From webhost at kwlug.org  Sun Aug  1 18:01:31 2010
From: webhost at kwlug.org (webhost at kwlug.org)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 18:01:31 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux User Group new
	content notification: 2010-08-01 18:01
Message-ID: <E1Ofgb5-00086l-Ji@astoria.ccjclearline.com>

Greetings mail-forum-merge,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recent content - 2 new posts
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. KWLUG Meeting: Monday, March 7 2011
Published Meeting Agenda by pnijjar
[ http://kwlug.org/node/754 ]


---

2. Demo Night: Clutter + more
Published Presentation Topic by pnijjar
[ http://kwlug.org/node/755 ]

This meeting will consist of three (?) shorter presentations by KWLUG
members. 
Darcy Casselman will present Clutter [1]. He writes: "Clutter is a
library developed by Intel designed for building their smartphone user
interfaces.  It's open source and available for use on the desktop as
well.  Gnome is using it for Gnome Shell and Ubuntu is using it in their
Unity netbook UI.  Best of all, it's fun and easy to get started with it
and see some nifty effects. We'll show you how to get started with
Clutter in Python.

[1] http://www.clutter-project.org/


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From unsolicited at swiz.ca  Sun Aug  1 18:28:41 2010
From: unsolicited at swiz.ca (unsolicited)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 18:28:41 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc]  Periodic reminder - kwlug.org has good stuff on it!
Message-ID: <4C55F519.3060501@swiz.ca>


Periodic reminder - kwlug.org has good stuff on it!

Last Updated: 7/1/10 - if updates since are not reflected here, please 
advise, as per footer.


Hello Everyone!

Just a reminder that kwlug.org has lots of good stuff on it!

Main Web Site: <a href="http://kwlug.org/">http://kwlug.org/</a>

[CENTER]
Home - http://kwlug.org/
	About KWLUG - http://kwlug.org/node/445
	(Further details here, below.)
		Locations - http://kwlug.org/locations
		- with pictures & maps
		Meeting Outline - http://kwlug.org/node/55
		- Setup/pre-meeting: 6pm
		- Formal meeting start: 7pm
		- Post meeting: 9pm
		o Special Meetings
	FLOSS Fund - http://kwlug.org/node/410
	(Further details here, below.)
		Contributions - http://kwlug.org/contributions
		Nominate a Project - http://kwlug.org/node/add/nominee
	My Account - http://kwlug.org/user/...
		- view: recent blog entries, membership duration
		- edit: e-mail address, password, {$your} picture,
		  block configuration, comment & contact settings
		- my notification settings: new content
		  (title/teaser/body), new comments
		- track: things you've blogged, commented upon, etc.
	Meetings - http://kwlug.org/upcoming
		Calendar/iCal - http://kwlug.org/node/611
		- Very nice (graphical) calendar of events here, from
		  Google 'Southern Ontario F/LOSS Event Calendar'
		 (Thanks Lori!)
		Previous meetings - http://kwlug.org/archive
		Suggest a Presentation - http://kwlug.org/node/add 			  /presentation
		Topic Requests - http://kwlug.org/suggestions
		Archive (2005-2006) - http://kwlug.org/taxonomy/term/1
		Archive (  to 2005) - http://kwlug.org/node/5
	Resources - http://kwlug.org/node/404
		FAQ - http://kwlug.org/node/60
		Forum Discussions - http://kwlug.org/forum/51
		Member Blogs - http://drupal.kwlug.org/blog
		Software Library - http://kwlug.org/node/515
		- Introduction, DVD, CD, Future Directions
		Meetings - http://kwlug.org/node/445
		- Agenda from past meetings
		- Our Next Meeting
		- Future meetings
		- Suggested topics
		Mailing list - http://kwlug.org/node/56
		(with web interface links)
		- kwlug-disc
		- kwlug-help
		- kwlug-announce
		Local Activities - http://kwlug.org/node/717
		- Projects - e.g. Barry, Computer Recycling, Drupal
		  Security, Ontario Linux Fest, Puppy Linux
		- Commercial Support - e.g. 2bits.com, CCj/Clearline,
		  NetDirect, PeaceWorks
		- Training - e.g. Conestoga College, Crashcourse
		- Other Activities of Note - e.g. Insurance Squared
		- User Groups - e.g. Friends and Neighbours
		  - http://kwlug.org/node/403
		Software Library - http://kwlug.org/node/515
		F.A.Q. - http://kwlug.org/node/60
		
		Friends and Neighbours: Other User Groups
		- http://kwlug.org/node/403
		  - Regional Municipality of Linux ...
		  - Other Computer Groups in K/W ...
		  - Other Groups of Interest ...
		Reviews - http://kwlug.org/node/add/blog
		The FLOSS Fund - http://kwlug.org/node/410
		  - Nominate a project - http://kwlug.org/node/add 			    /nominee
		  - Nominee queue - http://kwlug.org/node/459
		  - Nominee Posts - http://kwlug.org/nominees
		   [access denied]
		  Previous contributions - http://kwlug.org
		    /contributions
		Presentation Topic Suggestions - http://kwlug.org/node
		  /add/presentation
		Attendance Sheet - http://kwlug.org/files
		  /attendance_v3.pdf
		LUG Logo - http://kwlug.org/files/kwlug-logo.tgz
	Get Help - http://kwlug.org/gethelp
	- Mailing List - http://kwlug.org/node/56
	- Contact Form - http://kwlug.org/contact
	- Meetings - http://kwlug.org/upcoming
	- Commercial Support - http://kwlug.org/node/717
	Contact Us - http://kwlug.org/contact

[RIGHT SIDE]	
Recent FLOSS Fund donations - http://kwlug.org/contributions
FLOSS Fund nominees - http://kwlug.org/node/459
Recent posts - http://kwlug.org/tracker
Suggested / Requested topics - http://kwlug.org/suggestions
Recent blog posts - http://kwlug.org/blog

[LEFT SIDE]
{$My} blog - http://kwlug.org/blog/...
Create content - http://kwlug.org/node/add
	Blog entry - http://kwlug.org/add/blog
	Book page - http://kwlug.org/add/book
	Forum topic - http://kwlug.org/add/forum
	Location - http://kwlug.org/add/location
	Meeting Agenda - http://kwlug.org/add/agenda
	Nominee - http://kwlug.org/add/nominee
	Page - http://kwlug.org/add/page
	Presentation Topic - http://kwlug.org/add/presentation
	Story - http://kwlug.org/add/story
Recent posts - http://kwlug.org/tracker
Administer - http://kwlug.org/admin
<YMMV>
	Books - http://kwlug.org/admin/content/book
	Comments - http://kwlug.org/admin/content/comment
	Content - http://kwlug.org/admin/content/node
	Content types - http://kwlug.org/admin/content/types
	Post settings - http://kwlug.org/admin/content/node-settings
	Search content - http://kwlug.org/admin/content/search
	Spam filters - http://kwlug.org/admin/content/spam
	Spam - http://kwlug.org/admin/settings/spam
	Logs - http://kwlug.org/admin/logs
	- Recent log entries - http://kwlug.org/admin/logs/watchdog
	- Top 'access denied' errors - http://kwlug.org/admin/logs
	  /access-denied
	- Top 'page not found' errors - http://kwlug.org/admin/logs
	  /page-not-found
	- Top search phrases - http://kwlug.org/admin/logs/search
	Help - http://kwlug.org/admin/help
	- Lots here - drupal topics and terminology.
</YMMV>
Log out - http://kwlug.org/logout

Corrections, missed items, and comments on this post, are gratefully
appreciated, at: http://kwlug.org/node/748.



From kb at 2bits.com  Sun Aug  1 21:12:03 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 21:12:03 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Gnome statistics: Redhat 16 - Canonical 1?
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=sFeHEeE3uRqHrUhP+56K2RZDDwBecVuxmf7em@mail.gmail.com>

Some Gnome statistics were published, and some are spinning it
as "Redhat contributes 16 to 1 more than Canonical".

For example: ex-Community manager for Redhat:

http://gregdekspeaks.wordpress.com/2010/07/29/red-hat-16-canonical-1/

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/08/01/0326208/First-GNOME-Census-Results

I find reducing "contribution" to being defined by amount of patches or
lines
of code to be at least myopic and/or biased.

Redhat exited the consumer desktop market a long time ago, and Ubuntu
filled in that void. They package and polish existing software into a good
product, and built a community around it. That is their contribution, not
just
code ...

No wonder Mark Shuttleworth decries Tribalism

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/07/30/1855203/Tribalism-Is-the-Enemy-Within-Says-Shuttleworth

This the first time that notice unhealthy rivalry between Canonical and
Redhat,
or has this been going on for a long time. If it is recent, what triggered
it?
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com  Sun Aug  1 21:40:04 2010
From: ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com (Lori Paniak)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 21:40:04 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Gnome statistics: Redhat 16 - Canonical 1?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=sFeHEeE3uRqHrUhP+56K2RZDDwBecVuxmf7em@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=sFeHEeE3uRqHrUhP+56K2RZDDwBecVuxmf7em@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1280713204.2029.211.camel@callisto>

On Sun, 2010-08-01 at 21:12 -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> Some Gnome statistics were published, and some are spinning it 
> as "Redhat contributes 16 to 1 more than Canonical".
> 
> For example: ex-Community manager for Redhat:
> 
> http://gregdekspeaks.wordpress.com/2010/07/29/red-hat-16-canonical-1/
> 
> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/08/01/0326208/First-GNOME-Census-Results
> 
> I find reducing "contribution" to being defined by amount of patches
> or lines
> of code to be at least myopic and/or biased.
> 
> Redhat exited the consumer desktop market a long time ago, and Ubuntu
> filled in that void. They package and polish existing software into a
> good
> product, and built a community around it. That is their contribution,
> not just
> code ...
> 
> No wonder Mark Shuttleworth decries Tribalism
> 
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/07/30/1855203/Tribalism-Is-the-Enemy-Within-Says-Shuttleworth
> 
> This the first time that notice unhealthy rivalry between Canonical
> and Redhat,
> or has this been going on for a long time. If it is recent, what
> triggered it?
> -- 
> Khalid M. Baheyeldin

Ha!  That's funny.  I wonder what member of the weasel family urinated
in the ex-RH'ers coffee that morning?

Seriously, looking at the stats, I see volunteers and unknown doing 40%
of the commits.  If you want to go by that (poor) measure, none of the
for-profit crowd has anything to talk about lest they want to called out
for riding community coattails.  My question is how many of the 40% are
Debian/deb people aka Ubuntu backend?

Maybe Debian and family have twice the commits of RH?
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From rashkae at tigershaunt.com  Sun Aug  1 21:54:17 2010
From: rashkae at tigershaunt.com (Rashkae)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 21:54:17 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Gnome statistics: Redhat 16 - Canonical 1?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=sFeHEeE3uRqHrUhP+56K2RZDDwBecVuxmf7em@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=sFeHEeE3uRqHrUhP+56K2RZDDwBecVuxmf7em@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C562549.3020100@tigershaunt.com>

Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:

> 
> No wonder Mark Shuttleworth decries Tribalism
> 
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/07/30/1855203/Tribalism-Is-the-Enemy-Within-Says-Shuttleworth
> 
> This the first time that notice unhealthy rivalry between Canonical and
> Redhat,
> or has this been going on for a long time. If it is recent, what triggered
> it?
> 

I'm going to regret sticking my nose into this one, I'm sure.

I'm too lazy to google the link, but there was a thread not so long ago 
where Mark Shuttleworth accuses RedHat of behaving like any other 
proprietary software company because the officially supported version of 
'Red Hat' is not free as in beer.  (never mind that CentOS is 
practically identical to fill that void.)  He ruffled some feathers with 
the comment but refused to back down, essentially calling Red Hat the 
Microsoft of Linux.  Fast forward to present day, with these new 
statistics turning the heat towards Canonical, and suddenly, he's high 
minded and decrying tribalism.....

Don't get me wrong... I love Ubuntu and what Canonical has done... but I 
think that for all his success, Mark would better represent the 
community by putting a sock in it.




From kb at 2bits.com  Sun Aug  1 22:16:09 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 22:16:09 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Gnome statistics: Redhat 16 - Canonical 1?
In-Reply-To: <4C562549.3020100@tigershaunt.com>
References: <AANLkTi=sFeHEeE3uRqHrUhP+56K2RZDDwBecVuxmf7em@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C562549.3020100@tigershaunt.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=1Cm5aUq860+VaJyxKv5-odXJ-tyUmsehOdNJH@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Rashkae <rashkae at tigershaunt.com> wrote:

> Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
>
>
>> No wonder Mark Shuttleworth decries Tribalism
>>
>>
>> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/07/30/1855203/Tribalism-Is-the-Enemy-Within-Says-Shuttleworth
>>
>> This the first time that notice unhealthy rivalry between Canonical and
>> Redhat,
>> or has this been going on for a long time. If it is recent, what triggered
>> it?
>>
>>
> I'm going to regret sticking my nose into this one, I'm sure.
>
> I'm too lazy to google the link, but there was a thread not so long ago
> where Mark Shuttleworth accuses RedHat of behaving like any other
> proprietary software company


The link by the ex-Redhat guy ended on this note:

"Which probably explains why Red Hat has a billion dollars of cash in the
bank <http://ostatic.com/blog/yet-another-robust-quarter-for-red-hat>, while
Canonical is still continually reinventing itself to make any profits
at all<http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/68923.html?wlc=1280379958>
."

He is measuring success/impact by financial figures only, even though he was
a community manager and understands that community-cred counts for much in
the FOSS worlds. There is also marketing to an audience (consumer desktop)
that Redhat abandoned a long time ago.

I would not have bothered with knowing the Debian way, had it not been for
Ubuntu (both desktop and server).

because the officially supported version of 'Red Hat' is not free as in
> beer.  (never mind that CentOS is practically identical to fill that void.)
>  He ruffled some feathers with the comment but refused to back down,
> essentially calling Red Hat the Microsoft of Linux.  Fast forward to present
> day, with these new statistics turning the heat towards Canonical, and
> suddenly, he's high minded and decrying tribalism.....
>
> Don't get me wrong... I love Ubuntu and what Canonical has done... but I
> think that for all his success, Mark would better represent the community by
> putting a sock in it.
>

Seems there is a feud going on then ...

Does not matter much "who started it" (a la kindergarten), what matters is
that it should be toned down and become a rational debate, not a name
calling match ...
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sun Aug  1 22:56:15 2010
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 22:56:15 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] installing Ubuntu into /dev/sda9 ?
Message-ID: <20100802025615.GA3991@node1.opengeometry.net>

I'm trying to install Ubuntu 10.04 into /dev/sda9 (one of logical
partitions).  Problem is that I can't get Grub to install into
/dev/sda9.  If I install Grub to MBR, then Ubuntu boots fine.  But, I
specify /dev/sda9, then it looks like nothing gets installed there.

I really prefer to install any boot loader into "root" partition, and
each partition should be independent and not know what's on other
partitions.  I can do this with Fedora and OpenSUSE, both uses Grub.
But, not with Ubuntu, Mint, or MEPIS.

-- 
William




From rarsa at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  1 23:02:55 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 20:02:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Gnome statistics: Redhat 16 - Canonical 1?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=sFeHEeE3uRqHrUhP+56K2RZDDwBecVuxmf7em@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <798537.10798.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

-- On Sun, 8/1/10, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:
> Some Gnome statistics were published, and some are spinning it 
>as "Redhat contributes 16 to 1 more than Canonical".

A guy that no longer works at Red Hat rants and you consider it the official Red Hat position? 

Raul Suarez



Technology consultant

Software, Hardware and Practices

_________________

Twitter: rarsamx

http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 

An eclectic collection of random thoughts

--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:

From: Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com>
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Gnome statistics: Redhat 16 - Canonical 1?
To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
Received: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 9:12 PM

Some Gnome statistics were published, and some are spinning it 
as "Redhat contributes 16 to 1 more than Canonical".

For example: ex-Community manager for Redhat:

http://gregdekspeaks.wordpress.com/2010/07/29/red-hat-16-canonical-1/



http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/08/01/0326208/First-GNOME-Census-Results

I find reducing "contribution" to being defined by amount of patches or lines


of code to be at least myopic and/or biased.

Redhat exited the consumer desktop market a long time ago, and Ubuntu
filled in that void. They package and polish existing software into a good
product, and built a community around it. That is their contribution, not just


code ...

No wonder Mark Shuttleworth decries Tribalism

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/07/30/1855203/Tribalism-Is-the-Enemy-Within-Says-Shuttleworth



This the first time that notice unhealthy rivalry between Canonical and Redhat,
or has this been going on for a long time. If it is recent, what triggered it?
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.

http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --? Edsger W.Dijkstra

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --?? Leonardo da Vinci


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

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From richard at weait.com  Sun Aug  1 23:06:50 2010
From: richard at weait.com (Richard Weait)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:06:50 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Ignite night?
In-Reply-To: <20100801020542.GN7607@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <20100801020542.GN7607@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin-RgWpBVykPsWrsT3AK7hz9a2-nzkNoAAk9RXU@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> So Raul said that we should all consider giving Ignite talks, and
> Richard gave us an entertaing example of presenting KWLUG content in
> the format. Do we want to try an Ignite-style KWLUG meeting? If so
> then May 2011 looks like it is open. (Hopefully the fad will not be
> over by then.)
>
> In order to make this happen we need some brave people to pitch Ignite
> talks on topics relevant to the LUG. I think that 8-10 talks will be
> enough for a good meeting, although we can certainly add a few more
> slots if there is interest. (Bonus: the FLOSS fund announcement and
> Linux News portions of the meeting can be in Ignite format as well.)

I like.  The Ignite presentation was fun for me.  As a tip to other
presenters, it takes as many rehearsals but the rehearsals are only
five minutes long.


What about an additional Ignite-format event outside of the LUG?  For
LUGers to face the public.  Something like:

This Time, Let's Not Eat the Bones - A Night of Linux and Open Source,
in Easy Pieces
or
We're Open -  The Open Source, Open Data and Open Government World,
Presented for You.

Presenters from KW's thriving, productive and creative Free Software,
Open Source and Linux community provide introductions and insight to
the key topics in the field.

Doors open and networking
10 ignite talks
break and refreshments
10 ignite talks
Reception and networking

We would have to police ourselves carefully and prevent shameless
self-promotion.  No "about me / about my company" slides, for example.
 But if you speak effectively about a topic, you'll have a line-up
during the breaks.



From rarsa at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  1 23:07:55 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 20:07:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] installing Ubuntu into /dev/sda9 ?
In-Reply-To: <20100802025615.GA3991@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <61806.94499.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It may be due to those distribution using Grub 2, where the scripts scan partitions for other installed OSs to show them in the menu.

You may want to review the scripts under /etc/grub.d

Or go back to grub and edit the files manually.

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts


--- On Sun, 8/1/10, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> From: William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
> Subject: [kwlug-disc] installing Ubuntu into /dev/sda9 ?
> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> Received: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 10:56 PM
> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 10.04
> into /dev/sda9 (one of logical
> partitions).? Problem is that I can't get Grub to
> install into
> /dev/sda9.? If I install Grub to MBR, then Ubuntu
> boots fine.? But, I
> specify /dev/sda9, then it looks like nothing gets
> installed there.
> 
> I really prefer to install any boot loader into "root"
> partition, and
> each partition should be independent and not know what's on
> other
> partitions.? I can do this with Fedora and OpenSUSE,
> both uses Grub.
> But, not with Ubuntu, Mint, or MEPIS.
> 
> -- 
> William
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 





From kb at 2bits.com  Sun Aug  1 23:08:57 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:08:57 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Gnome statistics: Redhat 16 - Canonical 1?
In-Reply-To: <798537.10798.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <AANLkTi=sFeHEeE3uRqHrUhP+56K2RZDDwBecVuxmf7em@mail.gmail.com>
	<798537.10798.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=B8cfQdReN22FDFxSSo_AMVXuOCC2y=EKAvOtw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Raul Suarez <rarsa at yahoo.com> wrote:

> -- On *Sun, 8/1/10, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com>* wrote:
> > Some Gnome statistics were published, and some are spinning it
> >as "Redhat contributes 16 to 1 more than Canonical".
>
> A guy that no longer works at Red Hat rants and you consider it the
> official Red Hat position?
>

Who says anything about official?

The guy is Greg DeK. He speaks at many conferences. I heard him speak twice
at FOSS events. Was quite good actually. He made the same "9 Billion open
source company" point.

Is is just the measure of success/influence in market capitalization only
that astounds me, official or not.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From rarsa at yahoo.com  Sun Aug  1 23:13:47 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 20:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Gnome statistics: Redhat 16 - Canonical 1?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=B8cfQdReN22FDFxSSo_AMVXuOCC2y=EKAvOtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <120485.48866.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:
> The guy is Greg DeK. He speaks at many conferences. I heard him speak 
twice at 
> FOSS events. Was quite good actually. He made the same "9 
Billion open source 
> company" point.

At those conferences he may or may not be speaking as part of Red Hat. In this case, he clarifies that he no longer works for Red Hat and the rant has no relationship with them.

Besides, he added what seems to be a heart felted apology for the rant.

I think that taking this blog and extrapolating to a battle between Red Hat and Canonical is a bit extreme. 

(Unless of course I misread your original post and you didn't mean to imply that there is a battle brewing)

Raul Suarez



Technology consultant

Software, Hardware and Practices

_________________

Twitter: rarsamx

http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 

An eclectic collection of random thoughts


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From kb at 2bits.com  Sun Aug  1 23:22:20 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:22:20 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Gnome statistics: Redhat 16 - Canonical 1?
In-Reply-To: <120485.48866.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <AANLkTi=B8cfQdReN22FDFxSSo_AMVXuOCC2y=EKAvOtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<120485.48866.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik4aG2GikSEBAx2gtha6YAu9tuqZm+8kWRyjoK5@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 11:13 PM, Raul Suarez <rarsa at yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- On *Sun, 8/1/10, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com>* wrote:
> > The guy is Greg DeK. He speaks at many conferences. I heard him speak
> twice at
> > FOSS events. Was quite good actually. He made the same "9 Billion open
> source
> > company" point.
>
> At those conferences he may or may not be speaking as part of Red Hat. In
> this case, he clarifies that he no longer works for Red Hat and the rant has
> no relationship with them.
>
> Besides, he added what seems to be a heart felted apology for the rant.
>
> I think that taking this blog and extrapolating to a battle between Red Hat
> and Canonical is a bit extreme.
>
> (Unless of course I misread your original post and you didn't mean to imply
> that there is a battle brewing)


I was wondering if something was brewing and Rashkae partially answered that
saying Mark Shuttleworth kind of started it.

As for Greg DeK, he was THE community guy at Redhat, meaning he should know
better than anyone else that market capitalization is not everything. Market
capitalization many times means nothing for non-FOSS companies (Nortel or
DotCom era companies anyone)? This is specially true in FOSS where community
good will ensures a continues stream of contribution (everything from code,
documentation, peer support, marketing, buzz, ...etc.)
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From unsolicited at swiz.ca  Sun Aug  1 23:32:48 2010
From: unsolicited at swiz.ca (unsolicited)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:32:48 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Gnome statistics: Redhat 16 - Canonical 1?
In-Reply-To: <120485.48866.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <120485.48866.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C563C60.8020408@swiz.ca>

Raul Suarez wrote, On 08/01/2010 11:13 PM:
> --- On *Sun, 8/1/10, Khalid Baheyeldin /<kb at 2bits.com>/* wrote:
>  > The guy is Greg DeK. He speaks at many conferences. I heard him speak 
> twice at
>  > FOSS events. Was quite good actually. He made the same "9 Billion 
> open source
>  > company" point.
> 
> At those conferences he may or may not be speaking as part of Red Hat. 
> In this case, he clarifies that he no longer works for Red Hat and the 
> rant has no relationship with them.
> 
> Besides, he added what seems to be a heart felted apology for the rant.
> 
> I think that taking this blog and extrapolating to a battle between Red 
> Hat and Canonical is a bit extreme.
> 
> (Unless of course I misread your original post and you didn't mean to 
> imply that there is a battle brewing)

He was asking. (As in, "Did I miss something?")

Official or not, I take Khalid's point - we need another KDE vs. Gnome 
like episodic soap opera tirade like we need another ... <pick your 
favourite phrase>

Or, to paraphrase ... Why can't we all just get along. (And just focus 
on coordinated attempts to kill 'everyman' proprietary software. Oops 
- did that slip out loud?)



From unsolicited at swiz.ca  Sun Aug  1 23:37:19 2010
From: unsolicited at swiz.ca (unsolicited)
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:37:19 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] installing Ubuntu into /dev/sda9 ?
In-Reply-To: <20100802025615.GA3991@node1.opengeometry.net>
References: <20100802025615.GA3991@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <4C563D6F.2080205@swiz.ca>

William Park wrote, On 08/01/2010 10:56 PM:
> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 10.04 into /dev/sda9 (one of logical
> partitions).  Problem is that I can't get Grub to install into
> /dev/sda9.  If I install Grub to MBR, then Ubuntu boots fine.  But, I
> specify /dev/sda9, then it looks like nothing gets installed there.
> 
> I really prefer to install any boot loader into "root" partition, and
> each partition should be independent and not know what's on other
> partitions.  I can do this with Fedora and OpenSUSE, both uses Grub.
> But, not with Ubuntu, Mint, or MEPIS.

Are you saying if you try this with Fedora or OpenSUSE this is working 
for you?

i.e. If so, this isn't a hardware issue. Hmmm. (I've seen cases where 
you have to do this as MBR no longer works. i.e. Beginning of the disk 
was shot, but rest of it was OK.)

IIRC, you're supposed to be able to do what you're trying to do.

Is it only sda9 / that disk it's doing this on? Can you swap a couple 
disks or something? (See that the problem doesn't follow the hardware?)



From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sun Aug  1 23:42:14 2010
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:42:14 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] installing Ubuntu into /dev/sda9 ?
In-Reply-To: <61806.94499.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20100802025615.GA3991@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<61806.94499.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100802034214.GA4179@node1.opengeometry.net>

I looked at the scripts, and I do see correct "hd(0,9)" and no
references to any other partition.  So, I did
    grub-install --force /dev/sda9
where '--force' was recommended by Grub when I tried without the option.
No error from the command, but nothing got installed into /dev/sda9.

This Ubuntu thing bothers me a lot.  From another thread, Ubuntu is the
one who's bitching about Redhat?  What if I install something to
/dev/sda10 later?  At least, I can install/boot Fedora from its own
logical partition.

-- 
William

On Sun, Aug 01, 2010 at 08:07:55PM -0700, Raul Suarez wrote:
> It may be due to those distribution using Grub 2, where the scripts
> scan partitions for other installed OSs to show them in the menu.
> 
> You may want to review the scripts under /etc/grub.d
> 
> Or go back to grub and edit the files manually.
> 
> Raul Suarez
>
> > From: William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
> > Subject: [kwlug-disc] installing Ubuntu into /dev/sda9 ?
> > To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > Received: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 10:56 PM
> > I'm trying to install Ubuntu 10.04 into /dev/sda9 (one of logical
> > partitions).? Problem is that I can't get Grub to install into
> > /dev/sda9.? If I install Grub to MBR, then Ubuntu boots fine.?
> > But, I specify /dev/sda9, then it looks like nothing gets installed
> > there.
> > 
> > I really prefer to install any boot loader into "root" partition,
> > and each partition should be independent and not know what's on
> > other partitions.? I can do this with Fedora and OpenSUSE, both
> > uses Grub.  But, not with Ubuntu, Mint, or MEPIS.
> > -- 
> > William




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sun Aug  1 23:54:13 2010
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 23:54:13 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] installing Ubuntu into /dev/sda9 ?
In-Reply-To: <4C563D6F.2080205@swiz.ca>
References: <20100802025615.GA3991@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<4C563D6F.2080205@swiz.ca>
Message-ID: <20100802035413.GA4204@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sun, Aug 01, 2010 at 11:37:19PM -0400, unsolicited wrote:
> William Park wrote, On 08/01/2010 10:56 PM:
> >I'm trying to install Ubuntu 10.04 into /dev/sda9 (one of logical
> >partitions).  Problem is that I can't get Grub to install into
> >/dev/sda9.  If I install Grub to MBR, then Ubuntu boots fine.  But, I
> >specify /dev/sda9, then it looks like nothing gets installed there.
> >
> >I really prefer to install any boot loader into "root" partition, and
> >each partition should be independent and not know what's on other
> >partitions.  I can do this with Fedora and OpenSUSE, both uses Grub.
> >But, not with Ubuntu, Mint, or MEPIS.
> 
> Are you saying if you try this with Fedora or OpenSUSE this is working 
> for you?
> 
> i.e. If so, this isn't a hardware issue. Hmmm. (I've seen cases where 
> you have to do this as MBR no longer works. i.e. Beginning of the disk 
> was shot, but rest of it was OK.)
> 
> IIRC, you're supposed to be able to do what you're trying to do.
> 
> Is it only sda9 / that disk it's doing this on? Can you swap a couple 
> disks or something? (See that the problem doesn't follow the hardware?)

I thought it was SATA driver issue, since Centos 5.5 complains about 24
partitions in /dev/sda.  So, I installed Slackware into /dev/sda9, and
no problem.  It did complain about "more than 16 partitions" while
installing LILO within install environment, but no complaints installing
LILO within full OS environment.

I'm just wandering, may be I'm the only one stupid enough to install
various Linux distros into logical partitions of /dev/sda. :-(

-- 
William




From bjonkman at sobac.com  Mon Aug  2 03:18:55 2010
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 03:18:55 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] DuckDuckGo.com -- an alternate search engine
In-Reply-To: <20100728075405.GB11247@foursquare.net>
References: <AANLkTi=MESc261bm-JbCGRU2CHVWM4dW4RDhmdMT=P7V@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C4F6496.3010203@ubuntu.com> <4C4F6B6C.40405@swiz.ca>
	<201007272115.58471.txwikinger@ubuntu.com>
	<20100728075405.GB11247@foursquare.net>
Message-ID: <1280733535.3616.15.camel@niven-lucidlynx>

On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 03:54 -0400, Chris Frey wrote: 

> It's a whole lot more complicated to check that every permutation of
> legal Javascript code is safe.

Speaking of Turing, I'll bet that checking that every permutation of
legal Javascript code to see if it is safe is equivalent to the Halting
Problem -- impossible to determine.

And so instead of running an 'IsItSafe' plugin I run a 'NoScript' plugin
which saves me an infinite amount of time.

--Bob.


On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 03:54 -0400, Chris Frey wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 09:15:57PM -0400, Ralph Janke wrote:
> > Well, it still does not explain why networking is ok, but Javascript is not. 
> > Javascript is not the only security issue exposed in networking.
> > 
> > Hence: Javascript in and of itself should not be bad! :)
> 
> Not necessarily bad, just more risky.
> 
> To me, there is a world of difference between TCP/IP and Javascript.
> The one is data interpreted by known code.  The other is unknown code
> interpreting unknown data.
> 
> By "unknown" I mean that the data and the code is not something I've
> vetted before it hits my browser.
> 
> Secure code treats data as an untrusted payload.  Something to be parsed
> and analyzed, where sizes and lengths are double checked at all times,
> etc.  The data might indicate some action to be taken, but it is the code
> that is already on my system, installed by known means, that does the
> work.
> 
> Javascript pushes that a little too far for my liking.  Yes, it is data,
> but it is data in the form of Turing complete code.  It is one thing to
> double check that the TCP header size field is correct.  It's a whole
> lot more complicated to check that every permutation of legal Javascript
> code is safe.
> 
> I'm not saying it's impossible, just that the level of difficulty is
> orders of magnitude higher, and therefore so is the risk.
> 
> It's not just Javascript.  Whenever programmable content is added to pure
> data, there's more risk: VB script in Word documents, ActiveX controls,
> Flash games, rm commands in man pages, embedded SQL in application code,
> scripts in PDF files (Adobe has had its share of headaches with this), etc.
> 
> - Chris
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org

-- 

Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>         http://sobac.com/sobac/
SOBAC Microcomputer Services              Voice: +1-519-669-0388
6 James Street, Elmira ON  Canada  N3B 1L5  Cel: +1-519-635-9413
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting





From bjonkman at sobac.com  Mon Aug  2 04:52:36 2010
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 04:52:36 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] installing Ubuntu into /dev/sda9 ?
In-Reply-To: <20100802025615.GA3991@node1.opengeometry.net>
References: <20100802025615.GA3991@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <1280739156.3616.26.camel@niven-lucidlynx>

I was able to install Legacy GRUB (v 0.97) on extended partitions.  But
after a fresh install of Ubuntu 10.04 my hard drive was infected by
PC-GRUB (v 1.98), and that has only installed in primary partitions or
the MBR.

I have not (successfully) played with the PC-GRUB config files.  

On some older laptops PC-GRUB won't run at all, and so I've forced
Legacy GRUB on them.  One of those older laptops is new running Mint
LXDE with Legacy GRUB. Keep your 8.04 CDs for GRUB rescues!  On other,
newer computers I've just lived with the default PC-GRUB installation.
Ugly and complicated, but it seems to work.

--Bob.


On Sun, 2010-08-01 at 22:56 -0400, William Park wrote:
> I'm trying to install Ubuntu 10.04 into /dev/sda9 (one of logical
> partitions).  Problem is that I can't get Grub to install into
> /dev/sda9.  If I install Grub to MBR, then Ubuntu boots fine.  But, I
> specify /dev/sda9, then it looks like nothing gets installed there.
> 
> I really prefer to install any boot loader into "root" partition, and
> each partition should be independent and not know what's on other
> partitions.  I can do this with Fedora and OpenSUSE, both uses Grub.
> But, not with Ubuntu, Mint, or MEPIS.
> 

-- 

Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>         http://sobac.com/sobac/
SOBAC Microcomputer Services              Voice: +1-519-669-0388
6 James Street, Elmira ON  Canada  N3B 1L5  Cel: +1-519-635-9413
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting





From rarsa at yahoo.com  Mon Aug  2 11:31:31 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 08:31:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] installing Ubuntu into /dev/sda9 ?
In-Reply-To: <20100802035413.GA4204@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <678188.77272.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- On Sun, 8/1/10, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> I'm just wandering, may be I'm the only one stupid enough
> to install
> various Linux distros into logical partitions of /dev/sda.

Just out of curiosity: Why do you want each distro with it's own grub?

You can have various distros in their own partition with Grub in the MBR launching them. 

Why having a grub that launches another grub?

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts






From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Mon Aug  2 16:51:19 2010
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 16:51:19 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] installing Ubuntu into /dev/sda9 ?
In-Reply-To: <678188.77272.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20100802035413.GA4204@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<678188.77272.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100802205119.GA3748@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, Aug 02, 2010 at 08:31:31AM -0700, Raul Suarez wrote:
> --- On Sun, 8/1/10, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > I'm just wandering, may be I'm the only one stupid enough
> > to install various Linux distros into logical partitions of
> > /dev/sda.
> 
> Just out of curiosity: Why do you want each distro with it's own grub?
> 
> You can have various distros in their own partition with Grub in the MBR launching them. 
> 
> Why having a grub that launches another grub?

That means, if I want to try new releases, I have to boot Ubuntu and
re-run Grub afterwards each time.  This isn't an issue for "production",
since you would normally have one OS per harddisk.  But, for "testing",
it's just pain.

-- 
William




From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Mon Aug  2 21:54:03 2010
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 21:54:03 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] installing Ubuntu into /dev/sda9 ?
In-Reply-To: <20100802205119.GA3748@node1.opengeometry.net>
References: <20100802035413.GA4204@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<678188.77272.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20100802205119.GA3748@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20100803015403.GA12047@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 02, 2010 at 04:51:19PM -0400, William Park wrote:
> > 

> > You can have various distros in their own partition with Grub in
> > the MBR launching them. 
> > 
> > Why having a grub that launches another grub?
> 
> That means, if I want to try new releases, I have to boot Ubuntu and
> re-run Grub afterwards each time.  This isn't an issue for
> "production", since you would normally have one OS per harddisk.
> But, for "testing", it's just pain.

I take it that chrooting into the main partition (that controls grub)
and then running the grub update does not reduce the pain? It's
obviously not as nice as having things work the way you want, though.

- Paul

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Mon Aug  2 21:57:07 2010
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 21:57:07 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Ignite night?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin-RgWpBVykPsWrsT3AK7hz9a2-nzkNoAAk9RXU@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100801020542.GN7607@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>
	<AANLkTin-RgWpBVykPsWrsT3AK7hz9a2-nzkNoAAk9RXU@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100803015707.GB12047@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Aug 01, 2010 at 11:06:50PM -0400, Richard Weait wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> What about an additional Ignite-format event outside of the LUG?  For
> LUGers to face the public.  Something like:

How about figuring out whether we can make an Ignite night work within
the LUG structure first? If somebody wants to go through all the
additional work of organizing a separate event then that is fine, but
we could also just promote the regular KWLUG Ignite night more
heavily. If we are still meeting at SJK at that time then we would
have enough space for 100 people if we wanted. 

