[kwlug-disc] Sault Ste Marie Linux?

Thu Aug 16 11:56:29 EDT 2018

Some years ago, I tried installing Mate on Ubuntu from some PPA, but the
result was not entirely satisfactory. No instability, but the help system
wasn't ported, and there were other usability issues. I'm going to try Mate
again now that I know there is a package for it in the Ubuntu Universe
repository.

On Ubuntu, the Mate and xfce desktop environments are part of the Universe
repository. The Universe repository is enabled by default on new Ubuntu
installs. This repository isn't officially supported by Canonical, the way
that Main and Restricted are, but I usually don't have a problem with
software from Universe. Note that most of the software available by default
in Ubuntu, including most of the software pulled from Debian, is in
Universe.

I don't think that installing software packages from the Universe
repository can be expected to cause instability, otherwise they wouldn't
enable this repo by default. I've been running Ubuntu with multiple DEs
installed for at least 10 years, haven't seen it to be a problem.

I guess that with a DE-centric distro like Mint, you are getting full
support from the distro maintainers for the DE. However, note that there
are official Ubuntu variant distros for different desktop environments like
KDE, Mate and XFCE. I assume these distros are just varying the default set
of packages used by the base install, so if I install the 'kubuntu-desktop'
package, I'm getting the same KDE with the same level of support as if I
installed the Kubuntu distro?

On 16 August 2018 at 10:51, Ron Singh <ronsingh149 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Huh! I had no idea that ZFS was supported in native Ubuntu, I thought they
> stopped at XFS. Good to know.
>
> Doug, any reservations about having multiple DTs on one Linux install? I
> am fearful of dependencies stepping on each other and rendering an unstable
> system.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Singh
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 9:54 AM, doug moen <doug at moens.org> wrote:
>
>> The reason I stick with Ubuntu is that it has the largest software
>> ecosystem.
>> * For me, the ZFS support is a requirement. That's not available in any
>> other distro.
>> * For users of my open source project, the open source AMD GPU driver is
>> too buggy, and the closed source driver, which works, is only supported on
>> Ubuntu LTS, Red Hat and SUSE. (You can avoid this problem by getting an
>> Nvidia GPU.)
>> * This doesn't affect me right now, but if you want to run commercial
>> proprietary software on Linux, you have the most choices if you stick with
>> the big 3, which are: Ubuntu LTS, Red Hat and SUSE.
>>
>> I agree that you should choose the desktop environment that is right for
>> you. However, I really hate the idea that I should install a different
>> distro if I want to try out a different DE. Ideally, the choice of DE
>> should be just be another package that you install.
>>
>> In Ubuntu 18.04, I can use
>>   $ apt-get install mate-desktop-environment
>> to install Mate, or
>>   $ apt-get install xfce4
>> Then I can have multiple desktop environments available, and choose one
>> when I log in.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15 August 2018 at 17:25, Ron Singh <ronsingh149 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "I really appreciate their choice to adopt a lot of the basic window
>>> management keyboard shortcuts/etc.This really takes away a lot of the
>>> cognitive 'switching desktops' friction out for me... "
>>>
>>> Exactly! I really appreciated Mint's efforts to give great control to
>>> the user on the types of updates to apply and their key bindings. After
>>> almost 2 years of using GNU/Linux primarily with Xfce and Cinnamon DTs, I
>>> have the following perspective --
>>> - Xfce ---> Intuitive efficiency, the desktop does *not* get in the way,
>>> the desktop to go fast and play hard, viscerally lean
>>> - Mate --> Intuitive, albeit somewhat plodding as one maneuvers to the
>>> command to execute
>>> - Cinnamon --> Pure visual nom-noms that is still intuitive, easy to
>>> negotiate, superb contextual video/audio switching, all at a reasonable hit
>>> on RAM and CPU utilization
>>> - Gnome3 --> WTF??? I have to fight though my rage as I try to do some
>>> sort of a "system-level" query/command without invoking th terminal
>>> - KDE(Plasma5) - Wow...Just way too busy for me with significant
>>> CPU/Memory utilization which hurts a laptop battery life something fierce.
>>>
>>> I went exclusively laptop back in 2006, so I have no idea how these DTs
>>> would play on juicier desktop/tower systems.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ron Singh
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:31 PM, Stuart Seeley <stuart at lowlevel.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've suffered through a lot of broken distributions over the past 20
>>>> odd years...  and I have to say I'm really impressed with Mint 18.2.
>>>> For me, it truly is the first time I completed the installation and
>>>> almost nothing was broken...
>>>>
>>>> Side note:As someone who has to work with Windows everyday, I really
>>>> appreciate their choice to adopt a lot of the basic window management
>>>> keyboard shortcuts/etc.
>>>> This really takes away a lot of the cognitive 'switching desktops'
>>>> friction out for me...
>>>>
>>>> Stuart
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 10:18 AM, Ron Singh <ronsingh149 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Agreed -- back in November 2016 when I decided to try this Linux thing
>>>>> my only visibility into Linux was a Live Ubuntu 10.04 cd that I booted,
>>>>> stared uncomprehendingly at for a few minutes and went back to my Windows
>>>>> XP. That was 8 years ago.  Flash forward to late 2016 where I tossed distro
>>>>> after distro, at least 40 onto 3 low-cost laptops to see which one(s)
>>>>> fitted my sensibilities. It was a HUGE learning opportunity for me, not
>>>>> just from a for and fit standpoint, but something of the innards of the
>>>>> Linux communities online.
>>>>>
>>>>> I settled on Mint 18.2 where *nothing* is broken and OpenSUSE 42.3.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure if it's me and my very limited knowledge, but I have a number
>>>>> of frustrations with anything based off Ubuntu 18.04, seems like the early
>>>>> point releases of Debian 9-based distros and distros built on Ubuntu
>>>>> 16.04.1/.2/.3 have fared well for me. Fedora made me cry,  too many
>>>>> barriers to entry for me,
>>>>>
>>>>> So, as a 22-monto noob, I would highly recommended Mint 18.2
>>>>> preferably with Xfce. Cinnamon is quite appealing too and would be an
>>>>> excellent desktop if he has a laptop/desktop from a recent vintage.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron Singh
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 10:53 PM, William Park via kwlug-disc <
>>>>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the best way to start learning Ubuntu (and Linux) is by using
>>>>>> it.  Pick a task he would do in Windows, and try doing that in Linux.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 10:01:32PM -0400, Daniel Allen wrote:
>>>>>> > Hi folks. I have a friend who is moving to Sault Ste Marie (to
>>>>>> start at
>>>>>> > Algoma) in a few weeks. He's also just now deciding he'd like to
>>>>>> switch
>>>>>> > from Windows to Ubuntu. There doesn't seem to be any LUG in the
>>>>>> Sault. But
>>>>>> > does anybody happen to know any LUG-type people up there?
>>>>>> > I'm not sure what to advise him about starting with Ubuntu- he
>>>>>> might be
>>>>>> > able to get himself up and running ubuntu himself, but it'd be
>>>>>> easier with
>>>>>> > some community...
>>>>>> > Thanks for any contacts I can pass along.
>>>>>> > -Daniel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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