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<div>Thanks Chris. We are long time Mazda owners. When our current
car starts breaking down, we would like to consider an electric
car. But without this kind of always-on telematics. I wonder if
it will be available?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I would like there to be Canadian government legislation
about this, framed as a consumer rights issue.<br>
</div>
<div> 1. The right to be fully informed about telematics before
purchase.<br>
</div>
<div> 2. The right to disable or opt out of telematics, without
crippling the thing being purchased:<br>
</div>
<div> * for privacy (no surveillance)<br>
</div>
<div> * for security (I don't want my car to become part of
someones botnet, and I don't want to give hackers the ability to
remotely take over my car).<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>On the first DefCon with car hacking I bumped into Tesla
engineers and asked appropriate questions, like, can this be
turned off, disabled.<br>
</p>
<p>The disturbing element of the answer is that they did display
hesitation/unease about no option to turn off remote connectivity.
Which reminds a very interesting comment by Josha in his second
interview with Lex, at this point
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIpUf-Vy2JA&t=8944s">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIpUf-Vy2JA&t=8944s</a></p>
<p>Out of love for greater good they have in mind an aesthetic of
the world, which some of us know to be evil. I really wish every
single one of engineers in cars and in web tracking to be dragged
through real life in today's russia. Drag ones naked nerves
through it to know that without privacy there is no security,
none.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:97f38ea8-afab-4a69-9ac0-5170f2dc6e1f@www.fastmail.com">
<div>In Europe, the GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation of
2018) gives consumers these rights. It applies equally to car
telematics and cookie tracking on web sites. So if political
activism is required, we can point to the GDPR and say "me too".<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The new data privacy bill C-27, announced yesterday, doesn't
do the job.<br>
</div>
<div> <a
href="https://openmedia.org/press/item/new-privacy-legislation-repeats-past-mistakes"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://openmedia.org/press/item/new-privacy-legislation-repeats-past-mistakes</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But there is still an opportunity to introduce amendments. I
am going to contact my MP and see what can be done. I recommend
everyone else on this list who is concerned by this issue to get
active.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Doug.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On Fri, Jun 17, 2022, at 12:07 AM, Chris Irwin via kwlug-disc
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style="">
<div>On Thu, Jun 16, 2022, at 17:47, Doug Moen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="qt-qt" style="">
<div>Like for example, we just bought a new washing machine
and dryer. The top selling brand transmits everything you do
to the manufacturer over the internet. For now, this is opt
in, but internet surveillance already cannot be turned off
for a growing number of consumer machines and appliances. We
bought a less popular brand with no surveillance, because
that's something that's still available.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You may find this interesting/disconcerting:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://www.mazda.ca/en/mazda-connected-vehicle/overview/"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.mazda.ca/en/mazda-connected-vehicle/overview/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Neat, Mazda has an app. It does a bunch of neat things like
letting you start, pre heat/cool your car, unlock doors, get
reminders for service and recalls. Neat. Oh, it can tell you
where you parked your car, too.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Wait, how does this work? Lets check the privacy policy,
because it's not documented anywhere else...<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://www.mazda.ca/en/privacy-policy/cv-privacy/"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.mazda.ca/en/privacy-policy/cv-privacy/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span style=""><u><b>Vehicle Data: </b></u></span>When
you purchase or lease a Connected Vehicle, the telematics
system is active by default and transmits vehicle data,
including driving behavior data (including the acceleration
and speed of your Connected Vehicle, travel direction, and
use of steering and braking functions) and vehicle health
data (which includes Vehicle Identification Number (VIN);
odometer, fuel level, and oil life readings; Diagnostic
Trouble Codes (DTCs); and data from the Connected Vehicle’s
OBD system, including engine coolant temperature, fuel
injection volume, engine Rotation Per Minute (RPM), and the
status of doors, hood, trunk, and hazard lights). If your
Connected Vehicle has a Connected Services plan, we also
collect geo-location coordinates of your Connected Vehicle’s
latitude and longitude.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Oh, and don't forget you've also installed an app on your
phone!<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p><span style=""><u><b>MyMazda Data:</b></u></span> If you
use the MyMazda app, we collect the location of your device,
device type, device operating system, Internet Protocol (IP)
address, unique identifier, type of browser, Internet
service provider, phone number, and information about your
use of MyMazda, including screen time, scrolling, specific
actions and taps, reactions to alerts, the progress,
completion and/or abandonment of in-application purchases,
and crash reports.<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And I'm not picking on Mazda in particular. I'm only aware
of it because I own a Mazda and it came up in a discussion
forum. Almost every car in the last few years has this kind of
connectivity now. People expect it. You can probably blame
Tesla.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id="qt-sig91988184">
<div class="qt-signature">-- <br>
</div>
<div class="qt-signature"><b>Chris Irwin</b><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-signature"><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-signature"><span class="qt-font" style=""><span
class="font" style="font-family:menlo, consolas,
monospace, sans-serif;">email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chris@chrisirwin.ca">chris@chrisirwin.ca</a></span></span><br>
</div>
<div class="qt-signature"><span class="qt-font" style=""><span
class="font" style="font-family:menlo, consolas,
monospace, sans-serif;"> web: <a
href="https://chrisirwin.ca" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://chrisirwin.ca</a></span></span><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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CEO | 3NSoft Inc.</div>
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