- Paul

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From kb at 2bits.com  Tue Aug  3 00:03:55 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 00:03:55 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] DuckDuckGo.com -- an alternate search engine
In-Reply-To: <1280733535.3616.15.camel@niven-lucidlynx>
References: <AANLkTi=MESc261bm-JbCGRU2CHVWM4dW4RDhmdMT=P7V@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C4F6496.3010203@ubuntu.com> <4C4F6B6C.40405@swiz.ca>
	<201007272115.58471.txwikinger@ubuntu.com>
	<20100728075405.GB11247@foursquare.net>
	<1280733535.3616.15.camel@niven-lucidlynx>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikM9bconf-946uwrtirtzZ1CAb+9nSc-FdLGRGN@mail.gmail.com>

Random quote from a random comment from a random person:

"... I really hate the present AJAXification of the entire web - it's no
longer possible
to fully surf websites on a 400MHz machine like the XO-1 without having to
turn
off Javascript and Flash

Javascript programmers are doing the very same thing that gave Flash a bad
name years ago: Bloat."

http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1739838&cid=33108256

Add to that the reasons I listed earlier in the thread:

   - It can slow down things significantly, because code is being executed
   browser side. Some code parses the entire DOM of the HTML document and do
   things with it. Some code polls remote servers constantly for information,
   ...etc.
   - It can be a vector for security attacks (Cross Site Scripting).
   - It can be a hindrance to accessibility.
   - It can be an obstacle to content getting properly indexed in search
   engines.

And the Firefox NoScript extension is staying enabled on my laptop ...
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From rarsa at yahoo.com  Tue Aug  3 09:35:06 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 06:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] DuckDuckGo.com -- an alternate search engine
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikM9bconf-946uwrtirtzZ1CAb+9nSc-FdLGRGN@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <717911.60994.qm@web30902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- On Tue, 8/3/10, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:
> "... I really hate the present AJAXification of the entire web - it's no 
longer possible> to fully surf websites on a 400MHz machine like the XO-1
 without having to turn> off Javascript and Flash.
I concur with the sentiment but my beef is even greater.
AJAX, when used properly can reduce the amount of traffic, make applications more usable over slow connections and in computers with limited resources.
Somehow MS turned AJAX into "let's throw the kitchen sink into our downloadable javascript" and bad developers decided to jump in.
Most of the time it is not the technology that's bad but the implementation by lazy (or ignorant) developers.
So, turning off Java seems to be the only option.
I would add that most of the unnecessary java/flash comes from ads, so using ad-block is another way of reducing the resource utilization while browsing.
Raul Suarez



Technology consultant

Software, Hardware and Practices

_________________

Twitter: rarsamx

http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 

An eclectic collection of random thoughts

--- On Tue, 8/3/10, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:

From: Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com>
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] DuckDuckGo.com -- an alternate search engine
To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
Received: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 12:03 AM

Random quote from a random comment from a random person:

"... I really hate the present AJAXification of the entire web - it's no 
longer possible 
to fully surf websites on a 400MHz machine like the XO-1
 without having to turn 
off Javascript and Flash 
 


Javascript programmers are doing the very same thing that gave Flash a bad name years ago: Bloat."

http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1739838&cid=33108256


Add to that the reasons I listed earlier in the thread:
It can slow down things significantly, because code is being 
executed browser side.  Some code parses the entire DOM of the HTML 
document and do things with it. Some code polls remote servers 
constantly for information, ...etc.

It can be a vector for security attacks (Cross Site Scripting).It can be a hindrance to accessibility.It can be an obstacle to content getting properly indexed in search engines.And the Firefox NoScript extension is staying enabled on my laptop ...

-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --? Edsger W.Dijkstra

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --?? Leonardo da Vinci


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http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org


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From dscassel at gmail.com  Tue Aug  3 10:26:36 2010
From: dscassel at gmail.com (Darcy Casselman)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 10:26:36 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Gnome statistics: Redhat 16 - Canonical 1?
In-Reply-To: <4C562549.3020100@tigershaunt.com>
References: <AANLkTi=sFeHEeE3uRqHrUhP+56K2RZDDwBecVuxmf7em@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C562549.3020100@tigershaunt.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinsGoXeGEaO3g6Vzg=yrCHhx=NxXPD41ff9opRe@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Rashkae <rashkae at tigershaunt.com> wrote:
> Don't get me wrong... I love Ubuntu and what Canonical has done... but I
> think that for all his success, Mark would better represent the community by
> putting a sock in it.

In general, he'd probably save us all some trouble.  There was the
"explaining to girls" comment last year as well.  At least he finally
apologized for that.

I can but sigh and shake my head.  Greg DeK's apologized and we're all
friends again.

http://gregdekspeaks.wordpress.com/2010/08/01/old-wounds/

Darcy.



From liberosec at yahoo.ca  Tue Aug  3 15:46:17 2010
From: liberosec at yahoo.ca (Fernando Duran)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:46:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] DuckDuckGo.com -- an alternate search engine
In-Reply-To: <4C51E652.5040804@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=MESc261bm-JbCGRU2CHVWM4dW4RDhmdMT=P7V@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100727033801.GA28052@foursquare.net>
	<4C4F0A33.2030003@ubuntu.com> <1280325406-sup-3722@gerlach.ca>
	<628668.47020.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
	<4C51E652.5040804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <620394.24051.qm@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Hi,

It's JavaScript so the source code for the trick is available in the page. As 
it's been said it's based on the browser's capability to know the sites you've 
visited before (same as when it changes the colour of a visited link). I just 
took somebody's (open source) code and added some of the most common Canadian 
web sites.

There's no  privacy issue I can think of unless someone could correlate for 
example the visitor's IP address with an identity. In any case the information 
of what's our bank is so easy to get by traditional means that we can consider 
it public.

There's also no direct security issue with the JS trick although it could be 
used in some sort of "spear-phishing" to convince a potential victim in a 
malicious web page (where it's detected he uses bank X) to click on a false page 
resembling X to get his login information.
 ---------------------
Fernando Duran
http://www.fduran.com



----- Original Message ----
> From: Johnny Ferguson <hyperflexed at gmail.com>
> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> Sent: Thu, July 29, 2010 4:36:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] DuckDuckGo.com -- an alternate search engine
> 
> On 07/28/2010 11:12 AM, Fernando Duran wrote:
> >
> >
> > -----  Original Message ----
> >> From: Eric Gerlach<eric+kwlug at gerlach.ca>
> >  ...
> >>
> >> Attack #1: Using existing  logins
> >>
> >> - You're logged into  a site you care about  (let's say your bank, or
> >>    launchpad)
> >> -   Malicious Javascript looks through your history (yes, it can do  this)
> >>     to find recently visited sites that it knows  about
> >
> >
> > Just tooting my own horn: detecting browser's  history is very easy to do, 
we
> > implemented it in http://watsec.com/myip
> >
> 
> How is this accomplished? I'm rather  disgusted that enabling js can let 
> people know who my bank  is.
> 
> -Johnny
> 
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Fernando
> > http://fduran.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc_kwlug.org  mailing list
> > kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> > http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org  mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 






From richard at weait.com  Tue Aug  3 18:39:02 2010
From: richard at weait.com (Richard Weait)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:39:02 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] GPL upheld in court again.
Message-ID: <AANLkTikwugG2qHXtjww=YPqOi0whUFRvT+BZY6P+_uwV@mail.gmail.com>

ho hum.  Just another GPL violator having their errors pointed out to
them in court.  It would have been much less painful to print a
reference to the GPL in the user manual and offer a link to download
the source.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20100803132055210

"Judge Shira Scheindlin of the Southern District of New York has now
granted Software Freedom Conservancy, a wing  of Software Freedom Law
Center, triple damages ($90,000) for willful copyright infringement,
lawyer's fees and costs ($47,865), an injunction against Westinghouse,
and an order requiring Westinghouse to turn over all infringing
equipment in its possession to the plaintiffs, to be donated to
charity. So, presumably a lot of high-def TVs are on their way to
charities. "



From ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com  Tue Aug  3 18:54:20 2010
From: ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com (Lori Paniak)
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 18:54:20 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] GPL upheld in court again.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikwugG2qHXtjww=YPqOi0whUFRvT+BZY6P+_uwV@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTikwugG2qHXtjww=YPqOi0whUFRvT+BZY6P+_uwV@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1280876060.8148.11.camel@callisto>

On Tue, 2010-08-03 at 18:39 -0400, Richard Weait wrote:
> ho hum.  Just another GPL violator having their errors pointed out to
> them in court.  It would have been much less painful to print a
> reference to the GPL in the user manual and offer a link to download
> the source.
> 
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20100803132055210
> 
> "Judge Shira Scheindlin of the Southern District of New York has now
> granted Software Freedom Conservancy, a wing  of Software Freedom Law
> Center, triple damages ($90,000) for willful copyright infringement,
> lawyer's fees and costs ($47,865), an injunction against Westinghouse,
> and an order requiring Westinghouse to turn over all infringing
> equipment in its possession to the plaintiffs, to be donated to
> charity. So, presumably a lot of high-def TVs are on their way to
> charities. "
> 

Ouch.  HD for all the soup kitchens in the Bronx!  Thanks Westinghouse.

I enjoy reading the GPL stanzas in the back of my LG TV's manual.

What is all this talk of GPL being untested in court?  



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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Tue Aug  3 20:05:57 2010
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 20:05:57 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] installing Ubuntu into /dev/sda9 ?
In-Reply-To: <20100803015403.GA12047@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <20100802035413.GA4204@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<678188.77272.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20100802205119.GA3748@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<20100803015403.GA12047@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20100804000557.GA3957@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, Aug 02, 2010 at 09:54:03PM -0400, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> > > You can have various distros in their own partition with Grub in
> > > the MBR launching them. 
> > > 
> > > Why having a grub that launches another grub?
> > 
> > That means, if I want to try new releases, I have to boot Ubuntu and
> > re-run Grub afterwards each time.  This isn't an issue for
> > "production", since you would normally have one OS per harddisk.
> > But, for "testing", it's just pain.
> 
> I take it that chrooting into the main partition (that controls grub)
> and then running the grub update does not reduce the pain? It's
> obviously not as nice as having things work the way you want, though.
> 
> - Paul

Well, if you had to
    1. boot into one of standard Linux,
    2. mount Ubuntu partition,
    3. bind /dev, /proc, /sys under Ubuntu mount point,
    4. chroot,
    5. run Grub,
    6. umount in reverse,
    7. reboot
every time MBR is "overwritten", wouldn't you call it pain?  There is
VM, but VM is for application.  It cannot test how the latest Ubuntu
handles new wireless card, new graphic card, or new RAID card etc.

-- 
William




From kb at 2bits.com  Tue Aug  3 22:24:04 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 22:24:04 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] anyone with a cheap scope for sale?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1007160742520.19484@lynx>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1007160742520.19484@lynx>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=r=++zBh5fiNib27zdESjxd-vn7FzeLm_q8K4s@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 7:44 AM, Robert P. J. Day <rpjday at crashcourse.ca>wrote:

>
>  apparently, while it's not critically important, it might be handy
> for me to get a cheap scope for some embedded debugging.  anyone out
> there have one they're not using anymore?  i know precious little
> about scopes so i couldn't even judge whether something is decent or
> not.
>
>  thoughts?
>

http://ask.slashdot.org/story/10/08/03/2331257/Oscilloscopes-For-Modern-Engineers
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From 3lucid at gmail.com  Wed Aug  4 09:03:48 2010
From: 3lucid at gmail.com (Kyle Spaans)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 09:03:48 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] anyone with a cheap scope for sale?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=r=++zBh5fiNib27zdESjxd-vn7FzeLm_q8K4s@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1007160742520.19484@lynx>
	<AANLkTi=r=++zBh5fiNib27zdESjxd-vn7FzeLm_q8K4s@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik8vP1xj9dS26UdsR9CJQYrjw9s8twfGiMu6jqX@mail.gmail.com>

I was at Creatron Inc. (a really nice electronics store) here in
Toronto on Monday and they had a $99 'scope. I forget the brand name,
but it looked more like an MP3 player: hand-sized with a large LED
screen that displays the waveform. Could that be the style of scope
you're looking for? If so, I'll go back and get you the exact name.



From zixiekat at gmail.com  Wed Aug  4 13:25:13 2010
From: zixiekat at gmail.com (Colin Mackay)
Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2010 13:25:13 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Zoneminder
Message-ID: <AANLkTimfG39Jffdr2HA5wccgHkx21SDstZTwBdOxFC9H@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone in the list ever used Zoneminder?  I'm wondering what kind
of hardware you are running (computer specs, cameras, capture cards).
I'm looking to start dabbling in it, but I'd need to purchase a camera
and I was hoping to be able to get it locally and not have to order it
online.

Any recommendations?



From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Fri Aug  6 16:00:25 2010
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 13:00:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Test 1
Message-ID: <807415.39482.qm@web57605.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

I have gotten a report that the discussion list may not be working right. This message is to see whether the list is broken or just being quiet. 

- Paul





From rpjday at crashcourse.ca  Fri Aug  6 16:14:43 2010
From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 16:14:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] companies slowly waking up to the value of open source
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1008061613070.10866@lynx>


  good friend of mine, cheryl mckinnon, and her recent observation on
an accenture market survey showing that companies are taking open
source increasingly seriously:

http://blogs.nuxeo.com/cmckinnon/2010/08/quality-reliability-and-speed-accenture-on-open-source-adoption-trends.html

rday

-- 

========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day                               Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

        Top-notch, inexpensive online Linux/OSS/kernel courses
                        http://crashcourse.ca

Twitter:                                       http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn:                               http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
========================================================================



From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Fri Aug  6 16:17:21 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 16:17:21 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Test 1
In-Reply-To: <807415.39482.qm@web57605.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <807415.39482.qm@web57605.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100806201721.GA18176@foursquare.net>

On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 01:00:25PM -0700, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> I have gotten a report that the discussion list may not be working
> right. This message is to see whether the list is broken or just being
> quiet.

Test 2.

- Chris




From rarsa at yahoo.com  Fri Aug  6 17:59:30 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2010 14:59:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Test 1
In-Reply-To: <807415.39482.qm@web57605.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <897778.69460.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I got it

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts


--- On Fri, 8/6/10, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> From: Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>
> Subject: [kwlug-disc] Test 1
> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> Received: Friday, August 6, 2010, 4:00 PM
> I have gotten a report that the
> discussion list may not be working right. This message is to
> see whether the list is broken or just being quiet. 
> 
> - Paul
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 





From chris at chrisirwin.ca  Fri Aug  6 18:43:18 2010
From: chris at chrisirwin.ca (Chris Irwin)
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2010 18:43:18 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Test 1
In-Reply-To: <807415.39482.qm@web57605.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <807415.39482.qm@web57605.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1281134598.9444.0.camel@Thinkpad>

On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 13:00 -0700, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> I have gotten a report that the discussion list may not be working right. This message is to see whether the list is broken or just being quiet. 

I didn't get this mail.

/me snickers and scurries away

-- 
Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Sat Aug  7 16:06:05 2010
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 16:06:05 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Test 1
In-Reply-To: <1281134598.9444.0.camel@Thinkpad>
References: <807415.39482.qm@web57605.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
	<1281134598.9444.0.camel@Thinkpad>
Message-ID: <20100807200605.GD13689@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 06:43:18PM -0400, Chris Irwin wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 13:00 -0700, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> > I have gotten a report that the discussion list may not be working right. This message is to see whether the list is broken or just being quiet. 
> 
> I didn't get this mail.
> 
> /me snickers and scurries away

On a more serious note, it looks as if some mails may have disappeared
into the ether(net). If you sent something since Wednesday and it has
not appeared on the list then it may have disappeared, and you need to
resend. 

I don't know exactly what happened or what the cause is. 

- Paul

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From wmat at naoi.ca  Sun Aug  8 21:10:16 2010
From: wmat at naoi.ca (Bill Traynor)
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 21:10:16 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] anyone with a cheap scope for sale?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik8vP1xj9dS26UdsR9CJQYrjw9s8twfGiMu6jqX@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1007160742520.19484@lynx>	<AANLkTi=r=++zBh5fiNib27zdESjxd-vn7FzeLm_q8K4s@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik8vP1xj9dS26UdsR9CJQYrjw9s8twfGiMu6jqX@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C5F5578.5060308@naoi.ca>

On 8/4/10 9:03 AM, Kyle Spaans wrote:
> I was at Creatron Inc. (a really nice electronics store) here in
> Toronto on Monday and they had a $99 'scope. I forget the brand name,
> but it looked more like an MP3 player: hand-sized with a large LED
> screen that displays the waveform. Could that be the style of scope
> you're looking for? If so, I'll go back and get you the exact name.
>    

Is this the scope you saw:

http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/micro-digital-storage-oscilloscopedso-nano-p-512.html

It looks like a really interesting device.  A good review of the device 
can be found here:  
http://www.justblair.co.uk/seeed-studio-dso-nano-pocket-digital-storage-oscilloscope-review.html

> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>    




From jvj at golden.net  Mon Aug  9 01:15:44 2010
From: jvj at golden.net (John Johnson)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 01:15:44 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] anyone with a cheap scope for sale?
In-Reply-To: <4C5F5578.5060308@naoi.ca>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1007160742520.19484@lynx>
	<AANLkTi=r=++zBh5fiNib27zdESjxd-vn7FzeLm_q8K4s@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik8vP1xj9dS26UdsR9CJQYrjw9s8twfGiMu6jqX@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C5F5578.5060308@naoi.ca>
Message-ID: <201008090515.o795Fjt6027716@smtp2.execulink.net>

Interesting. But again be careful. Note the 1 MHz (1Msps) bandwidth.
IMHO There is an outside chance this device might work with signals 
with frequency components that max out at 100 kHz.
As the 5th harmonic of a 20 kHz digital clock signal is 100 kHz, this 
device is inadequate for all but some slow digital signals.
I note that the the review notes that this device is limited to audio 
applications.
JohnJ

At 21:10 2010-08-08, Bill Traynor  wrote:
>On 8/4/10 9:03 AM, Kyle Spaans wrote:
>>I was at Creatron Inc. (a really nice electronics store) here in
>>Toronto on Monday and they had a $99 'scope. I forget the brand name,
>>but it looked more like an MP3 player: hand-sized with a large LED
>>screen that displays the waveform. Could that be the style of scope
>>you're looking for? If so, I'll go back and get you the exact name.

>Is this the scope you saw:
>
>http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/micro-digital-storage-oscilloscopedso-nano-p-512.html
>
>It looks like a really interesting device.  A good review of the 
>device can be found here:
>http://www.justblair.co.uk/seeed-studio-dso-nano-pocket-digital-storage-oscilloscope-review.html




From 3lucid at gmail.com  Mon Aug  9 09:43:09 2010
From: 3lucid at gmail.com (Kyle Spaans)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 09:43:09 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] anyone with a cheap scope for sale?
In-Reply-To: <201008090515.o795Fjt6027716@smtp2.execulink.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1007160742520.19484@lynx>
	<AANLkTi=r=++zBh5fiNib27zdESjxd-vn7FzeLm_q8K4s@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik8vP1xj9dS26UdsR9CJQYrjw9s8twfGiMu6jqX@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C5F5578.5060308@naoi.ca>
	<201008090515.o795Fjt6027716@smtp2.execulink.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin2oi4v4TzUX9Q3ughFn9stBgTD=iZY25=kG4MO@mail.gmail.com>

Yes that's the one that I saw and now I see perhaps why it's so inexpensive. :)



From gcooke at insurancesquared.com  Mon Aug  9 18:40:44 2010
From: gcooke at insurancesquared.com (Insurance Squared Inc.)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 18:40:44 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Bright Ideas
Message-ID: <4C6083EC.5060106@insurancesquared.com>

If you wanted to send something to a oss developer in Europe, just 
something that says thanks for adding a feature, what would you send? 
:).  I've already sent cash and the feature's been added.  Something 
Canadian?  An amazon gift card?

g.




From wmat at naoi.ca  Mon Aug  9 19:00:22 2010
From: wmat at naoi.ca (Bill Traynor)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 19:00:22 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Bright Ideas
In-Reply-To: <4C6083EC.5060106@insurancesquared.com>
References: <4C6083EC.5060106@insurancesquared.com>
Message-ID: <4C608886.6080701@naoi.ca>

On 10-08-09 06:40 PM, Insurance Squared Inc. wrote:
> If you wanted to send something to a oss developer in Europe, just 
> something that says thanks for adding a feature, what would you send? 
> :).  I've already sent cash and the feature's been added.  Something 
> Canadian?  An amazon gift card?

Perhaps find out if they have a Wishlist on Amazon.

>
> g.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Mon Aug  9 20:53:40 2010
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 20:53:40 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Bright Ideas
In-Reply-To: <4C6083EC.5060106@insurancesquared.com>
References: <4C6083EC.5060106@insurancesquared.com>
Message-ID: <20100810005340.GA6140@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, Aug 09, 2010 at 06:40:44PM -0400, Insurance Squared Inc. wrote:
> If you wanted to send something to a oss developer in Europe, just 
> something that says thanks for adding a feature, what would you send? 
> :).  I've already sent cash and the feature's been added.  Something 
> Canadian?  An amazon gift card?

Single Malt Whisky or Maple Syrup.

-- 
William




From gcooke at insurancesquared.com  Mon Aug  9 21:12:22 2010
From: gcooke at insurancesquared.com (Insurance Squared Inc.)
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 21:12:22 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Bright Ideas
In-Reply-To: <20100810005340.GA6140@node1.opengeometry.net>
References: <4C6083EC.5060106@insurancesquared.com>
	<20100810005340.GA6140@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <4C60A776.1090309@insurancesquared.com>

lol. Well I don't drink enough to even know what that first one really 
is.  Can one send Maple syrup to Europe via mail without causing all 
sorts of headaches for the recipient re: customs?  And would someone in 
Europe identify maple syrup with canada?





On 09/08/10 08:53 PM, William Park wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 09, 2010 at 06:40:44PM -0400, Insurance Squared Inc. wrote:
>    
>> If you wanted to send something to a oss developer in Europe, just
>> something that says thanks for adding a feature, what would you send?
>> :).  I've already sent cash and the feature's been added.  Something
>> Canadian?  An amazon gift card?
>>      
> Single Malt Whisky or Maple Syrup.
>
>    




From john at netdirect.ca  Mon Aug  9 21:21:23 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 21:21:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Bright Ideas
Message-ID: <1cda201cb382a$5bd022a0$137067e0$@ca>

You can send it customs paid. It's possible with US shipments. It may be 
possible for the UK as well.


----- Original Message -----
From: kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org <kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org>
To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
Sent: Mon Aug 09 21:12:22 2010
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Bright Ideas

lol. Well I don't drink enough to even know what that first one really
is.  Can one send Maple syrup to Europe via mail without causing all
sorts of headaches for the recipient re: customs?  And would someone in
Europe identify maple syrup with canada?





On 09/08/10 08:53 PM, William Park wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 09, 2010 at 06:40:44PM -0400, Insurance Squared Inc. wrote:
>
>> If you wanted to send something to a oss developer in Europe, just
>> something that says thanks for adding a feature, what would you send?
>> :).  I've already sent cash and the feature's been added.  Something
>> Canadian?  An amazon gift card?
>>
> Single Malt Whisky or Maple Syrup.
>
>


_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org



From rarsa at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 10 02:50:21 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 23:50:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Programming for Linux : I've uploaded the presentation
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin-RgWpBVykPsWrsT3AK7hz9a2-nzkNoAAk9RXU@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3305.15588.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I've attached the presentation to the meeting agenda.

http://kwlug.org/node/697

You can download it as:
- a FreeMind file;
- a Flash File;
- Straight html.

Send your comments to the list. We may now have the conversation we didn't have time at the meeting.

I hope you enjoyed the presentation as much as I enjoyed preparing it; and that each one of you learned at least one thing you didn't know. I can tell you that now I know much more than when I proposed this presentation.

For example: This mind mapping software will be my next nomination for the FLOSS fund!

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts





From rarsa at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 10 02:52:14 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 23:52:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Ignite night?
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin-RgWpBVykPsWrsT3AK7hz9a2-nzkNoAAk9RXU@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <803368.15883.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If you are curious, the Ignite Waterloo 3 videos are now on-line.

http://www.ignitewaterloo.com/

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts


--- On Sun, 8/1/10, Richard Weait <richard at weait.com> wrote:

> From: Richard Weait <richard at weait.com>
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Ignite night?
> To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Received: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 11:06 PM
> On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 10:05 PM,
> Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
> >
> > So Raul said that we should all consider giving Ignite
> talks, and
> > Richard gave us an entertaing example of presenting
> KWLUG content in
> > the format. Do we want to try an Ignite-style KWLUG
> meeting? If so
> > then May 2011 looks like it is open. (Hopefully the
> fad will not be
> > over by then.)
> >
> > In order to make this happen we need some brave people
> to pitch Ignite
> > talks on topics relevant to the LUG. I think that 8-10
> talks will be
> > enough for a good meeting, although we can certainly
> add a few more
> > slots if there is interest. (Bonus: the FLOSS fund
> announcement and
> > Linux News portions of the meeting can be in Ignite
> format as well.)
> 
> I like.? The Ignite presentation was fun for me.?
> As a tip to other
> presenters, it takes as many rehearsals but the rehearsals
> are only
> five minutes long.
> 
> 
> What about an additional Ignite-format event outside of the
> LUG?? For
> LUGers to face the public.? Something like:
> 
> This Time, Let's Not Eat the Bones - A Night of Linux and
> Open Source,
> in Easy Pieces
> or
> We're Open -? The Open Source, Open Data and Open
> Government World,
> Presented for You.
> 
> Presenters from KW's thriving, productive and creative Free
> Software,
> Open Source and Linux community provide introductions and
> insight to
> the key topics in the field.
> 
> Doors open and networking
> 10 ignite talks
> break and refreshments
> 10 ignite talks
> Reception and networking
> 
> We would have to police ourselves carefully and prevent
> shameless
> self-promotion.? No "about me / about my company"
> slides, for example.
>  But if you speak effectively about a topic, you'll have a
> line-up
> during the breaks.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 





From richard at weait.com  Tue Aug 10 11:15:07 2010
From: richard at weait.com (Richard Weait)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:15:07 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Bright Ideas
In-Reply-To: <20100810005340.GA6140@node1.opengeometry.net>
References: <4C6083EC.5060106@insurancesquared.com>
	<20100810005340.GA6140@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimVq+k19WxnKUgRaRurg1tCiRBY48cJEAkjYdnf@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 8:53 PM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Single Malt Whisky or Maple Syrup.

Maple sugar candy will travel better, but even better is the maple
syrup hard candy that I found for the first time a few weeks back.
They were a big hit when I took them overseas.  Get 'em here.
http://www.unclerichards.com/



From kb at 2bits.com  Tue Aug 10 11:23:42 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:23:42 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Bright Ideas
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimVq+k19WxnKUgRaRurg1tCiRBY48cJEAkjYdnf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C6083EC.5060106@insurancesquared.com>
	<20100810005340.GA6140@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<AANLkTimVq+k19WxnKUgRaRurg1tCiRBY48cJEAkjYdnf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTiktHSD3hfjhv2X3NZ92y9EXVzq9Hr8jsFk8EG9y@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Richard Weait <richard at weait.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 8:53 PM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
> > Single Malt Whisky or Maple Syrup.
>
> Maple sugar candy will travel better, but even better is the maple
> syrup hard candy that I found for the first time a few weeks back.
> They were a big hit when I took them overseas.  Get 'em here.
> http://www.unclerichards.com/
>

If you visit the farmer's market (Waterloo or St Jacobs) you will find
maple syrup, maple candy, maple taffy (not really suitable for mailing).

I agree that the candy (the solid small ones made of sugar crystal ones
that look like tiny maple leaves) is the most suitable for travel ...

I took both Maple Syrup and Maple candy to Egypt. I like the distinct taste
of maple, but for some reason they did not appeal to Egyptian palates.

Your luck may be better than mine ...
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From wmat at naoi.ca  Wed Aug 11 08:07:58 2010
From: wmat at naoi.ca (Bill Traynor)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:07:58 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Multiple ISOBoot USB Key HOWTO
Message-ID: <4C62929E.70100@naoi.ca>

I thought I'd pass along this useful HOWTO. It "describes the process of 
creating a bootable USB key that has multiple ISO images on it. This is 
especially useful for testing. The ISOs are simply placed unaltered onto 
the USB stick and may be directly booted using grub's loopback support."

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Dev/MultipleISOBootUSBKey

Cheers
Bill
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From txwikinger at ubuntu.com  Wed Aug 11 08:55:50 2010
From: txwikinger at ubuntu.com (Ralph Janke)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:55:50 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Bright Ideas
In-Reply-To: <4C60A776.1090309@insurancesquared.com>
References: <4C6083EC.5060106@insurancesquared.com>	<20100810005340.GA6140@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<4C60A776.1090309@insurancesquared.com>
Message-ID: <4C629DD6.9060600@ubuntu.com>

Actually, You can buy real Canadian Maple Syrup cheaper in Europe than here.

On 08/09/2010 09:12 PM, Insurance Squared Inc. wrote:
> lol. Well I don't drink enough to even know what that first one really 
> is.  Can one send Maple syrup to Europe via mail without causing all 
> sorts of headaches for the recipient re: customs?  And would someone 
> in Europe identify maple syrup with canada?
>
>
>
>
>
> On 09/08/10 08:53 PM, William Park wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 09, 2010 at 06:40:44PM -0400, Insurance Squared Inc. wrote:
>>> If you wanted to send something to a oss developer in Europe, just
>>> something that says thanks for adding a feature, what would you send?
>>> :).  I've already sent cash and the feature's been added.  Something
>>> Canadian?  An amazon gift card?
>> Single Malt Whisky or Maple Syrup.
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From msavageca at yahoo.ca  Wed Aug 11 10:38:34 2010
From: msavageca at yahoo.ca (Michael Savage)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 07:38:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on programming 2 questions
Message-ID: <647094.93760.qm@web55102.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

1. I've dloaded the mindmap software, and will investigate it further. I tried 
to download the tgz file, but unzipping it only creates an empty mind map file. 
(Size 45 bytes) I'm using 7Z 64 bit on Windows 7 Home Premium machine. I am 
wondering if I'm doing somethin incorrectly.

2. Is there a way to set it up so it uses a default directory to store mind map 
files? I've looked in options, but I'm not seeing it.

(See I can count... Only 2 questions <vbg>)

TIA,
Mike






From rarsa at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 11 10:46:09 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 07:46:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on programming 2 questions
In-Reply-To: <647094.93760.qm@web55102.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <964809.10451.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It may be that the version of FreeMind that gets installed in Ubuntu Lucid is newer than the version currently being distributed for Windows. It may not know how to understand a newer version of the file.

The "stable" version you can download from the site is 8.1 and it is at least 3 years old.

Version 0.9 is still a release candidate but I can tell you that it worked quite well.

Get it from sourceforge directly.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/freemind/

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts


--- On Wed, 8/11/10, Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> From: Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca>
> Subject: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on programming 2 questions
> To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Received: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 10:38 AM
> 1. I've dloaded the mindmap software,
> and will investigate it further. I tried 
> to download the tgz file, but unzipping it only creates an
> empty mind map file. 
> (Size 45 bytes) I'm using 7Z 64 bit on Windows 7 Home
> Premium machine. I am 
> wondering if I'm doing somethin incorrectly.
> 
> 2. Is there a way to set it up so it uses a default
> directory to store mind map 
> files? I've looked in options, but I'm not seeing it.
> 
> (See I can count... Only 2 questions <vbg>)
> 
> TIA,
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 





From liberosec at yahoo.ca  Wed Aug 11 10:51:37 2010
From: liberosec at yahoo.ca (Fernando Duran)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 07:51:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Bright Ideas
In-Reply-To: <4C6083EC.5060106@insurancesquared.com>
References: <4C6083EC.5060106@insurancesquared.com>
Message-ID: <233700.63695.qm@web65406.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I suggest finding what the developer likes, like a hobby etc, perhaps asking 
directly or from web pages or friends.

Good default gifts for a geek are books, software and gadgets like the ones 
in http://www.thinkgeek.com

I would definitively not send alcohol since (s)he may not enjoy it and also 
there are special regulations in different countries regarding alcohol (for 
example in a 'religious fundamentalist' place like some US states, it's illegal 
to ship in even wine).

An idea is to avoid shipping, customs etc altogether and find something that can 
be sent online, like an eBook, software, game or other online service 
subscription, Amazon gift certificate etc. Besides this you can also send a 
postcard with some local/Canadian theme. 
 ---------------------
Fernando Duran
http://www.fduran.com



----- Original Message ----
> From: Insurance Squared Inc. <gcooke at insurancesquared.com>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 6:40:44 PM
> Subject: [kwlug-disc] Bright Ideas
> 
> If you wanted to send something to a oss developer in Europe, just something  
>that says thanks for adding a feature, what would you send? :).  I've  already 
>sent cash and the feature's been added.  Something Canadian?   An amazon gift  
>card?
> 
> g.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org  mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 






From msavageca at yahoo.ca  Wed Aug 11 11:00:47 2010
From: msavageca at yahoo.ca (Michael Savage)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 08:00:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on programming 2 questions
In-Reply-To: <964809.10451.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <964809.10451.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <348284.4983.qm@web55105.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Thank you... however, the unzipping of the tgz file, creates a 10K tar file. 
Trying to open that file does not work with either mind map or 7Z. Again, what 
have I forgotten? (The mm file is still 45 bytes)

Oops, more than 2 questions now...

TIA,
Mike




----- Original Message ----
From: Raul Suarez <rarsa at yahoo.com>
To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
Sent: Wed, August 11, 2010 10:46:09 AM
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on programming 2 questions

It may be that the version of FreeMind that gets installed in Ubuntu Lucid is 
newer than the version currently being distributed for Windows. It may not know 
how to understand a newer version of the file.

The "stable" version you can download from the site is 8.1 and it is at least 3 
years old.

Version 0.9 is still a release candidate but I can tell you that it worked quite 
well.

Get it from sourceforge directly.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/freemind/

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts


--- On Wed, 8/11/10, Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> From: Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca>
> Subject: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on programming 2 questions
> To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Received: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 10:38 AM
> 1. I've dloaded the mindmap software,
> and will investigate it further. I tried 
> to download the tgz file, but unzipping it only creates an
> empty mind map file. 
> (Size 45 bytes) I'm using 7Z 64 bit on Windows 7 Home
> Premium machine. I am 
> wondering if I'm doing somethin incorrectly.
> 
> 2. Is there a way to set it up so it uses a default
> directory to store mind map 
> files? I've looked in options, but I'm not seeing it.
> 
> (See I can count... Only 2 questions <vbg>)
> 
> TIA,
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 



_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org






From william.rieck at gmail.com  Wed Aug 11 11:15:24 2010
From: william.rieck at gmail.com (William Rieck)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:15:24 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on programming 2 questions
In-Reply-To: <348284.4983.qm@web55105.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <964809.10451.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<348284.4983.qm@web55105.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinH4VqqHDZyjUaGYHbq3ARQbjg2JObfFey7UGO5@mail.gmail.com>

I also have a 45 byte mm file that will not open. Raul It seems a little on
the small side?

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Thank you... however, the unzipping of the tgz file, creates a 10K tar
> file.
> Trying to open that file does not work with either mind map or 7Z. Again,
> what
> have I forgotten? (The mm file is still 45 bytes)
>
> Oops, more than 2 questions now...
>
> TIA,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
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From rarsa at yahoo.com  Wed Aug 11 13:14:41 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 10:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on programming 2 questions
In-Reply-To: <348284.4983.qm@web55105.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <862555.99705.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I just checked! I don't know what happened when I tar.gz'd it.

Please download the Flash version. when you extract it you will find a file called "map.mm" under the folder "Linux DevelopmentFlash.html_files"

You can open this file with FreeMind

I will fix the mm file when I get home.

