<div dir="ltr">Thanks for the clarity on what you meant. Yes, I think a hybrid would be nice. I've always hoped for something that would make IRC more efficient for my mobile device but alas I never find anything.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 11:49 AM <a href="mailto:locklin.jason@gmail.com">locklin.jason@gmail.com</a> <<a href="mailto:locklin.jason@gmail.com">locklin.jason@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 20:39:56 +0000<br class="gmail_msg">
Chamunks <<a href="mailto:chamunks@gmail.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">chamunks@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
> Still sounds really nice but doesn't address the main issue that no one<br class="gmail_msg">
> will want to install a battery drain. Which is the reason they went with a<br class="gmail_msg">
> push architecture.<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
Actually, both Chatsecure and Matrix/Riot run okay without push<br class="gmail_msg">
infrastructure. If you install Riot from F-droid, it polls on pre-defined<br class="gmail_msg">
intervals, while the Google play version uses push. The chatsecure guys<br class="gmail_msg">
have also pioneered a lot of optimizations for making polling much easier on<br class="gmail_msg">
batteries. Obviously, push systems still work better.<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
In the end, that’s why I mention that p2p is a special case of federation.<br class="gmail_msg">
There are already people who run a XMPP or Matrix server for exactly one<br class="gmail_msg">
account on the local machine (and so are effectively operating p2p),<br class="gmail_msg">
while (most) others rely on shared servers.<br class="gmail_msg">
Federation allows p2p where the hardware is adequate, while not forcing<br class="gmail_msg">
it on those with fluid network connections and weak batteries. Hopefully,<br class="gmail_msg">
those problems will be "solved" at some point in the future, and any<br class="gmail_msg">
good federated system will be future-proofed for going fully p2p.<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
> On Sat, Nov 26, 2016 at 6:20 PM Jason Locklin <<a href="mailto:locklin.jason@gmail.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">locklin.jason@gmail.com</a>><br class="gmail_msg">
> wrote:<br class="gmail_msg">
><br class="gmail_msg">
> > The nice thing about a federated system is that p2p is just a special<br class="gmail_msg">
> > case, and one can become the other when the hardware makes it realistic.<br class="gmail_msg">
> > The chatsecure guys were talking about this a while back where they<br class="gmail_msg">
> > suggested that every device could be its own xmpp server, perhaps using tor<br class="gmail_msg">
> > for persistent routing and privacy.<br class="gmail_msg">
> ><br class="gmail_msg">
> > On November 26, 2016 3:54:07 PM EST, Chamunks <<a href="mailto:chamunks@gmail.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">chamunks@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >A fully p2p system is the best system, but it would have to be based on<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >something like DHTs so that offline messaging could work;<br class="gmail_msg">
> > ><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >This would be ideal except on mobile battery is at a premium so good<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >luck<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >telling people they need to contribute cycles to a dht<br class="gmail_msg">
> > ><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >On Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 1:24 PM Nick Guenther <<a href="mailto:nguenthe@uwaterloo.ca" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">nguenthe@uwaterloo.ca</a>><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >wrote:<br class="gmail_msg">
> > ><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> Le 26 novembre 2016 12:25:40 HNE, "B. S." <<a href="mailto:bs27975@gmail.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">bs27975@gmail.com</a>> a écrit<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >:<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> >> it would be ideal that we try and find a system that they can't<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >have<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> >> one centralized location to squat in and collect our metadata.<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> ><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> >Does that not exist already in Tor?<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> ><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> Only if all the servers you use are .onion hidden services. If you go<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >from<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> exit nodes to <a href="http://talk.google.com" rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">talk.google.com</a> you made as little progress as using<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >Tor to<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> access Facebook.<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> A fully p2p system is the best system, but it would have to be based<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >on<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> something like DHTs so that offline messaging could work; this was<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >tox's<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> idea, but I do not trust their code quality one bit; maybe they've<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >gotten<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> better in the years since their founding.<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> _______________________________________________<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> kwlug-disc mailing list<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> <a href="mailto:kwlug-disc@kwlug.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">kwlug-disc@kwlug.org</a><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >> <a href="http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org" rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org</a><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >><br class="gmail_msg">
> > ><br class="gmail_msg">
> > ><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------<br class="gmail_msg">
> > ><br class="gmail_msg">
> > >_______________________________________________<br class="gmail_msg">
> > >kwlug-disc mailing list<br class="gmail_msg">
> > ><a href="mailto:kwlug-disc@kwlug.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">kwlug-disc@kwlug.org</a><br class="gmail_msg">
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> ><br class="gmail_msg">
> > --<br class="gmail_msg">
> > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.<br class="gmail_msg">
> ><br class="gmail_msg">
> ><br class="gmail_msg">
> > _______________________________________________<br class="gmail_msg">
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> > <a href="http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org" rel="noreferrer" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org</a><br class="gmail_msg">
> ><br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
<br class="gmail_msg">
--<br class="gmail_msg">
<a href="mailto:locklin.jason@gmail.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">locklin.jason@gmail.com</a> <<a href="mailto:locklin.jason@gmail.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">locklin.jason@gmail.com</a>><br class="gmail_msg">
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</blockquote></div>