[kwlug-disc] From 36-th C3, about smaller app stacks

[Mikalai Birukou]

On 2019-12-31 11:17 a.m., Erik Schnetter wrote:
> I have flashes from when Java and the JVM were introduced. Same ideas:
> Much simpler system (write everything in one language), no processes,
> no pre-emptive multitasking, automatic memory management etc.)
>
> And when the JVM was introduced in 1994, I had flashes from when
> Nikolaus Wirth introduced Oberon
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)>.

I agree, when you see turtles' stack, immediate comes a thought about 
stack reduction -- one is enough to sit on.

> The ideas presented in this talk are certainly valid, otherwise they
> wouldn't be re-invented every decade. The questions is: What is
> different this time that might give in main-stream traction?

It seems to me that historically we moved from (1) one program in a 
machine, to (2) many programs in a machine, to (3) many users in a 
machine, to (4) whose interest this app serves, to (5) put your complete 
systems back into server room, ... here some virtual environment for 
your stuff. And then we have (6) serverless, asking us to forget all 
about low level details. <rant> The important line in AW$ bill is number 
of requests and routing to and between serverless routines. </rant>

>   Maybe the
> overall ecosystem complexity has grown so much in the mean time that a
> simpler approach could save a significant amount of overhead in
> computing, i.e. energy, i.e. it would be more cost-effective?

Totally agree with you. I am able to run a ton of stuff on just a couple 
of machines. Moving service processes between machines allows for 
reliability. Much like human body constantly refreshes cells, we want to 
swap failed boxes while keeping services up. And the more I can 
gainfully employ existing boxes, the better economically.

This time client side may also be included. We have a safe(ish) 
environment for running UI code from distant sites, like a bank. It's 
been said that Figma writes code in C++, compiling it to WASM, for 
designers to have fun in a browser.

Android ecosystem can be thought as browser with all apps written in a 
style that separates code(templates) and data parts, but with one place 
to get it all, called marketpla$e. So, this time development can also 
step into client side from WASM to WASI, and with wide open place for 
vendors.


Happy New Year.