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts


--- On Wed, 8/11/10, Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> From: Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca>
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on programming 2 questions
> To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Received: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 11:00 AM
> Thank you... however, the unzipping
> of the tgz file, creates a 10K tar file. 
> Trying to open that file does not work with either mind map
> or 7Z. Again, what 
> have I forgotten? (The mm file is still 45 bytes)
> 
> Oops, more than 2 questions now...
> 
> TIA,
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Raul Suarez <rarsa at yahoo.com>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Sent: Wed, August 11, 2010 10:46:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on
> programming 2 questions
> 
> It may be that the version of FreeMind that gets installed
> in Ubuntu Lucid is 
> newer than the version currently being distributed for
> Windows. It may not know 
> how to understand a newer version of the file.
> 
> The "stable" version you can download from the site is 8.1
> and it is at least 3 
> years old.
> 
> Version 0.9 is still a release candidate but I can tell you
> that it worked quite 
> well.
> 
> Get it from sourceforge directly.
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/freemind/
> 
> Raul Suarez
> 
> Technology consultant
> Software, Hardware and Practices
> _________________
> Twitter: rarsamx
> http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
> An eclectic collection of random thoughts
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca>
> > Subject: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on
> programming 2 questions
> > To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> > Received: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 10:38 AM
> > 1. I've dloaded the mindmap software,
> > and will investigate it further. I tried 
> > to download the tgz file, but unzipping it only
> creates an
> > empty mind map file. 
> > (Size 45 bytes) I'm using 7Z 64 bit on Windows 7 Home
> > Premium machine. I am 
> > wondering if I'm doing somethin incorrectly.
> > 
> > 2. Is there a way to set it up so it uses a default
> > directory to store mind map 
> > files? I've looked in options, but I'm not seeing it.
> > 
> > (See I can count... Only 2 questions <vbg>)
> > 
> > TIA,
> > Mike
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> > kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> > http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 





From msavageca at yahoo.ca  Wed Aug 11 14:02:19 2010
From: msavageca at yahoo.ca (Michael Savage)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:02:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on programming 2 questions
In-Reply-To: <862555.99705.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <862555.99705.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <232583.67041.qm@web55106.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Thank you for all of your help.
Mike



----- Original Message ----
From: Raul Suarez <rarsa at yahoo.com>
To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
Sent: Wed, August 11, 2010 1:14:41 PM
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on programming 2 questions

I just checked! I don't know what happened when I tar.gz'd it.

Please download the Flash version. when you extract it you will find a file 
called "map.mm" under the folder "Linux DevelopmentFlash.html_files"

You can open this file with FreeMind

I will fix the mm file when I get home.

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts


--- On Wed, 8/11/10, Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> From: Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca>
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on programming 2 questions
> To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Received: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 11:00 AM
> Thank you... however, the unzipping
> of the tgz file, creates a 10K tar file. 
> Trying to open that file does not work with either mind map
> or 7Z. Again, what 
> have I forgotten? (The mm file is still 45 bytes)
> 
> Oops, more than 2 questions now...
> 
> TIA,
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Raul Suarez <rarsa at yahoo.com>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Sent: Wed, August 11, 2010 10:46:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on
> programming 2 questions
> 
> It may be that the version of FreeMind that gets installed
> in Ubuntu Lucid is 
> newer than the version currently being distributed for
> Windows. It may not know 
> how to understand a newer version of the file.
> 
> The "stable" version you can download from the site is 8.1
> and it is at least 3 
> years old.
> 
> Version 0.9 is still a release candidate but I can tell you
> that it worked quite 
> well.
> 
> Get it from sourceforge directly.
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/freemind/
> 
> Raul Suarez
> 
> Technology consultant
> Software, Hardware and Practices
> _________________
> Twitter: rarsamx
> http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
> An eclectic collection of random thoughts
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 8/11/10, Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Michael Savage <msavageca at yahoo.ca>
> > Subject: [kwlug-disc] Raul's presentation on
> programming 2 questions
> > To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> > Received: Wednesday, August 11, 2010, 10:38 AM
> > 1. I've dloaded the mindmap software,
> > and will investigate it further. I tried 
> > to download the tgz file, but unzipping it only
> creates an
> > empty mind map file. 
> > (Size 45 bytes) I'm using 7Z 64 bit on Windows 7 Home
> > Premium machine. I am 
> > wondering if I'm doing somethin incorrectly.
> > 
> > 2. Is there a way to set it up so it uses a default
> > directory to store mind map 
> > files? I've looked in options, but I'm not seeing it.
> > 
> > (See I can count... Only 2 questions <vbg>)
> > 
> > TIA,
> > Mike
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> > kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> > http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 



_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org






From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Thu Aug 12 16:21:36 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:21:36 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] test
Message-ID: <20100812202136.GA7971@foursquare.net>

Testing the list to see if this gets through.

- Chris




From txwikinger at ubuntu.com  Thu Aug 12 16:34:45 2010
From: txwikinger at ubuntu.com (Ralph Janke)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:34:45 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] test
In-Reply-To: <20100812202136.GA7971@foursquare.net>
References: <20100812202136.GA7971@foursquare.net>
Message-ID: <4C645AE5.10604@ubuntu.com>

Will this go through?

On 08/12/2010 04:21 PM, Chris Frey wrote:
> Testing the list to see if this gets through.
>
> - Chris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>    




From txwikinger at ubuntu.com  Thu Aug 12 16:37:52 2010
From: txwikinger at ubuntu.com (Ralph Janke)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:37:52 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day 2010 (18 September 2010)
Message-ID: <4C645BA0.2030404@ubuntu.com>

Are there any plans yet for software freedom day this year? I have not 
found an event yet on http://cgi.softwarefreedomday.org/2010/map.shtml



From txwikinger at ubuntu.com  Thu Aug 12 16:42:59 2010
From: txwikinger at ubuntu.com (Ralph Janke)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:42:59 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] test
Message-ID: <4C645CD3.2020900@ubuntu.com>

testing if the mailinglist works



From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Thu Aug 12 16:49:53 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:49:53 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] kwlug.org using postini?
Message-ID: <20100812204953.GA9041@foursquare.net>

Hi,

I think I might know the source of some of the missing emails to the list.
Looking at the headers it appears that kwlug-disc is using Google's
Postini service, probably to block spam, etc.

In the past, I've had odd encounters with Gmail's spam blocking, which
can and does fail silently in some cases.  I'm assuming this could be
happening with Postini too.

There's probably a setting somewhere that will cause postini to fail
explicitly, and if this is possible, this would be better for the list,
if the admin can double check those settings.

Just my $0.02 technical guess. :-)

- Chris




From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Thu Aug 12 16:06:42 2010
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:06:42 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day 2010 (18 September 2010)
In-Reply-To: <4C645BA0.2030404@ubuntu.com>
References: <4C645BA0.2030404@ubuntu.com>
Message-ID: <20100812200642.GN13689@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 04:37:52PM -0400, Ralph Janke wrote:
> Are there any plans yet for software freedom day this year? I have not  
> found an event yet on http://cgi.softwarefreedomday.org/2010/map.shtml

This is the second time I got the message. I was too lazy to answer
the first time. 

Last year The Working Centre hosted an event for Software Freedom Day.
I will ask whether we are willing to do so again, but it won't happen
until next week.

Of course, if some other people want to host something then that would
be awesome too. Probably some of us from The Working Centre can help
out (but I should not make promises for others). 

- Paul


-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From webhost at kwlug.org  Thu Aug 12 18:02:18 2010
From: webhost at kwlug.org (webhost at kwlug.org)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:02:18 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux User Group new
	content notification: 2010-08-12 18:02
Message-ID: <E1Ojfqs-00036q-CJ@astoria.ccjclearline.com>

Greetings mail-forum-merge,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recent content - 2 new posts
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. KWLUG Meeting: Monday, April 4 2011
Published Meeting Agenda by pnijjar
[ http://kwlug.org/node/757 ]


---

2. OpenVPN
Published Presentation Topic by pnijjar
[ http://kwlug.org/node/758 ]

Lori Paniak will discuss the powerful OpenVPN [1] virtual private
network solution, which allows you to connect computers that are far
away physically into a secure virtual network.

[1] http://www.openvpn.net


-- 
This is an automatic e-mail from KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux
User Group.
To stop receiving these e-mails, change your notification preferences at
http://kwlug.org/user/28/notify




From rarsa at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 12 23:03:49 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:03:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Programming and books
Message-ID: <533151.77047.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I receive the electronic version of Dr Dobbs which organizes the Jolt awards in several categories.

This year there are two books in the list that I think I should mention. Although I haven't read them, the reviews seem to be good:

For the beginner programmer:
Hello World! Computer Programming for Kids and Other Beginners
http://www.amazon.ca/Hello-World-Computer-Programming-Beginners/dp/1933988495/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1281668547&sr=8-1

And if you've ever wondered why are there so many languages. What were the creators thinking, you may want to read:

Masterminds of Programming: Conversations with the Creators of Major Programming Languages
http://www.amazon.ca/Masterminds-Programming-Conversations-Creators-Languages/dp/0596515170/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1281668603&sr=1-1


Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts





From dscassel at gmail.com  Fri Aug 13 11:46:48 2010
From: dscassel at gmail.com (Darcy Casselman)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:46:48 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Central Art Walk
Message-ID: <AANLkTin5Mdrkj8tcroU7j60YXh5o6DMppVhnGatfcqBC@mail.gmail.com>

There's a studio tour in our neighbourhood October 23-24.

http://www.centralartwalk.com/

They may still be open to artists, if you want to call yourself an
artist and call Kwartzlab your studio.

Maya Polywjanyj in the Boehmer Box is participating.

I know one of the people behind it.  If there's interest, I can drop
him a line and see if he's interested in getting Kwartzlab involved.

Darcy.



From dscassel at gmail.com  Fri Aug 13 12:39:10 2010
From: dscassel at gmail.com (Darcy Casselman)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:39:10 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Central Art Walk
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin5Mdrkj8tcroU7j60YXh5o6DMppVhnGatfcqBC@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTin5Mdrkj8tcroU7j60YXh5o6DMppVhnGatfcqBC@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=fRU-g-scSkGWHfxZPLkRg61qmL4vFEtTkQjZr@mail.gmail.com>

Oops!  Sorry.  Wrong mailing list.  Auto-complete failed me.

Still, it looks cool if you want to check out some local artists...

(With any luck, none of these messages will get through. ^_^; )

Darcy.

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Darcy Casselman <dscassel at gmail.com> wrote:
> There's a studio tour in our neighbourhood October 23-24.
>
> http://www.centralartwalk.com/
>
> They may still be open to artists, if you want to call yourself an
> artist and call Kwartzlab your studio.
>
> Maya Polywjanyj in the Boehmer Box is participating.
>
> I know one of the people behind it. ?If there's interest, I can drop
> him a line and see if he's interested in getting Kwartzlab involved.
>
> Darcy.
>



From rarsa at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 14 12:20:42 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 09:20:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB Webcam curious behaviour
In-Reply-To: <4C4A62C6.4050102@tigershaunt.com>
Message-ID: <892449.32569.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Maybe someone with better knowledge of USB can shed some light here:

When I plug just the usb webcam it works, when I have the wireless mouse plugged it stops working.

I've created a blog post with the full detail to keep track of comments and suggestions

http://kwlug.org/node/759

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts





From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Sat Aug 14 14:17:21 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:17:21 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB Webcam curious behaviour
In-Reply-To: <892449.32569.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4C4A62C6.4050102@tigershaunt.com>
	<892449.32569.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20100814181721.GA15984@foursquare.net>

On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 09:20:42AM -0700, Raul Suarez wrote:
> When I plug just the usb webcam it works, when I have the wireless
> mouse plugged it stops working.

In addition to the plain lsusb output, try comparing 'lsusb -v' as well.
First without the mouse, then after you plug in the mouse.

Also check if there are kernel modules involved.  Does a module get loaded
when you plug it in, or does it just use a userspace library?  That might
help narrow down the problem, whether it is a kernel issue or a libusb
userspace issue.

And finally, you might try using usbmon to see where it stops.  Try using
the webcam without the mouse, and capture the log.  Then plug in the mouse
and try the same thing, and see where it hangs or fails.

- Chris




From pgallaway at gmail.com  Sat Aug 14 17:57:29 2010
From: pgallaway at gmail.com (Paul Gallaway)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:57:29 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB Webcam curious behaviour
In-Reply-To: <892449.32569.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <4C4A62C6.4050102@tigershaunt.com>
	<892449.32569.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikinQ-3Ktvo1TvXbu_9gUm7=XU-6y3qZqky4cx6@mail.gmail.com>

> When I plug just the usb webcam it works, when I have the wireless mouse plugged it stops working.

Dumb questions. If you plug-in the mouse first and then plug-in the
webcam does it work? Tried restarting udev?



From rarsa at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 14 23:19:24 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 20:19:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB Webcam curious behaviour
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikinQ-3Ktvo1TvXbu_9gUm7=XU-6y3qZqky4cx6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <742854.82047.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes to all those questions :)

Thank you,

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts


--- On Sat, 8/14/10, Paul Gallaway <pgallaway at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Paul Gallaway <pgallaway at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] USB Webcam curious behaviour
> To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Received: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 5:57 PM
> > When I plug just the usb webcam
> it works, when I have the wireless mouse plugged it stops
> working.
> 
> Dumb questions. If you plug-in the mouse first and then
> plug-in the
> webcam does it work? Tried restarting udev?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 





From chris at chrisirwin.ca  Sun Aug 15 14:14:26 2010
From: chris at chrisirwin.ca (Chris Irwin)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:14:26 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB Webcam curious behaviour
In-Reply-To: <892449.32569.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <892449.32569.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1281896066.22842.10.camel@Thinkpad>

On Sat, 2010-08-14 at 09:20 -0700, Raul Suarez wrote:
> When I plug just the usb webcam it works, when I have the wireless mouse plugged it stops working.

It could also be a power issue. From my limited understanding of USB
(and a quick check of wikipedia appears to confirm this), devices can
accept power in 1 to 5 units of 100mA, where 500mA is the maximum the
bus supports. So if your camera required higher power (say 4 or 5
units), and your wireless mouse dongle required enough power to push
them over the limit (say 2 units), there would be insufficient power to
run both.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Power

Usually USB ports are in pairs on the same bus. If you had four ports,
two would probably be on a separate bus, which should allow you to run
the devices together. Assuming it is a power issue.

-- 
Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
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From kb at 2bits.com  Sun Aug 15 14:20:26 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 14:20:26 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB Webcam curious behaviour
In-Reply-To: <1281896066.22842.10.camel@Thinkpad>
References: <892449.32569.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1281896066.22842.10.camel@Thinkpad>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinf6QU25AP7VwLzAsoZ=m4=1ySRREyYFm+gJgoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Here is a shot in the dark.

Anything fishy when doing "cat /proc/interrupts" with the various
combinations (the one that works vs. the one that does not?)
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From rarsa at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 15 18:04:34 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 15:04:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB Webcam curious behaviour
In-Reply-To: <1281896066.22842.10.camel@Thinkpad>
Message-ID: <42860.30325.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thank you,

That was the same advise as Bob's. I will try with a powered USB hub to see if it makes a difference.

Regards,

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts


--- On Sun, 8/15/10, Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca> wrote:

> From: Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] USB Webcam curious behaviour
> To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Received: Sunday, August 15, 2010, 2:14 PM
> On Sat, 2010-08-14 at 09:20 -0700,
> Raul Suarez wrote:
> > When I plug just the usb webcam it works, when I have
> the wireless mouse plugged it stops working.
> 
> It could also be a power issue. From my limited
> understanding of USB
> (and a quick check of wikipedia appears to confirm this),
> devices can
> accept power in 1 to 5 units of 100mA, where 500mA is the
> maximum the
> bus supports. So if your camera required higher power (say
> 4 or 5
> units), and your wireless mouse dongle required enough
> power to push
> them over the limit (say 2 units), there would be
> insufficient power to
> run both.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Power
> 
> Usually USB ports are in pairs on the same bus. If you had
> four ports,
> two would probably be on a separate bus, which should allow
> you to run
> the devices together. Assuming it is a power issue.
> 
> -- 
> Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 





From unsolicited at swiz.ca  Sun Aug 15 18:29:48 2010
From: unsolicited at swiz.ca (unsolicited)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:29:48 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB Webcam curious behaviour
In-Reply-To: <42860.30325.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <42860.30325.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4C686A5C.70203@swiz.ca>

Does anything change if you avoid the use of hubs entirely?

Raul Suarez wrote, On 08/15/2010 6:04 PM:
> Thank you,
> 
> That was the same advise as Bob's. I will try with a powered USB
> hub to see if it makes a difference.
> 
> --- On Sun, 8/15/10, Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca> wrote:
> 
>> From: Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc]
>> USB Webcam curious behaviour To: "KWLUG discussion"
>> <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> Received: Sunday, August 15, 2010, 2:14 PM
>>  On Sat, 2010-08-14 at 09:20 -0700, Raul Suarez wrote:
>>> When I plug just the usb webcam it works, when I have
>> the wireless mouse plugged it stops working.
>> 
>> It could also be a power issue. From my limited understanding of
>> USB (and a quick check of wikipedia appears to confirm this), 
>> devices can accept power in 1 to 5 units of 100mA, where 500mA is
>> the maximum the bus supports. So if your camera required higher
>> power (say 4 or 5 units), and your wireless mouse dongle required
>> enough power to push them over the limit (say 2 units), there
>> would be insufficient power to run both.
>> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Power
>> 
>> Usually USB ports are in pairs on the same bus. If you had four
>> ports, two would probably be on a separate bus, which should
>> allow you to run the devices together. Assuming it is a power
>> issue.



From rarsa at yahoo.com  Sun Aug 15 21:16:51 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 18:16:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB Webcam curious behaviour
In-Reply-To: <4C686A5C.70203@swiz.ca>
Message-ID: <377333.74442.qm@web30906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am not using external hubs

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts


--- On Sun, 8/15/10, unsolicited <unsolicited at swiz.ca> wrote:

> From: unsolicited <unsolicited at swiz.ca>
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] USB Webcam curious behaviour
> To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Received: Sunday, August 15, 2010, 6:29 PM
> Does anything change if you avoid the
> use of hubs entirely?
> 
> Raul Suarez wrote, On 08/15/2010 6:04 PM:
> > Thank you,
> > 
> > That was the same advise as Bob's. I will try with a
> powered USB
> > hub to see if it makes a difference.
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 8/15/10, Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc]
> >> USB Webcam curious behaviour To: "KWLUG
> discussion"
> >> <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Received: Sunday, August 15, 2010, 2:14 PM
> >>? On Sat, 2010-08-14 at 09:20 -0700, Raul
> Suarez wrote:
> >>> When I plug just the usb webcam it works, when
> I have
> >> the wireless mouse plugged it stops working.
> >> 
> >> It could also be a power issue. From my limited
> understanding of
> >> USB (and a quick check of wikipedia appears to
> confirm this), devices can accept power in 1 to 5 units of
> 100mA, where 500mA is
> >> the maximum the bus supports. So if your camera
> required higher
> >> power (say 4 or 5 units), and your wireless mouse
> dongle required
> >> enough power to push them over the limit (say 2
> units), there
> >> would be insufficient power to run both.
> >> 
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Serial_Bus#Power
> >> 
> >> Usually USB ports are in pairs on the same bus. If
> you had four
> >> ports, two would probably be on a separate bus,
> which should
> >> allow you to run the devices together. Assuming it
> is a power
> >> issue.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 





From webhost at kwlug.org  Mon Aug 16 21:02:40 2010
From: webhost at kwlug.org (webhost at kwlug.org)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:02:40 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux User Group new
	content notification: 2010-08-16 21:02
Message-ID: <E1OlAZc-0000ff-DW@astoria.ccjclearline.com>

Greetings mail-forum-merge,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recent content - 2 new posts
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. USB Webcam mistery under Ubuntu Lucid Linx
Published Blog entry by Raul Suarez
[ http://kwlug.org/node/759 ]

Maybe someone with better knowledge of USB can shed some light here:
I have an USB camera that I knew was working several Ubuntu versions
ago. But under Karmic and Lucid it refused to work.
I knew that it was listed as supported; but after hours trying things I
couldn't make it work.
Then I saw in a forum that someone said that as a final test he
disconnected the USB hub and plugged in the camera directly to the
computer. After that it worked, so he suspected the hub.
In my case I was connecting directly to the computer already so I
thought: "I'll try the other USB port" and the camera worked!!... For a
few minutes, then it stopped working.
So it occurred to me that the only difference was that when I switched
ports I had disconnected the USB wireless mouse.
I unplugged the mouse and voila! The camera started working under:
gstreamer-properties
cheese
ekiga
This is, everywhere, even Skype!
One clue could be that both devices (the camera and the mouse) are
Logitech so the top part of the ID is the same 046d:c50e
Bus 002 Device 006: ID 046d:c50e Logitech, Inc. MX-1000 Cordless Mouse
Receiver
Bus 002 Device 003: ID 046d:0870 Logitech, Inc. QuickCam Express
What else could it be the problem here?
Later I will try with this camera in a different computer and also with
different mouses.
Do you have any clues for me to investigate or provide better
information when reporting the issue?

---

2. Mandriva 2010 First impressions
Published Blog entry by Raul Suarez
[ http://kwlug.org/node/760 ]

A week ago someone at the KWLUG was talking about Mandriva, and I
mentioned that I never warmed up to it. 
That conversation left me intrigued so today I decided to give it a try
once again.
This will be a play by play impression while I go through the install.
Some of my comments may sound picky, but as first impressions count:
I'm all pumped up and ready to be wowed.
On inserting the disk I remembered why I hadn't been able to fully test
it: the DVD is not a live version. No live DVD. Why? Do I need to
download the CD to see if I like it and if I do then get the DVD?
-1
I decide to go with the DVD. After starting the installation, things
went smooth, until partition time. The installer took some time
analyzing if it could shrink Windows and offered me to use that space. I
guess it is a good assumption that most new users will have Windows
already installed and the people that already has Linux, will know how
to partition properly.
+1
I selected the advanced method. Selected my root partition and continued
installing until I got to a screen that asked me if I had other sources
to use. I selected HTTP to see if it would offer me additional packages,
but all that happened is that it asked me for an HTTP address. If I am
new to Mandriva, how would I know what address to use? 
-1
When it came time to select the bootloader, I decided to ignore it as I
already have Grub2 under Ubuntu Lucid.
It configured my network and asked me if I wanted to update the
packages. Wow, that's nice, Install and update all at once while I have
dinner!! I'm liking it.
+1
Things completed and I rebooted in Ubuntu to update grub. Restarted the
computer but It wouldn't boot Mandriva. It's complaining about the
root=/dev/sda6 kernel parameter.
I went to Ubuntu, created a 40 level grub2 script to manually add
Mandriva and things rebooted properly. I don't know if I should blame
grub2 or Mandriva for this one so things are still in favour of
Mandriva.
Upon download I was welcomed with the final setup, Surprise! Mandriva
selected the highest resolution available for my card and monitor, which
is 1920x1440. On a 19" monitor the text on the welcome screens were
super small and there was no way to change the resolution at that time.
-1
The welcome screen asked me to register to the Mandriva community. All
good and nice, except that it asked for an email and a password. No
indication that the password should be different than the login password
for the computer. A new user would assume that if he/she just provided a
password 3 minutes ago while installing. The password requested will be
that one.
-1
Finally I got to the login screen and to the desktop. It looks like
KDE3... wait a second, Shouldn't this be KDE4.x? Well it is, but kind of
retro. No plasma widgets, no searchable menu. Just plain retro KDE3.
Aggghh, Will need to take some time to configure it to look as a default
KDE4? bummer.
-1
OK, now it's time to finally change the resolution... Where are the
system settings? Nowhere. So I clicked some menu entries that looked
promising: "Configure your computer"... Nop, Even though it has a
hardware section, configuring the display (hardware) is not there. And
by the way, the menu entry does not correspond to the title of the
window that opens. Finally I found it under "Configure your desktop",
which had an icon similar to the "System Settings"... wait a second...
It IS the system settings. with keyboard, multimedia, network sharing.
all that, Why would they call it something different is a mystery to me.
-3 (Yes, this one was annoying)
Oh, a pop up advising me of a new version. How nice, but, didn't I just
updated during installation? whatever. 
+1 for advising me of the new version.
I'm on a roll so I say I want to upgrade. It first shows me two options
I didn't know what they meant. so I selected the one that said "download
all packages", wouldn't it be clear that if you update over the Internet
you MUST download the packages? Well... then it said that it had to
download 2.3 GB of data! Sounded like a lot to me considering that the
full DVD is less than twice that. I decline the upgrade.
-1 for the confusing wording.
I proceeded to try to find the software upgrade for the current
version... I'm searching until I find it buried under: "Configure your
computer". This is now just funny. You cannot configure your display
under the Hardware section of "Configure your computer" which has an
icon that looks like a display but somehow they think that installing
and updating software is equivalent to configuring my computer by
clicking on a "screw driver and a wrench" icon?
-2
Getting over the naming (after all What's on a name but SEMANTICS) I
proceeded to update my system. What? only 5 packages ready to update? I
thought that my version was so old that there was even a newer full
version. Until I remembered that during the installation It asked me if
I wanted to update the packages. Great something to smile about. 
+2
I click update and this message is shown: "Rpmdrake or one of its
priority dependencies need to be udpated first. Rpmdrake will then
restart". What is that Rpmdrake for and will it affect my computer if it
restarts? I guess it's not OK to continue but then nothing gets
updated... mmmm. I'll click update again and bite the bullet. Everything
seems to install and at the end another message:"You should restart your
computer for glibc" Who is that glibc and why should I restart for him?
My only option is "OK" does that mean that I have no other options?
I click OK and go for some milk while it reboots... I come back but the
computer didn't reboot. It is telling me that it needs to contact the
mirror. blah blah. I accept and I see that the Software Packages update
restarted but has a huge list of things to upgrade. Didn't I just go
through this and it was just a short list? I had even awarded 2 points
for upgrading while installing. I click "Update" again and... another
question asking me to confirm. Haven't I confirmed several times? How
many freaking times do I have to say that I want to update? I'm not
laughing any more.
Now waiting. I don't know how long because it never told me the size of
each package or the total size of the updates just that there are 663
packages to be updated.
-2 (for the points I awarded above)
-5 (for being so annoying)
While it updates I'll go browse the menu to see what's there. Alt-F1...
mm, nothing. I have KDE4 in a different computer, that opens the menu.
but not here. Check the menu settings and.. the keyboard shortcut is set
to none!
Well, then I'll switch to the KDE4 Kickoff Menu style. Good thing I know
how to do it. I unlock the widgets, right click on the menu widget and
select to switch only to be shown a red X which when hovered over tells
me that it is unable to launch the widget. So, no menu, no way to switch
back with the right click. I am forced to add the traditional menu
widget and delete the malfunctioning one.
I browse the old (windows 95 style) menu and find that some applications
have a name and a description, quite useful. But some others, just the
name. What the hell is Codeina? Is it for when I am in pain? because I
need it right now!
Sitting here still waiting for it to update. I'm starting to guess that
I would've been better off upgrading, I don't know how much it is
downloading but it seems like a lot.
Finally after what seems like an eternity it finishes, with "Problems
during installation" and a list of packages on Dependency Hell!!!. this
is a new installation, I haven't added repositories, people had told me
that RPM dependency hell was no more. This was the last drop.
Or so I thought... When I click OK, it offers me more updates which
leads to an "orphan" package, whatever that means.
Finally no more updates!!
I don't think that I will keep using Mandriva for long but if I find
something worth talking about I will amend this post.
Conclusion:
This is crazy, some parts of Mandriva treat you as if you are a total
newbie, asking confirmation after confirmation and some others treat you
as if you are a Linux expert and know what libraries are required for
what and what are the names of the applications (even though the names
are different than what shows in the menus and the window title bars).
Mandriva will tell you that it is  a modern distribution while at the
same time going out of their way to make it look old and fuggly. They
even managed to break KDE4.
Things are hidden and out of place, misnomers all over the place. I've
been a distro hooper for a while and this is the first time where I've
felt really flabbergasted.
I know that this is the free version. But many volunteers worked on it.
So, how could so many little and BIG details made it to this release?
Could it be so people go for the paid version and this is just sharing
the crumbs with the community?
This is sad. Very sad. I really expected better. Honestly.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recent comments - 9 new comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 new comment attached to Blog entry posted by Raul Suarez: USB Webcam
mistery under Ubuntu Lucid Linx
   1. It could be power draw.  
A by BobJonkman
     http://kwlug.org/node/759#comment-760

---

8 new comments attached to Blog entry posted by Raul Suarez: Mandriva
2010 First impressions
   1. I may be a masochist. I just by Raul Suarez
     http://kwlug.org/node/760#comment-761

   2. OK, I deleted the ~/.kde by Raul Suarez
     http://kwlug.org/node/760#comment-762

   3. What version was your DVD? by GaryWalsh
     http://kwlug.org/node/760#comment-763

   4. OK,  I finally found and by Raul Suarez
     http://kwlug.org/node/760#comment-764

   5. I think I realized that by Raul Suarez
     http://kwlug.org/node/760#comment-765

   6. I tried to upgrade, I really by Raul Suarez
     http://kwlug.org/node/760#comment-766

   7. I haven&#039;t heard about anyone by GaryWalsh
     http://kwlug.org/node/760#comment-767

   8. I started a thread on the by GaryWalsh
     http://kwlug.org/node/760#comment-768


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From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Tue Aug 17 14:47:41 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 14:47:41 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard
Message-ID: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>

Hi folks,

I recently found that I can move the mouse cursor with the keyboard
by pressing Shift+Numlock, and then using the keypad.  Keys /, *, and -
select left, middle, and right mouse buttons, and 5 "clicks" it.

Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to click, drag, and unclick.
My Google juice is coming up empty.

Anyone know?

Thanks,
- Chris




From zixiekat at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 14:51:00 2010
From: zixiekat at gmail.com (Colin Mackay)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 14:51:00 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard
In-Reply-To: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>
References: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=KJxS_uDy6x6CKR1Fo=uNh8pMnJ5H=i-VSnvys@mail.gmail.com>

I found this, but am at work and on Windows XP, so I cannot test:

http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/movecursor.html


On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Chris Frey <cdfrey at foursquare.net> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I recently found that I can move the mouse cursor with the keyboard
> by pressing Shift+Numlock, and then using the keypad. ?Keys /, *, and -
> select left, middle, and right mouse buttons, and 5 "clicks" it.
>
> Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to click, drag, and unclick.
> My Google juice is coming up empty.
>
> Anyone know?
>
> Thanks,
> - Chris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>



From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Tue Aug 17 15:31:12 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:31:12 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=KJxS_uDy6x6CKR1Fo=uNh8pMnJ5H=i-VSnvys@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTi=KJxS_uDy6x6CKR1Fo=uNh8pMnJ5H=i-VSnvys@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100817193112.GA31393@foursquare.net>

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 02:51:00PM -0400, Colin Mackay wrote:
> I found this, but am at work and on Windows XP, so I cannot test:
> 
> http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/movecursor.html

Yep, that's how I first learned of the feature.  Unfortunately, holding
down '5' stops the movement from working, so I can't drag.

This might be a keyboard limitation though.

Thanks,
- Chris




From zixiekat at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 15:33:14 2010
From: zixiekat at gmail.com (Colin Mackay)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:33:14 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard
In-Reply-To: <20100817193112.GA31393@foursquare.net>
References: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTi=KJxS_uDy6x6CKR1Fo=uNh8pMnJ5H=i-VSnvys@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817193112.GA31393@foursquare.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimSfhi3bE5cY+k6y=3vW0NALEHcejrs8ZFVJyLx@mail.gmail.com>

It says to 'click' the 0 key to drag and 'click' the 5 key to release
it.  So, 0 picks it up and 5 puts it down.

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Chris Frey <cdfrey at foursquare.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 02:51:00PM -0400, Colin Mackay wrote:
>> I found this, but am at work and on Windows XP, so I cannot test:
>>
>> http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/movecursor.html
>
> Yep, that's how I first learned of the feature. ?Unfortunately, holding
> down '5' stops the movement from working, so I can't drag.
>
> This might be a keyboard limitation though.
>
> Thanks,
> - Chris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>



From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Tue Aug 17 15:41:52 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:41:52 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimSfhi3bE5cY+k6y=3vW0NALEHcejrs8ZFVJyLx@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTi=KJxS_uDy6x6CKR1Fo=uNh8pMnJ5H=i-VSnvys@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817193112.GA31393@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTimSfhi3bE5cY+k6y=3vW0NALEHcejrs8ZFVJyLx@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100817194152.GA32002@foursquare.net>

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 03:33:14PM -0400, Colin Mackay wrote:
> It says to 'click' the 0 key to drag and 'click' the 5 key to release
> it.  So, 0 picks it up and 5 puts it down.

Oy!  Thanks for fixing my reading comprehension. :-)

That does work.

- Chris




From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Tue Aug 17 15:46:24 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:46:24 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard
In-Reply-To: <20100817194152.GA32002@foursquare.net>
References: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTi=KJxS_uDy6x6CKR1Fo=uNh8pMnJ5H=i-VSnvys@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817193112.GA31393@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTimSfhi3bE5cY+k6y=3vW0NALEHcejrs8ZFVJyLx@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817194152.GA32002@foursquare.net>
Message-ID: <20100817194624.GA32278@foursquare.net>

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 03:41:52PM -0400, Chris Frey wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 03:33:14PM -0400, Colin Mackay wrote:
> > It says to 'click' the 0 key to drag and 'click' the 5 key to release
> > it.  So, 0 picks it up and 5 puts it down.
> 
> Oy!  Thanks for fixing my reading comprehension. :-)
> 
> That does work.


Hmmm.... apparently, it only works when the moon is in the right phase.
It's either user error, or a bug in a rarely used feature of X :-)

- Chris




From kb at 2bits.com  Tue Aug 17 15:48:23 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:48:23 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard
In-Reply-To: <20100817194152.GA32002@foursquare.net>
References: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTi=KJxS_uDy6x6CKR1Fo=uNh8pMnJ5H=i-VSnvys@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817193112.GA31393@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTimSfhi3bE5cY+k6y=3vW0NALEHcejrs8ZFVJyLx@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817194152.GA32002@foursquare.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimGsLQO8Uh7-9hcK2EdAVRAoPUOsTW1=8+OCUh2@mail.gmail.com>

This is very interesting, and I would have found it to be useful.

But I guess too impractical on laptops that don't have a dedicated keypad
and already arcane sequences for things like numlock itself.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From zixiekat at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 15:50:51 2010
From: zixiekat at gmail.com (Colin Mackay)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 15:50:51 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard
In-Reply-To: <20100817194624.GA32278@foursquare.net>
References: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTi=KJxS_uDy6x6CKR1Fo=uNh8pMnJ5H=i-VSnvys@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817193112.GA31393@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTimSfhi3bE5cY+k6y=3vW0NALEHcejrs8ZFVJyLx@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817194152.GA32002@foursquare.net>
	<20100817194624.GA32278@foursquare.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimiHtKssQpYe-_tyJx47cGxZoiYm4gjEzF7zyHy@mail.gmail.com>

I'll try to remember to test it when I get home.

I have a KVM (or a mouse) where the right mouse button refuses to
work.  This may be a temporary solution until I find another PS/2
optical mouse.  USB optical mice with the adapter will not work on
this crappy KVM... :P


On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Chris Frey <cdfrey at foursquare.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 03:41:52PM -0400, Chris Frey wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 03:33:14PM -0400, Colin Mackay wrote:
>> > It says to 'click' the 0 key to drag and 'click' the 5 key to release
>> > it. ?So, 0 picks it up and 5 puts it down.
>>
>> Oy! ?Thanks for fixing my reading comprehension. :-)
>>
>> That does work.
>
>
> Hmmm.... apparently, it only works when the moon is in the right phase.
> It's either user error, or a bug in a rarely used feature of X :-)
>
> - Chris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>



From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Tue Aug 17 16:03:25 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:03:25 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimiHtKssQpYe-_tyJx47cGxZoiYm4gjEzF7zyHy@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTi=KJxS_uDy6x6CKR1Fo=uNh8pMnJ5H=i-VSnvys@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817193112.GA31393@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTimSfhi3bE5cY+k6y=3vW0NALEHcejrs8ZFVJyLx@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817194152.GA32002@foursquare.net>
	<20100817194624.GA32278@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTimiHtKssQpYe-_tyJx47cGxZoiYm4gjEzF7zyHy@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100817200325.GA750@foursquare.net>

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 03:50:51PM -0400, Colin Mackay wrote:
> I'll try to remember to test it when I get home.

If I'm very careful, I can press the period key, then the 0, and
then it works somewhat reliably. :-)

- Chris




From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Tue Aug 17 16:04:27 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:04:27 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimGsLQO8Uh7-9hcK2EdAVRAoPUOsTW1=8+OCUh2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTi=KJxS_uDy6x6CKR1Fo=uNh8pMnJ5H=i-VSnvys@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817193112.GA31393@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTimSfhi3bE5cY+k6y=3vW0NALEHcejrs8ZFVJyLx@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817194152.GA32002@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTimGsLQO8Uh7-9hcK2EdAVRAoPUOsTW1=8+OCUh2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100817200427.GB750@foursquare.net>

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 03:48:23PM -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> This is very interesting, and I would have found it to be useful.
> 
> But I guess too impractical on laptops that don't have a dedicated keypad
> and already arcane sequences for things like numlock itself.

