[kwlug-disc] The Ubuntu model

[B. S.]

----- Original Message -----

> From: Chris Frey <cdfrey at foursquare.net>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 4:31 PM
> Subject: [kwlug-disc] The Ubuntu model
> 
> In reading about Ubuntu and Snappy, I came across this URL:
> 
>     https://penguindroppings.wordpress.com/2015/01/30/snappy-app-trust-model/
> 
> which said:
> 
>      * we want to replace the distro archive model with an app store model
>        for Snappy systems

Ach! Darnit! So that's why ... the continued invasion of the non-applicable phone model(s) to the desktop. (Never mind servers!)

<rant>
IT'S A DESKTOP ... IT HAS A REAL KEYBOARD ... USE IT ...

WINDOWS 8 ... touch screens on desktops ... RRRRUUUUNNNN!!!
</rant>

> To me, this sounds like more of a marketing decision than a technical one,

> but it has some interesting consequences and advantages from a
> technical perspective too.

>From your writing, I'm not so sure of that.

>From your writing, this sounds like the app makers whining (again - see systemd rants), about getting their latest and greatest (probably ad infused) apps in front of as many people as quickly as possible, and Debian repos refusing to burp versions into the mainstream as quickly as they would like. IF they follow the 'Debian' [GPL(?)] way.

Just a gut feeling, given what you've said.

So it feels more like an attempt to wrest control away from the OS / distro cohesiveness/coordination providers, more than a technical decision. To me, anyways.

I do take your (?) point in a later post, where some impetus is for things like routers - at (the idea of) which I go ... Hmmm. Could have merit. Interesting.

BUT WHY does such have to burp back to my face and desktop and server. It's a desktop, darnit, it ain't broken, stop trying to fix it! I need to produce with it, not keep having to sidetrack to keep up with OS and OS sub-element changes.

- yet, to be honest, it's not like Linux desktops have taken over the world, and phone app distribution mechanisms have had to prove themselves to be user friendly (or fail to have become as ubiquitous as they are). Obviously android is doing something right.


And just to clarify, with your (?) apt-get reference ... remember, apt-get is just an interface (app, actually) to the (d)package system. Doing one thing well, and hasn't prevented many other such interfaces being written. (Usually calling apt-get / dpkg in the process.) aptitude (my fav) comes to mind, let alone interfaces built upon the interface - packagekit coming to mind.

- which makes Khalid's point about systemd - with systemd it is systemd's mechanisms, or nothing (ultimately/evewntually).


>From Khalid's post:
>________________________________
> From: Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com>
>To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 4:48 PM
>Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Ubuntu is replacing .deb with Snappy
> 

>Not that there is no room for improvement, there is always that room for many technologies, including the package managers.

But Debian hasn't exactly made improvement easy, at the OS/distro level. (Apps, yes.) Easy example is the systemd debacle, and what everybody went through, pro or con. Resignations and so on. Or the dpkg / rpm never ending debate.

It's hard to improve a core without putting a lot of kinks in there, thus we have so many versions of similar functionality, and a whole lot of dead wood. Else systemd would have been voted in, and to run simultaneously with the old, not instead of. [Not saying either is better, here, merely that the flexibility, let alone adroitness, turns out not to be as present as one might wish - nature of the beastie.]

>But here is my concern: 
>
>Currently Ubuntu mostly copies the .deb repos from Debian and modify a little (a limited number of packages), then publish them on their own repos. Most applications are just a straight copy of what is on Debian, so there is no customization or porting effort at all.
>
>What I am concerned about is that the effort required to convert from .deb to snappy will become a hindrance to constantly keep up with Debian, and that would result in a reduced number of packages be available to Ubuntu users.


That is inevitable. Given the number of dead or all but no maintenance projects out there, I would be not be surprised if the number of packages dropped down to under a thousand. Someones would have to go and touch each and every package and snappy'ize it ... not too likely.

The very richness of the ecosystem, dead wood and projects and all ... would disappear.

Which is probably, all in all, a bad thing.

Not that I wouldn't mind less deadwood out there (and corresponding documentation that one chews through only to EVENTUALLY discover was superseded by something else - lilo and grub in favour of grub2 coming to mind). Having 'one true' ways more prevalent would be useful - the number of source code control system solutions coming to mind.

Let the non/RPN calculator app debate begin ... again.

Mac vs PC?

[OK, OK, it's Linux (KDE or Gnome?), but I don't think any of us can claim (marketing) success, it not having yet taken over the desktop. After all, we'd lose our elitist status ...]