From chaslinux at gmail.com  Thu Jul  2 08:21:37 2015
From: chaslinux at gmail.com (Charles M)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 08:21:37 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux/Intel embedded stick (was: Router dying?)
In-Reply-To: <CAA=K3WdYvVumLBHWYTu636gJo5tFHrJgfKTJuVLOEPbsL7R2tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKyYXOSDCC83H=OLo2QhFJroD3CeOWDFScZzpikKawQ1z8FeWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGCrr8gjTByrTcfSJV-zgLDxHG+M2oYorBU+2XQ0fUFzVjr9Hw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKyYXOT6vof7jCpH30i9Rfy96Wqq0S8Vc76uM0z1bh06Oy+5pw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7E7CFDED-3BD9-4299-94C2-9CC1D8CB8553@mixdown.ca>
	<CAH++cinkNVtf5vU2-jAB7ccQj35dvXfRJJJg=YqgghPTOYdaow@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150622072624.GA4789@node1.localdomain>
	<CAA=K3WdYvVumLBHWYTu636gJo5tFHrJgfKTJuVLOEPbsL7R2tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANKsL=N3=v-KYeunqSSMrF0gbmZtbYP4G4JQP299ri-jFt-bOQ@mail.gmail.com>

NCIX has several if you search the site, most of it back order. The only
one that's available is at $199:

http://www.ncix.com/detail/intel-compute-stick-atom-z3735f-55-110339.htm



On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Darcy Casselman <dscassel at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 3:26 AM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> Folks, guess what I found at CanadaComputers...
>>
>>     Intel BOXSTCK1A8LFC Compute Stick
>>     - Intel? Atom Quad-Core Processor Z3735F, 1.33GHz
>>     - 2GB RMA
>>     - 32GB storage
>>     - Linux
>>     -
>> http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=7_1203_1157&item_id=083440
>>
>
> "In store only."
>
> "Stock level: 0"
>
> :/
>
> Darcy.
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>


-- 
Charles McColm, Author: Instant XBMC,
Columnist: Full Circle Magazine,
Project Manager: The Working Centre Computer Recycling Project
Web: http://www.theworkingcentre.org/cr/
Blog: http://www.charlesmccolm.com/
Twitter/Identica/Google+: @chaslinux
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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Tue Jul  7 07:10:29 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 07:10:29 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
Message-ID: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>

As I mentioned during the meeting, we are starting to think about
transitioning our website from Drupal 6 to Drupal 7. There are some
changes I would like to see (mostly having to do with simplifying the
website and de-emphasizing things we never use) but I am interested in
hearing from the broader KWLUG community: 

- What is working?
- What is not working?
- What changes do you feel should be made?

This could quickly turn into a bikeshed problem, and also could
quickly turn into a project where we try to add every bit of
functionality that we can just because it might be useful someday. So
I am not promising that the Secret Website Conspiracy will implement
all suggestions, but I will promise that the group will read and
consider them. 

- Paul 

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 08:02:44 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 12:02:44 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOSMr4C6dz50wFgAurmsbhAVDRsN_rw1G_yNH-PXLc9iLw@mail.gmail.com>

Could you videotape some of the coding process for those of us who are
thinking of learning Drupal?

On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 at 07:10 Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> As I mentioned during the meeting, we are starting to think about
> transitioning our website from Drupal 6 to Drupal 7. There are some
> changes I would like to see (mostly having to do with simplifying the
> website and de-emphasizing things we never use) but I am interested in
> hearing from the broader KWLUG community:
>
> - What is working?
> - What is not working?
> - What changes do you feel should be made?
>
> This could quickly turn into a bikeshed problem, and also could
> quickly turn into a project where we try to add every bit of
> functionality that we can just because it might be useful someday. So
> I am not promising that the Secret Website Conspiracy will implement
> all suggestions, but I will promise that the group will read and
> consider them.
>
> - Paul
>
> --
> http://pnijjar.freeshell.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
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From colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 08:13:50 2015
From: colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com (Colin Mills)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 08:13:50 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
Message-ID: <CACzt8WTwR5HEsE6uF-qZM+AvCdQKjdXH+9SJF-Z5ekRPzyAZPQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Everybody,

I apologize I couldn't make it last night I had prior commitments that came
up. If you remember I briefly had started talking about having a Linux
Conference located in and
around the Kitchener area. As such I have taken it upon myself to organize
an event that would be in late September at Conestoga College, the
potential date we are looking at is September 19th. I have backing and some
willing sponsors to talk. It would be a full day event from 9->5. There
will be lunch and coffee provided.  I have three spots available after
lunch to be able to give full hour length talks. We need people to fill
those spots, so if anyone is interested in giving a talk on UNIXness let me
know. There will also be  a chance for lightening talks during lunch.
Attached I have a schedule that shows the basic layout of the day!


Thanks for your time.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin J. Mills (cjm)
FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> Advocate

Software Engineering Technology
Second Year
Conestoga College
Canada

"makepkg, not war"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 09:16:43 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 13:16:43 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Another reason to leave Bell
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOSF1zYpuD0sbgw3hFhn7VJ5MWpr2T4WgBxE5iashuSyhg@mail.gmail.com>

You guys know me well enough by now to know I love a good anti-Bell rant...

Apparently they got rid of the $2.80 Touch Tone fee, which was recently
voted "Canada's Dumbest Charge".  But before you start dreaming of what to
do with your sudden extra cash, we find out that they just buried the $2.80
in the basic phone charge:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bell-removes-touch-tone-fee-from-bills-but-customers-still-on-the-hook-1.3140517?cmp=rss

Did I mention before how happy I was to get rid of Bell altogether??
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From nguenthe at uwaterloo.ca  Tue Jul  7 10:16:34 2015
From: nguenthe at uwaterloo.ca (Nick Guenther)
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 10:16:34 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <CACzt8WTwR5HEsE6uF-qZM+AvCdQKjdXH+9SJF-Z5ekRPzyAZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACzt8WTwR5HEsE6uF-qZM+AvCdQKjdXH+9SJF-Z5ekRPzyAZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6EFBA74C-9E82-44AB-A0F1-2B42AD677D7B@uwaterloo.ca>

Hi Colin,

How about a talk called "The OS is your IDE" covering make, GCC, syslog/how to wrangle printf, git, shebangs and the terminal.  I'm a Waterloo student but I know some people over with you and I know they push IDEs pretty heavily on your, which is soooo not the Unix way.  I would throw in screen/tmux/i3 too, which is actually how I usually work, but I can keep it with Gnome just to point out how accessible this style of working is.

Other things that I would like to see happen:
- running your own telecom server (SMTP, IMAP, XMPP, spam filtering)
- The OS is your DBMS, covering btfrs and/or LVM, especially its RAID and snapshotting features, using symlinks to make indexes, and find and grep.

On July 7, 2015 8:13:50 AM EDT, Colin Mills <colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi Everybody,
>
>I apologize I couldn't make it last night I had prior commitments that
>came
>up. If you remember I briefly had started talking about having a Linux
>Conference located in and
>around the Kitchener area.

-- 
Nick Guenther
4B Joint Stats/CS
University of Waterloo




From bjonkman at sobac.com  Tue Jul  7 16:46:15 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 16:46:15 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <CACzt8WTwR5HEsE6uF-qZM+AvCdQKjdXH+9SJF-Z5ekRPzyAZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACzt8WTwR5HEsE6uF-qZM+AvCdQKjdXH+9SJF-Z5ekRPzyAZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <559C3A97.8040205@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Colin! It will be great to have a Linux Conference in the KW area!

19 September is (probably) the date for Software Freedom Day. I think
it would be great to have a track of presentations and workshops on
Free Software at a Linux Conference if it coincides with SFD. Here's
our SFD page from 2014:
http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2014/Canada/Kitchener/TWC

19 September is also the day for the Medieval Faire, Open Doors, Maker
Expo, and a bunch of other things in KW that really reduced
participation in SFD last year.  Is it possible to hold the Linux
Conference on the 26th? You'll probably get better attendance from the
public.

Finally, I've committed to organizing and presenting at SFD in Toronto
on the 19th, so I have a very selfish interest in seeing the Linux
Conference on another date. But perhaps it is easier to move the
Toronto SFD to the 26th -- let me know...

- --Bob.


Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-669-0388
SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/    http://sn.jonkman.ca/bobjonkman/
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA


On 07/07/15 08:13 AM, Colin Mills wrote:
> Hi Everybody,
> 
> I apologize I couldn't make it last night I had prior commitments 
> that came up. If you remember I briefly had started talking about 
> having a Linux Conference located in and around the Kitchener
> area. As such I have taken it upon myself to organize an event that
> would be in late September at Conestoga College, the potential date
> we are looking at is September 19th. I have backing and some
> willing sponsors to talk. It would be a full day event from 9->5.
> There will be lunch and coffee provided.  I have three spots
> available after lunch to be able to give full hour length talks. We
> need people to fill those spots, so if anyone is interested in
> giving a talk on UNIXness let me know. There will also be  a chance
> for lightening talks during lunch. Attached I have a schedule that 
> shows the basic layout of the day!
> 
> 
> Thanks for your time. 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> 
Colin J. Mills (cjm)
> FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> 
> Advocate
> 
> Software Engineering Technology Second Year Conestoga College 
> Canada
> 
> "makepkg, not war" 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing 
> list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability

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tpoAnA8I+vGj0mqIBNt765tbkkyb3Lfq
=JeSf
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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Tue Jul  7 17:06:38 2015
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 17:06:38 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <559C3A97.8040205@sobac.com>
References: <CACzt8WTwR5HEsE6uF-qZM+AvCdQKjdXH+9SJF-Z5ekRPzyAZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<559C3A97.8040205@sobac.com>
Message-ID: <20150707210638.GA31609@node1.localdomain>

Holding SFD at the Linux Conference is an excellent idea!
-- 
William

On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 04:46:15PM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi Colin! It will be great to have a Linux Conference in the KW area!
> 
> 19 September is (probably) the date for Software Freedom Day. I think
> it would be great to have a track of presentations and workshops on
> Free Software at a Linux Conference if it coincides with SFD. Here's
> our SFD page from 2014:
> http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2014/Canada/Kitchener/TWC
> 
> 19 September is also the day for the Medieval Faire, Open Doors, Maker
> Expo, and a bunch of other things in KW that really reduced
> participation in SFD last year.  Is it possible to hold the Linux
> Conference on the 26th? You'll probably get better attendance from the
> public.
> 
> Finally, I've committed to organizing and presenting at SFD in Toronto
> on the 19th, so I have a very selfish interest in seeing the Linux
> Conference on another date. But perhaps it is easier to move the
> Toronto SFD to the 26th -- let me know...
> 
> - --Bob.
> 
> 
> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-669-0388
> SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
> http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/    http://sn.jonkman.ca/bobjonkman/
> Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
> 
> 
> On 07/07/15 08:13 AM, Colin Mills wrote:
> > Hi Everybody,
> > 
> > I apologize I couldn't make it last night I had prior commitments 
> > that came up. If you remember I briefly had started talking about 
> > having a Linux Conference located in and around the Kitchener
> > area. As such I have taken it upon myself to organize an event that
> > would be in late September at Conestoga College, the potential date
> > we are looking at is September 19th. I have backing and some
> > willing sponsors to talk. It would be a full day event from 9->5.
> > There will be lunch and coffee provided.  I have three spots
> > available after lunch to be able to give full hour length talks. We
> > need people to fill those spots, so if anyone is interested in
> > giving a talk on UNIXness let me know. There will also be  a chance
> > for lightening talks during lunch. Attached I have a schedule that 
> > shows the basic layout of the day!
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks for your time. 
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > 
> Colin J. Mills (cjm)
> > FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> 
> > Advocate
> > 
> > Software Engineering Technology Second Year Conestoga College 
> > Canada
> > 
> > "makepkg, not war" 
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing 
> > list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> > 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAlWcOpYACgkQuRKJsNLM5eptIgCg2hiv49N6sHTGALUwGLtX5jEC
> tpoAnA8I+vGj0mqIBNt765tbkkyb3Lfq
> =JeSf
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From bjonkman at sobac.com  Tue Jul  7 17:25:38 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 17:25:38 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

About the only thing I go to http://kwlug.org for is the info on
upcoming meetings (sometimes, past meetings) and, back in the day, the
FLOSS Fund recipients. While I listen to the podcasts from the
kwlug.org/podcasts page too, I never need to visit that page because
my podcatcher already contains the feed.

I would love to see the meeting schedule done with a native Drupal
calendar module, with, of course, an iCal (.ics) feed.

But taking a step back -- what on kwlug.org requires Drupal? Is the
site perhaps light enough that it could be run on a flat-file content
management system like Dokuwiki, Jekyll, Pelican, or Nikola?

- --Bob.