Yeah, on a laptop it would an interesting sequence of keypresses. :-)

I'm looking forward to using this the next time I need pixel-level
precision in Gimp. :-)

- Chris




From ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com  Tue Aug 17 16:11:41 2010
From: ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com (Lori Paniak)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 16:11:41 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard
In-Reply-To: <20100817200427.GB750@foursquare.net>
References: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTi=KJxS_uDy6x6CKR1Fo=uNh8pMnJ5H=i-VSnvys@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817193112.GA31393@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTimSfhi3bE5cY+k6y=3vW0NALEHcejrs8ZFVJyLx@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817194152.GA32002@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTimGsLQO8Uh7-9hcK2EdAVRAoPUOsTW1=8+OCUh2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817200427.GB750@foursquare.net>
Message-ID: <1282075901.1918.81.camel@callisto>

Thanks for pointing this out.  I'm sure it will come in handy in the
not-too-distant future!  

On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 16:04 -0400, Chris Frey wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 03:48:23PM -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> > This is very interesting, and I would have found it to be useful.
> > 
> > But I guess too impractical on laptops that don't have a dedicated keypad
> > and already arcane sequences for things like numlock itself.
> 
> Yeah, on a laptop it would an interesting sequence of keypresses. :-)
> 
> I'm looking forward to using this the next time I need pixel-level
> precision in Gimp. :-)
> 
> - Chris
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org

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From chris at chrisirwin.ca  Tue Aug 17 17:04:26 2010
From: chris at chrisirwin.ca (Chris Irwin)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 17:04:26 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] moving the mouse cursor with the keyboard
In-Reply-To: <20100817194624.GA32278@foursquare.net>
References: <20100817184741.GA28367@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTi=KJxS_uDy6x6CKR1Fo=uNh8pMnJ5H=i-VSnvys@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817193112.GA31393@foursquare.net>
	<AANLkTimSfhi3bE5cY+k6y=3vW0NALEHcejrs8ZFVJyLx@mail.gmail.com>
	<20100817194152.GA32002@foursquare.net>
	<20100817194624.GA32278@foursquare.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=nBPh_eNw5SP+GDh4k4kosswURO0nwvBqM_uSf@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 15:46, Chris Frey <cdfrey at foursquare.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 03:41:52PM -0400, Chris Frey wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 03:33:14PM -0400, Colin Mackay wrote:
>> > It says to 'click' the 0 key to drag and 'click' the 5 key to release
>> > it. ?So, 0 picks it up and 5 puts it down.
>>
>> Oy! ?Thanks for fixing my reading comprehension. :-)
>>
>> That does work.
>
>
> Hmmm.... apparently, it only works when the moon is in the right phase.
> It's either user error, or a bug in a rarely used feature of X :-)

It looks like "+" is click & release, "0" is click, and "5" is
release. Thus "++"   gets you a double click, etc.

What might be messing you up is that the keys "/", "*", and "-" seem
to switch the click mode between left, middle, and right respectively.
So if you press -, the + key sends a right click. * switches to middle
click mode, and / back to left click.

If you were poking around with those keys, you may be in an unexpected mode.

-- 
Chris Irwin
<chris at chrisirwin.ca>



From rbclemen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 19:57:19 2010
From: rbclemen at gmail.com (R. Brent Clements)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:57:19 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB/Firewire cameras under Linux
Message-ID: <AANLkTimsFn7rfP4hRcY5Dv+oZGN7N5RHm48As8z=FeV5@mail.gmail.com>

Is anybody here using webcams (or something more substantial) under
Linux?  I am going to need a few cameras for a project and making
heads or tails of the compatibility lists I have found is proving to
be tough.  Preferrably something that is still widely available.  I
have access to enough wholesale suppliers that I can probably find
whatever you are using if it is still available.

Brent



From john at netdirect.ca  Tue Aug 17 20:01:16 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:01:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB/Firewire cameras under Linux
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimsFn7rfP4hRcY5Dv+oZGN7N5RHm48As8z=FeV5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20526776.1231.1282089676721.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>

----- Original Message -----
> Is anybody here using webcams (or something more substantial) under
> Linux? I am going to need a few cameras for a project and making
> heads or tails of the compatibility lists I have found is proving to
> be tough. Preferrably something that is still widely available. I
> have access to enough wholesale suppliers that I can probably find
> whatever you are using if it is still available.

I've used Axis network cameras. It's really for security at the office though. They are more expensive than a typical web cam but can offer pretty decent resolution.

-- 
John Van Ostrand 
CTO, co-CEO 
Net Direct Inc. 
564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 
Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102 
Fx: 519-883-8533 

Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware 




From kb at 2bits.com  Tue Aug 17 20:04:47 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:04:47 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB/Firewire cameras under Linux
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimsFn7rfP4hRcY5Dv+oZGN7N5RHm48As8z=FeV5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimsFn7rfP4hRcY5Dv+oZGN7N5RHm48As8z=FeV5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimBK1JU4qT4em3=BAXziYc-GYVOZYN9ZiSdpvCz@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 7:57 PM, R. Brent Clements <rbclemen at gmail.com>wrote:

> Is anybody here using webcams (or something more substantial) under
> Linux?  I am going to need a few cameras for a project and making
> heads or tails of the compatibility lists I have found is proving to
> be tough.  Preferrably something that is still widely available.  I
> have access to enough wholesale suppliers that I can probably find
> whatever you are using if it is still available.
>

I don't know about desktop ones, but I had at least 2 laptops that come with
built-in webcams, and they work out of the box. Nothing special to
configure.
Skype for Linux uses them without any issues. Kopete shows that it can
enable it for IM, but I have not tried to use it in IM.

lsusb says the following is the ID for one that works:

Bus 001 Device 002: ID 04f2:b070 Chicony Electronics Co., Ltd
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From rbclemen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 20:17:29 2010
From: rbclemen at gmail.com (R. Brent Clements)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:17:29 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB/Firewire cameras under Linux
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimBK1JU4qT4em3=BAXziYc-GYVOZYN9ZiSdpvCz@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimsFn7rfP4hRcY5Dv+oZGN7N5RHm48As8z=FeV5@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimBK1JU4qT4em3=BAXziYc-GYVOZYN9ZiSdpvCz@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Uymc6xYyG3S=fS4mAnZ9o5X4Ym=wsYxhLkhNM@mail.gmail.com>

John:  How expensive.  A decent resolution at a full 30 fps (at least
640x480 would be needed) for less than a hundred I could afford.  I
need two to do what I want.

Brent

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 7:57 PM, R. Brent Clements <rbclemen at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Is anybody here using webcams (or something more substantial) under
>> Linux? ?I am going to need a few cameras for a project and making
>> heads or tails of the compatibility lists I have found is proving to
>> be tough. ?Preferrably something that is still widely available. ?I
>> have access to enough wholesale suppliers that I can probably find
>> whatever you are using if it is still available.
>
> I don't know about desktop ones, but I had at least 2 laptops that come with
> built-in webcams, and they work out of the box. Nothing special to
> configure.
> Skype for Linux uses them without any issues. Kopete shows that it can
> enable it for IM, but I have not tried to use it in IM.
>
> lsusb says the following is the ID for one that works:
>
> Bus 001 Device 002: ID 04f2:b070 Chicony Electronics Co., Ltd
> --
> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
> 2bits.com, Inc.
> http://2bits.com
> Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
> Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --? Edsger W.Dijkstra
> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --?? Leonardo da Vinci
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>



From john at netdirect.ca  Tue Aug 17 20:19:20 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:19:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB/Firewire cameras under Linux
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=Uymc6xYyG3S=fS4mAnZ9o5X4Ym=wsYxhLkhNM@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <11111142.1233.1282090760216.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>


----- Original Message -----
> John: How expensive. A decent resolution at a full 30 fps (at least
> 640x480 would be needed) for less than a hundred I could afford. I
> need two to do what I want.
The one I picked up was more than $200.


-- 
John Van Ostrand 
CTO, co-CEO 
Net Direct Inc. 
564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 
Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102 
Fx: 519-883-8533 

Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware 




From rbclemen at gmail.com  Tue Aug 17 20:33:51 2010
From: rbclemen at gmail.com (R. Brent Clements)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:33:51 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB/Firewire cameras under Linux
In-Reply-To: <11111142.1233.1282090760216.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
References: <AANLkTi=Uymc6xYyG3S=fS4mAnZ9o5X4Ym=wsYxhLkhNM@mail.gmail.com>
	<11111142.1233.1282090760216.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
Message-ID: <AANLkTindRk3i52PJTxCTyxaCSmxwhj0EWM42giqrOagK@mail.gmail.com>

which model?

On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 8:19 PM, John Van Ostrand <john at netdirect.ca> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> John: How expensive. A decent resolution at a full 30 fps (at least
>> 640x480 would be needed) for less than a hundred I could afford. I
>> need two to do what I want.
> The one I picked up was more than $200.
>
>
> --
> John Van Ostrand
> CTO, co-CEO
> Net Direct Inc.
> 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6
> Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102
> Fx: 519-883-8533
>
> Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>



From john at netdirect.ca  Tue Aug 17 20:48:16 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:48:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] USB/Firewire cameras under Linux
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTindRk3i52PJTxCTyxaCSmxwhj0EWM42giqrOagK@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2502530.1239.1282092496071.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>

----- Original Message -----
> which model?

I picked up two M1011 640x480x30fps recently. I also have two older 207s.

-- 
John Van Ostrand 
CTO, co-CEO 
Net Direct Inc. 
564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 
Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102 
Fx: 519-883-8533 

Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware 




From kb at 2bits.com  Wed Aug 18 00:53:07 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:53:07 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Wall wart servers
Message-ID: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>

Wall wart servers are power efficient small servers, with not too much
CPU power or storage. They also beat about anything else for footprint.

However, they can be good for some applications.

http://www.newit.co.uk/shop/products.php?cat=5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SheevaPlug

For example, I may replace the only desktop in the house with a laptop,
and the print server function of that desktop can easily be handled by one
of those wall wart servers that have USB and Ethernet.

Or, with a wall wart server that has eSATA, a cheap NAS can be setup.

Any other cool implementations?
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From 3lucid at gmail.com  Wed Aug 18 11:36:38 2010
From: 3lucid at gmail.com (Kyle Spaans)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:36:38 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Wall wart servers
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimz3B1oVaWR+_vzD89oO7tXGijVujgL8dEcccZC@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:
> For example, I may replace the only desktop in the house with a laptop,
> and the print server function of that desktop can easily be handled by one
> of those wall wart servers that have USB and Ethernet.
>
> Or, with a wall wart server that has eSATA, a cheap NAS can be setup.
>
> Any other cool implementations?

I'd hide it behind a TV and make it a media-centre type of device. With
sensors though, I'd rather make it a Big Brother type of device for my own
home: temperature, light levels, some way of tracking occupancy (door
open/close sensor). Strictly for fun of course. ;-)



From youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 18 15:58:02 2010
From: youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com (Joe Wennechuk)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:58:02 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Unlocking a Blackberry
Message-ID: <BAY126-W29E861A61BB10CAB19F2F7AF9D0@phx.gbl>


I have a blackberry 8830 World Eidion from Telus. I want to enter thr unlock code, but the screenthat says Enter Network MEP code (0 left):

 

Does anyone know why it says 0 left, and not 10? I have not tried a single code yet. Can this phone even be unlocked? Or does it even need to. The point is I need to use local sim chips in it while traveling to malaysia so I don't end up paying tons of roamng money.

Joseph Wennechuk
________________



 		 	   		  
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From kiwi at ssenn.com  Wed Aug 18 17:27:18 2010
From: kiwi at ssenn.com (Kiwi Ssennyonjo)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:27:18 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Unlocking a Blackberry
In-Reply-To: <BAY126-W29E861A61BB10CAB19F2F7AF9D0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY126-W29E861A61BB10CAB19F2F7AF9D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimDYERxLUp0nryLnzOiDA+SHJ4G4W=gkhgygvzG@mail.gmail.com>

How to enter codes in BlackBerry

1. Insert any sim card
2. Turn off all of the wireless connections
3. Go to Options
4. Select Advanced Options
5. Select SIM Card
6. Hit menu select show keyboard (where needed)
7. Type MEPD (you will not be able to see the typed info)
8. Type MEP2
9. Now it will say enter network mep code
10. Enter Unlock Code
11. Reboot your BlackBerry .

All done.

if that does not work try this

Oooops, then your BlackBerry is canadian, it's really a rare case please
type MEP4 instead of MEP2

you might have to get another unlock code

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 15:58, Joe Wennechuk
<youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com>wrote:

>  I have a blackberry 8830 World Eidion from Telus. I want to enter thr
> unlock code, but the screenthat says Enter Network MEP code (0 left):
>
> Does anyone know why it says 0 left, and not 10? I have not tried a single
> code yet. Can this phone even be unlocked? Or does it even need to. The
> point is I need to use local sim chips in it while traveling to malaysia so
> I don't end up paying tons of roamng money.
>
> Joseph Wennechuk
> ________________
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>


-- 
Kiwi Ssennyonjo
http://www.ssenn.com
m:519-744-3200
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From 3lucid at gmail.com  Wed Aug 18 17:50:00 2010
From: 3lucid at gmail.com (Kyle Spaans)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:50:00 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Unlocking a Blackberry
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimDYERxLUp0nryLnzOiDA+SHJ4G4W=gkhgygvzG@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY126-W29E861A61BB10CAB19F2F7AF9D0@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTimDYERxLUp0nryLnzOiDA+SHJ4G4W=gkhgygvzG@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Mn4x+KWik50msUkB3uitm_WSvrG7ptoy2OgD4@mail.gmail.com>

<HIJACK!>
I was given an older-but-still-good BlackBerry from my Uncle and will
be going through the same process of unlocking it so that I can have a
little more freedom with it. Is someone on ``The Internet'' the only
way you can get an unlock code for these things? I've done a couple
hours worth of research and all I could find was people reviewing
which unlocking services were the cheapest, fastest, and most
reliable.
</HIJACK!>

Joe, Kiwi's advice concurs with things that I've seen while doing
research. But I can't say anything about the "0 chars left" bit.



From aklists at mixdown.ca  Wed Aug 18 18:38:06 2010
From: aklists at mixdown.ca (Andrew Kohlsmith (mailing lists account))
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 18:38:06 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Unlocking a Blackberry
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=Mn4x+KWik50msUkB3uitm_WSvrG7ptoy2OgD4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY126-W29E861A61BB10CAB19F2F7AF9D0@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTimDYERxLUp0nryLnzOiDA+SHJ4G4W=gkhgygvzG@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Mn4x+KWik50msUkB3uitm_WSvrG7ptoy2OgD4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201008181838.07388.aklists@mixdown.ca>

On Wednesday, August 18, 2010 05:50:00 pm Kyle Spaans wrote:
> <HIJACK!>
> I was given an older-but-still-good BlackBerry from my Uncle and will
> be going through the same process of unlocking it so that I can have a
> little more freedom with it. Is someone on ``The Internet'' the only
> way you can get an unlock code for these things? I've done a couple
> hours worth of research and all I could find was people reviewing
> which unlocking services were the cheapest, fastest, and most
> reliable.
> </HIJACK!>

There is some mathematical function that will translate an IMEI to an MSL 
unlock code. I managed to unlock my x950D with an online service. He said he 
didn't know if it would work, but to try the given code.  If it worked, pay 
him the $20 and if it didn't, nobody lost anything from trying.

I got an unlocked HSDPA card and he got to add Novatel to his list of devices 
that he can unlock.

-A.




From kiwi at ssenn.com  Wed Aug 18 18:45:57 2010
From: kiwi at ssenn.com (Kiwi Ssennyonjo)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 18:45:57 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Unlocking a Blackberry
In-Reply-To: <201008181838.07388.aklists@mixdown.ca>
References: <BAY126-W29E861A61BB10CAB19F2F7AF9D0@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTimDYERxLUp0nryLnzOiDA+SHJ4G4W=gkhgygvzG@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=Mn4x+KWik50msUkB3uitm_WSvrG7ptoy2OgD4@mail.gmail.com>
	<201008181838.07388.aklists@mixdown.ca>
Message-ID: <-3468730569874073461@unknownmsgid>

Here is the best service I have used several times (at least 30 devices)

BlackBerryMEP.COM Support
support at blackberrymep.com

And they are cheep too.
Kiwi

On 2010-08-18, at 18:38, "Andrew Kohlsmith (mailing lists account)"
<aklists at mixdown.ca> wrote:

> On Wednesday, August 18, 2010 05:50:00 pm Kyle Spaans wrote:
>> <HIJACK!>
>> I was given an older-but-still-good BlackBerry from my Uncle and will
>> be going through the same process of unlocking it so that I can have a
>> little more freedom with it. Is someone on ``The Internet'' the only
>> way you can get an unlock code for these things? I've done a couple
>> hours worth of research and all I could find was people reviewing
>> which unlocking services were the cheapest, fastest, and most
>> reliable.
>> </HIJACK!>
>
> There is some mathematical function that will translate an IMEI to an MSL
> unlock code. I managed to unlock my x950D with an online service. He said he
> didn't know if it would work, but to try the given code.  If it worked, pay
> him the $20 and if it didn't, nobody lost anything from trying.
>
> I got an unlocked HSDPA card and he got to add Novatel to his list of devices
> that he can unlock.
>
> -A.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org



From youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com  Wed Aug 18 19:18:00 2010
From: youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com (Joe Wennechuk)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:18:00 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Unlocking a Blackberry
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimDYERxLUp0nryLnzOiDA+SHJ4G4W=gkhgygvzG@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY126-W29E861A61BB10CAB19F2F7AF9D0@phx.gbl>,
	<AANLkTimDYERxLUp0nryLnzOiDA+SHJ4G4W=gkhgygvzG@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY126-W71A6B3F024794AEF277C5AF9D0@phx.gbl>


That 0 tries left is the kicker. I purchased an unlock code on the internet, was having problems. I did have to use the desktop software to get the hex type imei as the 15 or so digit one listed in options -> status on the unit its self was somehow inadequate. The persistent issue caused me to call the code provider company. While speaking to the agent we went the afformentioned setps to get to the screen where you enter the code MEP2, and the counter is zero not ten. The agent explained they were unable to provide a code or a unit in such a situation. I read more on the interweb, and it was explaining that only RIM can unlock this. He gave me a refund.I was hoping I could backup all the data with desktop, then wipe it or re flash it or whatever, then reload the data. Clearing the zero counter.

Joseph Wennechuk

________________




From: kiwi at ssenn.com
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:27:18 -0400
To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Unlocking a Blackberry

How to enter codes in BlackBerry

1. Insert any sim card
2. Turn off all of the wireless connections



3. Go to Options
4. Select Advanced Options
5. Select SIM Card
6. Hit menu select show keyboard (where needed)



7. Type MEPD (you will not be able to see the typed info)
8. Type MEP29. Now it will say enter network mep code



10. Enter Unlock Code11. Reboot your BlackBerry .

All done.



if that does not work try this
Oooops, then your BlackBerry is canadian, it's really a rare case please type MEP4 instead of MEP2


you might have to get another unlock code


On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 15:58, Joe Wennechuk <youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com> wrote:






I have a blackberry 8830 World Eidion from Telus. I want to enter thr unlock code, but the screenthat says Enter Network MEP code (0 left):

 

Does anyone know why it says 0 left, and not 10? I have not tried a single code yet. Can this phone even be unlocked? Or does it even need to. The point is I need to use local sim chips in it while traveling to malaysia so I don't end up paying tons of roamng money.




Joseph Wennechuk
________________



 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________

kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list

kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org

http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




-- 
Kiwi Ssennyonjo
http://www.ssenn.com
m:519-744-3200



_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org 		 	   		  
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From pgallaway at gmail.com  Wed Aug 18 19:49:48 2010
From: pgallaway at gmail.com (Paul Gallaway)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 19:49:48 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Wall wart servers
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:
> Any other cool implementations?

This came up on the mythtv users list today:
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/447531?search_string=sheeva;#447531

Apparently there are at least two people who are using them as a
master backend. Seems like an ideal mythtv scenario would be to use
one as the master backend to wake up more powerful slave backends for
recording, transcoding etc.



From hyperflexed at gmail.com  Thu Aug 19 02:10:13 2010
From: hyperflexed at gmail.com (Johnny Ferguson)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 02:10:13 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] setting up a multi-user git server
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>

I just got an account with rackspace, and I'm trying to find a guide for 
setting up a multi-user git server.

I've created the git user, but I'm not sure how I go about allowing 
multiple users to use git. Is there a simple way to let outside users 
create and work with repositories on my server? (I'm thinking simple, 
like github).

I'm sure the solutions are out there, but I haven't chanced upon them.

Also, if there's some kind of easy to use web interface, I'd like to 
know about it.

Cheers,
Johnny



From jeff.w.bulk at gmail.com  Thu Aug 19 02:16:06 2010
From: jeff.w.bulk at gmail.com (J W)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 23:16:06 -0700
Subject: [kwlug-disc] setting up a multi-user git server
In-Reply-To: <4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <759523235899133136@unknownmsgid>

Have you tried asking github?
I mean, if the documentation is hard to come by and googling hasn't
given you anything useful, there's no harm in asking them to point you
to the documentation that they found useful.

I use github and have had to use their support before, they're
generally pretty good.


On 2010-08-18, at 11:10 PM, Johnny Ferguson <hyperflexed at gmail.com> wrote:

> I just got an account with rackspace, and I'm trying to find a guide for setting up a multi-user git server.
>
> I've created the git user, but I'm not sure how I go about allowing multiple users to use git. Is there a simple way to let outside users create and work with repositories on my server? (I'm thinking simple, like github).
>
> I'm sure the solutions are out there, but I haven't chanced upon them.
>
> Also, if there's some kind of easy to use web interface, I'd like to know about it.
>
> Cheers,
> Johnny
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org



From hyperflexed at gmail.com  Thu Aug 19 02:21:03 2010
From: hyperflexed at gmail.com (Johnny Ferguson)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 02:21:03 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] setting up a multi-user git server
In-Reply-To: <759523235899133136@unknownmsgid>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>	<4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>
	<759523235899133136@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <4C6CCD4F.5020503@gmail.com>

On 08/19/2010 02:16 AM, J W wrote:
> Have you tried asking github?
> I mean, if the documentation is hard to come by and googling hasn't
> given you anything useful, there's no harm in asking them to point you
> to the documentation that they found useful.
>
> I use github and have had to use their support before, they're
> generally pretty good.
>

my understanding is that github is just a service and a frontend. I do 
use github, but I'm trying to set up my own git server.

I'm moreso wondering what's involved with creating a multi-user git 
server. Do I have to create a user on the remote box for each user using 
the git server? Or does git handle this in some other way?

I tried looking for a piece of "github" software, but I didn't find much.

Again, I'm not asking anyone to write me a book, but if anyone knows of 
a guide that would help in this endeavour, I'm all ears. I've tried 
using gitosis, but I'm not sure what it's doing or how it works. If 
there's a "vanilla" way to go about this, I'd rather use that (so I can 
try to understand what's going on).

-Johnny

>
> On 2010-08-18, at 11:10 PM, Johnny Ferguson<hyperflexed at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> I just got an account with rackspace, and I'm trying to find a guide for setting up a multi-user git server.
>>
>> I've created the git user, but I'm not sure how I go about allowing multiple users to use git. Is there a simple way to let outside users create and work with repositories on my server? (I'm thinking simple, like github).
>>
>> I'm sure the solutions are out there, but I haven't chanced upon them.
>>
>> Also, if there's some kind of easy to use web interface, I'd like to know about it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Johnny
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From kb at 2bits.com  Thu Aug 19 02:21:23 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 02:21:23 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] setting up a multi-user git server
In-Reply-To: <4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=4jVhDGFe3Ux_s=DP6rVOmuyJ9-SkSQKJc+CJC@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:10 AM, Johnny Ferguson <hyperflexed at gmail.com>wrote:

> I just got an account with rackspace, and I'm trying to find a guide for
> setting up a multi-user git server.
>
> I've created the git user, but I'm not sure how I go about allowing
> multiple users to use git. Is there a simple way to let outside users create
> and work with repositories on my server? (I'm thinking simple, like github).
>
> I'm sure the solutions are out there, but I haven't chanced upon them.
>
> Also, if there's some kind of easy to use web interface, I'd like to know
> about it.
>

Lookup the following:

Gitosis
Gitolite

More links to those in here
http://groups.drupal.org/node/76563#comment-252239

Smart HTTP support may be the future option for newer versions.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From jeff.w.bulk at gmail.com  Thu Aug 19 02:26:12 2010
From: jeff.w.bulk at gmail.com (J W)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 23:26:12 -0700
Subject: [kwlug-disc] setting up a multi-user git server
In-Reply-To: <4C6CCD4F.5020503@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com> <759523235899133136@unknownmsgid>
	<4C6CCD4F.5020503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-7675728645090685689@unknownmsgid>

Oh, perhaps you misunderstood me. I merely meant you could ask them
how they went about achieving their multi-user git setup, given that
documentation on the subject is hard to come by. I didn't mean for you
to just use their service.

On 2010-08-18, at 11:21 PM, Johnny Ferguson <hyperflexed at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 08/19/2010 02:16 AM, J W wrote:
>> Have you tried asking github?
>> I mean, if the documentation is hard to come by and googling hasn't
>> given you anything useful, there's no harm in asking them to point you
>> to the documentation that they found useful.
>>
>> I use github and have had to use their support before, they're
>> generally pretty good.
>>
>
> my understanding is that github is just a service and a frontend. I do use github, but I'm trying to set up my own git server.
>
> I'm moreso wondering what's involved with creating a multi-user git server. Do I have to create a user on the remote box for each user using the git server? Or does git handle this in some other way?
>
> I tried looking for a piece of "github" software, but I didn't find much.
>
> Again, I'm not asking anyone to write me a book, but if anyone knows of a guide that would help in this endeavour, I'm all ears. I've tried using gitosis, but I'm not sure what it's doing or how it works. If there's a "vanilla" way to go about this, I'd rather use that (so I can try to understand what's going on).
>
> -Johnny
>
>>
>> On 2010-08-18, at 11:10 PM, Johnny Ferguson<hyperflexed at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> I just got an account with rackspace, and I'm trying to find a guide for setting up a multi-user git server.
>>>
>>> I've created the git user, but I'm not sure how I go about allowing multiple users to use git. Is there a simple way to let outside users create and work with repositories on my server? (I'm thinking simple, like github).
>>>
>>> I'm sure the solutions are out there, but I haven't chanced upon them.
>>>
>>> Also, if there's some kind of easy to use web interface, I'd like to know about it.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Johnny
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org



From hyperflexed at gmail.com  Thu Aug 19 02:26:47 2010
From: hyperflexed at gmail.com (Johnny Ferguson)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 02:26:47 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] setting up a multi-user git server
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=4jVhDGFe3Ux_s=DP6rVOmuyJ9-SkSQKJc+CJC@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>	<4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=4jVhDGFe3Ux_s=DP6rVOmuyJ9-SkSQKJc+CJC@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C6CCEA7.3000804@gmail.com>

On 08/19/2010 02:21 AM, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:10 AM, Johnny Ferguson <hyperflexed at gmail.com
> <mailto:hyperflexed at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I just got an account with rackspace, and I'm trying to find a guide
>     for setting up a multi-user git server.
>
>     I've created the git user, but I'm not sure how I go about allowing
>     multiple users to use git. Is there a simple way to let outside
>     users create and work with repositories on my server? (I'm thinking
>     simple, like github).
>
>     I'm sure the solutions are out there, but I haven't chanced upon them.
>
>     Also, if there's some kind of easy to use web interface, I'd like to
>     know about it.
>
>
> Lookup the following:
>
> Gitosis
> Gitolite
>
> More links to those in here
> http://groups.drupal.org/node/76563#comment-252239
>

Looks like a good collection of information. I think for now I'm going 
to get some sleep, and work on parsing that stuff in the morning when my 
brain has a chance to reset. Can't be setting up git servers with such a 
short attention span :P

> Smart HTTP support may be the future option for newer versions.
> --
> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
> 2bits.com <http://2bits.com>, Inc.
> http://2bits.com
> Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
> Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From hyperflexed at gmail.com  Thu Aug 19 02:28:31 2010
From: hyperflexed at gmail.com (Johnny Ferguson)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 02:28:31 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] setting up a multi-user git server
In-Reply-To: <-7675728645090685689@unknownmsgid>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>	<4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>
	<759523235899133136@unknownmsgid>	<4C6CCD4F.5020503@gmail.com>
	<-7675728645090685689@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <4C6CCF0F.2050405@gmail.com>

On 08/19/2010 02:26 AM, J W wrote:
> Oh, perhaps you misunderstood me. I merely meant you could ask them
> how they went about achieving their multi-user git setup, given that
> documentation on the subject is hard to come by. I didn't mean for you
> to just use their service.
>

fair enough, I suppose an e-mail couldn't hurt. I'll explore that avenue 
if Khalid's links leave me with unanswered questions.

I'm also having a look here:
http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/user-manual.html

Seems to be a section on setting up public repositories, which I didn't 
see on my first run through google.

-Johnny

> On 2010-08-18, at 11:21 PM, Johnny Ferguson<hyperflexed at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> On 08/19/2010 02:16 AM, J W wrote:
>>> Have you tried asking github?
>>> I mean, if the documentation is hard to come by and googling hasn't
>>> given you anything useful, there's no harm in asking them to point you
>>> to the documentation that they found useful.
>>>
>>> I use github and have had to use their support before, they're
>>> generally pretty good.
>>>
>>
>> my understanding is that github is just a service and a frontend. I do use github, but I'm trying to set up my own git server.
>>
>> I'm moreso wondering what's involved with creating a multi-user git server. Do I have to create a user on the remote box for each user using the git server? Or does git handle this in some other way?
>>
>> I tried looking for a piece of "github" software, but I didn't find much.
>>
>> Again, I'm not asking anyone to write me a book, but if anyone knows of a guide that would help in this endeavour, I'm all ears. I've tried using gitosis, but I'm not sure what it's doing or how it works. If there's a "vanilla" way to go about this, I'd rather use that (so I can try to understand what's going on).
>>
>> -Johnny
>>
>>>
>>> On 2010-08-18, at 11:10 PM, Johnny Ferguson<hyperflexed at gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just got an account with rackspace, and I'm trying to find a guide for setting up a multi-user git server.
>>>>
>>>> I've created the git user, but I'm not sure how I go about allowing multiple users to use git. Is there a simple way to let outside users create and work with repositories on my server? (I'm thinking simple, like github).
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure the solutions are out there, but I haven't chanced upon them.
>>>>
>>>> Also, if there's some kind of easy to use web interface, I'd like to know about it.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Johnny
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>>>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>>>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Thu Aug 19 02:48:14 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 02:48:14 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] setting up a multi-user git server
In-Reply-To: <4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100819064814.GA23603@foursquare.net>

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 02:10:13AM -0400, Johnny Ferguson wrote:
> I've created the git user, but I'm not sure how I go about allowing 
> multiple users to use git. Is there a simple way to let outside users 
> create and work with repositories on my server? (I'm thinking simple, 
> like github).
> 
> I'm sure the solutions are out there, but I haven't chanced upon them.
> 
> Also, if there's some kind of easy to use web interface, I'd like to 
> know about it.

The entire engine for repo.or.cz is open source, so if you like that
site's interface, you could start from there.  (link to the source is
on the front page)

Git comes with a web browsing service built in, but it does take a little
bit of configuring.

As for multiple committers, ssh accounts seems like the easiest way to go,
to me.

- Chris




From hyperflexed at gmail.com  Thu Aug 19 02:59:46 2010
From: hyperflexed at gmail.com (Johnny Ferguson)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 02:59:46 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] setting up a multi-user git server
In-Reply-To: <20100819064814.GA23603@foursquare.net>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>	<4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>
	<20100819064814.GA23603@foursquare.net>
Message-ID: <4C6CD662.4030501@gmail.com>

On 08/19/2010 02:48 AM, Chris Frey wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 02:10:13AM -0400, Johnny Ferguson wrote:
>> I've created the git user, but I'm not sure how I go about allowing
>> multiple users to use git. Is there a simple way to let outside users
>> create and work with repositories on my server? (I'm thinking simple,
>> like github).
>>
>> I'm sure the solutions are out there, but I haven't chanced upon them.
>>
>> Also, if there's some kind of easy to use web interface, I'd like to
>> know about it.
>
> The entire engine for repo.or.cz is open source, so if you like that
> site's interface, you could start from there.  (link to the source is
> on the front page)
>

looks like a working solution to me

> Git comes with a web browsing service built in, but it does take a little
> bit of configuring.
>
> As for multiple committers, ssh accounts seems like the easiest way to go,
> to me.
>

I may be getting in over my head, but I'd like to have a system like 
github so I can allow new users to register without having to set up an 
SSH account for them. I'm not sure if setting up ssh accounts could be 
automated or not. (it likely is, I was hoping I could avoid it)

I'm making this server to allow multiple users to collaborate on songs. 
There's a program called renoise which stores projects as a tar file 
containing sound samples and xml files containing the score information. 
I remember hearing at the git presentation that git is able to see files 
inside archives, so I'm thinking git would be able to avoid unnecessary 
duplication of blobs as users make updates to a collaboration.

My hope is that if only the XML score files change, then the server 
won't have to dedicate so much space to the sample files (WAVs mostly), 
as there will only be one copy of each WAV file per 
repository/collaboration. The XML costs nothing in storage, so that 
would be able to change as many times as desired without significant cost.

I know this is a rather strange use of git, but I'm interested to see 
how it turns out. It may turn out that git is not ideal for this kind of 
thing, but I'd like to give it a try before trying to roll my own solution.

I haven't thought of how branching and merging of project files will 
work (users don't generally edit the raw XML files), but I'll find a way 
to work that out once I have a multi-user git server, and a decent web 
interface running.

-Johnny

> - Chris
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From txwikinger at ubuntu.com  Thu Aug 19 13:02:52 2010
From: txwikinger at ubuntu.com (Ralph Janke)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 13:02:52 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] setting up a multi-user git server
In-Reply-To: <759523235899133136@unknownmsgid>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>	<4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>
	<759523235899133136@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <4C6D63BC.6060805@ubuntu.com>

Is the github code open source? If so where can you get the sources?

On 08/19/2010 02:16 AM, J W wrote:
> Have you tried asking github?
> I mean, if the documentation is hard to come by and googling hasn't
> given you anything useful, there's no harm in asking them to point you
> to the documentation that they found useful.
>
> I use github and have had to use their support before, they're
> generally pretty good.
>
>    




From dscassel at gmail.com  Thu Aug 19 13:25:25 2010
From: dscassel at gmail.com (Darcy Casselman)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 13:25:25 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Ubuntu Global Jam: August 28 at Kwartzlab
Message-ID: <AANLkTimBuwrAAcuttih0VXAFO00e8gS1EKKMo68_1xNr@mail.gmail.com>

Ubuntu Waterloo and Kwartzlab are hosting the Ubuntu Global Jam for
Waterloo region next Saturday, Aug 28.

Details and sign up here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/257/detail/

Ubuntu needs your help!  This is your change to get involved and help
make Ubuntu 10.10, the Maverick Meerkat amazing!

Triage bugs!
Review patches!
(http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/07/14/operation-cleansweep-we-need-you/)
Help with packaging!
Try out Maverick!
Test the new installer!

Ralph Janke will be hosting this time.  He's got tonnes of experience
working with bugs and can help get you started.

It'll be awesome!

Darcy!



From chris at chrisirwin.ca  Thu Aug 19 14:50:09 2010
From: chris at chrisirwin.ca (Chris Irwin)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 14:50:09 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] setting up a multi-user git server
In-Reply-To: <4C6D63BC.6060805@ubuntu.com>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com> <759523235899133136@unknownmsgid>
	<4C6D63BC.6060805@ubuntu.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=j1nhgUVS_c7RJ4bQKu6G5viAc1PSF2uZQMoWa@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 13:02, Ralph Janke <txwikinger at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> Is the github code open source? If so where can you get the sources?

Gitorious is Open Source under the AGPL. That's why I use it instead of github.

http://gitorious.org/about

-- 
Chris Irwin
<chris at chrisirwin.ca>



From ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com  Thu Aug 19 16:01:50 2010
From: ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com (Lori Paniak)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:01:50 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Open source gigabit router on sale
Message-ID: <1282248110.2033.60.camel@callisto>

FYI:

The Netgear WNR3500L "Open source" gigabit router has been discussed on
this list previously.  I noticed that it is on sale this week at NCIX
for $40 off (now $89.99+shipping):

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=45501&vpn=WNR3500L-100NAS&manufacture=Netgear&promoid=1088


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From brian at nickle.ca  Thu Aug 19 16:39:47 2010
From: brian at nickle.ca (Brian Nickle)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:39:47 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Open source gigabit router on sale
In-Reply-To: <1282248110.2033.60.camel@callisto>
References: <1282248110.2033.60.camel@callisto>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimOZUf9wv6oLEzfiDMYkfgwPAHhxKF+evXt=yj1@mail.gmail.com>

I noticed that the  WNR3500L was available in store at best buy in London
for $119.

