
>>>>> It worked fine on my old laptop (Core 2 Duo). On the newer laptop
>>>>> (Core i5) I turned this script off for some reason that eludes me now.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did not measure any watts with any watt usage of the above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another reason for an SBC like the Raspberry Pi, is having GPIO pins
>>>>> that can be connected to sensors (say an Arduino gateway for something or
>>>>> other). With laptops, you are limited to USB and serial.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looking into home automation, I settled on Home Assistant
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://home-assistant.io/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is written in Python, and there is a Raspberry Pi 3 image for
>>>>>>> it already (Hassbian, based on Raspbian, which is Debian derived).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alternate install methods do work, and I managed to get it up and
>>>>>>> running on a good old AMD server running Ubuntu 16.04 using Python venv.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://home-assistant.io/docs/installation/virtualenv/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now, I want it to be permanently hosted on its own lower power
>>>>>>> server. The Raspberry Pi 3 is an option, but I want to make sure I explore
>>>>>>> other lower power servers that run stock Debian or Ubuntu 16.04 (or 18.04
>>>>>>> soon). The reason is: the rich repository. If you want some package, it is
>>>>>>> already there, and you are not stuck.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So an Intel/AMD server is desirable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Zotac have some servers that take power from a 12v adapters, and
>>>>>>> fanless, but they will be over $300 and up after one puts a CPU and SSD
>>>>>>> disk in them. An RPi3 is ~ $100 with a case and a microSD card.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is Beagle Bone Black, and Pine64. There is also Odroid. But
>>>>>>> all these have a very small community and running Debian/Ubuntu on them
>>>>>>> with a rich repository will not be viable in the long run.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the questions are:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Does anyone here use Home Assistant? Would like to hear your
>>>>>>> experience with it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. What other options are there for low power, low footprint servers
>>>>>>> that run stock Debian/Ubuntu?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
>>>>>>> 2bits.com, Inc.
>>>>>>> Fast Reliable Drupal
>>>>>>> Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
>>>>>>> Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
>>>>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
>>>>>>> For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple,
>>>>>>> and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>>>>>>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>>>>>>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
>>>>> 2bits.com, Inc.
>>>>> Fast Reliable Drupal
>>>>> Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
>>>>> Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
>>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
>>>>> For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple,
>>>>> and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>>>>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>>>>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
>> 2bits.com, Inc.
>> Fast Reliable Drupal
>> Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
>> Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
>> For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
>> wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>>
>


-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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