Dokuwiki: https://www.dokuwiki.org/dokuwiki

Jekyll: http://jekyllrb.com/

Pelican: http://blog.getpelican.com/

Nikola: https://getnikola.com/



On 07/07/15 07:10 AM, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> As I mentioned during the meeting, we are starting to think about 
> transitioning our website from Drupal 6 to Drupal 7. There are
> some changes I would like to see (mostly having to do with
> simplifying the website and de-emphasizing things we never use) but
> I am interested in hearing from the broader KWLUG community:
> 
> - What is working? - What is not working? - What changes do you
> feel should be made?
> 
> This could quickly turn into a bikeshed problem, and also could 
> quickly turn into a project where we try to add every bit of 
> functionality that we can just because it might be useful someday.
> So I am not promising that the Secret Website Conspiracy will
> implement all suggestions, but I will promise that the group will
> read and consider them.
> 
> - Paul
> 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability

iEYEARECAAYFAlWcQ9AACgkQuRKJsNLM5er9QACfXhHW7eCkf26Zw/lm9OlT4biL
vHoAoPN7kKE8VWYCOslIhLgGY1iZMA4R
=Rzep
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  7 19:04:08 2015
From: youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com (Joe Wennechuk)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 19:04:08 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
In-Reply-To: <F2030138-D157-4870-A369-D13F9F9E97EC@mixdown.ca>
References: <CAPSd_uFjUbfszLN36ih4j8fTUF=qXtfUR6TdehiDVSd67Tixhw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<1289368538.733796.1433973574476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>,
	<F2030138-D157-4870-A369-D13F9F9E97EC@mixdown.ca>
Message-ID: <SNT149-W938A02DED3921A55C80786AF920@phx.gbl>

IMHO.....  Being that you're at the planning phase I would suggest the extra money on Power over Ethernet gear. It works very well, and provides much more flexibility of usage. It will save many headaches in the future and will allow you to position the wireless equipment it the optimum position.
I have found Mikrotik gear to be extremely well made, reliable, and mostly for me cheap! And just using an rj-45 with out a power brick, module, and outlet necessity very nice indeed.
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:PoE-Out
I LOVE of the mikrotik monitoring and discovery tools, especially the "Dude"
> From: aklists at mixdown.ca
> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:31:39 -0400
> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
> 
> > On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:59 PM, B. S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > And ... just in case ... don't forget, you'll want plenum rated cable, regardless of what you go with. (Heat/fire resistance.)
> > (Dig into the kwlug archives within the last year or two, search cat6, there will be a group of messages from Cedric within that thread. It was good reading. 
> > http://kwlug.org/pipermail/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org/ )
> 
> It was actually a kwartzlab post. I dug through and found it: http://kwartzlab.ca/pipermail/discuss_kwartzlab.ca/2012-September/001193.html
> 
> I?m looking at building a house and to be honest, I?m far more inclined to put cat5e throughout. Any truly long runs (say over 50m) would be cat6, but my intention would be to install a 3? metal conduit going from the basement electrical room to the attic (and another from the basement to some central location on the main floor), and then requiring ANY non-power cabling to be run through them.  I am not sure if I?d buy some 1/2? plastic conduit to run inside the walls of a given level or not (i.e. from the central conduit to a specific outlet) but I would ask that all non-power wires be left loose in the walls so I could more easily pull new cabling if the need arose.
> 
> Using a metal conduit between floors might even alleviate the need for plenum-rated cable, although to be honest most solid core cable is plenum-rated anyway. You can find 1000 foot boxes of plenum rated, solid core cat5e for about $45 on amazon, and I?d also check with local contractor outlets like Graybar to see what they can do (since you wouldn?t have to pay for shipping).
> 
> -A.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
 		 	   		  
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From youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com  Tue Jul  7 19:55:17 2015
From: youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com (Joe Wennechuk)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 19:55:17 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Looking for cell phone... which brand?
In-Reply-To: <20150617032654.GA29846@node1.localdomain>
References: <20150617032654.GA29846@node1.localdomain>
Message-ID: <SNT149-W10E99D7554B974B8EC5ECAAF920@phx.gbl>

Don't know if you are still interested... my room mate is selling his new blackberry passport. I love it; but it does look a little funny. I could get you a price if you are interested?

> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 23:26:54 -0400
> From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca
> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> Subject: [kwlug-disc] Looking for cell phone... which brand?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> My BlackBerry is dying.  So, I'm looking to buy a cheap cell phone out
> right for Rogers network.  I don't care about locked, unlocked, Android,
> Windows, etc, because my usage is 95% text and 5% voice.
> 
> Which brand do you recommend?  CanadaComputers has BLU phones (Android).
> Microsoft Stores has them too.  Any feedback on these BLU phones?
> -- 
> William
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
 		 	   		  
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From zixiekat at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 21:30:09 2015
From: zixiekat at gmail.com (Colin Mackay)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:30:09 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
In-Reply-To: <SNT149-W938A02DED3921A55C80786AF920@phx.gbl>
References: <CAPSd_uFjUbfszLN36ih4j8fTUF=qXtfUR6TdehiDVSd67Tixhw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1289368538.733796.1433973574476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<F2030138-D157-4870-A369-D13F9F9E97EC@mixdown.ca>
	<SNT149-W938A02DED3921A55C80786AF920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAPSd_uHxHHBg=xvrmQ+oaJWpP8TcpFZ9WK7UC6iGq-8_RJvn=Q@mail.gmail.com>

I am putting the punch down, switches, router and a little Atom computer
next to the electrical panel, eventually all powered by a modified UPS.  I
still have a ways to go on getting all the cables routed there, but I am
interested in PoE.  Currently I have two Cisco 7940 IP phones, but only one
PoE injector.  Can I purchase Mikrotik anywhere in K/W?

Thanks.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:04 PM, Joe Wennechuk <youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com
> wrote:

> IMHO.....  Being that you're at the planning phase I would suggest the
> extra money on Power over Ethernet gear. It works very well, and provides
> much more flexibility of usage. It will save many headaches in the future
> and will allow you to position the wireless equipment it the optimum
> position.
> I have found Mikrotik gear to be extremely well made, reliable, and mostly
> for me cheap! And just using an rj-45 with out a power brick, module, and
> outlet necessity very nice indeed.
>
> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:PoE-Out
>
> I LOVE of the mikrotik monitoring and discovery tools, especially the
> "Dude"
>
> > From: aklists at mixdown.ca
> > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:31:39 -0400
> > To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
>
> >
> > > On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:59 PM, B. S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > And ... just in case ... don't forget, you'll want plenum rated cable,
> regardless of what you go with. (Heat/fire resistance.)
> > > (Dig into the kwlug archives within the last year or two, search cat6,
> there will be a group of messages from Cedric within that thread. It was
> good reading.
> > > http://kwlug.org/pipermail/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org/ )
> >
> > It was actually a kwartzlab post. I dug through and found it:
> http://kwartzlab.ca/pipermail/discuss_kwartzlab.ca/2012-September/001193.html
> >
> > I?m looking at building a house and to be honest, I?m far more inclined
> to put cat5e throughout. Any truly long runs (say over 50m) would be cat6,
> but my intention would be to install a 3? metal conduit going from the
> basement electrical room to the attic (and another from the basement to
> some central location on the main floor), and then requiring ANY non-power
> cabling to be run through them. I am not sure if I?d buy some 1/2? plastic
> conduit to run inside the walls of a given level or not (i.e. from the
> central conduit to a specific outlet) but I would ask that all non-power
> wires be left loose in the walls so I could more easily pull new cabling if
> the need arose.
> >
> > Using a metal conduit between floors might even alleviate the need for
> plenum-rated cable, although to be honest most solid core cable is
> plenum-rated anyway. You can find 1000 foot boxes of plenum rated, solid
> core cat5e for about $45 on amazon, and I?d also check with local
> contractor outlets like Graybar to see what they can do (since you wouldn?t
> have to pay for shipping).
> >
> > -A.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
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From colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 21:34:21 2015
From: colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com (Colin Mills)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:34:21 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <20150707210638.GA31609@node1.localdomain>
References: <CACzt8WTwR5HEsE6uF-qZM+AvCdQKjdXH+9SJF-Z5ekRPzyAZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<559C3A97.8040205@sobac.com>
	<20150707210638.GA31609@node1.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CACzt8WTR=ZYrqvHLdfdobQRE++JKyiD7fp6TmS7uKhMBNpnF7w@mail.gmail.com>

Unfortunately I cannot make the 26th for I am attending a wedding but we
can look at a date earlier in October if that would work as well.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin J. Mills (cjm)
FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> Advocate

Software Engineering Technology
Second Year
Conestoga College
Canada

"makepkg, not war"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 5:06 PM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Holding SFD at the Linux Conference is an excellent idea!
> --
> William
>
> On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 04:46:15PM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Hi Colin! It will be great to have a Linux Conference in the KW area!
> >
> > 19 September is (probably) the date for Software Freedom Day. I think
> > it would be great to have a track of presentations and workshops on
> > Free Software at a Linux Conference if it coincides with SFD. Here's
> > our SFD page from 2014:
> > http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2014/Canada/Kitchener/TWC
> >
> > 19 September is also the day for the Medieval Faire, Open Doors, Maker
> > Expo, and a bunch of other things in KW that really reduced
> > participation in SFD last year.  Is it possible to hold the Linux
> > Conference on the 26th? You'll probably get better attendance from the
> > public.
> >
> > Finally, I've committed to organizing and presenting at SFD in Toronto
> > on the 19th, so I have a very selfish interest in seeing the Linux
> > Conference on another date. But perhaps it is easier to move the
> > Toronto SFD to the 26th -- let me know...
> >
> > - --Bob.
> >
> >
> > Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-669-0388
> > SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
> > http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/    http://sn.jonkman.ca/bobjonkman/
> > Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
> > GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
> >
> >
> > On 07/07/15 08:13 AM, Colin Mills wrote:
> > > Hi Everybody,
> > >
> > > I apologize I couldn't make it last night I had prior commitments
> > > that came up. If you remember I briefly had started talking about
> > > having a Linux Conference located in and around the Kitchener
> > > area. As such I have taken it upon myself to organize an event that
> > > would be in late September at Conestoga College, the potential date
> > > we are looking at is September 19th. I have backing and some
> > > willing sponsors to talk. It would be a full day event from 9->5.
> > > There will be lunch and coffee provided.  I have three spots
> > > available after lunch to be able to give full hour length talks. We
> > > need people to fill those spots, so if anyone is interested in
> > > giving a talk on UNIXness let me know. There will also be  a chance
> > > for lightening talks during lunch. Attached I have a schedule that
> > > shows the basic layout of the day!
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for your time.
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Colin J. Mills (cjm)
> > > FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software>
> > > Advocate
> > >
> > > Software Engineering Technology Second Year Conestoga College
> > > Canada
> > >
> > > "makepkg, not war"
> > >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing
> > > list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> > >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
> > Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
> >
> > iEYEARECAAYFAlWcOpYACgkQuRKJsNLM5eptIgCg2hiv49N6sHTGALUwGLtX5jEC
> > tpoAnA8I+vGj0mqIBNt765tbkkyb3Lfq
> > =JeSf
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Tue Jul  7 21:44:55 2015
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:44:55 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Looking for cell phone... which brand?
In-Reply-To: <SNT149-W10E99D7554B974B8EC5ECAAF920@phx.gbl>
References: <20150617032654.GA29846@node1.localdomain>
	<SNT149-W10E99D7554B974B8EC5ECAAF920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20150708014455.GA2290@node1.localdomain>

BlackBerry is the only phone I had, starting with Pearl, Bold 9700,
Bold 9780, and now Q10.  The reason for each upgrade was something
broke, eg. hinge, buttons, screen, respectively.  But, I stuck with
BlackBerry.

But, enough is enough.  What a disgusting piece of shit this Q10 is!  I
just can't believe they actually shipped it out.  So, I'm done with
BlackBerry.

I'm eying Motorola Moto E/G, if I can find a sale...
-- 
William

On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 07:55:17PM -0400, Joe Wennechuk wrote:
> Don't know if you are still interested... my room mate is selling his
> new blackberry passport. I love it; but it does look a little funny. I
> could get you a price if you are interested?
> 
> > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2015 23:26:54 -0400
> > From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca
> > To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > Subject: [kwlug-disc] Looking for cell phone... which brand?
> > 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > My BlackBerry is dying.  So, I'm looking to buy a cheap cell phone out
> > right for Rogers network.  I don't care about locked, unlocked, Android,
> > Windows, etc, because my usage is 95% text and 5% voice.
> > 
> > Which brand do you recommend?  CanadaComputers has BLU phones (Android).
> > Microsoft Stores has them too.  Any feedback on these BLU phones?
> > -- 
> > William
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>  		 	   		  

> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
> 





From kb at 2bits.com  Tue Jul  7 21:46:26 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:46:26 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW1ik=8R1HFMFrc8A78ikCwB18vTdqs2oXpAPG_pP+j6LQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:

> About the only thing I go to http://kwlug.org for is the info on upcoming
> meetings (sometimes, past meetings)


That is about all I do on the site as well.

If there is a log analysis tool, and the web server logs are kept long
enough, then Paul et. al. can verify whether other sections of the site are
popular enough.

I would love to see the meeting schedule done with a native Drupal calendar
> module, with, of course, an iCal (.ics) feed.
>

Given that many use Android, perhaps a public Google Calendar is good too.
By being public, it would not require those who are Google-averse to
register to be able to view it.


> But taking a step back -- what on kwlug.org requires Drupal? Is the site
> perhaps light enough that it could be run on a flat-file content management
> system like Dokuwiki, Jekyll, Pelican, or Nikola?
>

Static web site generators have a lot going for them. The most appealing
are speed (everything is static files, no database, no dynamic code), and
security (nothing dynamic exposed to the scary internet). The software
becomes a compiler of sorts.

But they also impose some restrictions. First, there are no comments. Not a
big deal for KWLUG. Also, if more than a person or two are updating the
KWLUG web site, then these static web site generators are indeed appealing.
If more people need write access, then giving them ssh or sftp access is
fraught with problems.