Not sure how this compares to ncix.com's shipping but it's great if your
into instant gratification.
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/netgear-netgear-wireless-n-gigabit-router-wnr3500l-100pas-wnr3500l-100pas/10146018.aspx?path=eddc8938269ef929380fd4eef385adb8en02

<http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/netgear-netgear-wireless-n-gigabit-router-wnr3500l-100pas-wnr3500l-100pas/10146018.aspx?path=eddc8938269ef929380fd4eef385adb8en02>Has
anyone on the list bought one of these and put openwrt onto it?

Brian
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From brian at nickle.ca  Thu Aug 19 16:41:20 2010
From: brian at nickle.ca (Brian Nickle)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:41:20 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Open source gigabit router on sale
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimOZUf9wv6oLEzfiDMYkfgwPAHhxKF+evXt=yj1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1282248110.2033.60.camel@callisto>
	<AANLkTimOZUf9wv6oLEzfiDMYkfgwPAHhxKF+evXt=yj1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=RVGioa-G8P7XXf2LYHJMiZwD4UNDaSj852p3C@mail.gmail.com>

BTW it even comes with a sticker on the front that says something to the
effect of capable of running open source firmware go to www.myopenrouter.com
.
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From webhost at kwlug.org  Thu Aug 19 22:02:49 2010
From: webhost at kwlug.org (webhost at kwlug.org)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 22:02:49 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux User Group new
	content notification: 2010-08-19 22:02
Message-ID: <E1OmGwT-0001IO-7A@astoria.ccjclearline.com>

Greetings mail-forum-merge,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recent comments - 1 new comment
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 new comment attached to Blog entry posted by Raul Suarez: Mandriva
2010 First impressions
   1. Thank you Gary,
&quot;I dispute by Raul Suarez
     http://kwlug.org/node/760#comment-770


-- 
This is an automatic e-mail from KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux
User Group.
To stop receiving these e-mails, change your notification preferences at
http://kwlug.org/user/28/notify




From gcooke at insurancesquared.com  Fri Aug 20 10:37:50 2010
From: gcooke at insurancesquared.com (Insurance Squared Inc.)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:37:50 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] saving and printing delays
Message-ID: <4C6E933E.6050307@insurancesquared.com>

I've got my wife/admin fully moved over to linux now.  With the nature 
of our business she scans and prints a lot of paper.

We're finding that if she scans say 20 pages, it can take minutes to 
save the file - and a similiarly long time to print.

Any idea on how to resolve this?  Not even sure where to start diagnosing.




From youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com  Fri Aug 20 10:40:26 2010
From: youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com (Joe Wennechuk)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:40:26 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] saving and printing delays
In-Reply-To: <4C6E933E.6050307@insurancesquared.com>
References: <4C6E933E.6050307@insurancesquared.com>
Message-ID: <BAY126-W61F4B2ED4B7DB806C04E7AF9F0@phx.gbl>


What is the dpi on the scans? Are you able to optimize the scans to remove artifacts?

Joseph Wennechuk
________________



 
> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:37:50 -0400
> From: gcooke at insurancesquared.com
> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> Subject: [kwlug-disc] saving and printing delays
> 
> I've got my wife/admin fully moved over to linux now. With the nature 
> of our business she scans and prints a lot of paper.
> 
> We're finding that if she scans say 20 pages, it can take minutes to 
> save the file - and a similiarly long time to print.
> 
> Any idea on how to resolve this? Not even sure where to start diagnosing.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
 		 	   		  
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From john at netdirect.ca  Fri Aug 20 12:09:52 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:09:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] saving and printing delays
Message-ID: <211f801cb4082$1fde0040$5f9a00c0$@ca>

Are you saving to a network? Local disk? Could this be an IO issue?

Other things is that it could be DNS lookup issue: bad server ip, private 
addr lookup.

Otherwise it sounds like a timeout, maybe a message bus or service.


----- Original Message -----
From: kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org <kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org>
To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
Sent: Fri Aug 20 10:37:50 2010
Subject: [kwlug-disc] saving and printing delays

I've got my wife/admin fully moved over to linux now.  With the nature
of our business she scans and prints a lot of paper.

We're finding that if she scans say 20 pages, it can take minutes to
save the file - and a similiarly long time to print.

Any idea on how to resolve this?  Not even sure where to start diagnosing.


_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org



From gcooke at insurancesquared.com  Fri Aug 20 12:21:43 2010
From: gcooke at insurancesquared.com (Insurance Squared Inc.)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:21:43 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] saving and printing delays
In-Reply-To: <211f801cb4082$1fde0040$5f9a00c0$@ca>
References: <211f801cb4082$1fde0040$5f9a00c0$@ca>
Message-ID: <4C6EAB97.3090906@insurancesquared.com>

Found it, for the saving anyway.  Turns out (like always) it was self 
evident.  The software had defaulted to compressing the files when 
saving.  Turn that off, and it worked fine (and no difference in file 
size, so I guess not much compression actually happening :) ).  Printing 
I'll still have to look at, but that's less urgent and may just be that 
I'm using wireless.



On 20/08/10 12:09 PM, John Van Ostrand wrote:
> Are you saving to a network? Local disk? Could this be an IO issue?
>
> Other things is that it could be DNS lookup issue: bad server ip, private
> addr lookup.
>
> Otherwise it sounds like a timeout, maybe a message bus or service.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org<kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org>
> To: KWLUG discussion<kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Sent: Fri Aug 20 10:37:50 2010
> Subject: [kwlug-disc] saving and printing delays
>
> I've got my wife/admin fully moved over to linux now.  With the nature
> of our business she scans and prints a lot of paper.
>
> We're finding that if she scans say 20 pages, it can take minutes to
> save the file - and a similiarly long time to print.
>
> Any idea on how to resolve this?  Not even sure where to start diagnosing.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>    

-- 
Glenn Cooke
Insurance Squared Inc.
(866) 779-1499
www.insurancesquared.com

Insurance Agent Discussion Forum:
www.americaninsurancebroker.com





From acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Aug 20 12:22:22 2010
From: acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Sullivan Cant)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 12:22:22 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Wall wart servers
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C6EABBE.2040700@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>

A possible cool application for these devices is the "Freedom Box".

Which is a concept described by Eben Moglen for a appliance device which 
will improve freedom by de-centralizing various cloud services, and 
providing various privacy enhancing capabilities.

He has talked about this in a few places, and videos are available:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7477852615698435519#
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/news/2010/feb/08/audio-and-video-eben-moglens-talk-freedom-cloud-no/
http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2010/debconf10/high/1252_How_We_Can_Be_the_Silver_Lining_of_the_Cloud.ogv


A starting point already exists in the Debian wiki, and includes lots of 
other links:
http://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox



Andrew




On 18/08/10 07:49 PM, Paul Gallaway wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 12:53 AM, Khalid Baheyeldin<kb at 2bits.com>  wrote:
>> Any other cool implementations?
>
> This came up on the mythtv users list today:
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/447531?search_string=sheeva;#447531
>
> Apparently there are at least two people who are using them as a
> master backend. Seems like an ideal mythtv scenario would be to use
> one as the master backend to wake up more powerful slave backends for
> recording, transcoding etc.
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Fri Aug 20 17:11:15 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 17:11:15 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] setting up a multi-user git server
In-Reply-To: <4C6CD662.4030501@gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimLYThs0yduEzB8yFoKfJTauod09LmiwnSYJqpB@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=ofEavjwyLN_qWXztpPt4v_2bs-RrixkkM4rWt@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C6CCAC5.3010903@gmail.com>
	<20100819064814.GA23603@foursquare.net>
	<4C6CD662.4030501@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100820211115.GA1543@foursquare.net>

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 02:59:46AM -0400, Johnny Ferguson wrote:
> I'm making this server to allow multiple users to collaborate on songs. 
> There's a program called renoise which stores projects as a tar file 
> containing sound samples and xml files containing the score information. 
> I remember hearing at the git presentation that git is able to see files 
> inside archives, so I'm thinking git would be able to avoid unnecessary 
> duplication of blobs as users make updates to a collaboration.

Ahem... looks like I am guilty of starting a rumour.

I was quite sure I'd seen information on this and so I mentioned it
at the git presentation, but now that I look for it, I'm not finding it.

Sorry about that.

What does appear to be possible, for files like compressed opendocument
files, is to add a command to git to recompress those files with -0,
(disabling compression) making them much more packable.

But in your case, you want to avoid duplication of identical binary files.
If you are able to somehow expand the tar file before committing to git,
then git will indeed reuse the same blobs for each identical WAV file.
But if everything is compressed into an opaque tarball, git will
store each one separately.

Again, sorry about the misdirection.

- Chris




From jdtech at rogers.com  Fri Aug 20 18:22:03 2010
From: jdtech at rogers.com (Jon L)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 15:22:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Tomcat/java assistance
Message-ID: <867363.19813.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Are there any of you knowledgeable in Tomcat/java that is willing to do a bit of 
paid work to help with a configuration issue?

We have a java application that is no longer accessible and need to get it up 
and running again.

If you are available and can help over the weekend please email me off the list 
or give me a call on (519) 240-2585

Thanks

Jon
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From webhost at kwlug.org  Fri Aug 20 22:02:53 2010
From: webhost at kwlug.org (webhost at kwlug.org)
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 22:02:53 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux User Group new
	content notification: 2010-08-20 22:02
Message-ID: <E1OmdQ5-0004qQ-6e@astoria.ccjclearline.com>

Greetings mail-forum-merge,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recent content - 1 new post
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Linux Mint Isadora KDE i386 first impressions
Published Blog entry by Raul Suarez
[ http://kwlug.org/node/761 ]

This time I decided to install Linux Mint Isadora KDE version. This may
sound unfair based my previous review of Mandriva as I've been using
Linux Mint for several releases but this is the first time I will use
the KDE version, though. 
I promise I'll try to be as picky and as unbiased as I possibly can.
The first thing that surprised me is that, although for the Gnome
version there is a Live CD which is just 674 MB and a Live DVD which is
763, There is only a DVD version for KDE a whopping 1.3 GB. Still better
than other distributions which are 2 to 4 GB. 
I downloaded the DVD version which is a Live version. Upon booting I got
a normal KDE screen with the Linux Mint background and a Install Linux
Mint icon on the desktop folder. The screen looks clean, nothing earth
shattering. But it is noticeable that it started on my card/monitor
recommended resolution, not the maximum. 
In the menu I can see that in includes a large number of applications, I
may need to do some clean up after I'm done. For example, It even comes
with Wine which I never use. I hope it only installs a basic set of
applications.
I tried to use some of the utilities but they weren't configured on the
Live CD. so I'll proceed to install by double clicking on the icon.
The installation is quite clean and clear. Quite visual with a very
simple language.
Oops, the partition editor cuts the name of the partitions, I can only
see /dev/sd... so I need to resize the columns.
A couple of questions and the installation starts. Hey, wait a second.
It never asked me if I wanted to install the boot loader or where I
wanted to install it. I Don't remember missing that question and if I
did then it is not very clear where the option is. 
The installation took less than 10 minutes and I reboot... At least the
boot loader found all my installations. 
Initial boot speed is good but KDE logging is very slow.
Upon boot I am welcomed by a message saying that I have 82 updates I
accept them and the update starts. All the messages are very short and
clear. 
While it installs I browse the menus. Oh, no! all the applications were
installed. Maybe that's good for some, but now I know why there is only
a large DVD version. This version of Mint comes with the kitchen sink.
Not a criticism. just an observation.
Dragon Player
VLC
MPlayer
Amarok
Songbird
KsCD
Each one a great player, but should they include them all? I don't think
so.
When I execute dragon Player it very nicely advises me that there are
packages that may improve my experience. I accept and... what? it
failed? I know it failed because the update manager was already running.
I think that there should have been a clearer message telling me that I
couldn't install it until the other application finished.
It's time to go to bed but I'll continue reporting tomorrow.
I just got distracted watching a movie. It is nice to have a distro that
you can start using as soon as you finish installing it.


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From webhost at kwlug.org  Sat Aug 21 23:02:57 2010
From: webhost at kwlug.org (webhost at kwlug.org)
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2010 23:02:57 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux User Group new
	content notification: 2010-08-21 23:02
Message-ID: <E1On0pl-0007HY-59@astoria.ccjclearline.com>

Greetings mail-forum-merge,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recent comments - 1 new comment
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 new comment attached to Blog entry posted by Raul Suarez: Mandriva
2010 First impressions
   1. Raul - thank you for the by bswitzer
     http://kwlug.org/node/760#comment-771


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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Sun Aug 22 03:03:45 2010
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 03:03:45 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Puppet partial config templates
Message-ID: <20100822070345.GC1654@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>

So I still don't understand Puppet -- I am very much in the reading
stages. I am sure this is a newbie complaint, but here goes: the
configuration files (in /etc) for many packages are pretty verbose.
They are well-commented and often specify options that I intentionally
don't touch. Instead, I change the one or two lines I care about and
move on with my life. 

As far as I can tell, Puppet .erb templates want me to reproduce
config files as templates, rather than edit the files directly.

Bad old cfengine2 had directives like "AppendIfNoSuchLine" that would allow 
you to concisely list the changes you want to make to config files.
I do not see how you do that in shiny beautiful Puppet. 

This matters to me because for the most part I trust the Debian
package maintainer's choices over my own judgement when it comes to
config files. If a Debian maintainer sets an option, I usually want to
agree with that option. I also appreciate the good comments in many
config files, and I want to keep them. But Puppet wants me to take
control of the config files entirely, which means that when there are
important new versions of the config files released, I have to
*manually* inspect files for differences. I don't like that -- I want
the Debian config file tools to handle as much of this as possible.
(Yes, I know that on upgrades sysadmins have to look at config files
manually sometimes, but I think the tools for handling this are
getting better, and Puppet undoes this.) 

I also want to highlight the important options that are being changed
in each file, and including only the changes in my Puppet
configuration seems like a good way to do this. 

What am I misunderstanding? 

- Paul

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From john at netdirect.ca  Sun Aug 22 08:25:00 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 08:25:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Puppet partial config templates
Message-ID: <2192001cb41f5$0a254a00$1e6fde00$@ca>

I don't use puppet (yet) but it seems to me that the purpose of using puppet 
to configure systems is to maintain both consistency and a centralized 
configuration.

The best way to maintain consistency is to replace the entire config. 
Editing commands like AppendIfNoSuchLine are not guaranteed to produce 
consistency.

The issue of upgrades is probably moot. Do upgrades in Debian replace 
existing config files? In RPM based distros they don't, a .rpmnew file is 
created and the admin has to manually integrate their changes into the new 
config if desired. So upgrades require me to scan for changes anyway or risk 
missing a new config or, in rare cases, have an upgraded package fail to 
work.

As for tracking changes isn't that what comments and RCS' are for?


----- Original Message -----
From: kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org <kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org>
To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
Sent: Sun Aug 22 03:03:45 2010
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Puppet partial config templates

So I still don't understand Puppet -- I am very much in the reading
stages. I am sure this is a newbie complaint, but here goes: the
configuration files (in /etc) for many packages are pretty verbose.
They are well-commented and often specify options that I intentionally
don't touch. Instead, I change the one or two lines I care about and
move on with my life.

As far as I can tell, Puppet .erb templates want me to reproduce
config files as templates, rather than edit the files directly.

Bad old cfengine2 had directives like "AppendIfNoSuchLine" that would allow
you to concisely list the changes you want to make to config files.
I do not see how you do that in shiny beautiful Puppet.

This matters to me because for the most part I trust the Debian
package maintainer's choices over my own judgement when it comes to
config files. If a Debian maintainer sets an option, I usually want to
agree with that option. I also appreciate the good comments in many
config files, and I want to keep them. But Puppet wants me to take
control of the config files entirely, which means that when there are
important new versions of the config files released, I have to
*manually* inspect files for differences. I don't like that -- I want
the Debian config file tools to handle as much of this as possible.
(Yes, I know that on upgrades sysadmins have to look at config files
manually sometimes, but I think the tools for handling this are
getting better, and Puppet undoes this.)

I also want to highlight the important options that are being changed
in each file, and including only the changes in my Puppet
configuration seems like a good way to do this.

What am I misunderstanding?

- Paul

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org


_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org



From webhost at kwlug.org  Sun Aug 22 23:03:01 2010
From: webhost at kwlug.org (webhost at kwlug.org)
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2010 23:03:01 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux User Group new
	content notification: 2010-08-22 23:03
Message-ID: <E1OnNJN-0005Pp-6e@astoria.ccjclearline.com>

Greetings mail-forum-merge,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recent comments - 2 new comments
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2 new comments attached to Blog entry posted by Raul Suarez: Mandriva
2010 First impressions
   1. @bswitzer:
Thank you for by Raul Suarez
     http://kwlug.org/node/760#comment-772

   2. - if we use the kwlug by bswitzer
     http://kwlug.org/node/760#comment-773


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From gwalsh at notw.ca  Mon Aug 23 08:34:40 2010
From: gwalsh at notw.ca (Gary Walsh)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:34:40 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Mandriva XfceLive 2010 Spring released
Message-ID: <1282566880.5738.15.camel@blackie>

For those who need a lighter live distro for an older computer.

http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/XfceLive_2010_Spring


-- 
Gary Walsh <gwalsh at notw.ca>




From txwikinger at ubuntu.com  Mon Aug 23 08:51:20 2010
From: txwikinger at ubuntu.com (Ralph Janke)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 08:51:20 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Puppet partial config templates
In-Reply-To: <2192001cb41f5$0a254a00$1e6fde00$@ca>
References: <2192001cb41f5$0a254a00$1e6fde00$@ca>
Message-ID: <4C726EC8.4000700@ubuntu.com>

Most configurations in /etc have now the possibility to load local files 
in addition to the maintainer provided configuration file in order to 
prevent the editing of files and the issues when updates are deployed 
(i.e. x.conf would load x.local.conf, x.conf should not be touched, 
x.local.conf will never be provided or overridden by the package).

The local files can then easily be deployed by the configuration 
management system since there is no need to worry about existing 
contents of those files.

Ralph (txwikinger)

On 08/22/2010 08:25 AM, John Van Ostrand wrote:
> I don't use puppet (yet) but it seems to me that the purpose of using puppet
> to configure systems is to maintain both consistency and a centralized
> configuration.
>
> The best way to maintain consistency is to replace the entire config.
> Editing commands like AppendIfNoSuchLine are not guaranteed to produce
> consistency.
>
> The issue of upgrades is probably moot. Do upgrades in Debian replace
> existing config files? In RPM based distros they don't, a .rpmnew file is
> created and the admin has to manually integrate their changes into the new
> config if desired. So upgrades require me to scan for changes anyway or risk
> missing a new config or, in rare cases, have an upgraded package fail to
> work.
>
> As for tracking changes isn't that what comments and RCS' are for?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org<kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org>
> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org<kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Sent: Sun Aug 22 03:03:45 2010
> Subject: [kwlug-disc] Puppet partial config templates
>
> So I still don't understand Puppet -- I am very much in the reading
> stages. I am sure this is a newbie complaint, but here goes: the
> configuration files (in /etc) for many packages are pretty verbose.
> They are well-commented and often specify options that I intentionally
> don't touch. Instead, I change the one or two lines I care about and
> move on with my life.
>
> As far as I can tell, Puppet .erb templates want me to reproduce
> config files as templates, rather than edit the files directly.
>
> Bad old cfengine2 had directives like "AppendIfNoSuchLine" that would allow
> you to concisely list the changes you want to make to config files.
> I do not see how you do that in shiny beautiful Puppet.
>
> This matters to me because for the most part I trust the Debian
> package maintainer's choices over my own judgement when it comes to
> config files. If a Debian maintainer sets an option, I usually want to
> agree with that option. I also appreciate the good comments in many
> config files, and I want to keep them. But Puppet wants me to take
> control of the config files entirely, which means that when there are
> important new versions of the config files released, I have to
> *manually* inspect files for differences. I don't like that -- I want
> the Debian config file tools to handle as much of this as possible.
> (Yes, I know that on upgrades sysadmins have to look at config files
> manually sometimes, but I think the tools for handling this are
> getting better, and Puppet undoes this.)
>
> I also want to highlight the important options that are being changed
> in each file, and including only the changes in my Puppet
> configuration seems like a good way to do this.
>
> What am I misunderstanding?
>
> - Paul
>
>    




From youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com  Mon Aug 23 11:01:47 2010
From: youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com (Joe Wennechuk)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 11:01:47 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Unlocking Android Desire
Message-ID: <BAY126-W238CEE2F25228C8DFA2695AF820@phx.gbl>


I am trying to unlock an android desre, and I can't seem to find a code, and can't find out why. It is brand new. Is it too new?? All of these unlock sites scare me. I don't know if I'm dealng with an honest person or not.

Joseph Wennechuk
________________


 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://kwlug.org/pipermail/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org/attachments/20100823/ee938e78/attachment.htm>

From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Mon Aug 23 09:50:14 2010
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 09:50:14 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Puppet partial config templates
In-Reply-To: <4C726EC8.4000700@ubuntu.com>
References: <2192001cb41f5$0a254a00$1e6fde00$@ca> <4C726EC8.4000700@ubuntu.com>
Message-ID: <20100823135014.GD1654@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 08:51:20AM -0400, Ralph Janke wrote:
> Most configurations in /etc have now the possibility to load local files  
> in addition to the maintainer provided configuration file in order to  
> prevent the editing of files and the issues when updates are deployed  
> (i.e. x.conf would load x.local.conf, x.conf should not be touched,  
> x.local.conf will never be provided or overridden by the package).

Is this a systemic change or is it done on a package by package basis?
I know that many packages in Debian are moving towards <package>.d/
directories for custom configuration. 

I guess this is a good approach for some cases. But it won't work for
the first two configuration files I want to change:
/etc/apticron/apticron.conf and /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf . 

I see John's point about maintaining consistency but that is not yet
what I want to do. I just want to ensure that certain files are
twiddled in certain ways. 

- Paul

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Mon Aug 23 19:55:05 2010
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2010 19:55:05 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day 2010 (18 September 2010)
In-Reply-To: <4C62DF5C.4000501@ubuntu.com>
References: <4C62DF5C.4000501@ubuntu.com>
Message-ID: <20100823235505.GD7238@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 01:35:24PM -0400, Ralph Janke wrote:
> I have tried to send this message now at least 4 times to the KWLUG  
> discussion list to no avail!
>
> Are there any plans yet for software freedom day this year? I have not  
> found an event yet on http://cgi.softwarefreedomday.org/2010/map.shtml

Darcy has kindly agreed to host at Kwartzlab. 

http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2010/NorthAmerica/Canada/Ontario/Waterloo/Kwartzlab

I am sure he would be happy to have some talks, demonstrations, and
organizing help. Who's on board for helping out this year? Last year
we had something like 70 people show up, which was a pretty amazing
turnout.

- Paul

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From adamglauser at gmail.com  Tue Aug 24 12:32:07 2010
From: adamglauser at gmail.com (Adam Glauser)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:32:07 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
Message-ID: <4C73F407.9070001@gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

The shadowy cabal finally got around to making the June(!) FLOSS Fund 
donation.  Here is the message received from the gPodder developer, 
Thomas Perl:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:33:46 +0200
From: Thomas Perl <thp at thpinfo.com>
To: Adam Glauser <adamglauser at gmail.com>

Hello, Adam!

On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 05:33:38PM -0700, adamglauser at gmail.com wrote:
> -----------------------------------
> Spendendetails
> -----------------------------------
> Gesamtbetrag: 42,00 EUR
> Best?tigungsnummer: 96P48091MR233513R
> Zweck: gPodder
> Spender: Adam Glauser
> Nachricht: On behalf of the Kitchener-Waterloo Linux Users' Group.
> http://kwlug.org
> -----------------------------------

Thank you very much for your donation, that's the single biggest
donation I've received since the gPodder project exists. I've now read
up on your "FLOSS Fund" page, and I think it's a great idea.

You'll find the name of your LUG in the "Thanks" page of the about
dialog in the upcoming version of gPodder :)

Please forward my Thank You to your LUG!


Greetings from Austria,
Thomas Perl




From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Tue Aug 24 12:46:53 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:46:53 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
In-Reply-To: <4C73F407.9070001@gmail.com>
References: <4C73F407.9070001@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100824164653.GA1013@foursquare.net>

That's great to see developers' appreciation.  Thanks for forwarding it,
and thanks for keeping the shadowy cabal going. :-)

- Chris


On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:32:07PM -0400, Adam Glauser wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> The shadowy cabal finally got around to making the June(!) FLOSS Fund 
> donation.  Here is the message received from the gPodder developer, 
> Thomas Perl:
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:33:46 +0200
> From: Thomas Perl <thp at thpinfo.com>
> To: Adam Glauser <adamglauser at gmail.com>
> 
> Hello, Adam!
> 
> On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 05:33:38PM -0700, adamglauser at gmail.com wrote:
> >-----------------------------------
> >Spendendetails
> >-----------------------------------
> >Gesamtbetrag: 42,00 EUR
> >Best?tigungsnummer: 96P48091MR233513R
> >Zweck: gPodder
> >Spender: Adam Glauser
> >Nachricht: On behalf of the Kitchener-Waterloo Linux Users' Group.
> >http://kwlug.org
> >-----------------------------------
> 
> Thank you very much for your donation, that's the single biggest
> donation I've received since the gPodder project exists. I've now read
> up on your "FLOSS Fund" page, and I think it's a great idea.
> 
> You'll find the name of your LUG in the "Thanks" page of the about
> dialog in the upcoming version of gPodder :)
> 
> Please forward my Thank You to your LUG!
> 
> 
> Greetings from Austria,
> Thomas Perl
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org



From acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Aug 24 15:34:56 2010
From: acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Sullivan Cant)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:34:56 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
In-Reply-To: <20100824164653.GA1013@foursquare.net>
References: <4C73F407.9070001@gmail.com> <20100824164653.GA1013@foursquare.net>
Message-ID: <4C741EE0.1030701@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>

Mwahahahah....
cough, cough

I mean, your welcome.

Andrew


On 24/08/10 12:46 PM, Chris Frey wrote:
> That's great to see developers' appreciation.  Thanks for forwarding it,
> and thanks for keeping the shadowy cabal going. :-)
>
> - Chris
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:32:07PM -0400, Adam Glauser wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> The shadowy cabal finally got around to making the June(!) FLOSS Fund
>> donation.  Here is the message received from the gPodder developer,
>> Thomas Perl:
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
>> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:33:46 +0200
>> From: Thomas Perl<thp at thpinfo.com>
>> To: Adam Glauser<adamglauser at gmail.com>
>>
>> Hello, Adam!
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 05:33:38PM -0700, adamglauser at gmail.com wrote:
>>> -----------------------------------
>>> Spendendetails
>>> -----------------------------------
>>> Gesamtbetrag: 42,00 EUR
>>> Best?tigungsnummer: 96P48091MR233513R
>>> Zweck: gPodder
>>> Spender: Adam Glauser
>>> Nachricht: On behalf of the Kitchener-Waterloo Linux Users' Group.
>>> http://kwlug.org
>>> -----------------------------------
>>
>> Thank you very much for your donation, that's the single biggest
>> donation I've received since the gPodder project exists. I've now read
>> up on your "FLOSS Fund" page, and I think it's a great idea.
>>
>> You'll find the name of your LUG in the "Thanks" page of the about
>> dialog in the upcoming version of gPodder :)
>>
>> Please forward my Thank You to your LUG!
>>
>>
>> Greetings from Austria,
>> Thomas Perl
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Tue Aug 24 14:42:11 2010
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:42:11 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
In-Reply-To: <4C73F407.9070001@gmail.com>
References: <4C73F407.9070001@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100824184211.GH7238@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:32:07PM -0400, Adam Glauser wrote:
>
> Thank you very much for your donation, that's the single biggest
> donation I've received since the gPodder project exists. I've now read
> up on your "FLOSS Fund" page, and I think it's a great idea.

It is nice that Thomas is appreciative, but it is sad that
we have made the biggest donation in this amazing software's history.
It wasn't even that much money.

- Paul

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From kb at 2bits.com  Tue Aug 24 16:14:57 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:14:57 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
In-Reply-To: <4C741EE0.1030701@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <4C73F407.9070001@gmail.com> <20100824164653.GA1013@foursquare.net>
	<4C741EE0.1030701@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikQgU_LdxVz+q7zGmYsXMRUvqK37d-OHSUjYiy1@mail.gmail.com>

So the Cabal is not longer the Secret Cabal?

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Andrew Sullivan Cant <
acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

> Mwahahahah....
> cough, cough
>
> I mean, your welcome.
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> On 24/08/10 12:46 PM, Chris Frey wrote:
>
>> That's great to see developers' appreciation.  Thanks for forwarding it,
>> and thanks for keeping the shadowy cabal going. :-)
>>
>> - Chris
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:32:07PM -0400, Adam Glauser wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> The shadowy cabal finally got around to making the June(!) FLOSS Fund
>>> donation.  Here is the message received from the gPodder developer,
>>> Thomas Perl:
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
>>> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:33:46 +0200
>>> From: Thomas Perl<thp at thpinfo.com>
>>> To: Adam Glauser<adamglauser at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Hello, Adam!
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 05:33:38PM -0700, adamglauser at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------
>>>> Spendendetails
>>>> -----------------------------------
>>>> Gesamtbetrag: 42,00 EUR
>>>> Best?tigungsnummer: 96P48091MR233513R
>>>> Zweck: gPodder
>>>> Spender: Adam Glauser
>>>> Nachricht: On behalf of the Kitchener-Waterloo Linux Users' Group.
>>>> http://kwlug.org
>>>> -----------------------------------
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you very much for your donation, that's the single biggest
>>> donation I've received since the gPodder project exists. I've now read
>>> up on your "FLOSS Fund" page, and I think it's a great idea.
>>>
>>> You'll find the name of your LUG in the "Thanks" page of the about
>>> dialog in the upcoming version of gPodder :)
>>>
>>> Please forward my Thank You to your LUG!
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings from Austria,
>>> Thomas Perl
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>



-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From kb at 2bits.com  Tue Aug 24 16:17:24 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:17:24 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
In-Reply-To: <20100824184211.GH7238@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <4C73F407.9070001@gmail.com>
	<20100824184211.GH7238@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinbUSarOX2npeVbHiSt3w5xNALTzgY4=T0BGsH2@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:32:07PM -0400, Adam Glauser wrote:
> >
> > Thank you very much for your donation, that's the single biggest
> > donation I've received since the gPodder project exists. I've now read
> > up on your "FLOSS Fund" page, and I think it's a great idea.
>
> It is nice that Thomas is appreciative, but it is sad that
> we have made the biggest donation in this amazing software's history.
> It wasn't even that much money.
>

My experience with donations for the Drupal modules and articles is similar.
No donation larger than $20, and perhaps 10 or donations over 3 or 4 years.

Still 42 Euro as the highest donation for a software that has much more
exposure than Drupal modules is too low ...
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From brian at nickle.ca  Tue Aug 24 19:39:23 2010
From: brian at nickle.ca (Brian Nickle)
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:39:23 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Unlocking Android Desire
In-Reply-To: <BAY126-W238CEE2F25228C8DFA2695AF820@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY126-W238CEE2F25228C8DFA2695AF820@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimin=NeFnUmjbBPMaUL2GcrnCfwY95B7esTkJVY@mail.gmail.com>

Check out xda-developers.com they are a great source for HTC hacking. Also
check Howard forums Canadian specific info

On Aug 23, 2010 11:02 AM, "Joe Wennechuk" <youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
> I am trying to unlock an android desre, and I can't seem to find a code,
and can't find out why. It is brand new. Is it too new?? All of these unlock
sites scare me. I don't know if I'm dealng with an honest person or not.
>
> Joseph Wennechuk
> ________________
>
>
>
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From dcarr at SDF.LONESTAR.ORG  Thu Aug 26 07:18:29 2010
From: dcarr at SDF.LONESTAR.ORG (lloyd carr)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:18:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
In-Reply-To: <20100824184211.GH7238@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <4C73F407.9070001@gmail.com>
	<20100824184211.GH7238@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.1008261048160.27330@sverige.freeshell.org>

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Paul Nijjar wrote:

> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:42:11 -0400
> From: Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>
> Reply-To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
> 
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:32:07PM -0400, Adam Glauser wrote:
>>
>> Thank you very much for your donation, that's the single biggest
>> donation I've received since the gPodder project exists. I've now read
>> up on your "FLOSS Fund" page, and I think it's a great idea.
>
> It is nice that Thomas is appreciative, but it is sad that
> we have made the biggest donation in this amazing software's history.
> It wasn't even that much money.
>
> - Paul

I agree it's a small amount, but if it served as a significant 
encouragement to Thomas to produce great FOSS and his appreciation 
in turn encourages us to contribute to the FOSS Fund, we should be 
trying to thinking of ways to expand and amplify this virtuous circle.

- Lloyd

dcarr at sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org



From dscassel at gmail.com  Thu Aug 26 17:42:52 2010
From: dscassel at gmail.com (Darcy Casselman)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:42:52 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SFD: Call for volunteers!
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=dSSnhQYLdYnGL2Cp9t80eAxqMaJH7XCDDfYV9@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

Apparently I'm hosting Software Freedom Day this year.  Go me!

Uh, except it's three weeks away and I'm already swamped.

It'll be September 18 at Kwartzlab.

Here's what I need:

* Flyers and posters!
* Installfest installers
* Demo presenters
* Runners and gofers
* You tell me!

Have an idea for something you'd like to do?  Go ahead and suggest it.

We'll have raffles and prizes and all sorts of fun stuff.  It'll be
awesome!  With your help, it'll be *even more* awesome!

Let me know if you can help, on- or off-list.

Darcy.



From msavageca at yahoo.ca  Thu Aug 26 18:27:01 2010
From: msavageca at yahoo.ca (Michael Savage)
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 18:27:01 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SFD: Call for volunteers!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=dSSnhQYLdYnGL2Cp9t80eAxqMaJH7XCDDfYV9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=dSSnhQYLdYnGL2Cp9t80eAxqMaJH7XCDDfYV9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C76EA35.2000204@yahoo.ca>

  Give me details... I can be a good gofer... I worked for an uncle one 
summer as a teenage gofer... He said I was the best gofer he ever had! 
Hah, hah, hah...

Hope I can be of service,
Mike

On 26/08/2010 5:42 PM, Darcy Casselman wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Apparently I'm hosting Software Freedom Day this year.  Go me!
>
> Uh, except it's three weeks away and I'm already swamped.
>
> It'll be September 18 at Kwartzlab.
>
> Here's what I need:
>
> * Flyers and posters!
> * Installfest installers
> * Demo presenters
> * Runners and gofers
> * You tell me!
>
> Have an idea for something you'd like to do?  Go ahead and suggest it.
>
> We'll have raffles and prizes and all sorts of fun stuff.  It'll be
> awesome!  With your help, it'll be *even more* awesome!
>
> Let me know if you can help, on- or off-list.
>
> Darcy.
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>




From txwikinger at ubuntu.com  Fri Aug 27 09:24:48 2010
From: txwikinger at ubuntu.com (Ralph Janke)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 09:24:48 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Reminder: [KwartzLab] Ubuntu Global Jam: August 28 at
	Kwartzlab
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimBuwrAAcuttih0VXAFO00e8gS1EKKMo68_1xNr@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimBuwrAAcuttih0VXAFO00e8gS1EKKMo68_1xNr@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C77BCA0.4030908@ubuntu.com>

Reminder for the Ubuntu Global Jam tomorrow at 1pm at the kwartlab.

I hope to see as many of you as possible :)

Ralph (txwikinger)


On 08/19/2010 01:25 PM, Darcy Casselman wrote:
> Ubuntu Waterloo and Kwartzlab are hosting the Ubuntu Global Jam for
> Waterloo region next Saturday, Aug 28.
>
> Details and sign up here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/257/detail/
>
> Ubuntu needs your help!  This is your change to get involved and help
> make Ubuntu 10.10, the Maverick Meerkat amazing!
>
> Triage bugs!
> Review patches!
> (http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/07/14/operation-cleansweep-we-need-you/)
> Help with packaging!
> Try out Maverick!
> Test the new installer!
>
> Ralph Janke will be hosting this time.  He's got tonnes of experience
> working with bugs and can help get you started.
>
> It'll be awesome!
>
> Darcy!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at kwartzlab.ca
> http://kwartzlab.ca/mailman/listinfo/discuss_kwartzlab.ca
>    




From john at netdirect.ca  Fri Aug 27 10:02:38 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 10:02:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] New Learning Resource
Message-ID: <31736764.3022.1282917758053.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>

Hi All,

I've added a new menu item to the KW LUG web site and added some content underneath. The tab is "Learning" (http://kwlug.org/learning).

I've started a series of articles on Bash and I'll be contributing more every once in a while. If you use bash already don't bother reading it. If you're new to Bash it might be a quick read with a useful byte or two of information. I plan tutorials on editing and history, file globbing, piping, redirection, environment and other bash details. I'd also like to add a 'vi' set of articles as well. Don't expect an 'emacs' complement from me though.

