<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 3:28 AM, Chris Irwin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chris@chrisirwin.ca" target="_blank">chris@chrisirwin.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">On Ubuntu so far, upstart is the init system. It generally
stays out of the way. Only one time I needed to deal with it,
because MySQL would not start, and had to find out that it
logged to a different destination (/var/log/upstart). Other
than that, it is transparent.<br>
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Upstart had some serious shortcomings as an init system.<br>
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It's hard to criticize systemd for not being planned (original
article said "FLOS" seemed ad-hoc) and yet consider upstart as an
alternative. It didn't have support for overrides for several
in-the-wild releases, which means you couldn't disable an init
script (or change when it runs) without actually modifying the
script -- and reconciling the changes during upgrades.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Why do you say an init script can't be disabled?<br><br></div><div>On Ubuntu, there is usually an /etc/default/daemon_name file that has an ENABLED= which the init script checks.<br>
<br></div><div>If that does not do it, then you can use the usual update-rc.d to disable a service.<br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div>Systemd is not like that. Wikipedia says that systemd
provides replacements for:<br>
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<div>- SysV Init<br>
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This is where the bulk of my experience with systemd lays so far.
I've written several unit files for both personal and work use. Took
me less than an hour to to write my first one, using nothing but man
pages. It's plain text, and about a dozen lines, commented. There's
no boiler-plate, no bash case statements, no environment
contamination. It compartmentalizes, and is capable of killing
mis-behaving services, even their forked, orphaned children.<br>
<br>
It's the sanest method of configuring startup. Instead of
re-inventing a start/stop bash script for every service, you write a
simple config file. Upstart was configured similarly, but handled
things far too simplistically -- It didn't clean the environment, it
allowed services to be started as children of your shell (which
caused significant issues when testing upstart at work).<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Good to know. <br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">- syslog<br>
<br>
This is the weakest point with me, simply due to my lack of exposure
to it. It has a more detail and some extra metadata associated with
each logged line. Some program logs are simply their STDOUT, so you
might not even have timestamps. With systemd's journal, you have
that information if you want it.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Any program outputing to the syslog facility (or its various revisions, such as syslog-ng, rsyslog, ...etc.) will have timestamps automatically added by syslog when it receives the message. <br>
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<div>What I can't get is why Debian, the most community run of
them all, and one of the oldest, has decided to go with
something like systemd. <br>
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I don't understand why community and systemd must be opposed?</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This was in response to a comment about corporate influence and such, which is absent in Debian's case. <br clear="all">
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