Paul, start by log analysis (if you keep logs), then an inventory of the
modules you are using, and how popular are the sections/pages using them.
Then start crossing out features that are rarely used. In the end a static
web site generator may be a good fit, but only after you do the above and
can reach an informed conclusion.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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From kb at 2bits.com  Tue Jul  7 21:56:41 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:56:41 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Looking for cell phone... which brand?
In-Reply-To: <20150708014455.GA2290@node1.localdomain>
References: <20150617032654.GA29846@node1.localdomain>
	<SNT149-W10E99D7554B974B8EC5ECAAF920@phx.gbl>
	<20150708014455.GA2290@node1.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW3m+pFM5Adk3rrFERURHRAMnkku8NxCk7NFWNUOongEbg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:44 PM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> I'm eying Motorola Moto E/G, if I can find a sale...
>

For what its worth ...

I just got a used Sony Xperia Z1 a few weeks ago. This is my fourth Sony
Android phone in a row (Xperia X10, Xperia Arc, Xperia ZL, then now Z1).

It was $240 off Kijiji, unlocked, with a charging dock (so you don't have
to open the waterproof cover to insert the microUSB cable).

It is bigger and heavier than the ZL, but it is waterproof and you get used
to it.

All the Sony Xperia Z servies (Z, ZL, Z1, Z2, Z3) are upgradeable to
Android Lollipop (5.0, then 5.1 coming out soon).

Looking through Kijiji in Mississauga, there are some Z1 and ZLs for sale.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Tue Jul  7 22:23:16 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 22:23:16 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <CACzt8WTR=ZYrqvHLdfdobQRE++JKyiD7fp6TmS7uKhMBNpnF7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACzt8WTwR5HEsE6uF-qZM+AvCdQKjdXH+9SJF-Z5ekRPzyAZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<559C3A97.8040205@sobac.com>
	<20150707210638.GA31609@node1.localdomain>
	<CACzt8WTR=ZYrqvHLdfdobQRE++JKyiD7fp6TmS7uKhMBNpnF7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150708022316.GA3729@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>


I agree that early October would make more sense than Sept 19. Keep in
mind that there will be a federal election on October 19, which might
also interfere with things. Thus you probably would not want to go too
late in October.

- Paul 

On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 09:34:21PM -0400, Colin Mills wrote:
> Unfortunately I cannot make the 26th for I am attending a wedding but we
> can look at a date earlier in October if that would work as well.
> 




From chaslinux at gmail.com  Tue Jul  7 23:51:48 2015
From: chaslinux at gmail.com (CHARLES MCCOLM)
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2015 23:51:48 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
Message-ID: <2th5i6vvs6hx813on9gstrke.1436327508184@email.android.com>

Not to mention the fact that MakerExpo is on that day and SFD is often on the 19th as well.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> 
Date:07-07-2015  10:23 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> 
Cc:  
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update 


I agree that early October would make more sense than Sept 19. Keep in
mind that there will be a federal election on October 19, which might
also interfere with things. Thus you probably would not want to go too
late in October.

- Paul 

On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 09:34:21PM -0400, Colin Mills wrote:
> Unfortunately I cannot make the 26th for I am attending a wedding but we
> can look at a date earlier in October if that would work as well.
> 


_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc mailing list
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul  8 02:39:04 2015
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 02:39:04 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Looking for cell phone... which brand?
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW3m+pFM5Adk3rrFERURHRAMnkku8NxCk7NFWNUOongEbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150617032654.GA29846@node1.localdomain>
	<SNT149-W10E99D7554B974B8EC5ECAAF920@phx.gbl>
	<20150708014455.GA2290@node1.localdomain>
	<CA+TuoW3m+pFM5Adk3rrFERURHRAMnkku8NxCk7NFWNUOongEbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150708063903.GA5117@node1.localdomain>

On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 09:56:41PM -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 9:44 PM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> 
> > I'm eying Motorola Moto E/G, if I can find a sale...
> >
>
> I just got a used Sony Xperia Z1 a few weeks ago. This is my fourth
> Sony Android phone in a row (Xperia X10, Xperia Arc, Xperia ZL, then
> now Z1).

Why did you have to go through so many Xperia?
Did the glass body crack?
-- 
William




From raymondchen625 at gmail.com  Wed Jul  8 09:25:15 2015
From: raymondchen625 at gmail.com (Raymond Chen)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 09:25:15 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
In-Reply-To: <SNT149-W938A02DED3921A55C80786AF920@phx.gbl>
References: <CAPSd_uFjUbfszLN36ih4j8fTUF=qXtfUR6TdehiDVSd67Tixhw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1289368538.733796.1433973574476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<F2030138-D157-4870-A369-D13F9F9E97EC@mixdown.ca>
	<SNT149-W938A02DED3921A55C80786AF920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CA+LEaaqS8oA8Lm3koM7u1T3VP=yuXpvxisj0Lv2twY=j5ff-UQ@mail.gmail.com>

At first I thought Joe was talking about power line ethernet. After some
study it turned out to be another thing. I guess Power over Ethernet is
cool, if we are planning the wiring from scratch. BTW, the 'power line
ethernet' is not very reliable. I have two adapters which work poorly, with
a lot of packet loss, if I plug any of them in a power strip. If both of
them are on wall outlet, they work well.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:04 PM, Joe Wennechuk <youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com
> wrote:

> IMHO.....  Being that you're at the planning phase I would suggest the
> extra money on Power over Ethernet gear. It works very well, and provides
> much more flexibility of usage. It will save many headaches in the future
> and will allow you to position the wireless equipment it the optimum
> position.
> I have found Mikrotik gear to be extremely well made, reliable, and mostly
> for me cheap! And just using an rj-45 with out a power brick, module, and
> outlet necessity very nice indeed.
>
> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:PoE-Out
>
> I LOVE of the mikrotik monitoring and discovery tools, especially the
> "Dude"
>
> > From: aklists at mixdown.ca
> > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:31:39 -0400
> > To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
> >
> > > On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:59 PM, B. S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > And ... just in case ... don't forget, you'll want plenum rated cable,
> regardless of what you go with. (Heat/fire resistance.)
> > > (Dig into the kwlug archives within the last year or two, search cat6,
> there will be a group of messages from Cedric within that thread. It was
> good reading.
> > > http://kwlug.org/pipermail/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org/ )
> >
> > It was actually a kwartzlab post. I dug through and found it:
> http://kwartzlab.ca/pipermail/discuss_kwartzlab.ca/2012-September/001193.html
> >
> > I?m looking at building a house and to be honest, I?m far more inclined
> to put cat5e throughout. Any truly long runs (say over 50m) would be cat6,
> but my intention would be to install a 3? metal conduit going from the
> basement electrical room to the attic (and another from the basement to
> some central location on the main floor), and then requiring ANY non-power
> cabling to be run through them. I am not sure if I?d buy some 1/2? plastic
> conduit to run inside the walls of a given level or not (i.e. from the
> central conduit to a specific outlet) but I would ask that all non-power
> wires be left loose in the walls so I could more easily pull new cabling if
> the need arose.
> >
> > Using a metal conduit between floors might even alleviate the need for
> plenum-rated cable, although to be honest most solid core cable is
> plenum-rated anyway. You can find 1000 foot boxes of plenum rated, solid
> core cat5e for about $45 on amazon, and I?d also check with local
> contractor outlets like Graybar to see what they can do (since you wouldn?t
> have to pay for shipping).
> >
> > -A.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
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From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Wed Jul  8 09:35:14 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 13:35:14 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
In-Reply-To: <CA+LEaaqS8oA8Lm3koM7u1T3VP=yuXpvxisj0Lv2twY=j5ff-UQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPSd_uFjUbfszLN36ih4j8fTUF=qXtfUR6TdehiDVSd67Tixhw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1289368538.733796.1433973574476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<F2030138-D157-4870-A369-D13F9F9E97EC@mixdown.ca>
	<SNT149-W938A02DED3921A55C80786AF920@phx.gbl>
	<CA+LEaaqS8oA8Lm3koM7u1T3VP=yuXpvxisj0Lv2twY=j5ff-UQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOSWaEomkRPTsTDeLa=sZrUHhNFb7zT1MRo2h_uzMO=4LA@mail.gmail.com>

I can confirm that power line ethernet is still a long ways from reliable.
I had some d-link adapters a few years ago and couldn't even get them to
talk to each other.

PoE, on the other hand, is something else altogether.  The VoIP system we
use at work depends on PoE switches to light up the phones.  Every time we
install the VoIP in a remote office we need to replace the existing
switches with PoE equipment.


On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 at 09:25 Raymond Chen <raymondchen625 at gmail.com> wrote:

> At first I thought Joe was talking about power line ethernet. After some
> study it turned out to be another thing. I guess Power over Ethernet is
> cool, if we are planning the wiring from scratch. BTW, the 'power line
> ethernet' is not very reliable. I have two adapters which work poorly, with
> a lot of packet loss, if I plug any of them in a power strip. If both of
> them are on wall outlet, they work well.
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:04 PM, Joe Wennechuk <
> youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> IMHO.....  Being that you're at the planning phase I would suggest the
>> extra money on Power over Ethernet gear. It works very well, and provides
>> much more flexibility of usage. It will save many headaches in the future
>> and will allow you to position the wireless equipment it the optimum
>> position.
>> I have found Mikrotik gear to be extremely well made, reliable, and
>> mostly for me cheap! And just using an rj-45 with out a power brick,
>> module, and outlet necessity very nice indeed.
>>
>> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:PoE-Out
>>
>> I LOVE of the mikrotik monitoring and discovery tools, especially the
>> "Dude"
>>
>> > From: aklists at mixdown.ca
>> > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:31:39 -0400
>> > To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> > Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
>> >
>> > > On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:59 PM, B. S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > > And ... just in case ... don't forget, you'll want plenum rated
>> cable, regardless of what you go with. (Heat/fire resistance.)
>> > > (Dig into the kwlug archives within the last year or two, search
>> cat6, there will be a group of messages from Cedric within that thread. It
>> was good reading.
>> > > http://kwlug.org/pipermail/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org/ )
>> >
>> > It was actually a kwartzlab post. I dug through and found it:
>> http://kwartzlab.ca/pipermail/discuss_kwartzlab.ca/2012-September/001193.html
>> >
>> > I?m looking at building a house and to be honest, I?m far more inclined
>> to put cat5e throughout. Any truly long runs (say over 50m) would be cat6,
>> but my intention would be to install a 3? metal conduit going from the
>> basement electrical room to the attic (and another from the basement to
>> some central location on the main floor), and then requiring ANY non-power
>> cabling to be run through them. I am not sure if I?d buy some 1/2? plastic
>> conduit to run inside the walls of a given level or not (i.e. from the
>> central conduit to a specific outlet) but I would ask that all non-power
>> wires be left loose in the walls so I could more easily pull new cabling if
>> the need arose.
>> >
>> > Using a metal conduit between floors might even alleviate the need for
>> plenum-rated cable, although to be honest most solid core cable is
>> plenum-rated anyway. You can find 1000 foot boxes of plenum rated, solid
>> core cat5e for about $45 on amazon, and I?d also check with local
>> contractor outlets like Graybar to see what they can do (since you wouldn?t
>> have to pay for shipping).
>> >
>> > -A.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > kwlug-disc mailing list
>> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
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From youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  8 10:27:23 2015
From: youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com (Joe Wennechuk)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 10:27:23 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
In-Reply-To: <CAPSd_uHxHHBg=xvrmQ+oaJWpP8TcpFZ9WK7UC6iGq-8_RJvn=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPSd_uFjUbfszLN36ih4j8fTUF=qXtfUR6TdehiDVSd67Tixhw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<1289368538.733796.1433973574476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>,
	<F2030138-D157-4870-A369-D13F9F9E97EC@mixdown.ca>,
	<SNT149-W938A02DED3921A55C80786AF920@phx.gbl>,
	<CAPSd_uHxHHBg=xvrmQ+oaJWpP8TcpFZ9WK7UC6iGq-8_RJvn=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT149-W44FF2203FFE3AAF48380AAAF910@phx.gbl>

You may be able to get Megawire to sell you some. They have lots of wireless gear, but sometimes they wont sell just hardware to public. it you contact me off list I will email you my friends personal email who works there. The Mikrotik with the dude is some seriously cool stuff. I really love their gear it is totally capable. They have all of the capabilities built in and I use ansible scripts with the raw directive to configure them on the fly when new machines are added to the network.
You can check them out here for mailorder..http://routerboard.com/products

Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2015 21:30:09 -0400
From: zixiekat at gmail.com
To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W

I am putting the punch down, switches, router and a little Atom computer next to the electrical panel, eventually all powered by a modified UPS.  I still have a ways to go on getting all the cables routed there, but I am interested in PoE.  Currently I have two Cisco 7940 IP phones, but only one PoE injector.  Can I purchase Mikrotik anywhere in K/W?