In the future, if I see more content being created (ahem, hint...) I'll expand or refine this part of the site.

I notice a Mandriva review (thanks Raul) and I think that makes for good content. I'll have to think about how I'm going to link reviews in.

If you create Learning content make sure you pick a suitable Taxonomy term. It will be evident when you write the article.

-- 
John Van Ostrand 
CTO, co-CEO 
Net Direct Inc. 
564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 
Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102 
Fx: 519-883-8533 

Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware 




From rarsa at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 27 15:51:31 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:51:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
In-Reply-To: <20100824184211.GH7238@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <306856.55369.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I thought the same.

This highlights the importance of the FLOSS fund. Of course "someone else" may be donating but it seems that's not always the case.

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts


--- On Tue, 8/24/10, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> From: Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: Thanks for the gPodder donation!
> To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Received: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 2:42 PM
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:32:07PM
> -0400, Adam Glauser wrote:
> >
> > Thank you very much for your donation, that's the
> single biggest
> > donation I've received since the gPodder project
> exists. I've now read
> > up on your "FLOSS Fund" page, and I think it's a great
> idea.
> 
> It is nice that Thomas is appreciative, but it is sad that
> we have made the biggest donation in this amazing
> software's history.
> It wasn't even that much money.
> 
> - Paul
> 
> -- 
> http://pnijjar.freeshell.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 





From webhost at kwlug.org  Fri Aug 27 23:04:50 2010
From: webhost at kwlug.org (webhost at kwlug.org)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 23:04:50 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux User Group new
	content notification: 2010-08-27 23:04
Message-ID: <E1OpBis-000413-Ly@astoria.ccjclearline.com>

Greetings mail-forum-merge,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recent content - 4 new posts
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Bash: The Linux Command Line
Published Book page by john
[ http://kwlug.org/node/762 ]

If you are like many Linux users you're first view of Linux was the
graphical user interface (GUI). If you're adventurous or curious and
have tried to do some advanced things with LInux you may have
encountered the Linux command line. Like all operating systems there is
a low-level interface that opens up all the power of the operating
system. In Linux the command line is so powerful that many advanced
users use it for so many tasks that it becomes indispensable. Those who
use it find it easier, faster and more powerful that the graphical
tools.
Graphical tools have the advantage of being more intuitive so new users
can become effective very fast. However mouse clicks and hunting and
searching for menu options and icons are often very slow for many tasks
making the command line faster for lots of operations. 
Command line environments are not as intuitive as GUIs. This set of
articles is designed to help users get accustomed to Bash.

---

2. Bash Basics - For New Users
Published Book page by john
[ http://kwlug.org/node/763 ]

If you're new to Linux and Unixes in general, then you are new to Bash.
Bash is the command line shell that is the default for most Linux
distros. 
What is Bash
You probably already know that the command line is the most basic way of
interacting with the operating system. Bash is the default command line
and is very powerful on Linux in fact the operating system actually
boots using mostly Bash commands. If it can boot an operating system
imagine what you can do with it. It's used to automate complex jobs
through scripting, when learned it can be used more quickly and more
effectively than the GUI for many tasks, and it allows you to access
many of the top-quality tools that don't have a GUI interface.
Getting into Bash
You can get to the command line in many ways. You can choose the
"Terminal" or "Console" item from the GUI menu, this will launch an
X-Windows terminal emulator with a bash shell running inside. You can
also use one of the virtual text consoles. Pressing Ctrl-Alt and a
function key at the same time switches to another virtual console. Most
GUIs have Ctrl-Alt-F2 as a text console. To return to the GUI try
Ctrl-Alt-F1 through to F8 to find the GUI console. Finally another way
to obtain a shell prompt is over the network using SSH. With SSH you log
into your computer using the same user and password as your GUI and are
presented with a Bash shell.
Core ideas of Bash
Using the command line can be quite simple. The term "command line" is
suitable, you type a command, press Enter and Bash executes the command.
Most commands take additional arguments. Consider the cd command, this
command changes the current directory, i.e. the directory that
subsequent commands will work in. Think of it like opening a new folder
in a GUI environment. The cd command can work without any arguments,
entering cd on the command line and pressing the Enter key will change
the current directory to your user's home directory. That's useful, but
you first had to be somewhere else. To get somewhere else type in a
directory name after the cd command, e.g. cd /tmp. This changes the
current directory to /tmp, a system-wide directory for holding all sorts
of temporary files.
You'll notice something about the cd command we just used. The command
was first on the line and the argument after it. You'll also notice that
a space was used to separate the command from the argument, this is
required. 
Let's take a look at another command. The cp command copies files and
takes two or more arguments. It takes one or more files to copy and a
destination. The destination can be either a new file name in which case
the file is renamed, or it can be a destination directory to which the
file(s) are copied in which case the file names don't change.

cp my_report.txt MyReport.txt
cp baked_beans.txt corn_bread.txt documents/recipies
What really are commands?
Commands come in two general varieties. There are built-in commands that
are programmed into the Bash shell. These are often simple commands or
ones that are designed to affect how Bash works. The command we used
above, cd is a built-in command. When Bash sees that you've typed a
built-in command it interprets that command itself.
The other type of command is an executable program. This can be a
compiled executable that exists as a binary, machine language program,
or it can be a script or any other type of interpreted program. Scripts
are text files that are interpreted by another program. Some scripts are
Bash scripts written to be interpreted by the Bash shell.
All non-built-in commands are files.
Options
We have seen that commands can take arguments, they can also take
options. What is the difference between an option and an argument? Well
there really isn't anything technically different, options can be
thought of as a specific type of argument. It's a customary thing
really. Options are switches that change the function of the command
where a arguments are thought of as the object the command is working
with. This isn't an absolute truth since it's up to the programmer of
the command to determine how the arguments are used.
Options are arguments that begin with one or more hyphens (-). They
change how the command operates. Take the -i of the mv command, which
moves files. The -i switch makes the mv command prompt before
overwriting files.

mv -i baked_beans.txt corn_bread.txt documents/recipes

Some options themselves require an additional argument. Take the mail
command, it can be used to send email. The arguments are a list of email
addresses to send the email to. Optionally subject line text can be
specified on the command line:

mail -s "Buy Viagra Now" john at sucker.com charles at filter.com

In the above case the -s option requires the subject line text to
follow. I had to put the text in quotes because it includes spaces. If I
didn't then Bash would think that the subject line was "Buy" and the
other words would be email addresses.
More recently programmers have started using longer option names, either
because it makes them more memorable, or because they ran out of single
letter options. These new-style options customarily begin with two
hyphens (--).
We can see this in the ls command. This command lists files and is one
of the oldest commands and has a huge list of possible options. We will
use the -all option. Normally ls will not list hidden files, the --all
option causes ls to display hidden files as well.

ls --all 
More Commands
There are a lot of command available for use in Linux. On my laptop,
which doesn't have everything installed, there are over 4,000 commands.
You can see a long list of commands by looking in the /bin and /usr/bin
directories. 

ls /bin /usr/bin

These are the main directories for user programs. If you want to know
more about a program then use the man program, it displays the manual
page for a specific command. To see the man page for the ls command type
man ls.
You can find a list of the built-in commands by looking at the man page
for Bash (man bash) and searching for the SHELL BUILTIN heading (hint:
while viewing the page type /^SHELL BUILTIN and press Enter.)

---

3. Bash Environment Variables
Published Book page by john
[ http://kwlug.org/node/764 ]

The shell is configured in a few different ways, but one of the main
ways is through what are called environment variables. These variables
are not only used by the shell, but can be accessed by all Linux
programs.
To explain environment variables I'll start by showing one of the most
basic variables, the PATH variable. This variable defines which
directories are searched to find commands. So when you type a command
like vi the Bash shell looks at the contents of the PATH variable and
searches each of the directories for a file called vi. The first one
that is found is executed. So let's look at the contents of PATH by
typing this into a shell prompt:

echo $PATH

You might see something like this:

/usr/lib/qt-3.3/bin:/usr/kerberos/sbin:/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/lib/ccache:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin

We used the echo command to print something to the screen and if we put
a dollar sign in front of an environment variable name the shell
actually substitutes the contents of the variable before running the
command line.
The above is my PATH variable and it shows many directories are
separated with colons.
Another way to look at environment variables is the set command. Run set
and you see a huge list of variables that exist.
To set or change a variable you can use the following syntax:

VARIABLE="value"

Commonly we might add something to PATH. For example you may create
scripts in a bin directory in your home directory and want to run these
without putting a full path name in for each command. This is a special
example because we want to add to the value not replace it. To do this
we can use the PATH variable while setting it. So to add /home/john/bin
to the PATH we would run:

PATH="$PATH:/home/john/bin"

In the above example, Bash substitutes $PATH for the contents of the
PATH variable before assigning the new value to PATH. This way the new
directory is added to the end.
Environment variables also have a certain property. We often want
processes that we run from a shell to inherit the environment variables
that we set. If we simply define variables like above it only affects
the variable for this shell and not child programs. To allow subsequent
programs to inherit the variable we need to export the variable:

export PATH
Shell Prompt
One other common use for environment variables is to redefine what the
shell prompt looks like. This is held in the PS1 and PS2 variables.
Setting PS1='$ ' sets the command prompt to a very simple dollar sign.
If you want to get elaborate there are many variables that you can put
into the command prompt so that it displays things like the host name,
current directory, date and other variable facts. Let's change this to
the host name and current directory. To do this we will use the \h and
\w variables. In order for the backslash characters to be left alone we
need to make sure that we use single quotes, not double quotes when we
set the variable.

PS1='\h@[\w]$ '
export PS1

To find other variables to use in prompts view the man page for bash
(i.e. run man bash) and search for the PROMPTING section.
Clearing variables
One may think that by setting a variable to an empty string will clear
it. In fact it does not. There is a different between an unset variable
and variable that is set to an empty string. 
To delete a variable use the unset command:

unset PS1

This will make your prompt nothing. To restore it repeat the PS1 setting
in the Shell Prompt section above.
Making permanent changes
You will find that any changes that you make in the shell only work for
that shell instance and any shell or program launched from it. As soon
as you exit the shell the environment is lost.
All these changes disappear when you exit the shell. If you want to
configure a variable that is permanent edit the .bashrc file in your
home directory and add the above lines to the end of the file. You may
also find environment variables set in your .profile file as well,
although changes to this file will require logging out of the GUI and
back in to see the changes.
System-Wide Changes
There are other places where environment variables are set. You can set
them for all users in the /etc/profile and /etc/bashrc files.
How Other Programs Use Environment Variables
Programs other than Bash can be configured using environment variables
too. One that comes to mind is rsync. This program synchronises files
between two directories even if they are on different servers. It uses a
few different variables but the one I use most is RSYNC_RSH which tells
rsync to use ssh to connect to remote servers.
The easist way to see if a program uses environment variables is to look
at its man page. Search the page for the word ENV.
Other ways to set Variables
When executing another program you can specify environment variables
before the name of the command. So to set rsync to use ssh we need to
set the RSYNC_RSH variable. We could set as we have done above and
export it, or we can specify it on the command line before the command:

RSYNC_RSH=ssh rsync /source/dir /dest/dir

The variable is passed to the command but is never set in the current
shell. We can demonstrate this by running bash and giving an echo
command as an argument:

H=Hello W=World bash -c 'echo sub shell: $H $W'
echo 'this shell: $H $W'

We see the words "sub shell: Hello World" printed to the screen. If we
were to repeat the same echo command on the next line by itself it would
print only "this shell:" because the variables were never set in the
current shell.
NOTE: The use of single quotes is important. Any dollar signs used
within single quotes are not interpreted as variable names. This way the
bash sub shell actually sees the dollar signs. If we used double quotes
the current shell would replace the variables before the sub shell was
executed.

---

4. Bash Aliases and Functions
Published Book page by john
[ http://kwlug.org/node/765 ]

Aliases and functions are interesting ways to customize Bash. You can
create handy short forms and simplify complex commands.
Aliases
Within Bash one can create different names for commands. Aside from
simply creating a different name, the command can include options and
other arguments. This is called an alias in Bash.
Creating aliases are easy. Let's create a simple alias for the ls
command that does a long listing, i.e. a listing with permissions, file
size and date. I type ls -l very often and it would be handy to not have
to type out the whole thing every time. I know, it's only 4 characters
(there's a space), but those keys can add up over time and carpel tunnel
syndrome is a serious career risk for people like me.
So let's shorten it to a single simple l using an alias with this
command:

alias l='ls -l'

Once set we can now use the l command and it works just like typing the
whole thing out.
We can see what aliases are set using the alias command all by itself:

alias

After we have set the above alias it should look like:

alias l='ls -l'

We can use aliases like real commands providing options and arguments.
When specified additional options or arguments are added to the end of
the aliased command. Let's say we want to add the -h option (make file
size human readable) when we run l and we also want to list a specific
file:

l -h .bashrc

>From the results it's as if we typed this command: ls -l -h .bashrc.
We can delete an alias using the unalias command. If we also use the -a
option of this command it removes all aliases:

unalias l
Alias Scope
Aliases have a limited scope in that they are only available to the
shell in which they were defined. Subshells do not see them, nor can
they inherit them.
To make an alias available to all shells define the alias in your
.bashrc file or in the system-wide /etc/bashrc file.
Alias Limitations
Aliases are limited in that any arguments are added to the end of the
aliased command. Although we make an alias out of a complex command the
arguments always go the end. So let's say we want to add paging to our l
command by piping the result through less, we might try this:

alias l='ls -l | less'

When we use the l command without an alias it works as expected but as
soon as we add a file name it, say the same .bashrc. When we try this we
see the .bashrc file listed to the screen. That's because the actual
command executed is ls -l | less .bashrc
Because of this limitation we can't do many other neat things. This is
where we can use functions.
Functions
Functions are more powerful than aliases. Not only can we re-arrange
parameters but we can actually create simple programs using them.
The topic of functions really becomes a programming lesson quickly so
I'll only go into a few simple examples here to solve the limitations of
alias.
Let's say we want to achieve the last failed example, we want to page
the output of ls -l. we would write a function like this:

unalias l
l() {
    ls -l "$@" | less;
}

I've used separate lines to write this function but it can all be put on
a single line if that's more convenient. It's proper programming style
to have it on seprate lines.
When you type this in you'll notice that you get a different prompt
after the first line. This is the PS2 prompt that we talked about in the
Bash Environment Variables page. This prompt means that the command is
not complete. Once you type the closing brace (}) you will be back to
the normal prompt.
Notice that I've also deleted the l alias. This is because both cannot
exist at the same time.
With the l function created you can now use it like a command. Feel free
to create more complex multi-line functions that do very complex things
if you like.
To see the functions you've created run the set command. The functions
will listed after the environment variables.
Functions can be deleted using the unset command:

unset l
Function Scope
Functions are also local to the instance of bash in which they are
created. To make it available to sub shells add it to your .bashrc file
or the system-wide /etc/bashrc file.


-- 
This is an automatic e-mail from KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux
User Group.
To stop receiving these e-mails, change your notification preferences at
http://kwlug.org/user/28/notify




From hyperflexed at gmail.com  Fri Aug 27 23:42:30 2010
From: hyperflexed at gmail.com (Johnny Ferguson)
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 23:42:30 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SFD: Call for volunteers!
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=dSSnhQYLdYnGL2Cp9t80eAxqMaJH7XCDDfYV9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=dSSnhQYLdYnGL2Cp9t80eAxqMaJH7XCDDfYV9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C7885A6.3000506@gmail.com>

On 08/26/2010 05:42 PM, Darcy Casselman wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Apparently I'm hosting Software Freedom Day this year.  Go me!
>
> Uh, except it's three weeks away and I'm already swamped.
>
> It'll be September 18 at Kwartzlab.
>
> Here's what I need:
>
> * Flyers and posters!

If given some specifications on what needs to be on such a flyer/poster, 
I'm sure I could whip something snazzy up in Inkscape.

1. Event Title
2. Location (with full address)
3. Time
4. Contact or Website for more info
5. Any sponsorships/partnerships/other-ships, logos, or names to be dropped.
6. Perhaps a small listing of activities available at this event

-Johnny

> * Installfest installers
> * Demo presenters
> * Runners and gofers
> * You tell me!
>
> Have an idea for something you'd like to do?  Go ahead and suggest it.
>
> We'll have raffles and prizes and all sorts of fun stuff.  It'll be
> awesome!  With your help, it'll be *even more* awesome!
>
> Let me know if you can help, on- or off-list.
>
> Darcy.
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From bjonkman at sobac.com  Sat Aug 28 11:29:30 2010
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 11:29:30 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] New Learning Resource
In-Reply-To: <31736764.3022.1282917758053.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
References: <31736764.3022.1282917758053.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
Message-ID: <1283009370.1910.58.camel@niven-lucidlynx>

Is it possible to get an Atom/RSS feed for the Learning articles?

--Bob.

(the link is http://kwlug.org/Learning )


On Fri, 2010-08-27 at 10:02 -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I've added a new menu item to the KW LUG web site and added some content underneath. The tab is "Learning" (http://kwlug.org/learning).
> 
> I've started a series of articles on Bash and I'll be contributing more every once in a while. If you use bash already don't bother reading it. If you're new to Bash it might be a quick read with a useful byte or two of information. I plan tutorials on editing and history, file globbing, piping, redirection, environment and other bash details. I'd also like to add a 'vi' set of articles as well. Don't expect an 'emacs' complement from me though.
> 
> In the future, if I see more content being created (ahem, hint...) I'll expand or refine this part of the site.
> 
> I notice a Mandriva review (thanks Raul) and I think that makes for good content. I'll have to think about how I'm going to link reviews in.
> 
> If you create Learning content make sure you pick a suitable Taxonomy term. It will be evident when you write the article.
> 

-- 

Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>         http://sobac.com/sobac/
SOBAC Microcomputer Services              Voice: +1-519-669-0388
6 James Street, Elmira ON  Canada  N3B 1L5  Cel: +1-519-635-9413
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting





From john at netdirect.ca  Sat Aug 28 13:22:56 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:22:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] New Learning Resource
In-Reply-To: <1283009370.1910.58.camel@niven-lucidlynx>
Message-ID: <14198080.3229.1283016176947.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>

----- Original Message -----
> Is it possible to get an Atom/RSS feed for the Learning articles?

That's a Drupal question. I'm sure it's possible I can look. What's an Atom feed?

-- 
John Van Ostrand 
CTO, co-CEO 
Net Direct Inc. 
564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 
Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102 
Fx: 519-883-8533 

Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware 




From kb at 2bits.com  Sat Aug 28 13:27:00 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:27:00 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] New Learning Resource
In-Reply-To: <14198080.3229.1283016176947.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
References: <1283009370.1910.58.camel@niven-lucidlynx>
	<14198080.3229.1283016176947.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=uaiY0W+tURjLx+TSLQFG6hUZV_FPDLiS+QM6u@mail.gmail.com>

John

This is setup as a view from what I can tell.

If you are on Drupal 5, you need the views bonus module and then create an
RSS view off that.

On Drupal 6 it is easier, since you do it via a display and there is no need
for an additional module.


On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 1:22 PM, John Van Ostrand <john at netdirect.ca> wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> > Is it possible to get an Atom/RSS feed for the Learning articles?
>
> That's a Drupal question. I'm sure it's possible I can look. What's an Atom
> feed?
>
> --
> John Van Ostrand
> CTO, co-CEO
> Net Direct Inc.
> 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6
> Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102
> Fx: 519-883-8533
>
> Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>



-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From john at netdirect.ca  Sat Aug 28 13:35:18 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:35:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] New Learning Resource
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=uaiY0W+tURjLx+TSLQFG6hUZV_FPDLiS+QM6u@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14519148.3231.1283016918802.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>

----- Original Message -----
> This is setup as a view from what I can tell.
> 
> If you are on Drupal 5, you need the views bonus module and then
> create an RSS view off that.
> 
> On Drupal 6 it is easier, since you do it via a display and there is
> no need for an additional module.

That was easy. Views_rss was already installed. You can access the tutorials at http://kwlug.org/Learning/rss (that's a capital 'L' on learning.)


I've been adding pages under the Bash book that are not tagged as learning because they are referenced from the top-level. You won't see changes as I add pages to that.

-- 
John Van Ostrand 
CTO, co-CEO 
Net Direct Inc. 
564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 
Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102 
Fx: 519-883-8533 

Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware 




From john at netdirect.ca  Sat Aug 28 13:40:05 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:40:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] New Learning Resource
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=uaiY0W+tURjLx+TSLQFG6hUZV_FPDLiS+QM6u@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <31433577.3233.1283017205414.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>

----- Original Message -----
> This is setup as a view from what I can tell.
> 
> If you are on Drupal 5, you need the views bonus module and then
> create an RSS view off that.
> 
> On Drupal 6 it is easier, since you do it via a display and there is
> no need for an additional module.

I also added a general RSS feed of the latest additions/updates. It can be found at http://kwlug.org/rss




From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Sat Aug 28 14:18:15 2010
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 14:18:15 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] New Learning Resource
In-Reply-To: <31433577.3233.1283017205414.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
References: <AANLkTi=uaiY0W+tURjLx+TSLQFG6hUZV_FPDLiS+QM6u@mail.gmail.com>
	<31433577.3233.1283017205414.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
Message-ID: <20100828181815.GA12889@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 01:40:05PM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote:
> > 
> > On Drupal 6 it is easier, since you do it via a display and there is
> > no need for an additional module.
> 

> I also added a general RSS feed of the latest additions/updates. It
> can be found at http://kwlug.org/rss

That's pretty awesome. Thanks. 

- Paul

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From john at netdirect.ca  Sat Aug 28 15:54:15 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:54:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] RSS Usage
Message-ID: <27260305.3235.1283025255171.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>

Hi All,

With the interest in RSS feeds lately I began wondering if I'm underutilizing RSS. I have some set up as live bookmarks in Firefox, but that requires me to remember to check them. There isn't any indication of new content.

What tools are people using to push RSS feed updates to them?

-- 
John Van Ostrand 
CTO, co-CEO 
Net Direct Inc. 
564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 
Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102 
Fx: 519-883-8533 

Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware 




From bbierman42 at gmail.com  Sat Aug 28 16:17:32 2010
From: bbierman42 at gmail.com (Brad Bierman)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 16:17:32 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] RSS Usage
In-Reply-To: <27260305.3235.1283025255171.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
References: <27260305.3235.1283025255171.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
Message-ID: <-2175883422803984040@unknownmsgid>

I've been using Google reader for my feeds. I switched from
applications about three years ago.


Brad



On 2010-08-28, at 15:54, John Van Ostrand <john at netdirect.ca> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> With the interest in RSS feeds lately I began wondering if I'm underutilizing RSS. I have some set up as live bookmarks in Firefox, but that requires me to remember to check them. There isn't any indication of new content.
>
> What tools are people using to push RSS feed updates to them?
>
> --
> John Van Ostrand
> CTO, co-CEO
> Net Direct Inc.
> 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6
> Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102
> Fx: 519-883-8533
>
> Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org



From jeff.w.bulk at gmail.com  Sat Aug 28 16:27:34 2010
From: jeff.w.bulk at gmail.com (J W)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:27:34 -0700
Subject: [kwlug-disc] RSS Usage
In-Reply-To: <-2175883422803984040@unknownmsgid>
References: <27260305.3235.1283025255171.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
	<-2175883422803984040@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <7952742484510469721@unknownmsgid>

I just use Thunderbird.
Every time I check my email on my desktop it loads up the feeds and
checks for updates.  Works for me.


On 2010-08-28, at 1:17 PM, Brad Bierman <bbierman42 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been using Google reader for my feeds. I switched from
> applications about three years ago.
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> On 2010-08-28, at 15:54, John Van Ostrand <john at netdirect.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> With the interest in RSS feeds lately I began wondering if I'm underutilizing RSS. I have some set up as live bookmarks in Firefox, but that requires me to remember to check them. There isn't any indication of new content.
>>
>> What tools are people using to push RSS feed updates to them?
>>
>> --
>> John Van Ostrand
>> CTO, co-CEO
>> Net Direct Inc.
>> 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6
>> Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102
>> Fx: 519-883-8533
>>
>> Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org



From john at netdirect.ca  Sat Aug 28 16:33:11 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 16:33:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] RSS Usage
Message-ID: <2443d01cb46f0$3d5cac10$b8160430$@ca>

So it sounds like I have to get rss working with my corporate email client, 
change or use a separate app.


----- Original Message -----
From: kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org <kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org>
To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
Sent: Sat Aug 28 16:27:34 2010
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] RSS Usage

I just use Thunderbird.
Every time I check my email on my desktop it loads up the feeds and
checks for updates.  Works for me.


On 2010-08-28, at 1:17 PM, Brad Bierman <bbierman42 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been using Google reader for my feeds. I switched from
> applications about three years ago.
>
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> On 2010-08-28, at 15:54, John Van Ostrand <john at netdirect.ca> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> With the interest in RSS feeds lately I began wondering if I'm 
>> underutilizing RSS. I have some set up as live bookmarks in Firefox, but 
>> that requires me to remember to check them. There isn't any indication of 
>> new content.
>>
>> What tools are people using to push RSS feed updates to them?
>>
>> --
>> John Van Ostrand
>> CTO, co-CEO
>> Net Direct Inc.
>> 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6
>> Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102
>> Fx: 519-883-8533
>>
>> Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org

_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org



From kb at 2bits.com  Sat Aug 28 18:27:22 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 18:27:22 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] RSS Usage
In-Reply-To: <27260305.3235.1283025255171.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
References: <27260305.3235.1283025255171.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinrbgYo5-mPomXemOWtTiiW-d099oDJRp_WdtpX@mail.gmail.com>

Google Reader is quite good.

http://google.com/reader

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 3:54 PM, John Van Ostrand <john at netdirect.ca> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> With the interest in RSS feeds lately I began wondering if I'm
> underutilizing RSS. I have some set up as live bookmarks in Firefox, but
> that requires me to remember to check them. There isn't any indication of
> new content.
>
> What tools are people using to push RSS feed updates to them?
>
> --
> John Van Ostrand
> CTO, co-CEO
> Net Direct Inc.
> 564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6
> Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102
> Fx: 519-883-8533
>
> Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>



-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Sat Aug 28 19:02:07 2010
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 19:02:07 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] RSS Usage
In-Reply-To: <2443d01cb46f0$3d5cac10$b8160430$@ca>
References: <2443d01cb46f0$3d5cac10$b8160430$@ca>
Message-ID: <20100828230207.GC12889@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 04:33:11PM -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote:

> So it sounds like I have to get rss working with my corporate email
> client, change or use a separate app.

I am using a separate app: Newsbeuter, which is console-based. Some
RSS feeds work terribly (especially ones with lots of pictures) but
for mostly-text feeds it is okay. 

- Paul

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From webhost at kwlug.org  Sun Aug 29 00:04:55 2010
From: webhost at kwlug.org (webhost at kwlug.org)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 00:04:55 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux User Group new
	content notification: 2010-08-29 00:04
Message-ID: <E1OpZ8Z-0008H2-7z@astoria.ccjclearline.com>

Greetings mail-forum-merge,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recent content - 1 new post
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Bash Command Line Editting and History
Published Book page by john
[ http://kwlug.org/node/766 ]

In Bash the text on the command line can be edited in place using cursor
keys, backspace and delete. Bash also retains a history of entered
commands so you can easily reuse or edit previous commands and use all
or part of previous command lines in new commands. The simplest way of
accessing history is using the up and down arrow key, then using left,
right, backspace and delete to edit the line.
This normally works quite well if you are using a decent terminal
emulation. This is true for the Linux console and an X-Windows terminal
emulator, but you may have problems if you are trying to use a Windows
terminal emulation program or a clunky old serial terminal. I'm not
going to to into these at this time because not may clunky old terminals
were spared from landfill and if you're using Windows you can just
download Putty and get a decent emulator.
Editing Keys
The keys for editing are simple. If all is set correctly you can use
your cursor keys. Up goes to the previous issued command, down to the
next command. Left and Right move between characters in the displayed
command so that you can selectively edit characters. Delete and
Backspace should work as expected as should Home and End. 
In fact it's so simple that mentioning this could be insulting, so I'm
sorry.
But if in fact you don't have cursor keys working you can use the Ctrl-P
for previous issued command and Ctrl-N for the next command. Ctrl-F and
Ctrl-B stand in for cursor right and left. Ctrl-H should work for
backspace and delete.
If you don't like these you can map your own keys using the bind
built-in command.
Displaying History
You can display the entire history of lines you've issued using the
history built-in command:

history

This will show a enumerated list of all the previous commands.
You can also selectively list history using the fc command:

fc -l -20

The above shows the last 20 commands.
Searching history
There are several ways to search through history to find certain
commands. The easiest way to search history is using the
reverse-search-history function. To access it press Ctrl-R, you will be
prompted for a search string, enter a search string, either part of a
command or an argument. The most recent matching entry will
automatically appear as you type. If the most recent isn't what you want
you can press Ctrl-R again to select the next most recent matching
entry. When you see the command you want use cursor keys to edit the
entry if you like or press Enter to execute the command. So what if you
go too far and want to forward through matching entries. Well that's
complicated. There is a simple keystroke that does this, Ctrl-S, but if
you try it won't work. So we can find out why it doesn't work or we can
change it to another keystroke. That's right, it's all configurable.
Ctrl-S Problem
Ctrl-S happens to be a hold-over from the days of low-speed serial
communications. It was a special code that would tell the remote end of
the serial line to stop sending characters. It was a way to prevent lost
characters. It was implemented in the tty serial driver so it's
essentially the kernel that "eats" the code. Today, we have hardware
consoles and network connections so we can do away with this character.
Now if you ever access your system from an old serial cable or telephone
modem (and I don't mean a DSL or cable modem) you might want to
reconsider this change.
To prevent Ctrl-S from being eaten by the tty driver run this command:

stty stop ''

If you want this to be a permanent change you will have to add this to
your .bashrc file.
After that change the tty driver will pass the Ctrl-S to the process and
your forward-history-search function will work.
Another way to deal with this is to bind a new key to the function. We
use the bind command along with the official name of the function
forward-history-search. In this example we'll bind Ctrl-B (cursor left)
to the function since we can use cursor keys to move the cursor.

bind '\C-b':forward-search-history

If we want to make this permanent we would need to add it to your
.bashrc file.
Now you can use Ctrl-B to search forwards through history.
History Expansion
This next section is pretty intense so if you think you have all you
need to use Bash history ignore this section. If you want to become a
command line king you'll need to keep reading there are some real time
savers here if you're willing to commit some of these keystrokes to
memory.
Another way to use history is through expansion. This means use special
codes to insert previous commands, or parts of them, into the current
line and optionally to change them during substitution.
The simplest form of history expansion is an Event Designator. It starts
with an exclamation mark (!) and has many forms:


Event Designator
Example
Description


!!
!!
Substitute the last command line in full


!n
!123
Substitute command line 123 from history. The number comes from the
listing from either the histOry or fc command.


!-n
!-3
Substitute the third last command line from history.


!string
!vi
Substitute the last command that begins with vi.


!?string?
!?recipe?
Substitute the last command line which contains the word .


!#
!#
Substitute the current command line so far.


^string1^string2^
^needle^haystack^
Substitute the previous command but replace needle with haystack


We can use one of the substitutions anywhere in a command line.
Typically it's used to re-issue commands and often they are used on a
blank line:

!!

This would simply re-run the previous command. This doesn't sound as
easy as simply pressing Up cursor and Enter. But consider that you want
to re-issue a line from a long time ago, but you know it was the last
time that command was used. It could be really handy to re-issue the
last of a specific command:

!man

That would run the last man command. Be careful though it will also
match a command called "mangle" it matches beginning of line. It's
usually pretty safe though since you would have had to issue a "mangle"
command after the last man command.
If we want to echo the previous line it would be simple:

echo !!

The result of the above would be that the previous command would be
displayed on the screen. 
This also shows one way to test history expansion, by echoing the
history you are trying to substitute. Another way is to press Esc ^.
This key sequence will expand the history on the command line without
executing it.
A more useful example of expansion is:

logger "Finished: !!"
sudo tail /var/log/messages

The above would log the previous line to the system logs. The sudo tail
command runs tail as root and lists the last few lines of the
/var/log/messages file. You should see your last command listed in the
log file.
Advanced Substitition
We can also grab just a portion of a previous command line, this syntax
is called Word Designators and allows one to extract words from a
previous command you and substituting them into the current command.
This is really useful if you are working on large arguments, whether
that is a command name or file name, or a list of complex arguments.
Word designators always follow an Event Designator (see above) but are
separated from them with a colon (:). They apply to the command line
selected by the Event Designator. So if we wanted to pull words from the
last line we would start with !!: and add one of the following word
designators:


Word Designator
Example
Description


0
!!:0
Substitute word 0 from the last command line (i.e. the command from the
previous line)


n
!!:2
Subtitute word 2 from the last command line


$
!!:$
Substitute the last argument from the last command line


%
!?hel?:%
Substitute the most recent word found in history that contains the text
hel.This really works by substituting the last word searched for with
!?string?. The search doesn't need to be on the same line. In other
words once you've searched once with !?string? you can use !% over and
over and it will give the same result.


n-m
!!:2-4
Sustitute words n through m. You can abbreviate 0-n to -n.


*
!!:*
Substitute arguments 1 and on.


n*
Substitute arguments n and on.


n-
Substitute arguments n to the second last


There are some interesting uses of this. Let's say you used a very long
file name that has a unique name, recipe. To verify you could search for
this name without executing the command by putting the substitution
after an echo command:

# Sometime before you ran
#     vi /home/john/documents/recipes/southwest/quacamole_dip.txt
#
echo !?recipe?

Once found the !% will now work until the next search. That means you
can use the argument easily in another command:

lp !%

That command would result in this string lp
/home/john/documents/recipies/southwest/quacamole_dip.txt and would
print the file only you typed a lot less.
You can also re-issue the same command arguments over and over. Lets say
you just looked into a file and decide it's in the wrong directory:

vi /home/john/documents/recipes/southwest/poutine.txt
mv !$ /home/john/documents/recipes/canadian

As you can see !$ and !% are shortforms for !!:$ and !!:%.
Modifiers
We can also apply a modifier to the selected history. This is handy for
doing slight alterations to substitute text.


Modifier
Example
Description


h
!:1:h
Substitute only the head of the file path. i.e. remove the trailing
element of the path. E.g. /home/john/.bashrc becomes /home/john


t
!:1:t
Substitute only the tail of the file path. i.e. remove all but the last
element of the path. E.g. /home/john/.bashrc becomes .bashrc


r
!:1:r
Remove the trailling file suffix. i.e. remove everthing after the last
dot in the file name. e.g. /home/john/resume.txt becomes
/home/john/resume


e
!:1:e
Leave only the trailing file suffix. e.g. /home/john/resume.txt becomes
.txt


p
!:p
Substitute but don't execute, only print.


q
!*:q
Quote the substituted words with single quotes to avoid expansion. To
see this in effect try: 
echo $PATH $PATH
echo !*:q


x
!*:x
Quote the substituted words at word breaks (spaces, newlines). To see
this in effect try: 
echo $PATH $PATH
echo !*:x


s/old/new/
!?poutine?:s/southwest/canadian/
Substitute  new  for  the  first  occurrence of old in the event
              line.  Any delimiter can be used  in  place  of  /.   The 
final
              delimiter  is  optional if it is the last character of the
event
              line.  The delimiter may be quoted in old and new with a 
single
              backslash.   If & appears in new, it is replaced by old. 
A single backslash will quote the &.  If old is null, it  is  set  to
              the  last  old substituted, or, if no previous history
substitutions took place, the last string in a !?string[?]  search.


&
!-5:&
Repeat the last substitution. (presumably on another line)


g
!?images?:gs/.jpeg/.jpg/
Cause changes to be applied over the entire event line.  This is
              used  in  conjunction  with ?:s? (e.g.,
?:gs/old/new/?) or ?:&?.
              If used with ?:s?, any delimiter can be used in place
of /,  and
              the  final  delimiter is optional if it is the last
character of
              the event line.  An a may be used as a synonym for g.


G
!?images?:Gs/mexico/Mexico/
Apply the following ?s? modifier once to each word in the  event
              line.




-- 
This is an automatic e-mail from KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux
User Group.
To stop receiving these e-mails, change your notification preferences at
http://kwlug.org/user/28/notify




From bjonkman at sobac.com  Sun Aug 29 00:26:47 2010
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 00:26:47 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] RSS Usage
In-Reply-To: <27260305.3235.1283025255171.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
References: <27260305.3235.1283025255171.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
Message-ID: <1283056007.1832.4.camel@niven-meerkat>

On Sat, 2010-08-28 at 15:54 -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> With the interest in RSS feeds lately I began wondering if I'm underutilizing RSS. I have some set up as live bookmarks in Firefox, but that requires me to remember to check them. There isn't any indication of new content.
> 
> What tools are people using to push RSS feed updates to them?

