On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 10:21 PM, unsolicited <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:unsolicited@swiz.ca">unsolicited@swiz.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Khalid Baheyeldin wrote, On 12/19/2009 8:52 PM:<div class="im"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 5:03 PM, unsolicited <<a href="mailto:unsolicited@swiz.ca" target="_blank">unsolicited@swiz.ca</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:unsolicited@swiz.ca" target="_blank">unsolicited@swiz.ca</a>>> wrote:<br>
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Khalid Baheyeldin wrote, On 12/19/2009 9:32 AM:<br>
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Well said Raul. I agree.<br>
<br>
Let us not change because we are looking for a location. Let us<br>
change because of other more organic reasons (new audience mix,<br>
new meeting topics, ....etc.)<br>
<br>
<br>
I don't understand. This is all one and the same, wrapped up in each<br>
other. Change has occurred - the Working Centre became too noisy.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
No, it does not follow ...<br>
</blockquote>
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Yes, it absolutely does follow.<br>
<br>
The loss of the Working Centre leads to a need for a new location.<br>
<br>
That location must be free - kwlug cannot sustain a per meeting rental fee.<br>
<br>
Therefore someone must sponsor us the space.<br>
<br>
Their first question: Who are you?<br></blockquote><div><br>Up to here, everything is fine.<br><br>The logic flaw, as I see it, is jumping to who you ARE, to who do you WANT to be?<br>Or how can you CHANGE.<br><br>One is the present state of the group (good or bad is another matter), and the other<br>
is whether we should change in order to get to meet elsewhere.<br><br>The other point is that we as a diverse group do not agree on whether we should change, let alone how to change, and to what.<br><br>So, this is why this who "we are changing" is "scope creep" at its best ...<br>
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Their second question: Why do I care, what can you do for me? (Since we're not giving them money, a self-sufficient and self-evident answer in every other case.)<br></blockquote><div><br>We are what we are: a group that meets to discuss free/open source topics. We have volunteers proposing topics, and we have some discussions about them.<br>
<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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Or, we have this space which our members pay for, or is otherwise funded somehow for some particular purpose. The space is not currently being used, and open for our members to use. Will our members be welcome and want to participate in this use of their space?<br>
<br>
Somehow, for some reason, I don't think me standing up in front of them and saying, "Yes, of course!", will be taken as sufficient evidence, or sufficiently credible, in and of itself.<br>
<br>
So ... how do we show them ... "Yes, of course!"<br>
<br>
[The above will be true for ANY organization able to sponsor us space for free. Consider Raul/Manulife - no go because not enough Manulife'rs would attend.]<div class="im"><br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
"We need a new place to meet doing what we were doing all along" is different<br>
from "who are we? why are we here? we should change?" ...etc.<br>
<br>
Two different topics that should not overlap. We are confusing ourselves if<br>
we are mixing them up like this.<br>
</blockquote>
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The two topics don't overlap, they are one in the same. To get a place to do what we've been doing all along means explaining what we've been doing all along. In order to get a sponsor to buy in to sponsoring us, they must know what they're buying in to.<br>
<br>
"Who are you?" "What do you do?"<br>
<br>
<br>
No sponsor is going to sponsor us for free if the people paying for the space can't participate.<br>
<br>
"Can we participate?" Yes. "Prove it." "Show us."<br>
<br>
[It would be different if some committee member had been attending kwlug meetings for some time. They will have lived kwlug. Since that isn't the case, how do we "Show them."?]<br>
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<br>
Things are one in the same.<br>
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All I have suggested in various ways is 'make the inclusiveness visible.' That's the only change we're talking about.<br>
<br>
<br>
Actually, that's not true, there is one other change - What are the consequences of having this space?<br>
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Well ... one of the consequences is having additional rooms available, such that perhaps a 'workshop' could simultaneously split off from the presentation, if people desired. It would require no additional effort on our part, and would likely be self-provisioning. i.e. If a group of 8 people went into another room, a few with laptops perhaps, they'll end up talking about whatever they end up talking about. Perhaps Brent will help someone to get jack going. Perhaps Kahlid will help someone tweak their apache / mysql / drupal install. Perhaps Lori will help someone get the firmware into OpenWRT that first time. Perhaps all 3 will happen simultaneously. Perhaps over a (root) beer.<br>
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Not so much 'change', I think, as 'identification'?<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Khalid M. Baheyeldin<br><a href="http://2bits.com">2bits.com</a>, Inc.<br><a href="http://2bits.com">http://2bits.com</a><br>Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.<br>
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. -- Edsger W.Dijkstra<br>Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. -- Leonardo da Vinci<br>