Thanks.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:04 PM, Joe Wennechuk <youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com> wrote:



IMHO.....  Being that you're at the planning phase I would suggest the extra money on Power over Ethernet gear. It works very well, and provides much more flexibility of usage. It will save many headaches in the future and will allow you to position the wireless equipment it the optimum position.
I have found Mikrotik gear to be extremely well made, reliable, and mostly for me cheap! And just using an rj-45 with out a power brick, module, and outlet necessity very nice indeed.
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:PoE-Out
I LOVE of the mikrotik monitoring and discovery tools, especially the "Dude"
> From: aklists at mixdown.ca
> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:31:39 -0400
> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
> 
> > On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:59 PM, B. S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > And ... just in case ... don't forget, you'll want plenum rated cable, regardless of what you go with. (Heat/fire resistance.)
> > (Dig into the kwlug archives within the last year or two, search cat6, there will be a group of messages from Cedric within that thread. It was good reading. 
> > http://kwlug.org/pipermail/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org/ )
> 
> It was actually a kwartzlab post. I dug through and found it: http://kwartzlab.ca/pipermail/discuss_kwartzlab.ca/2012-September/001193.html
> 
> I?m looking at building a house and to be honest, I?m far more inclined to put cat5e throughout. Any truly long runs (say over 50m) would be cat6, but my intention would be to install a 3? metal conduit going from the basement electrical room to the attic (and another from the basement to some central location on the main floor), and then requiring ANY non-power cabling to be run through them.  I am not sure if I?d buy some 1/2? plastic conduit to run inside the walls of a given level or not (i.e. from the central conduit to a specific outlet) but I would ask that all non-power wires be left loose in the walls so I could more easily pull new cabling if the need arose.
> 
> Using a metal conduit between floors might even alleviate the need for plenum-rated cable, although to be honest most solid core cable is plenum-rated anyway. You can find 1000 foot boxes of plenum rated, solid core cat5e for about $45 on amazon, and I?d also check with local contractor outlets like Graybar to see what they can do (since you wouldn?t have to pay for shipping).
> 
> -A.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________

kwlug-disc mailing list

kwlug-disc at kwlug.org

http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org





_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc mailing list
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org 		 	   		  
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From kb at 2bits.com  Wed Jul  8 10:53:50 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 10:53:50 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Looking for cell phone... which brand?
In-Reply-To: <20150708063903.GA5117@node1.localdomain>
References: <20150617032654.GA29846@node1.localdomain>
	<SNT149-W10E99D7554B974B8EC5ECAAF920@phx.gbl>
	<20150708014455.GA2290@node1.localdomain>
	<CA+TuoW3m+pFM5Adk3rrFERURHRAMnkku8NxCk7NFWNUOongEbg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150708063903.GA5117@node1.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW2BF5R2mVK6kP9ah4E8nwe261La5mDYXV1jEf19z8eVcA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 2:39 AM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 09:56:41PM -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
>
> Why did you have to go through so many Xperia?
>

This is over 5 or more years. Each phone is used for 1.5 or so years.

The reason for changing them is usually for passing on the older one to a
family member, or when one is under featured.

For example, the Xperia Arc was a great phone: awesome camera and gorgeous
screen. But had a small memory size [384MB], and Google kept mandating Play
Services, Hangouts, Plus and other apps, and they would not fit. It was
suitable for someone who did not load it with many apps, but not me.

The Xperia ZL was also passed on to another family member who was
considering a WIND tab for $500 on a new phone, thinking it would have
better battery life.

Did the glass body crack?
>

Never happened.

In fact, I never had any hardware or battery problems with any of the
Xperias.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul  8 14:15:42 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:15:42 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <CAKyYXOSMr4C6dz50wFgAurmsbhAVDRsN_rw1G_yNH-PXLc9iLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<CAKyYXOSMr4C6dz50wFgAurmsbhAVDRsN_rw1G_yNH-PXLc9iLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150708181537.GA3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>


This is very unlikely. 

drupalize.me has lots of good videos (for $$$). Andrew Berry works at
Lullabot and has offered discounts in the past. 

- Paul 

On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 12:02:44PM +0000, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> Could you videotape some of the coding process for those of us who are
> thinking of learning Drupal?
> 




From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul  8 14:23:16 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:23:16 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
Message-ID: <20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>


I would like to keep an archive of content, which means migrating
content. Drupal 6 -> Drupal 7 is painful but doable. I am not looking
forward to re-entering all content manually, so then the problem
becomes one of exporting content in some sensible way. (The first
person to blindly suggest "use a wiki!" as the solution has just
volunteered to transcribe all the content.) 

Another thing that is nice with Drupal is having multiple logins. I do
not want to be the only person with commit access, because at some
point other people will need to update KWLUG content.

The third thing is that the content should be updateable by the web,
because giving out SSH credentials like candy might not go over well
with our generous webhosts.

Having said all that, I agree that our poor website has become much
less dynamic than we originally intended, and that making the site
more static would be nice.

- Paul 

On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 05:25:38PM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> 
> But taking a step back -- what on kwlug.org requires Drupal? Is the
> site perhaps light enough that it could be run on a flat-file content
> management system like Dokuwiki, Jekyll, Pelican, or Nikola?
> 
> - --Bob.
> 
> Dokuwiki: https://www.dokuwiki.org/dokuwiki
> 
> Jekyll: http://jekyllrb.com/
> 
> Pelican: http://blog.getpelican.com/
> 
> Nikola: https://getnikola.com/
> 




From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Thu Jul  9 11:48:05 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2015 15:48:05 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] MS and Linux
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOS3QmJGOG=P9GiAZGkD6UcLnV9ZEiiZsYe_uqj0og_KsA@mail.gmail.com>

So I got an unusual email from Microsoft this morning (being an MCSE they
like to send me emails...)

http://www.microsoftvirtualacademy.com/liveevents/building-linux-based-solutions-on-azure-jump-start

It's an invite to a free online talk on how to implement Linux on the Azure
cloud system.  I'm guessing that anyone who's interested can sign up...
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From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Thu Jul  9 11:59:27 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (Jeff Smith)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 11:59:27 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Router dying?
In-Reply-To: <878ubboe8b.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
References: <CAKyYXOSDCC83H=OLo2QhFJroD3CeOWDFScZzpikKawQ1z8FeWA@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAGCrr8gjTByrTcfSJV-zgLDxHG+M2oYorBU+2XQ0fUFzVjr9Hw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAKyYXOT6vof7jCpH30i9Rfy96Wqq0S8Vc76uM0z1bh06Oy+5pw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<7E7CFDED-3BD9-4299-94C2-9CC1D8CB8553@mixdown.ca>,
	<5587D3FE.4030707@rogers.com>,
	<CA+TuoW3-2mfCJA03TCzv2aOEK9Tuh8nLwUDJ4z0oWVsxfmsd3A@mail.gmail.com>,
	<878ubboe8b.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
Message-ID: <COL126-W51DB9164C58311F4111CF3D6900@phx.gbl>

Here's a new update to my router issues..
As you may recall I bought a TP-Link N-750 router a couple of weeks ago to replace my ailing Netgear WNDR3700.
After some install issues I got the TP-Link up and running and set up all my DHCP reservations, port forwards, etc.
In the last few days I noticed that my network would drop (both wired and wifi were unresponsive; I couldn't get anything to talk to anything else).  I had to reboot the router to get everything working again.  Yesterday this happened three times in one day.
So I did a factory reset, threw it all back in the box and took it back to Canada Computers.  They gave me a full refund.
I walked out with a new Netgear AC1900 Nighthawk (the 2 year old model, not the latest and greatest).  This is a big router, but it got great reviews in 2013.  It dropped in and set up without any issues.  From what I can see after one night of playing with it, it runs well and has a decent wifi signal.  Yes, it's $180 which is more than I wanted to spend but I just got burned by buying what was cheap, and my last Netgear lasted several years without any issues.
I'm running the stock firmware right now as there seems to be some debate as to whether or not openWRT works on the AC1900.  I'm waiting for an "all-clear" from the forums before I try installing openWRT on this box.  I will say, though, that the firmware on the Netgear is much more user-friendly than on the TP-Link.  One weird thing; there's no way to set DNS in the DHCP setup.  I haven't checked but I think all DHCP clients get their DNS from the AC1900, which in turn gets it from the DNS set in the internet setup portion.  Usually I can specify what DNS servers I want my DHCP clients assigned.
Jeff
 		 	   		  
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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Thu Jul  9 15:59:18 2015
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2015 15:59:18 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Router dying?
In-Reply-To: <COL126-W51DB9164C58311F4111CF3D6900@phx.gbl>
References: <CAKyYXOSDCC83H=OLo2QhFJroD3CeOWDFScZzpikKawQ1z8FeWA@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAGCrr8gjTByrTcfSJV-zgLDxHG+M2oYorBU+2XQ0fUFzVjr9Hw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAKyYXOT6vof7jCpH30i9Rfy96Wqq0S8Vc76uM0z1bh06Oy+5pw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<7E7CFDED-3BD9-4299-94C2-9CC1D8CB8553@mixdown.ca>,
	<5587D3FE.4030707@rogers.com>,
	<CA+TuoW3-2mfCJA03TCzv2aOEK9Tuh8nLwUDJ4z0oWVsxfmsd3A@mail.gmail.com>,
	<878ubboe8b.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
	<COL126-W51DB9164C58311F4111CF3D6900@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20150709195918.319238250.86475.197@yahoo.ca>

It could be that TP-Link is playing bait-and-switch game, ie. make good product for the review and then produce cheap ones.?

My TP-Link lasted for awhile, so no complaint there. It's just that, had I bought Asus (I forget the model), I wouldn't have to buy router twice. :-)
--?
William?
?
Sent?from?my?BlackBerry?10?smartphone?on?the Rogers?network.

? Original Message ?
From: Jeff Smith
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2015 11:59 AM
To: KWLUG discussion
Reply To: KWLUG discussion
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Router dying?

Here's a new update to my router issues..

As you may recall I bought a TP-Link N-750 router a couple of weeks ago to replace my ailing Netgear WNDR3700.

After some install issues I got the TP-Link up and running and set up all my DHCP reservations, port forwards, etc.

In the last few days I noticed that my network would drop (both wired and wifi were unresponsive; I couldn't get anything to talk to anything else). ?I had to reboot the router to get everything working again. ?Yesterday this happened three times in one day.

So I did a factory reset, threw it all back in the box and took it back to Canada Computers. ?They gave me a full refund.

I walked out with a new Netgear AC1900 Nighthawk (the 2 year old model, not the latest and greatest). ?This is a big router, but it got great reviews in 2013. ?It dropped in and set up without any issues. ?From what I can see after one night of playing with it, it runs well and has a decent wifi signal. ?Yes, it's $180 which is more than I wanted to spend but I just got burned by buying what was cheap, and my last Netgear lasted several years without any issues.

I'm running the stock firmware right now as there seems to be some debate as to whether or not openWRT works on the AC1900. ?I'm waiting for an "all-clear" from the forums before I try installing openWRT on this box. ?I will say, though, that the firmware on the Netgear is much more user-friendly than on the TP-Link. ?One weird thing; there's no way to set DNS in the DHCP setup. ?I haven't checked but I think all DHCP clients get their DNS from the AC1900, which in turn gets it from the DNS set in the internet setup portion. Usually I can specify what DNS servers I want my DHCP clients assigned.

Jeff






From hubert at uhoreg.ca  Thu Jul  9 16:26:09 2015
From: hubert at uhoreg.ca (Hubert Chathi)
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2015 16:26:09 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org> (Paul
	Nijjar's message of "Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:23:16 -0400")
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>

So I'm not volunteering for anything, but... ;)

On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:23:16 -0400, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> said:

> I would like to keep an archive of content, which means migrating
> content. Drupal 6 -> Drupal 7 is painful but doable. I am not looking
> forward to re-entering all content manually, so then the problem
> becomes one of exporting content in some sensible way. (The first
> person to blindly suggest "use a wiki!" as the solution has just
> volunteered to transcribe all the content.)

If you want to do something more static, jekyl has a Drupal 6 importer
http://import.jekyllrb.com/docs/drupal6/
I have no idea how good or bad it is.

> Another thing that is nice with Drupal is having multiple logins. I do
> not want to be the only person with commit access, because at some
> point other people will need to update KWLUG content.

> The third thing is that the content should be updateable by the web,
> because giving out SSH credentials like candy might not go over well
> with our generous webhosts.

One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
to the repository.




From chris at chrisirwin.ca  Thu Jul  9 18:40:09 2015
From: chris at chrisirwin.ca (Chris Irwin)
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 18:40:09 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
Message-ID: <CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Hubert Chathi <hubert at uhoreg.ca> wrote:

> So I'm not volunteering for anything, but... ;)
>
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:23:16 -0400, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>
> said:
>
> > Another thing that is nice with Drupal is having multiple logins. I do
> > not want to be the only person with commit access, because at some
> > point other people will need to update KWLUG content.
>
> > The third thing is that the content should be updateable by the web,
> > because giving out SSH credentials like candy might not go over well
> > with our generous webhosts.
>
> One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
> repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
> Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
> the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
> to the repository.
>

Ikiwiki is quite nice in this regard. You push to it (or configure a pull
periodically via cron, etc) and it rebuilds static content via a git hook.

It supports editing via the web, and supports comments. The http process
commits them to git, which means you can fetch & merge them in your local
copy.

-- 
Chris Irwin
<chris at chrisirwin.ca>
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From colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 13:47:09 2015
From: colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com (Colin Mills)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 13:47:09 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <2th5i6vvs6hx813on9gstrke.1436327508184@email.android.com>
References: <2th5i6vvs6hx813on9gstrke.1436327508184@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CACzt8WQ0pk_QAc_Dcs1TJQCJESDigf5xbmKZ4scNMXi2dF=86g@mail.gmail.com>

As an update, we are still looking for talks and the date has moved to the
beginning of October. Although the date isnt finalized we are looking at
the 3rd.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin J. Mills (cjm)
FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> Advocate

Software Engineering Technology
Second Year
Conestoga College
Canada

"makepkg, not war"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 11:51 PM, CHARLES MCCOLM <chaslinux at gmail.com> wrote:

> Not to mention the fact that MakerExpo is on that day and SFD is often on
> the 19th as well.
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>
> Date:07-07-2015 10:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
>
>
> I agree that early October would make more sense than Sept 19. Keep in
> mind that there will be a federal election on October 19, which might
> also interfere with things. Thus you probably would not want to go too
> late in October.
>
> - Paul
>
> On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 09:34:21PM -0400, Colin Mills wrote:
> > Unfortunately I cannot make the 26th for I am attending a wedding but we
> > can look at a date earlier in October if that would work as well.
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
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From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 14:21:23 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 18:21:23 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <CACzt8WQ0pk_QAc_Dcs1TJQCJESDigf5xbmKZ4scNMXi2dF=86g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2th5i6vvs6hx813on9gstrke.1436327508184@email.android.com>
	<CACzt8WQ0pk_QAc_Dcs1TJQCJESDigf5xbmKZ4scNMXi2dF=86g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOT9cNwq8BxcRzOZkU+OO7Yb3bphrDedFYOx4eU=sw5tpw@mail.gmail.com>

Another reason to not use Sept 19th.. the next season of Dr. Who starts
that day!

