[kwlug-disc] suggestions for promoting linux for whitehorse makerspace

[Chamunks]

Don't forget orchestration for sanity purposes. Saltstack is very fun and
extremely simple to get set up with their bootstrap scripts. Go from zero
to salt in minutes.

I would offer to do a presentation for this but my competence with it can
be limited.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015, 4:12 AM Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> wrote:

>
> I do not have a complete solution for you, but here are a few
> thoughts.
>
> Firstly, you should understand that you are going into a potentially
> hostile environment by advocating some flavour of Linux to people who
> use Mac and Windows. This has a few implications:
>
> - There are effectively no replacements for the software you are
>   listing. You might be able to make some software work with WINE
>   (although see below) and there may be other software with similar
>   functionality, but every quirk will be grumbled about unless your
>   userbase sees Linux as a grand adventure. Expect a lot of threats
>   that "if this doesn't work then I am going back to Windows"
>
> - By advocating for Linux you are effectively volunteering to become
>   the systems administrator. Over time you might be able to get other
>   people sufficiently interested in helping you out, but in addition
>   to helping research and implement this solution, you are also going
>   to have to take care of it.
>
> Having said this I endorse your efforts to get free software into this
> makerspace. I think that there is a lot of software available for
> maker-ing that is available on Linux-type platforms, but little of it
> will be a direct replacement for what is on Windows.
>
> You will have to spend a lot of time figuring out whether you can
> find software that will work with the 3D printers, CNC routers and
> other toys. If there are not then you will need at least a few Windows
> machines on site. (It sounds as if you are on this already.)
>
> Your comment about Deepfreeze inspires a rant. We use a competitor
> called Drive Vaccine in our Windows labs, and we (okay, I) am very
> unhappy with it. The big issue with these products is that you need to
> allow changes to the Windows machines to do updates, but not to do
> anything else. I would hope that Deepfreeze is better than our product
> in this respect, but I have been pretty unhappy with our experience.
>
> In contrast, using guest accounts in Ubuntu has worked really well.
> The machines stay clean, and if you do the initial setup (which is not
> trivial -- there are often custom modifications that have to go into
> /etc/skel, and getting printers to show up automatically can be a
> pain) and then allow unattended-upgrades then the systems do not
> require a lot of additional maintenance (in our experience). So I
> think an Ubuntu environment might give you a clear win there. You can
> also have an administration account that has sudo access, but which
> regular members of the makerspace can't log into.
>
> WINE can work for some programs, but in my experience it often is a
> big pain. Trying to get Windows programs working in Linux overall can
> be a big pain. One big issue is that we have not figured out how to
> get WINE working system-wide (as opposed to installs on individual
> user accounts) which makes /etc/skel really big, and in turn makes
> logins painfully slow.
>
> Usually if I want to have access to Windows machines from Linux
> clients, I just set up an actual Windows machine (physical or virtual)
> and then use remmina to RDP into those Windows machines. This is not a
> perfect solution, but it can be "good enough" depending on the tasks
> you need. Screen sharing with VNC might be another option.
>
> If you are administrating computers where each user gets a unique name
> and password (which I do not think is the case for you now) then
> managing those accounts centrally can be a pain. You might consider a
> Samba 4 solution, or even a distro like Zentyal which makes setting up
> an Active Directory solution easier. The nice thing about this is that
> then your Windows clients can join the "domain" and have similar
> access and permissions as your Linux ones.
>
> I second the recommendation to raise this thread on the Kwartzlab
> discussion list.
>
> I don't know whether any of this blather was helpful, but I hope it
> was not too disheartening.
>
> - Paul
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 07, 2015 at 11:46:04AM -0700, Jotham Apaloo wrote:
> >
> > I moved up north a couple months ago. there's not many tech things going
> on
> > here, but there are a couple of organizations around. One is the local
> > makerspace, yukonstruct. They have a lot of competency in the area of
> > mechanical devices, and there are a couple computing people but they are
> > MAC/WIndows users with little time on their hands for administration.
> >
> > They need to set up several computers this month. Their current system
> > consists of 7 workstations in a main computer lab, and 3 or 4 other
> > workstations connected to 3d printing machine, CNC router, laser cutter.
> I
> > don't know the exact models right now. Some of the computers are refurbs
> > for which they get windows licenses for $10, but a few new ones require
> > paying for a full windows license. They will also have to pay for deep
> > freeze licenses.
> >
> > I am doing (i.e. emailing you lot) some research to see about putting
> linux
> > on all/some of their computers. I think it would be simpler to maintain,
> > less prone to malware, less expensive, and a better fit with the mission
> > and values of the makerspace. There is already some resistance to
> > introducing new things (which is really unfortunate for a makerspace),
> but
> > if I can give some specs and pricing for a nice setup of the machines and
> > network, they may be willing to adopt Linux.
> >
> > I'm looking for a distro suggestion and package suggestions for:
> >
> >    - *nonpersistent user sessions/data (comparable to deep freeze)*
> >       - maybe since permissions and resource is easy to limit on linux,
> >       users could have persistent data
> >       - *software equivalents for *
> >       - corel draw suite (inkscape?)
> >       - sketchup,
> >       - aspire,
> >       - autodesk suite, (blender?, +?)
> >       - preform (looks like no alternative)
> >    - *best way to incorporate a windows station, if necessary*
> >       - WINE?
> >       - virtual machines?
> >       - a windows server on the network and wine/vm on all other machines
> >       as clients?
> >    - *any other related suggestions*
> >
> > it would be a bonus if each of the general workstations could send jobs
> to
> > the machines connected to manufacturing devices. This could happen on a
> > longer time frame but open to thoughts now.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jotham
> > --
> > Jotham Apaloo
> > jothamapaloo at gmail.com
>
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>
>
> --
> "How to Win Proportional Representation" talk: Oct 28, 7pm, St John's
> Kitchen. All welcome. (Contact me for more info.)
>
>
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