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<correction> Correcting missing not ;) </correction><br>
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cite="mid:fb1ce536-96ae-3e1b-ed3e-03917afa9e06@3nsoft.com">
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<div>Thanks Chris. We are long time Mazda owners. When our
current car starts breaking down, we would like to consider an
electric car. But without this kind of always-on telematics. I
wonder if it will be available?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would like there to be Canadian government legislation
about this, framed as a consumer rights issue.<br>
</div>
<div> 1. The right to be fully informed about telematics before
purchase.<br>
</div>
<div> 2. The right to disable or opt out of telematics, without
crippling the thing being purchased:<br>
</div>
<div> * for privacy (no surveillance)<br>
</div>
<div> * for security (I don't want my car to become part of
someones botnet, and I don't want to give hackers the ability
to remotely take over my car).<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>On the first DefCon with car hacking I bumped into Tesla
engineers and asked appropriate questions, like, can this be
turned off, disabled.<br>
</p>
<p>The disturbing element of the answer is that they didn't display
hesitation/unease about no option to turn off remote connectivity.
Which reminds a very interesting comment by Josha in his second
interview with Lex, at this point <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIpUf-Vy2JA&t=8944s">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIpUf-Vy2JA&t=8944s</a></p>
<p>Out of love for greater good they have in mind an aesthetic of
the world, which some of us know to be evil. I really wish every
single one of engineers in cars and in web tracking to be dragged
through real life in today's russia. Drag ones naked nerves
through it to know that without privacy there is no security,
none.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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cite="mid:fb1ce536-96ae-3e1b-ed3e-03917afa9e06@3nsoft.com">
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cite="mid:97f38ea8-afab-4a69-9ac0-5170f2dc6e1f@www.fastmail.com">
<div>In Europe, the GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation of
2018) gives consumers these rights. It applies equally to car
telematics and cookie tracking on web sites. So if political
activism is required, we can point to the GDPR and say "me
too".<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The new data privacy bill C-27, announced yesterday,
doesn't do the job.<br>
</div>
<div> <a
href="https://openmedia.org/press/item/new-privacy-legislation-repeats-past-mistakes"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://openmedia.org/press/item/new-privacy-legislation-repeats-past-mistakes</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But there is still an opportunity to introduce amendments.
I am going to contact my MP and see what can be done. I
recommend everyone else on this list who is concerned by this
issue to get active.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Doug.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Fri, Jun 17, 2022, at 12:07 AM, Chris Irwin via
kwlug-disc wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style="">
<div>On Thu, Jun 16, 2022, at 17:47, Doug Moen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="qt-qt" style="">
<div>Like for example, we just bought a new washing machine
and dryer. The top selling brand transmits everything you
do to the manufacturer over the internet. For now, this is
opt in, but internet surveillance already cannot be turned
off for a growing number of consumer machines and
appliances. We bought a less popular brand with no
surveillance, because that's something that's still
available.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You may find this interesting/disconcerting:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://www.mazda.ca/en/mazda-connected-vehicle/overview/"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.mazda.ca/en/mazda-connected-vehicle/overview/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Neat, Mazda has an app. It does a bunch of neat things
like letting you start, pre heat/cool your car, unlock
doors, get reminders for service and recalls. Neat. Oh, it
can tell you where you parked your car, too.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Wait, how does this work? Lets check the privacy policy,
because it's not documented anywhere else...<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://www.mazda.ca/en/privacy-policy/cv-privacy/"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.mazda.ca/en/privacy-policy/cv-privacy/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span style=""><u><b>Vehicle Data: </b></u></span>When
you purchase or lease a Connected Vehicle, the telematics
system is active by default and transmits vehicle data,
including driving behavior data (including the
acceleration and speed of your Connected Vehicle, travel
direction, and use of steering and braking functions) and
vehicle health data (which includes Vehicle Identification
Number (VIN); odometer, fuel level, and oil life readings;
Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs); and data from the
Connected Vehicle’s OBD system, including engine coolant
temperature, fuel injection volume, engine Rotation Per
Minute (RPM), and the status of doors, hood, trunk, and
hazard lights). If your Connected Vehicle has a Connected
Services plan, we also collect geo-location coordinates of
your Connected Vehicle’s latitude and longitude.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Oh, and don't forget you've also installed an app on your
phone!<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p><span style=""><u><b>MyMazda Data:</b></u></span> If you
use the MyMazda app, we collect the location of your
device, device type, device operating system, Internet
Protocol (IP) address, unique identifier, type of browser,
Internet service provider, phone number, and information
about your use of MyMazda, including screen time,
scrolling, specific actions and taps, reactions to alerts,
the progress, completion and/or abandonment of
in-application purchases, and crash reports.<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And I'm not picking on Mazda in particular. I'm only
aware of it because I own a Mazda and it came up in a
discussion forum. Almost every car in the last few years has
this kind of connectivity now. People expect it. You can
probably blame Tesla.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="qt-sig91988184">
<div class="qt-signature">-- <br>
</div>
<div class="qt-signature"><b>Chris Irwin</b><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-signature"><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-signature"><span class="qt-font" style=""><span
class="font" style="font-family:menlo, consolas,
monospace, sans-serif;">email: <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated
moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:chris@chrisirwin.ca"
moz-do-not-send="true">chris@chrisirwin.ca</a></span></span><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-signature"><span class="qt-font" style=""><span
class="font" style="font-family:menlo, consolas,
monospace, sans-serif;"> web: <a
href="https://chrisirwin.ca" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://chrisirwin.ca</a></span></span><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>_______________________________________________<br>
</div>
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<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
Mikalai Birukou <br>
CEO | 3NSoft Inc.</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
Mikalai Birukou <br>
CEO | 3NSoft Inc.</div>
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