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 at 13:47 Colin Mills <colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com> wrote:

> As an update, we are still looking for talks and the date has moved to the
> beginning of October. Although the date isnt finalized we are looking at
> the 3rd.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Colin J. Mills (cjm)
> FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> Advocate
>
> Software Engineering Technology
> Second Year
> Conestoga College
> Canada
>
> "makepkg, not war"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 11:51 PM, CHARLES MCCOLM <chaslinux at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Not to mention the fact that MakerExpo is on that day and SFD is often on
>> the 19th as well.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>
>> Date:07-07-2015 10:23 PM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
>>
>>
>> I agree that early October would make more sense than Sept 19. Keep in
>> mind that there will be a federal election on October 19, which might
>> also interfere with things. Thus you probably would not want to go too
>> late in October.
>>
>> - Paul
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 09:34:21PM -0400, Colin Mills wrote:
>> > Unfortunately I cannot make the 26th for I am attending a wedding but we
>> > can look at a date earlier in October if that would work as well.
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
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From dscassel at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 16:36:27 2015
From: dscassel at gmail.com (Darcy Casselman)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 13:36:27 -0700
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Looking for cell phone... which brand?
In-Reply-To: <20150708014455.GA2290@node1.localdomain>
References: <20150617032654.GA29846@node1.localdomain>
	<SNT149-W10E99D7554B974B8EC5ECAAF920@phx.gbl>
	<20150708014455.GA2290@node1.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAA=K3Wen4_+9CQ69dXW_6Jh0Wqkf7y5XMd7sVRD0dSaxUH8gDQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 6:44 PM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> I'm eying Motorola Moto E/G, if I can find a sale...


I'm thinking Moto G or X for my next phone as well, since Nexus phones are
dabbling in high-end pricing with no discernible increase in quality.

Darcy.
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From keefer.rourke at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 17:02:33 2015
From: keefer.rourke at gmail.com (Keefer Rourke)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 17:02:33 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Looking for cell phone... which brand?
In-Reply-To: <CAA=K3Wen4_+9CQ69dXW_6Jh0Wqkf7y5XMd7sVRD0dSaxUH8gDQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150617032654.GA29846@node1.localdomain>
	<SNT149-W10E99D7554B974B8EC5ECAAF920@phx.gbl>
	<20150708014455.GA2290@node1.localdomain>
	<CAA=K3Wen4_+9CQ69dXW_6Jh0Wqkf7y5XMd7sVRD0dSaxUH8gDQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0ADE091C-3078-4754-9F5B-713BCFD48BE2@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

I have the first generation Moto G, which has served me quite well over the past year and a bit. Good build quality, cheap price, and decent aftermarket software support.

For those who are interested, my particular model (the XT1032) has working builds of Ubuntu Phone and Firefox OS -- so those are options if you aren't incredibly fond of Android. I'd recommend the device over a Moto X, simply due to the fact that the processor on the X is weird, and interesting alternative operating systems don't exist for it.

As far as the Nexus line of phones go, they're great for development (better than anything else really), but I'm not impressed with the pricing of the Nexus 6 (most people aren't). Rumour has it though that another Nexus 5 is due in October, hopefully with the familiar Google subsidised pricing.

Cheers,
Keefer

- --
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

On July 10, 2015 4:36:27 PM EDT, Darcy Casselman <dscassel at gmail.com> wrote:
>On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 6:44 PM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
>wrote:
>
>> I'm eying Motorola Moto E/G, if I can find a sale...
>
>
>I'm thinking Moto G or X for my next phone as well, since Nexus phones
>are
>dabbling in high-end pricing with no discernible increase in quality.
>
>Darcy.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>kwlug-disc mailing list
>kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: APG v1.1.1

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From bjonkman at sobac.com  Fri Jul 10 22:54:43 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 22:54:43 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <CACzt8WQ0pk_QAc_Dcs1TJQCJESDigf5xbmKZ4scNMXi2dF=86g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2th5i6vvs6hx813on9gstrke.1436327508184@email.android.com>
	<CACzt8WQ0pk_QAc_Dcs1TJQCJESDigf5xbmKZ4scNMXi2dF=86g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55A08573.3010504@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Colin: Can Software Freedom Day piggyback on your venue? If so, we
can probably bring in a few speakers, perhaps a workshop, and maybe
even a Free Culture Film Festival.

- --Bob.


On 10/07/15 01:47 PM, Colin Mills wrote:
> As an update, we are still looking for talks and the date has moved
> to the beginning of October. Although the date isnt finalized we
> are looking at the 3rd.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 
Colin J. Mills (cjm)
> FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software>
> Advocate
> 
> Software Engineering Technology Second Year Conestoga College 
> Canada
> 
> "makepkg, not war" 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 11:51 PM, CHARLES MCCOLM
> <chaslinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Not to mention the fact that MakerExpo is on that day and SFD is
>> often on the 19th as well.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Original message -------- From: Paul Nijjar
>> <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> Date:07-07-2015 10:23 PM (GMT-05:00) To:
>> KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> Cc: Subject: Re:
>> [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
>> 
>> 
>> I agree that early October would make more sense than Sept 19.
>> Keep in mind that there will be a federal election on October 19,
>> which might also interfere with things. Thus you probably would
>> not want to go too late in October.
>> 
>> - Paul
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 09:34:21PM -0400, Colin Mills wrote:
>>> Unfortunately I cannot make the 26th for I am attending a
>>> wedding but we can look at a date earlier in October if that
>>> would work as well.


Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability

iEYEARECAAYFAlWghXEACgkQuRKJsNLM5erX0QCg5JmAmfWb3hciV7JY2dzCbvgw
2OAAoPcKE6a4W9+gcSFlsBTfxc+vSF8C
=LQae
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From chaslinux at gmail.com  Fri Jul 10 23:51:53 2015
From: chaslinux at gmail.com (Charles M)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 23:51:53 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <55A08573.3010504@sobac.com>
References: <2th5i6vvs6hx813on9gstrke.1436327508184@email.android.com>
	<CACzt8WQ0pk_QAc_Dcs1TJQCJESDigf5xbmKZ4scNMXi2dF=86g@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A08573.3010504@sobac.com>
Message-ID: <CANKsL=N4nP6h63kKxD8JWYEOAvhyqWfNUC1+9q6LgumhxO=0Wg@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like a plan Bob. In lieu of SFD KW those who'd normally talk could
help with talks at this Linux festival.

BTW if you're planning on distributing DVDs we can help with the copying
process. We have a machine that will do several at once.

On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi Colin: Can Software Freedom Day piggyback on your venue? If so, we
> can probably bring in a few speakers, perhaps a workshop, and maybe
> even a Free Culture Film Festival.
>
> - --Bob.
>
>
> On 10/07/15 01:47 PM, Colin Mills wrote:
> > As an update, we are still looking for talks and the date has moved
> > to the beginning of October. Although the date isnt finalized we
> > are looking at the 3rd.
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> Colin J. Mills (cjm)
> > FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software>
> > Advocate
> >
> > Software Engineering Technology Second Year Conestoga College
> > Canada
> >
> > "makepkg, not war"
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >  On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 11:51 PM, CHARLES MCCOLM
> > <chaslinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Not to mention the fact that MakerExpo is on that day and SFD is
> >> often on the 19th as well.
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> >>
> >>
> >> -------- Original message -------- From: Paul Nijjar
> >> <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> Date:07-07-2015 10:23 PM (GMT-05:00) To:
> >> KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> Cc: Subject: Re:
> >> [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
> >>
> >>
> >> I agree that early October would make more sense than Sept 19.
> >> Keep in mind that there will be a federal election on October 19,
> >> which might also interfere with things. Thus you probably would
> >> not want to go too late in October.
> >>
> >> - Paul
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 09:34:21PM -0400, Colin Mills wrote:
> >>> Unfortunately I cannot make the 26th for I am attending a
> >>> wedding but we can look at a date earlier in October if that
> >>> would work as well.
>
>
> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
> SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
> Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlWghXEACgkQuRKJsNLM5erX0QCg5JmAmfWb3hciV7JY2dzCbvgw
> 2OAAoPcKE6a4W9+gcSFlsBTfxc+vSF8C
> =LQae
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>



-- 
Charles McColm, Author: Instant XBMC,
Columnist: Full Circle Magazine,
Project Manager: The Working Centre Computer Recycling Project
Web: http://www.theworkingcentre.org/cr/
Blog: http://www.charlesmccolm.com/
Twitter/Identica/Google+: @chaslinux
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From acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Jul 11 00:09:10 2015
From: acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Sullivan Cant)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 00:09:10 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
	<CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>

Oh dear, I think that I might have brainwashed Bob with talk of static web sites. :)

Given that kwlug.org does not change that much, and discussion is handled in the mailing list it seems like a good option.
We could remove the general posting functionality, and just aggregate the FLOSS related blogs of members.

Hubert mentioned this:
> One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
> repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
> Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
> the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
> to the repository.

I think this would probably work well. I would pick Gitlab, just because they do actually release the code for their service.


Jekyll[1] is a pretty popular and would be a good option. I have been using middleman [2] for my personal site [3] and kwruby.ca [4], which are both still pretty simple. It seems like a good option too. They both have large collections of plugins.

I have tried ikiwiki and found it fiddly, and eventually switched to middleman.

Andrew

[1] http://jekyllrb.com/
[2] https://middlemanapp.com/
[3] http://andrewsullivancant.ca/
[4] http://kwruby.ca/

On 09/07/15 18:40, Chris Irwin wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Hubert Chathi <hubert at uhoreg.ca
> <mailto:hubert at uhoreg.ca>> wrote:
>
>     So I'm not volunteering for anything, but... ;)
>
>     On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:23:16 -0400, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca
>     <mailto:paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>> said:
>
>     > Another thing that is nice with Drupal is having multiple logins. I do
>     > not want to be the only person with commit access, because at some
>     > point other people will need to update KWLUG content.
>
>     > The third thing is that the content should be updateable by the web,
>     > because giving out SSH credentials like candy might not go over well
>     > with our generous webhosts.
>
>     One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
>     repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
>     Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
>     the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
>     to the repository.
>
>
> Ikiwiki is quite nice in this regard. You push to it (or configure a
> pull periodically via cron, etc) and it rebuilds static content via a
> git hook.
>
> It supports editing via the web, and supports comments. The http process
> commits them to git, which means you can fetch & merge them in your
> local copy.
>
> -- 
> Chris Irwin
> <chris at chrisirwin.ca <mailto:chris at chrisirwin.ca>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>





From acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Jul 11 00:35:14 2015
From: acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Sullivan Cant)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 00:35:14 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <55A09D02.7030204@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>

As not a member of the "Secret Website Conspiracy"
here is a gitlab group and initial project that we can use.

https://gitlab.com/groups/kwlug

Now, this is the first time that I have actually used gitlab, so it
might take some poking around. But this does give us an issue tracker
and wiki right off the bat.

I marked it public, so everyone should be able to see it, and open issues.
Send me your username on gitlab, and I'll be happy to add anyone to the
groups team list, so you can edit repositories.

Andrew


On 07/07/15 07:10, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> As I mentioned during the meeting, we are starting to think about
> transitioning our website from Drupal 6 to Drupal 7. There are some
> changes I would like to see (mostly having to do with simplifying the
> website and de-emphasizing things we never use) but I am interested in
> hearing from the broader KWLUG community: 
> 
> - What is working?
> - What is not working?
> - What changes do you feel should be made?
> 
> This could quickly turn into a bikeshed problem, and also could
> quickly turn into a project where we try to add every bit of
> functionality that we can just because it might be useful someday. So
> I am not promising that the Secret Website Conspiracy will implement
> all suggestions, but I will promise that the group will read and
> consider them. 
> 
> - Paul 
> 


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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Sat Jul 11 01:35:32 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 01:35:32 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
	<CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20150711053531.GE3845@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>


Come on, folks. So far it seems that the answer to the questions of 

- What is working?
- What is not working?
- What changes do you feel should be made?

is "the website is too dynamic, so please make it static and also set
up a Gitlab instance to host the git repository to which you hand out
keys"?

Clearly I did not frame the questions clearly enough.