I use the Firefox add-on 'Brief'
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4578/

It works with the existing Firefox bookmark structure that Live
Bookmarks uses, so I usually add new feeds using Live Bookmarks but then
read them with Brief.

Brief can be a bit slow to load, but that may be because I have over 200
feeds, and receive some 10 items per feed...

There may also be a problem when running the 'HTTPS everywhere' add-on,
but I haven't fully diagnosed that yet.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere

--Bob.




From gcooke at insurancesquared.com  Mon Aug 30 10:43:14 2010
From: gcooke at insurancesquared.com (Insurance Squared Inc.)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:43:14 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] upgrading hardware/64bit OS
Message-ID: <4C7BC382.7050308@insurancesquared.com>

My wife is running Mandriva(32bit) on her business computer with a 
couple of gigs of ram.  Everything runs fine except her windows 
bookkeeping app.  I've got virtualbox installed to run windows and it's 
just slow -  slow enough that she mentions it.

My thinking is that she needs more RAM.  To get more RAM, she really 
needs a 64 bit OS.  For a 64 bit OS, I need a machine that has a 
processor that will work with that (is that correct?  I've tried to 
install mandriva 64bit before on other machines and it objected because 
the hardware wasn't 64 bit).

Am I on the right track here?  Upgrade her hardware to a new processor 
with lots of RAM, then upgrade the OS to take advantage of the RAM, then 
virtualbox will run faster?  If so, what kind of hardware should I be 
looking at, processor-wise and how much ram would you get?

g.




From zixiekat at gmail.com  Mon Aug 30 10:52:54 2010
From: zixiekat at gmail.com (Colin Mackay)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:52:54 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] upgrading hardware/64bit OS
In-Reply-To: <4C7BC382.7050308@insurancesquared.com>
References: <4C7BC382.7050308@insurancesquared.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin8J24-aPEH9e3-G5R1j4tJ3cVDtycg=Jr16J3b@mail.gmail.com>

You don't need to move to 64-bit to see more than 4gigs of RAM.  You
can use the PAE Kernel (Physical Address Extension).  I use it on my
server with 6 gigs of RAM, running Fedora 10 32-bit, runs just fine.

I am not sure if there is a Mandriva PAE kernel, you'd have to go looking.

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Insurance Squared Inc.
<gcooke at insurancesquared.com> wrote:
> My wife is running Mandriva(32bit) on her business computer with a couple of
> gigs of ram. ?Everything runs fine except her windows bookkeeping app. ?I've
> got virtualbox installed to run windows and it's just slow - ?slow enough
> that she mentions it.
>
> My thinking is that she needs more RAM. ?To get more RAM, she really needs a
> 64 bit OS. ?For a 64 bit OS, I need a machine that has a processor that will
> work with that (is that correct? ?I've tried to install mandriva 64bit
> before on other machines and it objected because the hardware wasn't 64
> bit).
>
> Am I on the right track here? ?Upgrade her hardware to a new processor with
> lots of RAM, then upgrade the OS to take advantage of the RAM, then
> virtualbox will run faster? ?If so, what kind of hardware should I be
> looking at, processor-wise and how much ram would you get?
>
> g.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>



From kb at 2bits.com  Mon Aug 30 11:09:51 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:09:51 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] upgrading hardware/64bit OS
In-Reply-To: <4C7BC382.7050308@insurancesquared.com>
References: <4C7BC382.7050308@insurancesquared.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikwo2ifLSp+3-YcCD6B9jyJg1ktzn06v7Y33CFB@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Insurance Squared Inc. <
gcooke at insurancesquared.com> wrote:

> My wife is running Mandriva(32bit) on her business computer with a couple
> of gigs of ram.  Everything runs fine except her windows bookkeeping app.
>  I've got virtualbox installed to run windows and it's just slow -  slow
> enough that she mentions it.
>
> My thinking is that she needs more RAM.  To get more RAM, she really needs
> a 64 bit OS.  For a 64 bit OS, I need a machine that has a processor that
> will work with that (is that correct?  I've tried to install mandriva 64bit
> before on other machines and it objected because the hardware wasn't 64
> bit).
>
> Am I on the right track here?


Certain things will be faster on 64-bit. I saw benchmarks for web
applications using Apache that were noticeably faster on 64-bit than on
32-bit on the same hardware.


> Upgrade her hardware to a new processor with lots of RAM, then upgrade the
> OS to take advantage of the RAM, then virtualbox will run faster?


I can't say for sure. Perhaps.

The part that concerns me is how you can upgrade from 32 to 64 without a
reinstall.

If so, what kind of hardware should I be looking at, processor-wise and how
> much ram would you get?
>

Use a bootable CD distro (any distro will do). Drop to a shell, then run:

cat /proc/cpuinfo

Look at the "flags" line. If you have "lm", then it is Long Mode, meaning it
is 64 bits.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From dscassel at gmail.com  Mon Aug 30 11:18:02 2010
From: dscassel at gmail.com (Darcy Casselman)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:18:02 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Ubuntu Hour & SFD planning, Wednesday!
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=NELVJQ2tMO58XBhJbZ0h2D2y6srBR_4oDaSCK@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

If you're interested in helping out with Software Freedom Day, please
come out to the Waterloo Ubuntu Hour, Wednesday, September 1, 8pm at
Whole Lotta Gelata.  That's this Wednesday!

http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/286/detail/

Also, if you want to hang out and chat about Ubuntu, get ideas on how
to fix problems or whatever, feel free to join us.

Sorry if I'm a bit unresponsive.  I'm on vacation!  I'll be on the
road again in a few hours.  I'll check email again tonight.

Darcy.



From chris at chrisirwin.ca  Mon Aug 30 11:27:49 2010
From: chris at chrisirwin.ca (Chris Irwin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:27:49 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Debugging for memory use
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=rs=Qu7UdAO0LoL44p2kY12HS=JAUvME3f=zie@mail.gmail.com>

Short question: How do I find out why nautilus is using so much
memory, and maybe fix it. I'm somewhat of a rookie when it comes to
debugging applications, but I have some C ability, and wouldn't mind
investing the time to fix my issue.

Long explanation: I've been having a problem where over time my
machine has less and less free memory. After some playing around, it
turns out that about 500MB of 'stuff' had been swapped out. I have 4GB
of ram, and `free -m` showed very little as 'cached' (maybe 100MB), so
I'm looking at 'actual' memory usage.

First thing I did was kill chromium. For a browser, it tends to be
rather memory intensive. That only freed up a few hundred MB of
memory. My machine, sitting at an empty Gnome desktop was using ~3.2
GB doing nothing. After some detective work I killed nautilus and
suddenly had an extra 1 GB of memory available. This has happened
twice so far, but the effects are far enough removed from any actual
nautilus use that I don't know what caused it.

So, how can I investigate this? Can I install symbols and connect to a
running nautilus process with gdb? Also, how do I use gdb? Is there
something else that is better suited for debugging memory issues?

-- 
Chris Irwin
<chris at chrisirwin.ca>



From chris at chrisirwin.ca  Mon Aug 30 11:32:52 2010
From: chris at chrisirwin.ca (Chris Irwin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:32:52 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] upgrading hardware/64bit OS
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikwo2ifLSp+3-YcCD6B9jyJg1ktzn06v7Y33CFB@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C7BC382.7050308@insurancesquared.com>
	<AANLkTikwo2ifLSp+3-YcCD6B9jyJg1ktzn06v7Y33CFB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin4Qv7eP3B-w9cWj29SrL8CPs3TE4oOd_b-5+_U@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:09, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:
>> Upgrade her hardware to a new processor with lots of RAM, then upgrade the
>> OS to take advantage of the RAM, then virtualbox will run faster?

Virtualbox may run faster if your CPU supports (and virtualbox is
using) virtualization extensions (vt-x on intel, amd-v on AMD).

> I can't say for sure. Perhaps.
>
> The part that concerns me is how you can upgrade from 32 to 64 without a
> reinstall.

I remember reading about some folks running a 64-bit kernel with a
32-bit userspace. This gave them the memory (etc) benefits, but
regular 32-bit compatibility (and limitations on the application
side).

I doubt any distros provide a 64-bit kernel for their 32-bit releases, though.

-- 
Chris Irwin
<chris at chrisirwin.ca>



From gwalsh at notw.ca  Mon Aug 30 11:52:22 2010
From: gwalsh at notw.ca (Gary Walsh)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:52:22 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] upgrading hardware/64bit OS
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin4Qv7eP3B-w9cWj29SrL8CPs3TE4oOd_b-5+_U@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C7BC382.7050308@insurancesquared.com>
	<AANLkTikwo2ifLSp+3-YcCD6B9jyJg1ktzn06v7Y33CFB@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTin4Qv7eP3B-w9cWj29SrL8CPs3TE4oOd_b-5+_U@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1283183542.12423.17.camel@blackie>

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 11:32 -0400, Chris Irwin wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:09, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:
> >> Upgrade her hardware to a new processor with lots of RAM, then upgrade the
> >> OS to take advantage of the RAM, then virtualbox will run faster?
> 
> Virtualbox may run faster if your CPU supports (and virtualbox is
> using) virtualization extensions (vt-x on intel, amd-v on AMD).
> 
> > I can't say for sure. Perhaps.
> >
> > The part that concerns me is how you can upgrade from 32 to 64 without a
> > reinstall.
> 
> I remember reading about some folks running a 64-bit kernel with a
> 32-bit userspace. This gave them the memory (etc) benefits, but
> regular 32-bit compatibility (and limitations on the application
> side).
> 
> I doubt any distros provide a 64-bit kernel for their 32-bit releases, though.

Mandriva 64-bit is a hybrid system that allows you to run 32-bit
binaries on the 64-bit system.  For instance, you can install the 32-bit
version of Firefox for flash plugin compatibility.


-- 
Gary Walsh <gwalsh at notw.ca>




From kb at 2bits.com  Mon Aug 30 11:53:37 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:53:37 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Debugging for memory use
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=rs=Qu7UdAO0LoL44p2kY12HS=JAUvME3f=zie@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=rs=Qu7UdAO0LoL44p2kY12HS=JAUvME3f=zie@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=xp0aHfPExHFnuDzgu14kpT=jf23yXYsdi54is@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca> wrote:

> Short question: How do I find out why nautilus is using so much
> memory, and maybe fix it. I'm somewhat of a rookie when it comes to
> debugging applications, but I have some C ability, and wouldn't mind
> investing the time to fix my issue.
>
> Long explanation: I've been having a problem where over time my
> machine has less and less free memory. After some playing around, it
> turns out that about 500MB of 'stuff' had been swapped out.


Check if a lower vm.swappiness helps?

http://www.linuxvox.com/2009/10/what-is-the-linux-kernel-parameter-vm-swappiness/


> I have 4GB of ram, and `free -m` showed very little as 'cached' (maybe
> 100MB), so I'm looking at 'actual' memory usage.
>
> First thing I did was kill chromium. For a browser, it tends to be
> rather memory intensive.


Because each window (rather each tab) in the browser is a separate process.
That is one of the design goals for Chromium, to isolate a bad plugin
(Flash) taking down the entire browser and all its windows/tabs.

So, if you open a lot of tabs, that means lots of processes.


> That only freed up a few hundred MB of
> memory. My machine, sitting at an empty Gnome desktop was using ~3.2
> GB doing nothing.


This is insane.


> After some detective work I killed nautilus and
> suddenly had an extra 1 GB of memory available. This has happened
> twice so far, but the effects are far enough removed from any actual
> nautilus use that I don't know what caused it.
>

Even 2.2 GB with nothing but Gnome is still too high.

I am using KDE, so can't tell what is normal for Gnome, but looking at my
laptop now, using the RES field in top: Firefox is the one that uses most
memory (1.1G, yes many tabs open), then Xorg is 188MB, then Amarok is 145MB,
and Open Office with one document being edited is 104MB. Everything after
that is less than 100MB.

So, how can I investigate this? Can I install symbols and connect to a
> running nautilus process with gdb? Also, how do I use gdb? Is there
> something else that is better suited for debugging memory issues?
>

Does Nautilus do something like automatic desktop indexing, or something
like that? That would consume a lot of memory and if there is a bug, it can
be leaking memory too.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From cdfrey at foursquare.net  Mon Aug 30 11:55:35 2010
From: cdfrey at foursquare.net (Chris Frey)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 11:55:35 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Debugging for memory use
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=rs=Qu7UdAO0LoL44p2kY12HS=JAUvME3f=zie@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=rs=Qu7UdAO0LoL44p2kY12HS=JAUvME3f=zie@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100830155535.GA4193@foursquare.net>

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:27:49AM -0400, Chris Irwin wrote:
> Short question: How do I find out why nautilus is using so much
> memory, and maybe fix it. I'm somewhat of a rookie when it comes to
> debugging applications, but I have some C ability, and wouldn't mind
> investing the time to fix my issue.
> 
> Long explanation: I've been having a problem where over time my
> machine has less and less free memory. After some playing around, it
> turns out that about 500MB of 'stuff' had been swapped out. I have 4GB
> of ram, and `free -m` showed very little as 'cached' (maybe 100MB), so
> I'm looking at 'actual' memory usage.
> 
> First thing I did was kill chromium. For a browser, it tends to be
> rather memory intensive. That only freed up a few hundred MB of
> memory. My machine, sitting at an empty Gnome desktop was using ~3.2
> GB doing nothing. After some detective work I killed nautilus and
> suddenly had an extra 1 GB of memory available. This has happened
> twice so far, but the effects are far enough removed from any actual
> nautilus use that I don't know what caused it.
> 
> So, how can I investigate this? Can I install symbols and connect to a
> running nautilus process with gdb? Also, how do I use gdb? Is there
> something else that is better suited for debugging memory issues?

Hi Chris,

First thing to use is 'ps' or 'top' when this happens again, and
sort by memory usage in top to see what is really eating up all that
space.

Next, you probably want to google around for bug reports of the same
issue.  If you are seeing this, then others probably are too, and it might
have been fixed already.  Especially with a 1 GB appetite.

It may be that Nautilus is supposed to consume that much memory, and
perhaps there is a setting, or a memory cache limit somewhere, that you
can tweak, before diving into the code.

Before diving into the code, you should subscribe to the Nautilus development
mailing list and describe this problem.  They may be able to help you
debug this, and will know the code much better than anyone else, so
they can point you in the right direction faster.

After all this, it might just be a memory leak in the code, and one
of the best tools to find memory leaks is called valgrind.  Try to
use the latest valgrind you can get on your system, since you'll want
all the features to help find leaks.

Recompile Nautilus from source and make sure you have debug symbols
turned on (gcc option '-g').  You can test this by running it inside gdb,
breaking on main, and checking for source code.  Assuming Nautilus runs
as a usual binary program:

	$ gdb /path/to/compiled/nautilus
	> break main
	> run
	> list

If you see source code after 'list', you're good.

Then run Nautilus under valgrind, which might be tricky.... this page
has some instructions on how to do it:

	http://live.gnome.org/Valgrind

I would also consider adding the --track-origins=yes option when running
valgrind, if your version is new enough.

This is the forest-level view of debugging memory leaks.  There's a
whole lot of tree-level details that you'll encounter as you dig into it.

Good luck,
- Chris




From chris at chrisirwin.ca  Mon Aug 30 12:13:32 2010
From: chris at chrisirwin.ca (Chris Irwin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:13:32 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Debugging for memory use
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=xp0aHfPExHFnuDzgu14kpT=jf23yXYsdi54is@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTi=rs=Qu7UdAO0LoL44p2kY12HS=JAUvME3f=zie@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=xp0aHfPExHFnuDzgu14kpT=jf23yXYsdi54is@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1283184812.28691.15.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 11:53 -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
> wrote:

>         Long explanation: I've been having a problem where over time
>         my
>         machine has less and less free memory. After some playing
>         around, it
>         turns out that about 500MB of 'stuff' had been swapped out. 
> 
> Check if a lower vm.swappiness helps?
> 
> http://www.linuxvox.com/2009/10/what-is-the-linux-kernel-parameter-vm-swappiness/

I don't think that would make much of a difference in this case. I was
"using" more memory than I have. Even a low swappiness would have
swapped, just maybe slightly less (I still had ~100MB cache)

>         I have 4GB of ram, and `free -m` showed very little as
>         'cached' (maybe 100MB), so I'm looking at 'actual' memory
>         usage.
>         
>         First thing I did was kill chromium. For a browser, it tends
>         to be
>         rather memory intensive. 
> 
> Because each window (rather each tab) in the browser is a separate
> process. That is one of the design goals for Chromium, to isolate a
> bad plugin (Flash) taking down the entire browser and all its
> windows/tabs.
> 
> So, if you open a lot of tabs, that means lots of processes.

Right, which is why it is the first thing I killed. Turns out that while
it uses more memory than Firefox, it wasn't the cause of my problem. I
really shouldn't have mentioned it :)

>         That only freed up a few hundred MB of
>         memory. My machine, sitting at an empty Gnome desktop was
>         using ~3.2
>         GB doing nothing. 
> 
> This is insane.

I agree.

>         After some detective work I killed nautilus and
>         suddenly had an extra 1 GB of memory available. This has
>         happened
>         twice so far, but the effects are far enough removed from any
>         actual
>         nautilus use that I don't know what caused it.
> 
> Even 2.2 GB with nothing but Gnome is still too high.
> 
> I am using KDE, so can't tell what is normal for Gnome, but looking at
> my laptop now, using the RES field in top: Firefox is the one that
> uses most memory (1.1G, yes many tabs open), then Xorg is 188MB, then
> Amarok is 145MB, and Open Office with one document being edited is
> 104MB. Everything after that is less than 100MB.

I rebooting yesterday. I used the system for a bit, suspended for the
night, resumed here at work, and have this (sorry if it wraps):

$ uptime
 12:03:12 up 12:12,  3 users,  load average: 0.15, 0.43, 0.76

$ free -m
            total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:         3825       3331        493          0         81       1480
-/+ buffers/cache:      1770       2054
Swap:        3811          9       3802

This shows that I'm using ~1.7GB with just evolution and a
gnome-terminal open, the rest is disk cache.

According to top, the RES for nautilus is 691MB. Evolution is 260,
everything else is < 100. If I kill nautilus, it auto respawns (it
paints my desktop), but RES is a reasonable 56MB. I'm also down to just
under 1.2GB used, which is reasonable.

$ free -m
            total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:         3825       2772       1052          0         83       1512
-/+ buffers/cache:      1175       2649
Swap:        3811          6       3805

>         So, how can I investigate this? Can I install symbols and
>         connect to a
>         running nautilus process with gdb? Also, how do I use gdb? Is
>         there
>         something else that is better suited for debugging memory
>         issues?
> 
> Does Nautilus do something like automatic desktop indexing, or
> something
> like that? That would consume a lot of memory and if there is a bug,
> it can
> be leaking memory too.

No, indexing is not handled by the file manager, but by other solutions
such as tracker/etc. I don't have an indexer enabled anyway.

Maybe it could be thumbnails. If I start browsing around, could nautilus
be hanging on to thumbnails in memory? I suppose I'll have to do a basic
comparison of memory usage.

-- 
Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
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From kb at 2bits.com  Mon Aug 30 12:28:51 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:28:51 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Debugging for memory use
In-Reply-To: <1283184812.28691.15.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>
References: <AANLkTi=rs=Qu7UdAO0LoL44p2kY12HS=JAUvME3f=zie@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=xp0aHfPExHFnuDzgu14kpT=jf23yXYsdi54is@mail.gmail.com>
	<1283184812.28691.15.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinZS-ztEkaz+qCuag_APsPOT_9Dya=RQNBmWw45@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca> wrote:

> Maybe it could be thumbnails. If I start browsing around, could nautilus
> be hanging on to thumbnails in memory? I suppose I'll have to do a basic
> comparison of memory usage.
>

I have seen something similar. Has not happened for a while, but basically
it was when I open Dolphin (the KDE 4 file manager) and browse a lot of
local directories that have pictures in them, open some of them in Gwenview
(KDE 4's generic viewer), and page from to the next.

After that, I feel that the laptop becomes sluggish, and memory usage soars.

The difference is that /usr/bin/X was the one that I see grew larger in this
case,
theorizing that it is a memory leak in X.

As I said it has not happened in a while, so either the leak was fixed, or I
have
not been browsing the albums that much lately.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From chris at chrisirwin.ca  Mon Aug 30 12:35:09 2010
From: chris at chrisirwin.ca (Chris Irwin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 12:35:09 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Debugging for memory use
In-Reply-To: <1283184812.28691.15.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>
References: <AANLkTi=rs=Qu7UdAO0LoL44p2kY12HS=JAUvME3f=zie@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=xp0aHfPExHFnuDzgu14kpT=jf23yXYsdi54is@mail.gmail.com>
	<1283184812.28691.15.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>
Message-ID: <1283186109.12291.0.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 12:13 -0400, Chris Irwin wrote:
> Maybe it could be thumbnails. If I start browsing around, could nautilus
> be hanging on to thumbnails in memory? I suppose I'll have to do a basic
> comparison of memory usage.

Every time I open a nautilus window, usage jumps by about 40MB. It does
not go away when I close it. It's a ticking time bomb!

I decided to disable the desktop icons, but it seems that nautilus is
still running, but with no window showing. I killed it, and it just
respawned in it's windowless state, ready to steal memory at it's
earliest convenience. iirc, nautilus handles auto-mounting removable
media for Gnome, so it makes sense that it has a process lurking in the
background.

I'll have to follow Chris' advice and check for known bugs. He's right
in that I'm probably not the first user to have this problem.

-- 
Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
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From unsolicited at swiz.ca  Mon Aug 30 13:04:57 2010
From: unsolicited at swiz.ca (unsolicited)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:04:57 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] upgrading hardware/64bit OS
In-Reply-To: <4C7BC382.7050308@insurancesquared.com>
References: <4C7BC382.7050308@insurancesquared.com>
Message-ID: <4C7BE4B9.30906@swiz.ca>

You should be able to upgrade to 4GB RAM without any software changes, 
and see a difference, if there is a difference to be seen. i.e. If 
it's, or the machine, is memory starved, this should get you over a 
hump. One vm with 4GB RAM hard, 2GB for VM, should be more than 
sufficient no matter how much memory you have. i.e. If not running 
multiple more vm's, 4GB would be sufficient - 32/64 bit won't be an 
issue, and more RAM isn't going to help.

Since it's a vm, you could try it on different machines you have, and 
see to what extent you see a performance gain. e.g. More RAM on one 
machine vs. a faster CPU on another.

FWIW, on a Windows machine, virtualbox was so slow I went back to 
vmware player. YMMV. You could try this vm under windows and just peek 
if there are any noticeable performance changes.

Any 64 bit OS can vm a 32 bit OS, but the reverse is not true. You 
could also run the vm against physical disk partitions. (Not 
recommended for Windows - it gets very unhappy at the hardware 
changes. But if you only ever boot it that way / the vm hardware 
doesn't change, you'd be OK.) [hw change as in dual boot AND vm boot.]

So, you could copy the vm to a usb key, go to different machines, and 
see if you can spot a difference. For that matter, I suspect with a 
live cd and this vm on a usb key, you could walk around trying 
hardware / speed.

Do you have any sense as to the cause of the slowness? Is it lack of 
memory, are you CPU bound, is the video slow?

Insurance Squared Inc. wrote, On 08/30/2010 10:43 AM:
> My wife is running Mandriva(32bit) on her business computer with a 
> couple of gigs of ram.  Everything runs fine except her windows 
> bookkeeping app.  I've got virtualbox installed to run windows and it's 
> just slow -  slow enough that she mentions it.
> 
> My thinking is that she needs more RAM.  To get more RAM, she really 
> needs a 64 bit OS.  For a 64 bit OS, I need a machine that has a 
> processor that will work with that (is that correct?  I've tried to 
> install mandriva 64bit before on other machines and it objected because 
> the hardware wasn't 64 bit).
> 
> Am I on the right track here?  Upgrade her hardware to a new processor 
> with lots of RAM, then upgrade the OS to take advantage of the RAM, then 
> virtualbox will run faster?  If so, what kind of hardware should I be 
> looking at, processor-wise and how much ram would you get?



From gcooke at insurancesquared.com  Mon Aug 30 13:23:23 2010
From: gcooke at insurancesquared.com (Insurance Squared Inc.)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:23:23 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] upgrading hardware/64bit OS
In-Reply-To: <4C7BE4B9.30906@swiz.ca>
References: <4C7BC382.7050308@insurancesquared.com> <4C7BE4B9.30906@swiz.ca>
Message-ID: <4C7BE90B.6070706@insurancesquared.com>

Good point, maybe it is the processor.  The processor fan on the machine 
spins way loud when we open up windows, it's working the CPU like a dog 
:).  I know that can get complicated though, not enough mem can make the 
processor work harder.  I normally just assume though that more ram 
makes my worries go away.  Perhaps just a cpu upgrade (or more 
specifically an upgrade to a machine with a better CPU) is the way to go.

What's out there these days for good cpu's?  I don't know even the lingo 
anymore, buying old XP boxes off kijiji and ebay have worked so well for 
me over the last 3-5 years.



On 30/08/10 01:04 PM, unsolicited wrote:
> You should be able to upgrade to 4GB RAM without any software changes, 
> and see a difference, if there is a difference to be seen. i.e. If 
> it's, or the machine, is memory starved, this should get you over a 
> hump. One vm with 4GB RAM hard, 2GB for VM, should be more than 
> sufficient no matter how much memory you have. i.e. If not running 
> multiple more vm's, 4GB would be sufficient - 32/64 bit won't be an 
> issue, and more RAM isn't going to help.
>
> Since it's a vm, you could try it on different machines you have, and 
> see to what extent you see a performance gain. e.g. More RAM on one 
> machine vs. a faster CPU on another.
>
> FWIW, on a Windows machine, virtualbox was so slow I went back to 
> vmware player. YMMV. You could try this vm under windows and just peek 
> if there are any noticeable performance changes.
>
> Any 64 bit OS can vm a 32 bit OS, but the reverse is not true. You 
> could also run the vm against physical disk partitions. (Not 
> recommended for Windows - it gets very unhappy at the hardware 
> changes. But if you only ever boot it that way / the vm hardware 
> doesn't change, you'd be OK.) [hw change as in dual boot AND vm boot.]
>
> So, you could copy the vm to a usb key, go to different machines, and 
> see if you can spot a difference. For that matter, I suspect with a 
> live cd and this vm on a usb key, you could walk around trying 
> hardware / speed.
>
> Do you have any sense as to the cause of the slowness? Is it lack of 
> memory, are you CPU bound, is the video slow?
>
> Insurance Squared Inc. wrote, On 08/30/2010 10:43 AM:
>> My wife is running Mandriva(32bit) on her business computer with a 
>> couple of gigs of ram.  Everything runs fine except her windows 
>> bookkeeping app.  I've got virtualbox installed to run windows and 
>> it's just slow -  slow enough that she mentions it.
>>
>> My thinking is that she needs more RAM.  To get more RAM, she really 
>> needs a 64 bit OS.  For a 64 bit OS, I need a machine that has a 
>> processor that will work with that (is that correct?  I've tried to 
>> install mandriva 64bit before on other machines and it objected 
>> because the hardware wasn't 64 bit).
>>
>> Am I on the right track here?  Upgrade her hardware to a new 
>> processor with lots of RAM, then upgrade the OS to take advantage of 
>> the RAM, then virtualbox will run faster?  If so, what kind of 
>> hardware should I be looking at, processor-wise and how much ram 
>> would you get?
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>

-- 
Glenn Cooke
Insurance Squared Inc.
(866) 779-1499
www.insurancesquared.com

Insurance Agent Discussion Forum:
www.americaninsurancebroker.com





From unsolicited at swiz.ca  Mon Aug 30 14:10:16 2010
From: unsolicited at swiz.ca (unsolicited)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 14:10:16 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] upgrading hardware/64bit OS
In-Reply-To: <4C7BE90B.6070706@insurancesquared.com>
References: <4C7BC382.7050308@insurancesquared.com> <4C7BE4B9.30906@swiz.ca>
	<4C7BE90B.6070706@insurancesquared.com>
Message-ID: <4C7BF408.8020602@swiz.ca>

It's so easy to stick it on a usb key and test - why guess.

For a machine (don't know Athlon's), go to http://factorydirect.ca/. 
For older, don't do Intel less than about 3.0 (2.8) GHz WITH 
HyperThreading - it's not worth it. For later / new - something with a 
dual core, and, given prior threads, something with the vm instruction 
set in the CPU. (Others can advise specifics better than I.) 
Regardless, you're going to want at least 4GB memory (if 32-bit) and 
running a VM. So you'll be buying memory unless it's a spanking new 
computer.

Throwing memory (these days) is no longer a sure fire fix. 'Slow' is 
slow - a moving target, especially as today's OS' are harder on video. 
Widgets take more 'power'.

 From your note, I gather this is a desktop not a laptop. In my 
experience, throwing in a somewhat decent video card brings miles more 
performance. e.g. going from the motherboard video to an AGP Nvidia 
card ($50?) boosted perceived performance amazingly.

If the current machine is at all decent, CPU wise, e.g. hyperthreaded, 
then it will always be useful as a spare box. Upgrading CPU / memory / 
graphics won't go to waste.

Insurance Squared Inc. wrote, On 08/30/2010 1:23 PM:
> Good point, maybe it is the processor.  The processor fan on the machine 
> spins way loud when we open up windows, it's working the CPU like a dog 
> :).  I know that can get complicated though, not enough mem can make the 
> processor work harder.  I normally just assume though that more ram 
> makes my worries go away.  Perhaps just a cpu upgrade (or more 
> specifically an upgrade to a machine with a better CPU) is the way to go.
> 
> What's out there these days for good cpu's?  I don't know even the lingo 
> anymore, buying old XP boxes off kijiji and ebay have worked so well for 
> me over the last 3-5 years.
> 
> On 30/08/10 01:04 PM, unsolicited wrote:
>> You should be able to upgrade to 4GB RAM without any software changes, 
>> and see a difference, if there is a difference to be seen. i.e. If 
>> it's, or the machine, is memory starved, this should get you over a 
>> hump. One vm with 4GB RAM hard, 2GB for VM, should be more than 
>> sufficient no matter how much memory you have. i.e. If not running 
>> multiple more vm's, 4GB would be sufficient - 32/64 bit won't be an 
>> issue, and more RAM isn't going to help.
>>
>> Since it's a vm, you could try it on different machines you have, and 
>> see to what extent you see a performance gain. e.g. More RAM on one 
>> machine vs. a faster CPU on another.
>>
>> FWIW, on a Windows machine, virtualbox was so slow I went back to 
>> vmware player. YMMV. You could try this vm under windows and just peek 
>> if there are any noticeable performance changes.
>>
>> Any 64 bit OS can vm a 32 bit OS, but the reverse is not true. You 
>> could also run the vm against physical disk partitions. (Not 
>> recommended for Windows - it gets very unhappy at the hardware 
>> changes. But if you only ever boot it that way / the vm hardware 
>> doesn't change, you'd be OK.) [hw change as in dual boot AND vm boot.]
>>
>> So, you could copy the vm to a usb key, go to different machines, and 
>> see if you can spot a difference. For that matter, I suspect with a 
>> live cd and this vm on a usb key, you could walk around trying 
>> hardware / speed.
>>
>> Do you have any sense as to the cause of the slowness? Is it lack of 
>> memory, are you CPU bound, is the video slow?
>>
>> Insurance Squared Inc. wrote, On 08/30/2010 10:43 AM:
>>> My wife is running Mandriva(32bit) on her business computer with a 
>>> couple of gigs of ram.  Everything runs fine except her windows 
>>> bookkeeping app.  I've got virtualbox installed to run windows and 
>>> it's just slow -  slow enough that she mentions it.
>>>
>>> My thinking is that she needs more RAM.  To get more RAM, she really 
>>> needs a 64 bit OS.  For a 64 bit OS, I need a machine that has a 
>>> processor that will work with that (is that correct?  I've tried to 
>>> install mandriva 64bit before on other machines and it objected 
>>> because the hardware wasn't 64 bit).
>>>
>>> Am I on the right track here?  Upgrade her hardware to a new 
>>> processor with lots of RAM, then upgrade the OS to take advantage of 
>>> the RAM, then virtualbox will run faster?  If so, what kind of 
>>> hardware should I be looking at, processor-wise and how much ram 
>>> would you get?



From unsolicited at swiz.ca  Mon Aug 30 16:47:06 2010
From: unsolicited at swiz.ca (unsolicited)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:47:06 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] upgrading hardware/64bit OS
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin8J24-aPEH9e3-G5R1j4tJ3cVDtycg=Jr16J3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4C7BC382.7050308@insurancesquared.com>
	<AANLkTin8J24-aPEH9e3-G5R1j4tJ3cVDtycg=Jr16J3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C7C18CA.4050600@swiz.ca>

And, IIRC, this upgrade (kernel change) and memory upgrade, can be 
done in place.

Colin Mackay wrote, On 08/30/2010 10:52 AM:
> You don't need to move to 64-bit to see more than 4gigs of RAM.  You
> can use the PAE Kernel (Physical Address Extension).  I use it on my
> server with 6 gigs of RAM, running Fedora 10 32-bit, runs just fine.
> 
> I am not sure if there is a Mandriva PAE kernel, you'd have to go looking.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Insurance Squared Inc.
> <gcooke at insurancesquared.com> wrote:
>> My wife is running Mandriva(32bit) on her business computer with a couple of
>> gigs of ram.  Everything runs fine except her windows bookkeeping app.  I've
>> got virtualbox installed to run windows and it's just slow -  slow enough
>> that she mentions it.
>>
>> My thinking is that she needs more RAM.  To get more RAM, she really needs a
>> 64 bit OS.  For a 64 bit OS, I need a machine that has a processor that will
>> work with that (is that correct?  I've tried to install mandriva 64bit
>> before on other machines and it objected because the hardware wasn't 64
>> bit).
>>
>> Am I on the right track here?  Upgrade her hardware to a new processor with
>> lots of RAM, then upgrade the OS to take advantage of the RAM, then
>> virtualbox will run faster?  If so, what kind of hardware should I be
>> looking at, processor-wise and how much ram would you get?
>>
>> g.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 



From kb at 2bits.com  Mon Aug 30 18:46:57 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:46:57 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Open source mobile phone over VoIP
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=5ROCnpDMSZwkM5TLEW683V583LGNah8WwfGuJ@mail.gmail.com>

This is cool technology.

To the cell phone, it is just a GSM network.

On the other end, it goes over VoIP, and calls are routed.

Awesome ...

http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/10/08/30/2133247/Burning-Man-Goes-Open-Source-For-Cell-Phones
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From john at netdirect.ca  Mon Aug 30 18:58:46 2010
From: john at netdirect.ca (John Van Ostrand)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:58:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] upgrading hardware/64bit OS
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin8J24-aPEH9e3-G5R1j4tJ3cVDtycg=Jr16J3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17858130.24.1283209126474.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>

----- Original Message -----
> You don't need to move to 64-bit to see more than 4gigs of RAM. You
> can use the PAE Kernel (Physical Address Extension). I use it on my
> server with 6 gigs of RAM, running Fedora 10 32-bit, runs just fine.
> 
> I am not sure if there is a Mandriva PAE kernel, you'd have to go
> looking.

There is a difference though. When in PAE mode a single 32 bit process cannot access more than 4GB  of memory. That means that if you are running a database or Apache in threaded mode or any other single process server you can't effectively use lots of memory.

in 64 bit a single process can access the entire memory.

-- 
John Van Ostrand 
CTO, co-CEO 
Net Direct Inc. 
564 Weber St. N. Unit 12, Waterloo, ON N2L 5C6 
Ph: 866-883-1172 x5102 
Fx: 519-883-8533 

Linux Solutions / IBM Hardware 




From jeff.w.bulk at gmail.com  Mon Aug 30 19:03:28 2010
From: jeff.w.bulk at gmail.com (J W)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:03:28 -0700
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Debugging for memory use
In-Reply-To: <1283186109.12291.0.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>
References: <AANLkTi=rs=Qu7UdAO0LoL44p2kY12HS=JAUvME3f=zie@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=xp0aHfPExHFnuDzgu14kpT=jf23yXYsdi54is@mail.gmail.com>
	<1283184812.28691.15.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>
	<1283186109.12291.0.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>
Message-ID: <7980748309540189995@unknownmsgid>

Just a thought, but have you tried to replicate the bug in a vm or fresh
install?
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From bjonkman at sobac.com  Mon Aug 30 20:28:55 2010
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:28:55 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] New Learning Resource
In-Reply-To: <14198080.3229.1283016176947.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
References: <14198080.3229.1283016176947.JavaMail.root@kongo.netdirect.ca>
Message-ID: <1283214535.2158.63.camel@niven-lucidlynx>

On Sat, 2010-08-28 at 13:22 -0400, John Van Ostrand wrote:

> What's an Atom feed?
> 

Atom is the IETF standard for a syndication feed, RFC4287:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4287

There is also an Atom publishing protocol
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5023 

There are also various extensions: Atom Threading Extension
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5023 ; Atom License Extension
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4946




-- 

Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>         http://sobac.com/sobac/
SOBAC Microcomputer Services              Voice: +1-519-669-0388
6 James Street, Elmira ON  Canada  N3B 1L5  Cel: +1-519-635-9413
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting





From kb at 2bits.com  Mon Aug 30 21:37:43 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:37:43 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4 times
Message-ID: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>

This is posted on behalf of a friend who is trying to post to the list,
but having problems. Paul is looking into why this is happening,
but meanwhile, Darryl is frustrated and about to ditch Ubuntu for
Windows.

