<div dir="ltr"><div>I spoke too soon.. apparently Trump has a solution: he told everybody in NC to vote twice!</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-north-carolina-voting-1.5710497?cmp=rss">https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-north-carolina-voting-1.5710497?cmp=rss</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 19:23, CrankyOldBugger <<a href="mailto:crankyoldbugger@gmail.com">crankyoldbugger@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Have we flogged this horse enough, yet?</div><div><br></div><div>Ars Technical has an interesting article on why online voting is bad: <a href="https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/09/why-experts-are-overwhelmingly-skeptical-of-online-voting/" target="_blank">https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/09/why-experts-are-overwhelmingly-skeptical-of-online-voting/</a></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 at 19:57, Mikalai Birukou via kwlug-disc <<a href="mailto:kwlug-disc@kwlug.org" target="_blank">kwlug-disc@kwlug.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><br>
</p>
<div>On 2020-08-25 6:37 p.m., Khalid
Baheyeldin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 3:18 PM Mikalai Birukou
via kwlug-disc <<a href="mailto:kwlug-disc@kwlug.org" target="_blank">kwlug-disc@kwlug.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">If paper votes were
always counted correctly in Belarus in the last 4 to <br>
8 elections, there would be no problem. But they weren't.
Mere presence <br>
of Austrian paper vote system doesn't guarantee the happy
ending. Hence, <br>
problem exist, may be not in Canada (note, in Belarus every
vote has <br>
equal weight, unlike here, leaving only miscounting as a
mischief tool).<br>
<br>
Actual change that now takes place in that country was
helped by some <br>
tech solutions coupled with mass action. Tech is a tool.
Tech is never a <br>
solution to a problem that not all people abide by rules.
But tech de <br>
facto helped the defending side. Let me rephrase it, can we
have high <br>
tech pitchforks? :)<br clear="all">
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The problem here is that the system is rigged. It has the
appearance that it is</div>
<div>fair and open, while it is neither. The reason is a
dictator who refuses to cede</div>
<div>power and manipulates the voting process to get his way. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The problem here is not voting, it is the power grip, which
will corrupt any</div>
<div>voting system (paper or computerized) to get the same
result. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As an example, Egypt before the 2011 uprising had similar
problems: voting</div>
<div>was rigged at many levels, starting with requiring special
government issued</div>
<div>IDs to be eligible to vote, to excluding candidates who are
not aligned with <br>
</div>
<div>the government but have a chance to win (imprisonment the
month before</div>
<div>the election, and released after it is over), to
centralized ballot counting (and</div>
<div>boxes were discarded and swapped en route), to a rigged
parliament that put</div>
<div>obstacles for someone to run for president (must get a
majority of votes in</div>
<div>parliament or other impossible conditions).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Most of that changed over a few weeks, when people rose to
depose Mubarak.</div>
<div>No special voting ID was needed. The regular ID that
everyone has was valid.</div>
<div>Everyone was registered to vote by default. No
insurmountable conditions for</div>
<div>someone to run for president. Distributed ballot counting
(in sito, with all <br>
</div>
<div>representatives present), and so on.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That worked for the 2012 elections, which were mostly fair
and open. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But quickly the military got their act together and with
intimidation and exclusion</div>
<div>managed to leave most of these measures in place, but again
exclude candidates</div>
<div>that have a chance to win.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What will happen down the line? Perhaps another uprising,
in due time. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But the point here is that: don't expect dictators to
follow the rules if they</div>
<div>are the ones making them, and they ones gaming them.
Belarus has momentum</div>
<div>in the streets that may change that. I hope it does, and
that it is long lasting, <br>
</div>
<div>unlike Egypt. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Let's note that everyone now is trying to have elections, even
faked ones. Why dictators do this? They want some feel of
legitimacy, and for that some rules from democratic places are
used.</p>
<p>If democratic places adopt even stronger approaches, then it will
ripple out. Unfortunately, places like Estonia manage to adopt
worse solutions.<br>
</p>
<br>
</div>
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</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>