- Paul 

On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 12:09:10AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
> Oh dear, I think that I might have brainwashed Bob with talk of static web sites. :)
> 
> Given that kwlug.org does not change that much, and discussion is handled in the mailing list it seems like a good option.
> We could remove the general posting functionality, and just aggregate the FLOSS related blogs of members.
> 
> Hubert mentioned this:
> > One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
> > repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
> > Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
> > the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
> > to the repository.
> 
> I think this would probably work well. I would pick Gitlab, just because they do actually release the code for their service.
> 
> 
> Jekyll[1] is a pretty popular and would be a good option. I have been using middleman [2] for my personal site [3] and kwruby.ca [4], which are both still pretty simple. It seems like a good option too. They both have large collections of plugins.
> 
> I have tried ikiwiki and found it fiddly, and eventually switched to middleman.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> [1] http://jekyllrb.com/
> [2] https://middlemanapp.com/
> [3] http://andrewsullivancant.ca/
> [4] http://kwruby.ca/
> 
> On 09/07/15 18:40, Chris Irwin wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Hubert Chathi <hubert at uhoreg.ca
> > <mailto:hubert at uhoreg.ca>> wrote:
> >
> >     So I'm not volunteering for anything, but... ;)
> >
> >     On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:23:16 -0400, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca
> >     <mailto:paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>> said:
> >
> >     > Another thing that is nice with Drupal is having multiple logins. I do
> >     > not want to be the only person with commit access, because at some
> >     > point other people will need to update KWLUG content.
> >
> >     > The third thing is that the content should be updateable by the web,
> >     > because giving out SSH credentials like candy might not go over well
> >     > with our generous webhosts.
> >
> >     One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
> >     repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
> >     Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
> >     the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
> >     to the repository.
> >
> >
> > Ikiwiki is quite nice in this regard. You push to it (or configure a
> > pull periodically via cron, etc) and it rebuilds static content via a
> > git hook.
> >
> > It supports editing via the web, and supports comments. The http process
> > commits them to git, which means you can fetch & merge them in your
> > local copy.
> >
> > -- 
> > Chris Irwin
> > <chris at chrisirwin.ca <mailto:chris at chrisirwin.ca>>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From kb at 2bits.com  Sat Jul 11 10:15:35 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 10:15:35 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150711053531.GE3845@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
	<CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
	<20150711053531.GE3845@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW2T=-Mjvq0T-_x0TXF+HeCJABsuteYot0LdUCXZML3G4w@mail.gmail.com>

Seems like a good discussion to have for the Drupal Users Group.

We take a break in July/August, then we have confirmed speakers for
September/October.

It would be a good case study where all attendees brainstorm on what to do
with the site (including, go non-Drupal/static, getting an inventory of
modules, checking what is upgraded and what not, what can be eliminated,
using the migrate module as an alternative to update.php, ...etc.)

The question is, can you wait till third week of November?

On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 1:35 AM, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> wrote:

>
> Come on, folks. So far it seems that the answer to the questions of
>
> - What is working?
> - What is not working?
> - What changes do you feel should be made?
>
> is "the website is too dynamic, so please make it static and also set
> up a Gitlab instance to host the git repository to which you hand out
> keys"?
>
> Clearly I did not frame the questions clearly enough.
>
> - Paul
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 12:09:10AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
> > Oh dear, I think that I might have brainwashed Bob with talk of static
> web sites. :)
> >
> > Given that kwlug.org does not change that much, and discussion is
> handled in the mailing list it seems like a good option.
> > We could remove the general posting functionality, and just aggregate
> the FLOSS related blogs of members.
> >
> > Hubert mentioned this:
> > > One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
> > > repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
> > > Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
> > > the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
> > > to the repository.
> >
> > I think this would probably work well. I would pick Gitlab, just because
> they do actually release the code for their service.
> >
> >
> > Jekyll[1] is a pretty popular and would be a good option. I have been
> using middleman [2] for my personal site [3] and kwruby.ca [4], which are
> both still pretty simple. It seems like a good option too. They both have
> large collections of plugins.
> >
> > I have tried ikiwiki and found it fiddly, and eventually switched to
> middleman.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > [1] http://jekyllrb.com/
> > [2] https://middlemanapp.com/
> > [3] http://andrewsullivancant.ca/
> > [4] http://kwruby.ca/
> >
> > On 09/07/15 18:40, Chris Irwin wrote:
> > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Hubert Chathi <hubert at uhoreg.ca
> > > <mailto:hubert at uhoreg.ca>> wrote:
> > >
> > >     So I'm not volunteering for anything, but... ;)
> > >
> > >     On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:23:16 -0400, Paul Nijjar <
> paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca
> > >     <mailto:paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>> said:
> > >
> > >     > Another thing that is nice with Drupal is having multiple
> logins. I do
> > >     > not want to be the only person with commit access, because at
> some
> > >     > point other people will need to update KWLUG content.
> > >
> > >     > The third thing is that the content should be updateable by the
> web,
> > >     > because giving out SSH credentials like candy might not go over
> well
> > >     > with our generous webhosts.
> > >
> > >     One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up
> a git
> > >     repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write
> access.
> > >     Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull
> from
> > >     the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a
> push
> > >     to the repository.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ikiwiki is quite nice in this regard. You push to it (or configure a
> > > pull periodically via cron, etc) and it rebuilds static content via a
> > > git hook.
> > >
> > > It supports editing via the web, and supports comments. The http
> process
> > > commits them to git, which means you can fetch & merge them in your
> > > local copy.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Chris Irwin
> > > <chris at chrisirwin.ca <mailto:chris at chrisirwin.ca>>
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
> --
> http://pnijjar.freeshell.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>



-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Sat Jul 11 13:16:35 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B. S.)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 17:16:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <CANKsL=N4nP6h63kKxD8JWYEOAvhyqWfNUC1+9q6LgumhxO=0Wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANKsL=N4nP6h63kKxD8JWYEOAvhyqWfNUC1+9q6LgumhxO=0Wg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1260289687.411805.1436634995353.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Check me on this, please ...

It has always seemed to me that SFD, at least in its (perhaps inadvertent) characterization in this area, has a desire / intent to encourage those with little resources / knowledge to take advantage of and improve their lives / capacities with capabilities currently unavailable to them (due to costs / Windows), via amazingly capable free software available to them today, quickly, easily, and without cost.

In order to facilitate that audience, it has always seemed to me that SFD felt it important to be local / walking distance / easily/regularly accessible by bus. [Not being a bus user, so not knowing any better, I would characterize Conestoga as not being either 'easily' or 'regularly' accessible by bus. At the same time I have been told by regular bus users that my evidently car centric life makes cross-city multi-route bus travel more intimidating to me than it actually is.)

So I wonder: Is Conestoga not too far out for the intended SFD audience? Though I do think it would ensure that attendees are truly engaged. People coming by bus really wanted to attend, and those who happened to be walking by but aren't really as engaged as the current audience (and become disruptive), minimized.


I also wonder: Conferences seem to attract professionals, or at least seriously engaged hobbyists. Are the conference 'goals' thus too intimidating for the above 'intended' local SFD audience? At the very least, organizers should be cognizant of the different audiences, and keep an eye that both streams flow well, simultaneously.


Otherwise, I suspect the two events should be kept separate, and SFD focus on being downtown.

[Having said all this, I do get that SFD has been problematic for attendance and presenters in the past, the date conflicts are significantly problematic this year, and LRT construction isn't helping. Perhaps SFD at the conference/Conestoga is a good opportunity for a fresh look at it all - for intent, venue, audience, and so on.]

In any case, expressing the goals of both Conference and SFD is probably worthwhile as a constant touchstone for organizers/participants.


>________________________________
> From: Charles M <chaslinux at gmail.com>
>To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> 
>Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 11:51 PM
>Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
> 
>
>
>Sounds like a plan Bob. In lieu of SFD KW those who'd normally talk could help with talks at this Linux festival.
>
>BTW if you're planning on distributing DVDs we can help with the copying process. We have a machine that will do several at once.
>
>On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
>>
>>Hi Colin: Can Software Freedom Day piggyback on your venue? If so, we
>>can probably bring in a few speakers, perhaps a workshop, and maybe
>>even a Free Culture Film Festival.

.
.
.




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sat Jul 11 13:38:01 2015
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 13:38:01 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <1260289687.411805.1436634995353.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CANKsL=N4nP6h63kKxD8JWYEOAvhyqWfNUC1+9q6LgumhxO=0Wg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1260289687.411805.1436634995353.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20150711173801.369672298.4457.373@yahoo.ca>

?I just hope Linux Conference at Conestoga has free parking.
--?
?William ?
?
Sent?from?my?BlackBerry?10?smartphone?on?the Rogers?network.
? Original Message ?
From: B. S.
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 1:16 PM
To: KWLUG discussion
Reply To: KWLUG discussion
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update

Check me on this, please ...

It has always seemed to me that SFD, at least in its (perhaps inadvertent) characterization in this area, has a desire / intent to encourage those with little resources / knowledge to take advantage of and improve their lives / capacities with capabilities currently unavailable to them (due to costs / Windows), via amazingly capable free software available to them today, quickly, easily, and without cost.

In order to facilitate that audience, it has always seemed to me that SFD felt it important to be local / walking distance / easily/regularly accessible by bus. [Not being a bus user, so not knowing any better, I would characterize Conestoga as not being either 'easily' or 'regularly' accessible by bus. At the same time I have been told by regular bus users that my evidently car centric life makes cross-city multi-route bus travel more intimidating to me than it actually is.)

So I wonder: Is Conestoga not too far out for the intended SFD audience? Though I do think it would ensure that attendees are truly engaged. People coming by bus really wanted to attend, and those who happened to be walking by but aren't really as engaged as the current audience (and become disruptive), minimized.


I also wonder: Conferences seem to attract professionals, or at least seriously engaged hobbyists. Are the conference 'goals' thus too intimidating for the above 'intended' local SFD audience? At the very least, organizers should be cognizant of the different audiences, and keep an eye that both streams flow well, simultaneously.


Otherwise, I suspect the two events should be kept separate, and SFD focus on being downtown.

[Having said all this, I do get that SFD has been problematic for attendance and presenters in the past, the date conflicts are significantly problematic this year, and LRT construction isn't helping. Perhaps SFD at the conference/Conestoga is a good opportunity for a fresh look at it all - for intent, venue, audience, and so on.]

In any case, expressing the goals of both Conference and SFD is probably worthwhile as a constant touchstone for organizers/participants.


>________________________________
> From: Charles M <chaslinux at gmail.com>
>To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> 
>Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 11:51 PM
>Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
> 
>
>
>Sounds like a plan Bob. In lieu of SFD KW those who'd normally talk could help with talks at this Linux festival.
>
>BTW if you're planning on distributing DVDs we can help with the copying process. We have a machine that will do several at once.
>
>On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
>>
>>Hi Colin: Can Software Freedom Day piggyback on your venue? If so, we
>>can probably bring in a few speakers, perhaps a workshop, and maybe
>>even a Free Culture Film Festival.

.
.
.


_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc mailing list
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Sat Jul 11 13:46:15 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B. S.)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 17:46:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150711053531.GE3845@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <20150711053531.GE3845@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <61539912.415885.1436636775620.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Aren't both of you going at this backwards, and cart before the horse? Choosing the technology before defining the content, or asking what should change before defining what it should be?

How about answering "What is www.kwlug.org to be?" first. Get group consensus (in person) first - 'tis a hard thing to do via e-mail. [In a laptop building like event, outside of the regular kwlug meetings.]

The rest will follow.

Let alone ... I believe that readers of this list largely don't use the web site. (Being 'technical' they satisfy most of their desires in other ways.) Which is all to say, shouldn't the desired audience of the web site first be identified? As they are more the users of the effort, than those on this list? [This is also chicken and egg - list readers would use the site more if <xyz>?] Khalid's comments to (have him?) summarize the access logs to categorize users seem prudent. Never mind "So who do we want to attract? To what end? How to be effective in doing so?"


The one thing that does seem apparent to me, from the history of www.kwlug.org and the surrounding technological change that has occurred over even its lifetime ... we've long passed the point where any one technology is going to satisfy everything in one go. Except perhaps for groupware, which hasn't even been mentioned thus far. Blogs, news, feeds (both in and out, a/v and rss), IM, and any amount of other niftyness, all have seemed desirable at one point in time. Almost like kwlug.org should be considered as merely a domain name or hub, to which multiple 'plugins' are attached. Be it twitter feed, youtube channel, and so on and so forth.

So maybe it shouldn't be a matter of migrating from here to there, but start fresh, with plugins and pointers to current content until and unless that content is migrated. Just another plugin.

And maybe the choice of technology comes down to the environment's plugin richness. Then each aspect can choose best of breed, and dots connected.

This seems to be what's going on, anyways - those with a particular interest focus on it. A/V can worry about A/V without having to encompass all of kwlug.org, twitter, blog, news, the same. And people like Paul can hand off responsibility for entire functionalities to those engaged in particular aspects, simplifying his own life in the process?



----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 1:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
> 
> 
> Come on, folks. So far it seems that the answer to the questions of 
> 
> - What is working?
> - What is not working?
> - What changes do you feel should be made?
> 
> is "the website is too dynamic, so please make it static and also set
> up a Gitlab instance to host the git repository to which you hand out
> keys"?
> 
> Clearly I did not frame the questions clearly enough.
> 
> - Paul 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 12:09:10AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
>>  Oh dear, I think that I might have brainwashed Bob with talk of static web 
> sites. :)
.
.
.




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sat Jul 11 14:06:52 2015
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 14:06:52 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <61539912.415885.1436636775620.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20150711053531.GE3845@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<61539912.415885.1436636775620.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20150711180652.369672298.72413.378@yahoo.ca>

I think it comes down to money and time, ie. no money and no time. Legacy and inertia are expensive to change. Remember, this is all free and we're all volunteers.?
-- 
William 
?
Sent?from?my?BlackBerry?10?smartphone?on?the Rogers?network.
? Original Message ?
From: B. S.
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 1:46 PM
To: KWLUG discussion
Reply To: KWLUG discussion
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist

Aren't both of you going at this backwards, and cart before the horse? Choosing the technology before defining the content, or asking what should change before defining what it should be?

How about answering "What is www.kwlug.org to be?" first. Get group consensus (in person) first - 'tis a hard thing to do via e-mail. [In a laptop building like event, outside of the regular kwlug meetings.]

The rest will follow.

