[kwlug-disc] Epistemic humility and ZFS

[Mikalai Birukou]

> There is also Ubuntu MicroCloud now, a new kid in town.

There is this discussion: https://discuss.linuxcontainers.org/t/incus-vs-proxmox-vs-micro-cloud-feature-comparisons/23121/2

Some interesting notes/quotes/phrases:
- arm64, no proxmox on it, yet; incus on Raspberry Pi cluster is bueno
- Proxmox requires a dedicated host

I'll say that I was forced into snaped ZFS to have newer LXD to run vitual machines with microk8s. As was noted microk8s is a distribution of k8s: can package kubes yourself, but easier is ... easier. I wonder if IncusOS, with possibly future things around rollouts in racks, will give Micro(Stuff) run for the money. Competition is good.

>>> What is the difference between an Incus and a Proxmox?
>>
>> Incus is LXC evolved, done right, not snap-ed (i.e. Canonical's snap).
>>
>> They say Proxmox can use LXC to run systems not as virtual machines.
>> In time it'll be Incus, like TOFU with Terraform.
>>
>> From a user perspective, Proxmox has nice GUI and clicky interfaces.
>> In LXC, hence Incus, I ever used five-ish commands. And similar will be
>> with Incus. Add two more around migrating in upgrades. Proxmox has
>> some bunches of ready scripts to bring up things like CEPH instances.
>> Proxmox can be viewed as this higher level, with its own decisions on
>> that higher level, internally using five commands of lower level, container
>> and vm handler, if you allow this rhetorical stretch.
>>
>> Just found this https://tadeubento.com/2024/replace-proxmox-with-incus-lxd/
>> pointing that with addition GUI (in web) (finally), one may start to use
>> not only in terminal.
>>
>> Additionally, there is IncusOS
>> https://stgraber.org/2025/11/07/introducing-incusos/
>> which may be compared to Proxmox OS (?), and a whole OS setup
>> considerations.
>>
>>>>> We need a "+1" button for some of the emails on this list.
>>>> Paul, can count me in with Incus talk, for whenever next year.
>>>>
>>>> https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/docs/main/
>>>>
>>>> It'll be on admin-user level of Incus, similar to what I did with LXC and
>>>> Docker. Recent experience, bruises in upgrade-in-recovery ... not
>>>> recommended scheduling, has enough simple things to share.
>>>>
>>>>>> From recent experience:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you trying to replace/attach/mess with disks, and you insist, and you
>>>>>> use -f for it, and ZFS still doesn't let you, ... , then just step away
>>>>>> from the keyboard. Have some epistemic humility towards yourself.
>>>>>> Blindly taking out fdisk knife may increase one's problems hundred-fold.
>>>>>> Just step away, have coffee, reload the most dynamic part of the system
>>>>>> -- yourself.
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