Specifically, he would like to know if he can log the boot sequence
to see where it gets stuck.

Message follows ...


I bought new PC - Asus P6T SE with an intel i7-930, 6BG mem.

Clean install of Ubunutu 10.4 - 32 bit general at first then upgrade pae
kernel.
Both have the same problem.

When I boot most of the time I get a black screen.

I changed boot options to add nomodeset and removed the splash and quiet
options from the grub menu.
Some forums suggested the nomodeset.  Now I see where it freezes.

It either works or freezes just after allocating memory pages.

Trying to log the boot sequence.  Haven't had much luck.  There is bootlog
info
in /var/log/syslog but I never seem to see the info from when it failed,
only when
it succeeds.

Changed /etc/default/bootlogd BOOTLOGD_ENABLE=No to Yes
Supposed to log to /var/log/boot but nothing there

Any Ideas.  The only thing working reliably right now is Windows 7.

Rebooting several times it eventually works.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com  Mon Aug 30 22:03:43 2010
From: ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com (Lori Paniak)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:03:43 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4
 times
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1283220223.1972.12.camel@callisto>

Why 32-bit on a hot-rod like that?  Can he try 64-bit?

Does a live cd work?

Maybe he has a bad stick of RAM?  Have him run memtest.  I've seen
Windows machines happily boot with bad memory only to do nefarious
things later like silently corrupt files.

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 21:37 -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> This is posted on behalf of a friend who is trying to post to the
> list, 
> but having problems. Paul is looking into why this is happening, 
> but meanwhile, Darryl is frustrated and about to ditch Ubuntu for
> Windows.
> 
> Specifically, he would like to know if he can log the boot sequence
> to see where it gets stuck.
> 
> Message follows ...
> 
> 
> I bought new PC - Asus P6T SE with an intel i7-930, 6BG mem.
> 
> Clean install of Ubunutu 10.4 - 32 bit general at first then upgrade
> pae kernel.
> Both have the same problem.
> 
> When I boot most of the time I get a black screen.
> 
> I changed boot options to add nomodeset and removed the splash and
> quiet 
> options from the grub menu.
> Some forums suggested the nomodeset.  Now I see where it freezes.
> 
> It either works or freezes just after allocating memory pages.
> 
> Trying to log the boot sequence.  Haven't had much luck.  There is
> bootlog info 
> in /var/log/syslog but I never seem to see the info from when it
> failed, only when 
> it succeeds.
> 
> Changed /etc/default/bootlogd BOOTLOGD_ENABLE=No to Yes
> Supposed to log to /var/log/boot but nothing there
> 
> Any Ideas.  The only thing working reliably right now is Windows 7.
> 
> Rebooting several times it eventually works.
> 
> -- 
> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
> 2bits.com, Inc.
> http://2bits.com
> Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
> Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org

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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Mon Aug 30 21:22:42 2010
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:22:42 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of
	4	times
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20100831012242.GF15023@pirg.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 09:37:43PM -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> 
> Specifically, he would like to know if he can log the boot sequence
> to see where it gets stuck.
> 
> Message follows ...
> 
> I bought new PC - Asus P6T SE with an intel i7-930, 6BG mem.

I looked online at this board and I guess it does not come in with
built-in video (which is where a lot of the Ubuntu Intel problems
are). What is the video card?

The symptoms sound very familiar, but I keep running into bugs
documented here: 

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Bugs/Lucidi8xxFreezes

I find that switching to VESA mode (Workaround B) sometimes helps. If
it does then you know something is up with the video. 

> I changed boot options to add nomodeset and removed the splash and quiet
> options from the grub menu.
> Some forums suggested the nomodeset.  Now I see where it freezes.

I wrote this in a personal mail to Darryl, but I find that adding 

init=/sbin/init -v

produces lots of debugging information and (more importantly?) turns
off Plymouth. I got that tip here: 

http://staff.adams.edu/~cdmiller/posts/Ubuntu-Lucid-server-disable-plymouth/

I am guessing that none of these tips will help Darryl, since Khalid
reposted his query to the list. But they may come in handy for others
wrestling with Ubuntu's stupid boot sequence decisions. 

- Paul

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From ldoneill at golden.net  Mon Aug 30 22:53:37 2010
From: ldoneill at golden.net (Darryl O'Neill)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 22:53:37 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4
 times
In-Reply-To: <1283220223.1972.12.camel@callisto>
References: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1283220223.1972.12.camel@callisto>
Message-ID: <4C7C6EB1.5080300@golden.net>

I will see if the reply works.

The live CD seems to work whenever I try it.
 From what I have seen 64 but does not do flash so you can't do some 
things on the web.  I am sure it is coming.
32-bit PAE kernel gets me the full 6GB and I don't have processes the 
need more than 4GB so I am good.

I have booted into memtest and everything has run through.

Once it boots it runs fine.  Problem is it only boots 25% of the time.  
Then power off and try again. and again.

Darryl

Lori Paniak wrote:
> Why 32-bit on a hot-rod like that?  Can he try 64-bit?
>
> Does a live cd work?
>
> Maybe he has a bad stick of RAM?  Have him run memtest.  I've seen
> Windows machines happily boot with bad memory only to do nefarious
> things later like silently corrupt files.
>
> On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 21:37 -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
>   
>> This is posted on behalf of a friend who is trying to post to the
>> list, 
>> but having problems. Paul is looking into why this is happening, 
>> but meanwhile, Darryl is frustrated and about to ditch Ubuntu for
>> Windows.
>>
>> Specifically, he would like to know if he can log the boot sequence
>> to see where it gets stuck.
>>
>> Message follows ...
>>
>>
>> I bought new PC - Asus P6T SE with an intel i7-930, 6BG mem.
>>
>> Clean install of Ubunutu 10.4 - 32 bit general at first then upgrade
>> pae kernel.
>> Both have the same problem.
>>
>> When I boot most of the time I get a black screen.
>>
>> I changed boot options to add nomodeset and removed the splash and
>> quiet 
>> options from the grub menu.
>> Some forums suggested the nomodeset.  Now I see where it freezes.
>>
>> It either works or freezes just after allocating memory pages.
>>
>> Trying to log the boot sequence.  Haven't had much luck.  There is
>> bootlog info 
>> in /var/log/syslog but I never seem to see the info from when it
>> failed, only when 
>> it succeeds.
>>
>> Changed /etc/default/bootlogd BOOTLOGD_ENABLE=No to Yes
>> Supposed to log to /var/log/boot but nothing there
>>
>> Any Ideas.  The only thing working reliably right now is Windows 7.
>>
>> Rebooting several times it eventually works.
>>
>> -- 
>> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
>> 2bits.com, Inc.
>> http://2bits.com
>> Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
>> Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>     
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>   




From kb at 2bits.com  Mon Aug 30 23:00:09 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:00:09 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4
	times
In-Reply-To: <4C7C6EB1.5080300@golden.net>
References: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1283220223.1972.12.camel@callisto> <4C7C6EB1.5080300@golden.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimLOEsFpeYq9snoiiwnUczW1bE1dbM9W34072gN@mail.gmail.com>

Hope your message made it out to the list this time. If not, then by
replying, it will go there.

On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Darryl O'Neill <ldoneill at golden.net>wrote:

> I will see if the reply works.
>
> The live CD seems to work whenever I try it.
> From what I have seen 64 but does not do flash so you can't do some things
> on the web.  I am sure it is coming.
> 32-bit PAE kernel gets me the full 6GB and I don't have processes the need
> more than 4GB so I am good.
>
> I have booted into memtest and everything has run through.
>
> Once it boots it runs fine.  Problem is it only boots 25% of the time.
>  Then power off and try again. and again.
>

64-bit works with Flash without issues. I am using that on several machines
with no problems. I did not have to do anything special. I think Firefox
spawns a process called npviewer that encapsulates the 32-bit Flash.

Not that it will solve your problem, but if I had such a machine, I will go
64-bit for sure.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From chris at chrisirwin.ca  Mon Aug 30 23:10:14 2010
From: chris at chrisirwin.ca (Chris Irwin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:10:14 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4
 times
In-Reply-To: <4C7C6EB1.5080300@golden.net>
References: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1283220223.1972.12.camel@callisto>  <4C7C6EB1.5080300@golden.net>
Message-ID: <1283224214.21104.12.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 22:53 -0400, Darryl O'Neill wrote:
> I will see if the reply works.
> 
> The live CD seems to work whenever I try it.
>  From what I have seen 64 but does not do flash so you can't do some 
> things on the web.  I am sure it is coming.

I'm not so sure it is coming since Adobe killed their 64-bit beta a
while back. But you can use 32-bit flash with 64-bit Firefox, and
Ubuntu's packaging system takes care of that for you. I don't use
firefox anymore, so I can't comment on how well it works, but I can say
that it also works just fine with chromium on 64-bit.

I've run 64-bit for a few years now.

> 32-bit PAE kernel gets me the full 6GB and I don't have processes the 
> need more than 4GB so I am good.

There are other processor features that are available for 64-bit
systems, but if you're just taking your hotrod PC for a sunday
web-browsing drive, you won't notice, and could probably live without
PAE as well.

> I have booted into memtest and everything has run through.
> 
> Once it boots it runs fine.  Problem is it only boots 25% of the time.  
> Then power off and try again. and again.

I'm curious what you're running for video. This sounds somewhat similar
to some issues I've heard with newish nvidia cards and the open-source
nouveau driver. Installing the proprietary nvidia driver *should* solve
that, assuming you haven't installed that driver yet, as long as you
don't mind a closed blob...

The only problem I've seen with the core i* series so far was due to the
on-package GPU on the i3 and i5, but that isn't an option for the i7
line (at least not on the desktop), so I'd be leaning toward a video
issue...

Also, I know you're not 

-- 
Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
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From rarsa at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 30 23:27:25 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:27:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4
	times
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <593626.31674.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Here is an Idea.

After a failed start, he can start the computer with a live CD or USB and then look at the log files.

Raul Suarez



Technology consultant

Software, Hardware and Practices

_________________

Twitter: rarsamx

http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 

An eclectic collection of random thoughts

--- On Mon, 8/30/10, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:

From: Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com>
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4 times
To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
Received: Monday, August 30, 2010, 9:37 PM

This is posted on behalf of a friend who is trying to post to the list, 
but having problems. Paul is looking into why this is happening, 
but meanwhile, Darryl is frustrated and about to ditch Ubuntu for
Windows.


Specifically, he would like to know if he can log the boot sequence
to see where it gets stuck.

Message follows ...




I bought new PC - Asus P6T SE with an intel i7-930, 6BG mem.



Clean install of Ubunutu 10.4 - 32 bit general at first then upgrade pae kernel.

Both have the same problem.



When I boot most of the time I get a black screen.



I changed boot options to add nomodeset and removed the splash and quiet 
options from the grub menu.

Some forums suggested the nomodeset. ?Now I see where it freezes.



It either works or freezes just after allocating memory pages.



Trying to log the boot sequence. ?Haven't had much luck. ?There is bootlog info 
in /var/log/syslog but I never seem to see the info from when it failed, only when 
it succeeds.



Changed /etc/default/bootlogd BOOTLOGD_ENABLE=No to Yes

Supposed to log to /var/log/boot but nothing there



Any Ideas. ?The only thing working reliably right now is Windows 7.



Rebooting several times it eventually works.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.

Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --? Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --?? Leonardo da Vinci


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_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org


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From ldoneill at golden.net  Mon Aug 30 23:29:22 2010
From: ldoneill at golden.net (Darryl O'Neill)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:29:22 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4
 times
In-Reply-To: <1283224214.21104.12.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>
References: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>	<1283220223.1972.12.camel@callisto>
	<4C7C6EB1.5080300@golden.net>
	<1283224214.21104.12.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>
Message-ID: <4C7C7712.2030508@golden.net>

I have an ASUS GT 240 NVidia based.  I am running the NVidia drivers.  
Perhaps I should ditch them since the live CD works.


Chris Irwin wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 22:53 -0400, Darryl O'Neill wrote:
>   
>> I will see if the reply works.
>>
>> The live CD seems to work whenever I try it.
>>  From what I have seen 64 but does not do flash so you can't do some 
>> things on the web.  I am sure it is coming.
>>     
>
> I'm not so sure it is coming since Adobe killed their 64-bit beta a
> while back. But you can use 32-bit flash with 64-bit Firefox, and
> Ubuntu's packaging system takes care of that for you. I don't use
> firefox anymore, so I can't comment on how well it works, but I can say
> that it also works just fine with chromium on 64-bit.
>
> I've run 64-bit for a few years now.
>
>   
>> 32-bit PAE kernel gets me the full 6GB and I don't have processes the 
>> need more than 4GB so I am good.
>>     
>
> There are other processor features that are available for 64-bit
> systems, but if you're just taking your hotrod PC for a sunday
> web-browsing drive, you won't notice, and could probably live without
> PAE as well.
>
>   
>> I have booted into memtest and everything has run through.
>>
>> Once it boots it runs fine.  Problem is it only boots 25% of the time.  
>> Then power off and try again. and again.
>>     
>
> I'm curious what you're running for video. This sounds somewhat similar
> to some issues I've heard with newish nvidia cards and the open-source
> nouveau driver. Installing the proprietary nvidia driver *should* solve
> that, assuming you haven't installed that driver yet, as long as you
> don't mind a closed blob...
>
> The only problem I've seen with the core i* series so far was due to the
> on-package GPU on the i3 and i5, but that isn't an option for the i7
> line (at least not on the desktop), so I'd be leaning toward a video
> issue...
>
> Also, I know you're not 
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>   




From rarsa at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 30 23:29:29 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:29:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4
	times
In-Reply-To: <593626.31674.qm@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <820215.41055.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

And I mean, the log files in the HDD partition, not the log files from the live CD.

Raul Suarez



Technology consultant

Software, Hardware and Practices

_________________

Twitter: rarsamx

http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 

An eclectic collection of random thoughts

--- On Mon, 8/30/10, Raul Suarez <rarsa at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Raul Suarez <rarsa at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4 times
To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
Received: Monday, August 30, 2010, 11:27 PM

Here is an Idea.

After a failed start, he can start the computer with a live CD or USB and then look at the log files.

Raul Suarez



Technology consultant

Software, Hardware and Practices

_________________

Twitter: rarsamx

http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 

An eclectic collection of random thoughts

--- On Mon, 8/30/10, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:

From: Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com>
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4 times
To: "KWLUG discussion" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
Received: Monday, August 30, 2010, 9:37 PM

This is posted on behalf of a friend who is trying to post to the list, 
but having problems. Paul is looking into why this is happening, 
but meanwhile, Darryl is frustrated and about to ditch Ubuntu for
Windows.


Specifically, he would like to know if he can log the boot sequence
to see where it gets stuck.

Message follows ...




I bought new PC - Asus P6T SE with an intel i7-930, 6BG mem.



Clean install of Ubunutu 10.4 - 32 bit general at first then upgrade pae kernel.

Both have the same problem.



When I boot most of the time I get a black screen.



I changed boot options to add nomodeset and removed the splash and quiet 
options from the grub menu.

Some forums suggested the nomodeset. ?Now I see where it freezes.



It either works or freezes just after allocating memory pages.



Trying to log the boot sequence. ?Haven't had much luck. ?There is bootlog info 
in /var/log/syslog but I never seem to see the info from when it failed, only when 
it succeeds.



Changed /etc/default/bootlogd BOOTLOGD_ENABLE=No to Yes

Supposed to log to /var/log/boot but nothing there



Any Ideas. ?The only thing working reliably right now is Windows 7.



Rebooting several times it eventually works.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.

Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --? Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --?? Leonardo da Vinci


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From kb at 2bits.com  Mon Aug 30 23:32:49 2010
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:32:49 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4
	times
In-Reply-To: <4C7C7712.2030508@golden.net>
References: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1283220223.1972.12.camel@callisto> <4C7C6EB1.5080300@golden.net>
	<1283224214.21104.12.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>
	<4C7C7712.2030508@golden.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimFr5Jb2FqofLr-Yne4Do9v6MytL6vTT2VSNjdk@mail.gmail.com>

Reply from Darryl re: video card.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Darryl O'Neill <ldoneill at golden.net>
Date: Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4
times
To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>


I have an ASUS GT 240 NVidia based.  I am running the NVidia drivers.
 Perhaps I should ditch them since the live CD works.


Chris Irwin wrote:

> On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 22:53 -0400, Darryl O'Neill wrote:
>
>
>> I will see if the reply works.
>>
>> The live CD seems to work whenever I try it.
>>  From what I have seen 64 but does not do flash so you can't do some
>> things on the web.  I am sure it is coming.
>>
>>
>
> I'm not so sure it is coming since Adobe killed their 64-bit beta a
> while back. But you can use 32-bit flash with 64-bit Firefox, and
> Ubuntu's packaging system takes care of that for you. I don't use
> firefox anymore, so I can't comment on how well it works, but I can say
> that it also works just fine with chromium on 64-bit.
>
> I've run 64-bit for a few years now.
>
>
>
>> 32-bit PAE kernel gets me the full 6GB and I don't have processes the need
>> more than 4GB so I am good.
>>
>>
>
> There are other processor features that are available for 64-bit
> systems, but if you're just taking your hotrod PC for a sunday
> web-browsing drive, you won't notice, and could probably live without
> PAE as well.
>
>
>
>> I have booted into memtest and everything has run through.
>>
>> Once it boots it runs fine.  Problem is it only boots 25% of the time.
>>  Then power off and try again. and again.
>>
>>
>
> I'm curious what you're running for video. This sounds somewhat similar
> to some issues I've heard with newish nvidia cards and the open-source
> nouveau driver. Installing the proprietary nvidia driver *should* solve
> that, assuming you haven't installed that driver yet, as long as you
> don't mind a closed blob...
>
> The only problem I've seen with the core i* series so far was due to the
> on-package GPU on the i3 and i5, but that isn't an option for the i7
> line (at least not on the desktop), so I'd be leaning toward a video
> issue...
>
> Also, I know you're not
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>


_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
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-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
http://2bits.com
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
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From rarsa at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 30 23:40:04 2010
From: rarsa at yahoo.com (Raul Suarez)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Debugging for memory use
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=rs=Qu7UdAO0LoL44p2kY12HS=JAUvME3f=zie@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <774858.46048.qm@web30903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Have you tried this: http://opensource.weblogsinc.com/2006/06/07/really-fix-a-busted-gnome/ ?

Raul Suarez

Technology consultant
Software, Hardware and Practices
_________________
Twitter: rarsamx
http://rarsa.blogspot.com/ 
An eclectic collection of random thoughts


--- On Mon, 8/30/10, Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca> wrote:

> From: Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
> Subject: [kwlug-disc] Debugging for memory use
> To: "KWLug" <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Received: Monday, August 30, 2010, 11:27 AM
> Short question: How do I find out why
> nautilus is using so much
> memory, and maybe fix it. I'm somewhat of a rookie when it
> comes to
> debugging applications, but I have some C ability, and
> wouldn't mind
> investing the time to fix my issue.
> 
> Long explanation: I've been having a problem where over
> time my
> machine has less and less free memory. After some playing
> around, it
> turns out that about 500MB of 'stuff' had been swapped out.
> I have 4GB
> of ram, and `free -m` showed very little as 'cached' (maybe
> 100MB), so
> I'm looking at 'actual' memory usage.
> 
> First thing I did was kill chromium. For a browser, it
> tends to be
> rather memory intensive. That only freed up a few hundred
> MB of
> memory. My machine, sitting at an empty Gnome desktop was
> using ~3.2
> GB doing nothing. After some detective work I killed
> nautilus and
> suddenly had an extra 1 GB of memory available. This has
> happened
> twice so far, but the effects are far enough removed from
> any actual
> nautilus use that I don't know what caused it.
> 
> So, how can I investigate this? Can I install symbols and
> connect to a
> running nautilus process with gdb? Also, how do I use gdb?
> Is there
> something else that is better suited for debugging memory
> issues?
> 
> -- 
> Chris Irwin
> <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 





From chris at chrisirwin.ca  Mon Aug 30 23:40:25 2010
From: chris at chrisirwin.ca (Chris Irwin)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:40:25 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Fwd: My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of
 4 times
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimFr5Jb2FqofLr-Yne4Do9v6MytL6vTT2VSNjdk@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1283220223.1972.12.camel@callisto> <4C7C6EB1.5080300@golden.net>
	<1283224214.21104.12.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>
	<4C7C7712.2030508@golden.net>
	<AANLkTimFr5Jb2FqofLr-Yne4Do9v6MytL6vTT2VSNjdk@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1283226025.21104.14.camel@Thinkpad.chrisirwin.ca>

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 23:32 -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> Reply from Darryl re: video card.

I'm getting Darryl's replies from the list, so it appears things are
working now..
-- 
Chris Irwin <chris at chrisirwin.ca>
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From ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com  Mon Aug 30 23:55:56 2010
From: ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com (Lori Paniak)
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:55:56 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4
 times
In-Reply-To: <4C7C6EB1.5080300@golden.net>
References: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>
	<1283220223.1972.12.camel@callisto>  <4C7C6EB1.5080300@golden.net>
Message-ID: <1283226957.1972.41.camel@callisto>

Honestly, I think you would be better off with 64-bit Ubuntu on that
system.  I use it on all my desktop and laptop systems and Flash in
10.04 just works.

Using a 32-bit Ubuntu kernel is a real step back into the 20th century
because it is 386 code - not even 686.  You are giving up SSE and
many/most of the significant architectural advances in your 930 CPU.

Have you checked the md5sum on your install media?

I find the Nvidia driver only works properly if you uninstall nouveau.
See: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia#Common%
20Issues

Does the system boot with nouveau, leaving out the NVIDIA proprietary
driver?  Could be a conflict between these two.

 

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 22:53 -0400, Darryl O'Neill wrote:
> I will see if the reply works.
> 
> The live CD seems to work whenever I try it.
>  From what I have seen 64 but does not do flash so you can't do some 
> things on the web.  I am sure it is coming.
> 32-bit PAE kernel gets me the full 6GB and I don't have processes the 
> need more than 4GB so I am good.
> 
> I have booted into memtest and everything has run through.
> 
> Once it boots it runs fine.  Problem is it only boots 25% of the time.  
> Then power off and try again. and again.
> 
> Darryl
> 
> Lori Paniak wrote:
> > Why 32-bit on a hot-rod like that?  Can he try 64-bit?
> >
> > Does a live cd work?
> >
> > Maybe he has a bad stick of RAM?  Have him run memtest.  I've seen
> > Windows machines happily boot with bad memory only to do nefarious
> > things later like silently corrupt files.
> >
> > On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 21:37 -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> >   
> >> This is posted on behalf of a friend who is trying to post to the
> >> list, 
> >> but having problems. Paul is looking into why this is happening, 
> >> but meanwhile, Darryl is frustrated and about to ditch Ubuntu for
> >> Windows.
> >>
> >> Specifically, he would like to know if he can log the boot sequence
> >> to see where it gets stuck.
> >>
> >> Message follows ...
> >>
> >>
> >> I bought new PC - Asus P6T SE with an intel i7-930, 6BG mem.
> >>
> >> Clean install of Ubunutu 10.4 - 32 bit general at first then upgrade
> >> pae kernel.
> >> Both have the same problem.
> >>
> >> When I boot most of the time I get a black screen.
> >>
> >> I changed boot options to add nomodeset and removed the splash and
> >> quiet 
> >> options from the grub menu.
> >> Some forums suggested the nomodeset.  Now I see where it freezes.
> >>
> >> It either works or freezes just after allocating memory pages.
> >>
> >> Trying to log the boot sequence.  Haven't had much luck.  There is
> >> bootlog info 
> >> in /var/log/syslog but I never seem to see the info from when it
> >> failed, only when 
> >> it succeeds.
> >>
> >> Changed /etc/default/bootlogd BOOTLOGD_ENABLE=No to Yes
> >> Supposed to log to /var/log/boot but nothing there
> >>
> >> Any Ideas.  The only thing working reliably right now is Windows 7.
> >>
> >> Rebooting several times it eventually works.
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
> >> 2bits.com, Inc.
> >> http://2bits.com
> >> Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
> >> Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
> >> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> >> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> >> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >>     
> >
> >   
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> > kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> > http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org

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From ldoneill at golden.net  Tue Aug 31 00:25:40 2010
From: ldoneill at golden.net (Darryl O'Neill)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 00:25:40 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] My Ubuntu 10.4 will only start about 1 out of 4
 times
In-Reply-To: <1283226957.1972.41.camel@callisto>
References: <AANLkTims034XUo47QcExG_+u833c-xPRudEL3M6y3gyc@mail.gmail.com>	<1283220223.1972.12.camel@callisto>
	<4C7C6EB1.5080300@golden.net> <1283226957.1972.41.camel@callisto>
Message-ID: <4C7C8444.30307@golden.net>

Thanks for all of your suggestions.   I will try some of them out over 
the next few days and post back if I am still stuck.

I will try out the 64-bit install.  I don't have too much invested in 
the 32 bit install at this point.

Darryl

Lori Paniak wrote:
> Honestly, I think you would be better off with 64-bit Ubuntu on that
> system.  I use it on all my desktop and laptop systems and Flash in
> 10.04 just works.
>
> Using a 32-bit Ubuntu kernel is a real step back into the 20th century
> because it is 386 code - not even 686.  You are giving up SSE and
> many/most of the significant architectural advances in your 930 CPU.
>
> Have you checked the md5sum on your install media?
>
> I find the Nvidia driver only works properly if you uninstall nouveau.
> See: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia#Common%
> 20Issues
>
> Does the system boot with nouveau, leaving out the NVIDIA proprietary
> driver?  Could be a conflict between these two.
>
>  
>
> On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 22:53 -0400, Darryl O'Neill wrote:
>   
>> I will see if the reply works.
>>
>> The live CD seems to work whenever I try it.
>>  From what I have seen 64 but does not do flash so you can't do some 
>> things on the web.  I am sure it is coming.
>> 32-bit PAE kernel gets me the full 6GB and I don't have processes the 
>> need more than 4GB so I am good.
>>
>> I have booted into memtest and everything has run through.
>>
>> Once it boots it runs fine.  Problem is it only boots 25% of the time.  
>> Then power off and try again. and again.
>>
>> Darryl
>>
>> Lori Paniak wrote:
>>     
>>> Why 32-bit on a hot-rod like that?  Can he try 64-bit?
>>>
>>> Does a live cd work?
>>>
>>> Maybe he has a bad stick of RAM?  Have him run memtest.  I've seen
>>> Windows machines happily boot with bad memory only to do nefarious
>>> things later like silently corrupt files.
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 21:37 -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> This is posted on behalf of a friend who is trying to post to the
>>>> list, 
>>>> but having problems. Paul is looking into why this is happening, 
>>>> but meanwhile, Darryl is frustrated and about to ditch Ubuntu for
>>>> Windows.
>>>>
>>>> Specifically, he would like to know if he can log the boot sequence
>>>> to see where it gets stuck.
>>>>
>>>> Message follows ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I bought new PC - Asus P6T SE with an intel i7-930, 6BG mem.
>>>>
>>>> Clean install of Ubunutu 10.4 - 32 bit general at first then upgrade
>>>> pae kernel.
>>>> Both have the same problem.
>>>>
>>>> When I boot most of the time I get a black screen.
>>>>
>>>> I changed boot options to add nomodeset and removed the splash and
>>>> quiet 
>>>> options from the grub menu.
>>>> Some forums suggested the nomodeset.  Now I see where it freezes.
>>>>
>>>> It either works or freezes just after allocating memory pages.
>>>>
>>>> Trying to log the boot sequence.  Haven't had much luck.  There is
>>>> bootlog info 
>>>> in /var/log/syslog but I never seem to see the info from when it
>>>> failed, only when 
>>>> it succeeds.
>>>>
>>>> Changed /etc/default/bootlogd BOOTLOGD_ENABLE=No to Yes
>>>> Supposed to log to /var/log/boot but nothing there
>>>>
>>>> Any Ideas.  The only thing working reliably right now is Windows 7.
>>>>
>>>> Rebooting several times it eventually works.
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
>>>> 2bits.com, Inc.
>>>> http://2bits.com
>>>> Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
>>>> Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>>>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>>>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>   
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>>   
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
>> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
>> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>     
>
>   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org mailing list
> kwlug-disc_kwlug.org at kwlug.org
> http://astoria.ccjclearline.com/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>   




From webhost at kwlug.org  Tue Aug 31 01:05:02 2010
From: webhost at kwlug.org (webhost at kwlug.org)
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 01:05:02 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG - The Kitchener Waterloo Linux User Group new
	content notification: 2010-08-31 01:05
Message-ID: <E1OqJ1q-0004tk-16@astoria.ccjclearline.com>

Greetings mail-forum-merge,

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recent content - 2 new posts
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Bash Command Line Quoting
Published Book page by john
[ http://kwlug.org/node/767 ]

If you've been following these articles or using the shell you know that
there are several characters that have special meaning in the shell. For
example you may have seen that the dollar sign $ is used to signify the
use of a variable. You may also have seen the asterisk * used to specify
a group of files, so-called file globbing. Even the space is a simple
special character, it separates a command and it's arguments. These are
only a few of the special characters, there are many more.
Special characters are interpreted by the shell before the arguments are
passed to the command. This relieves each of the commands from the
burden and allows the shell to provide consistency in the use of special
characters.
There are times that we find special characters in file names or we want
commands to see the special characters rather than have the shell
interpret or remove the special commands. Fortunately the shell provides
a way to do this, it's called quoting, and it uses three other special
characters.
Double quotes
Double quotes can be used to disable only some of the special
characters. It is useful in disabling all but the $, `, \ and !
characters. One basic way to look at this is that it tells the shell to
ignore shell globbing and spaces. e.g:

rm "file name"

Single quotes is the most powerful of quotes removing the special
meaning of all characters except the single quote. e.g.:

vi 'us$ account.txt'

Backslash can be used to quote a single character. We normally think
that quotes need to surround a string, but in the case of the backslash
since it quotes only a single character it is only needed before the
character. The backslash can quote any character as long as it is not
quoted by itself or a single quote. The only exception is the newline
character, in this case the newline is ignored and not passed to the
command. e.g.

cp us\$account.txt "us dollar account.txt"

Another method of quoting actually adds special characters. The $''
quote allows specification of many non-printable characters, like
newline, bell, tab and others.

echo $'bing \a'

For additional variables to use in the $'' quote view the man page for
bash (i.e. run man bash) and search for the QUOTING section.
Finally there is a $"" quoting method. This seems to be the same as the
double quotes, except that it will change how it works to suit other
languages.
Hyphens
Have you ever seen a filename that begins with a hyphen. These are often
mistakes, but if you find one it can be hard to get rid of. When you try
to use rm (e.g. rm -file the command will think that the -file are
options and will give an error message. This happens with all sorts of
other commands too. 
The fix is easy and fairly consistent, use -- to separate options from
arguments. To use this method supply all your options before the
hyphened file then use -- and then the file name, e.g.

rm -r -- -file
Unprintable Characters
These can be another problem. Somehow, usually because of pressing a
function key at the wrong time, a file is created that begins or
contains a non-printable character. If the name only contains
unprintable characters or doesn't include anything unique that a file
glob can match then you have to resort to this trick.
First let's create a file that has the name of an escape character:

date > $'\033'

I used one of the quotes I mentioned above to create a file named with a
char 27, the ASCII code for Esc. In octal 27 is 33.
Now if you use ls you'll see a file with an odd name. Here is how to
identify it and delete it:
List the directory using the -b option, this will show non-printable
characters as backslash codes:

ls -lb

You'll see a file apparently called \033, this is your "Esc" file. To
delete it we'll use the same code:

rm $'033'

If the file only begins with that you can use a shell glob to handle the
rest:

rm $'\033'*

---

2. Bash Pattern Matching
Published Book page by john
[ http://kwlug.org/node/768 ]

Pattern matching in Bash is also called Globbing. It sounds all bloaty
and goey, but it's really boring and plain and not sticky at all, but
also quite useful. Glob is actually the name of the glibc function that
does the real work.
File pattern matching is usually about selecting groups of files, but it
can be useful in avoiding typing long file names. Rather than type out a
full file name, just type a pattern that contains a unique part and
you've matched the file.
How it Works
When you issue a command and the command or argument contains a pattern,
the shell first expands the pattern to one or more file names and then
runs the command. If the pattern matches the pattern is replaced with
the matching files and the command doesn't see the pattern, only the
matching files. If the pattern fails to match, then, as a default, the
command is given the pattern. 
By default the shell doesn't match hidden file names, i.e. file and
directory names that begin with a dot (.) won't get matched. This
behaviour can be changed (see Configuring Pattern Matching below.)
Case Sensitive
By default file patterns are also case sensitive. Meaning that the files
"upper" and "UPPER" are different.
Asterisk
The most used pattern is the asterisk (*). It matches zero or more of
any character. It can be used at the beginning, middle or end of a
pattern.
Some examples are:


Pattern
Matches


*.pdf
Anything.pdf or just .pdf


img*jpg
img0001.jpg or imgjpg



index.*
index.html or index.php or index.html.bak


*
anything or really or Anything


Question Mark
A lesser used but still useful pattern is the question mark (?). This
indicates any one character.


Pattern
Matches


?ndex.html
Index.html or index.html


file.??
file.01 or file.js


More complicated
Rather than matching all characters you can specify a list of
characters, a range or a class of characters. Using the square brackets
([ and ]) you can specify the characters to match. Despite the pattern
taking up more than one character the pattern will only match one
character.


Pattern
Matches


messages.[123]
messages.1, messages.2 or messages.3


page[a-z].txt
pagea.txt, pageb.txt ... pagez.txt


page[-a-z].txt
As above, but also matches page-.txt


page[^m-z].txt or page[!m-z].txt
Doesn't match files pagem.txt through pagez.txt but matches all others
(i.e. page?.txt)


Classes can be used, these are shortforms for full ranges of characters.
The following clases can be used: alnum, alpha, ascii, blank, cntrl,
digit, graph, lower, print, punct, space, upper, word, xdigit. Use a
class like this:

ls img[:digit:].jpg

That matches img0.jpg through img9.jpg. It seems like it's useless, but
consider that this works independant of language. The real use of these
classes is that if the locale changes (i.e. the language) then the
characters that match also change. So this will match English or Arabic
numerals.
Extended Patterns
Extended patterns can be handy in niche situations, but you'll probably
find that they are disabled by default in your bash. To enable them you
would have to run:

shopt -s extglob

And like all the settings I've mentioned, if you want it to be turned on
every time to start a shell you need to add it to your .bashrc file or
the system-wide /etc/bashrc file.
With extended patterns you can create more complex patterns that match
more than a single character but less than all characters of any length.


?(pattern-list)
Matches zero or one occurrence of the given patterns


*(pattern-list)
Matches zero or more occurrences of the given patterns


+(pattern-list)
Matches one or more occurrences of the given patterns


@(pattern-list)
Matches one of the given patterns


!(pattern-list)
Matches anything except one of the given patterns


The patters can be any of the regular patterns so +([:digit:]) matches
one or more digits.
Configuring Pattern Matching
There are shell options that allow control over how the shell matches
patterns and how it reacts to failed patterns.


dotglob
If set, bash includes filenames beginning with a ?.?  in the results
of pathname expansion.


extglob
If set, the extended pattern matching features described above under
Pathname Expansion are enabled.


failglob
f  set,  patterns  which fail to match filenames during pathname
expansion result in an expansion error.


globstar
If set, the pattern ** used in a filename expansion context will match a
files and zero or more directories and subdirectories. If the pattern is
followed by a /, only directories and subdirectories match.


To see if these options are set run:

shopt dotglob

To set it:

shopt -s dotglob

To unset it:

shopt -u dotglob

As you have come to expect it, to make these changes permanent you need
to add the shopt commands to your .bashrcfile or the system-wide
/etc/bashrc file.
Seeing File Expansion Work
The easy way to see file expansion working is to use the echo command.
Just give it a pattern and it will print the results.

echo *.jpg

Another way it to position you cursor at the end of the pattern and
press Tab twice and the shell will list matching files below. You can
also expand the pattern on the line by positioning your cursor at the
end of the pattern and pressing Ctrl-x then *, the matching files now
appear on the command line.


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