Let alone ... I believe that readers of this list largely don't use the web site. (Being 'technical' they satisfy most of their desires in other ways.) Which is all to say, shouldn't the desired audience of the web site first be identified? As they are more the users of the effort, than those on this list? [This is also chicken and egg - list readers would use the site more if <xyz>?] Khalid's comments to (have him?) summarize the access logs to categorize users seem prudent. Never mind "So who do we want to attract? To what end? How to be effective in doing so?"


The one thing that does seem apparent to me, from the history of www.kwlug.org and the surrounding technological change that has occurred over even its lifetime ... we've long passed the point where any one technology is going to satisfy everything in one go. Except perhaps for groupware, which hasn't even been mentioned thus far. Blogs, news, feeds (both in and out, a/v and rss), IM, and any amount of other niftyness, all have seemed desirable at one point in time. Almost like kwlug.org should be considered as merely a domain name or hub, to which multiple 'plugins' are attached. Be it twitter feed, youtube channel, and so on and so forth.

So maybe it shouldn't be a matter of migrating from here to there, but start fresh, with plugins and pointers to current content until and unless that content is migrated. Just another plugin.

And maybe the choice of technology comes down to the environment's plugin richness. Then each aspect can choose best of breed, and dots connected.

This seems to be what's going on, anyways - those with a particular interest focus on it. A/V can worry about A/V without having to encompass all of kwlug.org, twitter, blog, news, the same. And people like Paul can hand off responsibility for entire functionalities to those engaged in particular aspects, simplifying his own life in the process?



----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2015 1:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
> 
> 
> Come on, folks. So far it seems that the answer to the questions of 
> 
> - What is working?
> - What is not working?
> - What changes do you feel should be made?
> 
> is "the website is too dynamic, so please make it static and also set
> up a Gitlab instance to host the git repository to which you hand out
> keys"?
> 
> Clearly I did not frame the questions clearly enough.
> 
> - Paul 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 12:09:10AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
>> Oh dear, I think that I might have brainwashed Bob with talk of static web 
> sites. :)
.
.
.


_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc mailing list
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From dscassel at gmail.com  Sat Jul 11 23:54:12 2015
From: dscassel at gmail.com (Darcy Casselman)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2015 20:54:12 -0700
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <559C3A97.8040205@sobac.com>
References: <CACzt8WTwR5HEsE6uF-qZM+AvCdQKjdXH+9SJF-Z5ekRPzyAZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<559C3A97.8040205@sobac.com>
Message-ID: <CAA=K3WdiRdTN1QRm+DAjB=nw3G0BYN64foO0Mkss6-2dXL-kqw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:

> 19 September is also the day for the Medieval Faire, Open Doors, Maker
> Expo, and a bunch of other things in KW that really reduced
> participation in SFD last year.


If I'd caught the SFD connection earlier, I'd have suggested you register
as a Maker Expo exhibitor for SFD.  Registration is closed, but we might
still be able to find a spot, depending.  Exhibiting is free and so is
admission.

Darcy.
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From sandeepjohri at rogers.com  Sun Jul 12 08:18:19 2015
From: sandeepjohri at rogers.com (Sandeep Johri)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 08:18:19 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
In-Reply-To: <CAKyYXOSWaEomkRPTsTDeLa=sZrUHhNFb7zT1MRo2h_uzMO=4LA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPSd_uFjUbfszLN36ih4j8fTUF=qXtfUR6TdehiDVSd67Tixhw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1289368538.733796.1433973574476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<F2030138-D157-4870-A369-D13F9F9E97EC@mixdown.ca>
	<SNT149-W938A02DED3921A55C80786AF920@phx.gbl>
	<CA+LEaaqS8oA8Lm3koM7u1T3VP=yuXpvxisj0Lv2twY=j5ff-UQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKyYXOSWaEomkRPTsTDeLa=sZrUHhNFb7zT1MRo2h_uzMO=4LA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55A25B0B.5050103@rogers.com>

This may be slightly off topic however thought I'd add my 2 cents 
regarding my sucess with Powerline Adapters.

My cable modem / router is in our basement and the bedroom upstairs gets 
no / a very weak wifi signal.  As a result I opted for powerline 
adapters.  Initially the broadband speed I'd get was 1/10th of the speed 
that I'd get on pc's connected directly to the cable modem.  However the 
following tweaks have helped improve that to 1/3rd of that speed:

1) Using a wall socket and not attaching the adpaters to a power bar.

2) Using that wall socket for the adapter only and not attaching any 
other gadget to the spare outlet.

3) Using the wall socket that is closest to the breaker switchboard.  My 
bedroom and the basement are on different circuits as a result being 
close to the switchboard helps ensure the signals travel the shortest 
distance.

The above has resulted in my needing to run a 20' to 30' ethernet cable 
from my pc to the powerline adapter however the improvement in signal 
strength as been worth it.  There are several articles like this one 
<http://help.virginmedia.com/system/selfservice.controller?CMD=VIEW_ARTICLE&ARTICLE_ID=2814&CURRENT_CMD=SEARCH&CONFIGURATION=1001&PARTITION_ID=1&USERTYPE=1&LANGUAGE=en&COUNTY=us&VM_CUSTOMER_TYPE=Cable> 
that suggest ways to improve powerline adapter performance.  
Additionally for the things I do at home (e.g. streaming movies / songs 
from my 'basement' pc, sharing files), I find them to be reliable.

Thanks
Sandeep

From:
Sandeep Johri

On 08/07/15 09:35 AM, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> I can confirm that power line ethernet is still a long ways from 
> reliable.  I had some d-link adapters a few years ago and couldn't 
> even get them to talk to each other.
>
> PoE, on the other hand, is something else altogether.  The VoIP system 
> we use at work depends on PoE switches to light up the phones.  Every 
> time we install the VoIP in a remote office we need to replace the 
> existing switches with PoE equipment.
>
>
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 at 09:25 Raymond Chen <raymondchen625 at gmail.com 
> <mailto:raymondchen625 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     At first I thought Joe was talking about power line ethernet.
>     After some study it turned out to be another thing. I guess Power
>     over Ethernet is cool, if we are planning the wiring from scratch.
>     BTW, the 'power line ethernet' is not very reliable. I have two
>     adapters which work poorly, with a lot of packet loss, if I plug
>     any of them in a power strip. If both of them are on wall outlet,
>     they work well.
>
>     On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:04 PM, Joe Wennechuk
>     <youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com
>     <mailto:youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         IMHO.....  Being that you're at the planning phase I would
>         suggest the extra money on Power over Ethernet gear. It works
>         very well, and provides much more flexibility of usage. It
>         will save many headaches in the future and will allow you to
>         position the wireless equipment it the optimum position.
>         I have found Mikrotik gear to be extremely well made,
>         reliable, and mostly for me cheap! And just using an rj-45
>         with out a power brick, module, and outlet necessity very nice
>         indeed.
>
>         http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:PoE-Out
>
>         I LOVE of the mikrotik monitoring and discovery tools,
>         especially the "Dude"
>
>         > From: aklists at mixdown.ca <mailto:aklists at mixdown.ca>
>         > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:31:39 -0400
>         > To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org <mailto:kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
>         > Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
>         >
>         > > On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:59 PM, B. S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca
>         <mailto:bs27975 at yahoo.ca>> wrote:
>         > > And ... just in case ... don't forget, you'll want plenum
>         rated cable, regardless of what you go with. (Heat/fire
>         resistance.)
>         > > (Dig into the kwlug archives within the last year or two,
>         search cat6, there will be a group of messages from Cedric
>         within that thread. It was good reading.
>         > > http://kwlug.org/pipermail/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org/ )
>         >
>         > It was actually a kwartzlab post. I dug through and found
>         it:
>         http://kwartzlab.ca/pipermail/discuss_kwartzlab.ca/2012-September/001193.html
>         >
>         > I?m looking at building a house and to be honest, I?m far
>         more inclined to put cat5e throughout. Any truly long runs
>         (say over 50m) would be cat6, but my intention would be to
>         install a 3? metal conduit going from the basement electrical
>         room to the attic (and another from the basement to some
>         central location on the main floor), and then requiring ANY
>         non-power cabling to be run through them. I am not sure if I?d
>         buy some 1/2? plastic conduit to run inside the walls of a
>         given level or not (i.e. from the central conduit to a
>         specific outlet) but I would ask that all non-power wires be
>         left loose in the walls so I could more easily pull new
>         cabling if the need arose.
>         >
>         > Using a metal conduit between floors might even alleviate
>         the need for plenum-rated cable, although to be honest most
>         solid core cable is plenum-rated anyway. You can find 1000
>         foot boxes of plenum rated, solid core cat5e for about $45 on
>         amazon, and I?d also check with local contractor outlets like
>         Graybar to see what they can do (since you wouldn?t have to
>         pay for shipping).
>         >
>         > -A.
>         >
>         >
>         >
>         > _______________________________________________
>         > kwlug-disc mailing list
>         > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org <mailto:kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
>         > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         kwlug-disc mailing list
>         kwlug-disc at kwlug.org <mailto:kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
>         http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     kwlug-disc mailing list
>     kwlug-disc at kwlug.org <mailto:kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
>     http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org

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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Sun Jul 12 11:56:27 2015
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 11:56:27 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
In-Reply-To: <55A25B0B.5050103@rogers.com>
References: <CAPSd_uFjUbfszLN36ih4j8fTUF=qXtfUR6TdehiDVSd67Tixhw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1289368538.733796.1433973574476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<F2030138-D157-4870-A369-D13F9F9E97EC@mixdown.ca>
	<SNT149-W938A02DED3921A55C80786AF920@phx.gbl>
	<CA+LEaaqS8oA8Lm3koM7u1T3VP=yuXpvxisj0Lv2twY=j5ff-UQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKyYXOSWaEomkRPTsTDeLa=sZrUHhNFb7zT1MRo2h_uzMO=4LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A25B0B.5050103@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20150712155627.5611605.66448.419@yahoo.ca>

?Well, what's the make/model? And, is it reliable after awhile? I tried TP-Link and it works at first, but you have to unplug/plug it VERY frequently. So, I ended up running wire, duct taping it along the way.?
--?
William

Sent?from?my?BlackBerry?10?smartphone?on?the Rogers?network.
? Original Message ?
From: Sandeep Johri
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 8:18 AM
To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
Reply To: KWLUG discussion
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W

This may be slightly off topic however thought I'd add my 2 cents regarding my sucess with Powerline Adapters. 

My cable modem / router is in our basement and the bedroom upstairs gets no / a very weak wifi signal.? As a result I opted for powerline adapters.? Initially the broadband speed I'd get was 1/10th of the speed that I'd get on pc's connected directly to the cable modem.? However the following tweaks have helped improve that to 1/3rd of that speed:

1) Using a wall socket and not attaching the adpaters to a power bar.

2) Using that wall socket for the adapter only and not attaching any other gadget to the spare outlet.

3) Using the wall socket that is closest to the breaker switchboard.? My bedroom and the basement are on different circuits as a result being close to the switchboard helps ensure the signals travel the shortest distance.

The above has resulted in my needing to run a 20' to 30' ethernet cable from my pc to the powerline adapter however the improvement in signal strength as been worth it.? There are several articles like this one that suggest ways to improve powerline adapter performance.? Additionally for the things I do at home (e.g. streaming movies / songs from my 'basement' pc, sharing files), I find them to be reliable.

Thanks
Sandeep
From:
Sandeep Johri
On 08/07/15 09:35 AM, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
I can confirm that power line ethernet is still a long ways from reliable.? I had some d-link adapters a few years ago and couldn't even get them to talk to each other.

PoE, on the other hand, is something else altogether.? The VoIP system we use at work depends on PoE switches to light up the phones.? Every time we install the VoIP in a remote office we need to replace the existing switches with PoE equipment.


On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 at 09:25 Raymond Chen <raymondchen625 at gmail.com> wrote:
At first I thought Joe was talking about power line ethernet. After some study it turned out to be another thing. I guess Power over Ethernet is cool, if we are planning the wiring from scratch. BTW, the 'power line ethernet' is not very reliable. I have two adapters which work poorly, with a lot of packet loss, if I plug any of them in a power strip. If both of them are on wall outlet, they work well.?

On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:04 PM, Joe Wennechuk <youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com> wrote:
IMHO.....? Being that you're at the planning phase I would suggest the extra money on Power over Ethernet gear. It works very well, and provides much more flexibility of usage. It will save many headaches in the future and will allow you to position the wireless equipment it the optimum position.
I have found Mikrotik gear to be extremely well made, reliable, and mostly for me cheap! And just using an rj-45 with out a power brick, module, and outlet necessity very nice indeed.

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:PoE-Out

I LOVE of the mikrotik monitoring and discovery tools, especially the "Dude"

> From: aklists at mixdown.ca
> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:31:39 -0400
> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
> 
> > On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:59 PM, B. S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > And ... just in case ... don't forget, you'll want plenum rated cable, regardless of what you go with. (Heat/fire resistance.)
> > (Dig into the kwlug archives within the last year or two, search cat6, there will be a group of messages from Cedric within that thread. It was good reading. 
> > http://kwlug.org/pipermail/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org/ )
> 
> It was actually a kwartzlab post. I dug through and found it: http://kwartzlab.ca/pipermail/discuss_kwartzlab.ca/2012-September/001193.html
> 
> I?m looking at building a house and to be honest, I?m far more inclined to put cat5e throughout. Any truly long runs (say over 50m) would be cat6, but my intention would be to install a 3? metal conduit going from the basement electrical room to the attic (and another from the basement to some central location on the main floor), and then requiring ANY non-power cabling to be run through them. I am not sure if I?d buy some 1/2? plastic conduit to run inside the walls of a given level or not (i.e. from the central conduit to a specific outlet) but I would ask that all non-power wires be left loose in the walls so I could more easily pull new cabling if the need arose.
> 
> Using a metal conduit between floors might even alleviate the need for plenum-rated cable, although to be honest most solid core cable is plenum-rated anyway. You can find 1000 foot boxes of plenum rated, solid core cat5e for about $45 on amazon, and I?d also check with local contractor outlets like Graybar to see what they can do (since you wouldn?t have to pay for shipping).
> 
> -A.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org

_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc mailing list
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org

_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc mailing list
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org


_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc mailing list
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org






From colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 12 13:09:45 2015
From: colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com (Colin Mills)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 13:09:45 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <CAA=K3WdiRdTN1QRm+DAjB=nw3G0BYN64foO0Mkss6-2dXL-kqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACzt8WTwR5HEsE6uF-qZM+AvCdQKjdXH+9SJF-Z5ekRPzyAZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<559C3A97.8040205@sobac.com>
	<CAA=K3WdiRdTN1QRm+DAjB=nw3G0BYN64foO0Mkss6-2dXL-kqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACzt8WQneLNJ6BiMX0AvxiDfLGhqp5erCO3-Ovobiwr40XLxiQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have looked at potential dates and October 3rd seems to be the only date
that will work presently. If we can somehow incorporate SFD to that date it
could work but I dont know if thats possible. To be honest I am looking for
one talk in relation to the present schedule. Lightening talks as well. If
anyone can get a talk ready or would be willing to get a talk ready that
would be great. Thanks!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin J. Mills (cjm)
FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> Advocate

Software Engineering Technology
Second Year
Conestoga College
Canada

"makepkg, not war"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 11:54 PM, Darcy Casselman <dscassel at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>
>> 19 September is also the day for the Medieval Faire, Open Doors, Maker
>> Expo, and a bunch of other things in KW that really reduced
>> participation in SFD last year.
>
>
> If I'd caught the SFD connection earlier, I'd have suggested you register
> as a Maker Expo exhibitor for SFD.  Registration is closed, but we might
> still be able to find a spot, depending.  Exhibiting is free and so is
> admission.
>
> Darcy.
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
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From sandeepjohri at rogers.com  Sun Jul 12 17:26:47 2015
From: sandeepjohri at rogers.com (Sandeep Johri)
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 17:26:47 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
In-Reply-To: <20150712155627.5611605.66448.419@yahoo.ca>
References: <CAPSd_uFjUbfszLN36ih4j8fTUF=qXtfUR6TdehiDVSd67Tixhw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1289368538.733796.1433973574476.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<F2030138-D157-4870-A369-D13F9F9E97EC@mixdown.ca>
	<SNT149-W938A02DED3921A55C80786AF920@phx.gbl>
	<CA+LEaaqS8oA8Lm3koM7u1T3VP=yuXpvxisj0Lv2twY=j5ff-UQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKyYXOSWaEomkRPTsTDeLa=sZrUHhNFb7zT1MRo2h_uzMO=4LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A25B0B.5050103@rogers.com>
	<20150712155627.5611605.66448.419@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <55A2DB97.1070606@rogers.com>

I have DLink adapters (DHP-600AV).  I also have a TP Link adapter that I
use to connect a pc behind my TV (to smarten it up) so in a nutshell:

DLink - connected to the cable modem / router
DLink - connected to the bedroom PC (actually to a router and the pc is
connected to the router via ethernet cable)
TPLink - Connected to the pc behind my TV

Even though I've read that you cannot mix and match brands - the above
works fine for me.  With regards to a restart - I haven't had to unplug
/ plug these adapters for the past couple of months at least.  I have
had to restart my cable modem / router once during that period though. 

I am no expert so this may be a fluke - as a result I'm sharing as much
information as I can to help with your assessment.  Not sure if the OS
and how it interacts with the routers / adapters has anything to do with
it.  I use Manjaro and connect via ssh.

Sandeep

From:
Sandeep Johri

On 12/07/15 11:56 AM, William Park wrote:
> ?Well, what's the make/model? And, is it reliable after awhile? I tried TP-Link and it works at first, but you have to unplug/plug it VERY frequently. So, I ended up running wire, duct taping it along the way. 
> -- 
> William
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Rogers network.
>   Original Message  
> From: Sandeep Johri
> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 8:18 AM
> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> Reply To: KWLUG discussion
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
>
> This may be slightly off topic however thought I'd add my 2 cents regarding my sucess with Powerline Adapters. 
>
> My cable modem / router is in our basement and the bedroom upstairs gets no / a very weak wifi signal.  As a result I opted for powerline adapters.  Initially the broadband speed I'd get was 1/10th of the speed that I'd get on pc's connected directly to the cable modem.  However the following tweaks have helped improve that to 1/3rd of that speed:
>
> 1) Using a wall socket and not attaching the adpaters to a power bar.
>
> 2) Using that wall socket for the adapter only and not attaching any other gadget to the spare outlet.
>
> 3) Using the wall socket that is closest to the breaker switchboard.  My bedroom and the basement are on different circuits as a result being close to the switchboard helps ensure the signals travel the shortest distance.
>
> The above has resulted in my needing to run a 20' to 30' ethernet cable from my pc to the powerline adapter however the improvement in signal strength as been worth it.  There are several articles like this one that suggest ways to improve powerline adapter performance.  Additionally for the things I do at home (e.g. streaming movies / songs from my 'basement' pc, sharing files), I find them to be reliable.
>
> Thanks
> Sandeep
> From:
> Sandeep Johri
> On 08/07/15 09:35 AM, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> I can confirm that power line ethernet is still a long ways from reliable.  I had some d-link adapters a few years ago and couldn't even get them to talk to each other.
>
> PoE, on the other hand, is something else altogether.  The VoIP system we use at work depends on PoE switches to light up the phones.  Every time we install the VoIP in a remote office we need to replace the existing switches with PoE equipment.
>
>
> On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 at 09:25 Raymond Chen <raymondchen625 at gmail.com> wrote:
> At first I thought Joe was talking about power line ethernet. After some study it turned out to be another thing. I guess Power over Ethernet is cool, if we are planning the wiring from scratch. BTW, the 'power line ethernet' is not very reliable. I have two adapters which work poorly, with a lot of packet loss, if I plug any of them in a power strip. If both of them are on wall outlet, they work well. 
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:04 PM, Joe Wennechuk <youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com> wrote:
> IMHO.....  Being that you're at the planning phase I would suggest the extra money on Power over Ethernet gear. It works very well, and provides much more flexibility of usage. It will save many headaches in the future and will allow you to position the wireless equipment it the optimum position.
> I have found Mikrotik gear to be extremely well made, reliable, and mostly for me cheap! And just using an rj-45 with out a power brick, module, and outlet necessity very nice indeed.
>
> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:PoE-Out
>
> I LOVE of the mikrotik monitoring and discovery tools, especially the "Dude"
>
>> From: aklists at mixdown.ca
>> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:31:39 -0400
>> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Best place to purchase Cat6 in K/W
>>
>>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 5:59 PM, B. S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> And ... just in case ... don't forget, you'll want plenum rated cable, regardless of what you go with. (Heat/fire resistance.)
>>> (Dig into the kwlug archives within the last year or two, search cat6, there will be a group of messages from Cedric within that thread. It was good reading. 
>>> http://kwlug.org/pipermail/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org/ )
>> It was actually a kwartzlab post. I dug through and found it: http://kwartzlab.ca/pipermail/discuss_kwartzlab.ca/2012-September/001193.html
>>
>> I?m looking at building a house and to be honest, I?m far more inclined to put cat5e throughout. Any truly long runs (say over 50m) would be cat6, but my intention would be to install a 3? metal conduit going from the basement electrical room to the attic (and another from the basement to some central location on the main floor), and then requiring ANY non-power cabling to be run through them. I am not sure if I?d buy some 1/2? plastic conduit to run inside the walls of a given level or not (i.e. from the central conduit to a specific outlet) but I would ask that all non-power wires be left loose in the walls so I could more easily pull new cabling if the need arose.
>>
>> Using a metal conduit between floors might even alleviate the need for plenum-rated cable, although to be honest most solid core cable is plenum-rated anyway. You can find 1000 foot boxes of plenum rated, solid core cat5e for about $45 on amazon, and I?d also check with local contractor outlets like Graybar to see what they can do (since you wouldn?t have to pay for shipping).
>>
>> -A.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org





From acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Jul 13 10:39:52 2015
From: acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Sullivan Cant)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 10:39:52 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150711053531.GE3845@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
	<CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
	<20150711053531.GE3845@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <55A3CDB8.9060809@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>

Paul,

Trying to consolidate the list of things that I think that kwlug.org
should do.

* event listings which include
  - announcement and description
  - pingback/webmetion about the meeting (e.g., microblogs by Bob to
    start with, and link backs to anyone else who mentions the meeting
    if we want to be fancy)
  - audio/video of the events
  - post-meeting notes (e.g., links to slides and presentation material,
    links mentioned during the event, questions that people thought
    were interest)
  - transcript (this would also be fancy given the amount of work it
    would take but valuable for search-ability and accessibility)
* contact information and links to other locations on the web
* guidelines for submitting and doing presentations
* aggregation of member blogs
* links to members and their published code
* links to other FLOSS groups in the region
* wiki section to be able to collect other information about FLOSS in
the region
* archived pages for the FLOSS Fund

I think that bostron.rb[1] is a nice example for a user group site.
Might provider some inspiration.

Andrew

[1] http://bostonrb.org/
	
On 11/07/15 01:35, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> 
> Come on, folks. So far it seems that the answer to the questions of 
> 
> - What is working?
> - What is not working?
> - What changes do you feel should be made?
> 
> is "the website is too dynamic, so please make it static and also set
> up a Gitlab instance to host the git repository to which you hand out
> keys"?
> 
> Clearly I did not frame the questions clearly enough.
> 
> - Paul 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 12:09:10AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
>> Oh dear, I think that I might have brainwashed Bob with talk of static web sites. :)
>>
>> Given that kwlug.org does not change that much, and discussion is handled in the mailing list it seems like a good option.
>> We could remove the general posting functionality, and just aggregate the FLOSS related blogs of members.
>>
>> Hubert mentioned this:
>>> One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
>>> repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
>>> Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
>>> the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
>>> to the repository.
>>
>> I think this would probably work well. I would pick Gitlab, just because they do actually release the code for their service.
>>
>>
>> Jekyll[1] is a pretty popular and would be a good option. I have been using middleman [2] for my personal site [3] and kwruby.ca [4], which are both still pretty simple. It seems like a good option too. They both have large collections of plugins.
>>
>> I have tried ikiwiki and found it fiddly, and eventually switched to middleman.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> [1] http://jekyllrb.com/
>> [2] https://middlemanapp.com/
>> [3] http://andrewsullivancant.ca/
>> [4] http://kwruby.ca/
>>
>> On 09/07/15 18:40, Chris Irwin wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Hubert Chathi <hubert at uhoreg.ca
>>> <mailto:hubert at uhoreg.ca>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     So I'm not volunteering for anything, but... ;)
>>>
>>>     On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:23:16 -0400, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca
>>>     <mailto:paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>> said:
>>>
>>>     > Another thing that is nice with Drupal is having multiple logins. I do
>>>     > not want to be the only person with commit access, because at some
>>>     > point other people will need to update KWLUG content.
>>>
>>>     > The third thing is that the content should be updateable by the web,
>>>     > because giving out SSH credentials like candy might not go over well
>>>     > with our generous webhosts.
>>>
>>>     One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
>>>     repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
>>>     Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
>>>     the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
>>>     to the repository.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ikiwiki is quite nice in this regard. You push to it (or configure a
>>> pull periodically via cron, etc) and it rebuilds static content via a
>>> git hook.
>>>
>>> It supports editing via the web, and supports comments. The http process
>>> commits them to git, which means you can fetch & merge them in your
>>> local copy.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Chris Irwin
>>> <chris at chrisirwin.ca <mailto:chris at chrisirwin.ca>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 


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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Mon Jul 13 13:49:38 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 13:49:38 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <CACzt8WQneLNJ6BiMX0AvxiDfLGhqp5erCO3-Ovobiwr40XLxiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACzt8WTwR5HEsE6uF-qZM+AvCdQKjdXH+9SJF-Z5ekRPzyAZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<559C3A97.8040205@sobac.com>
	<CAA=K3WdiRdTN1QRm+DAjB=nw3G0BYN64foO0Mkss6-2dXL-kqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACzt8WQneLNJ6BiMX0AvxiDfLGhqp5erCO3-Ovobiwr40XLxiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150713174938.GA3706@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>


Are you looking for talks on particular themes?

As far as I know nobody has volunteered to run with SFD in
Kitchener-Waterloo this year, so piggybacking off your conference
makes sense to me. 

- Paul 

On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 01:09:45PM -0400, Colin Mills wrote:
> I have looked at potential dates and October 3rd seems to be the only date
> that will work presently. If we can somehow incorporate SFD to that date it
> could work but I dont know if thats possible. To be honest I am looking for
> one talk in relation to the present schedule. Lightening talks as well. If
> anyone can get a talk ready or would be willing to get a talk ready that
> would be great. Thanks!
> 




From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Mon Jul 13 14:18:07 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B.S.)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:18:07 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <55A3CDB8.9060809@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <55A3CDB8.9060809@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <1090314060.1538350.1436811487893.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Excellent. Thanks for taking the time to note your thoughts / 're'examine what www.kwlug.org should be.

>   - transcript (this would also be fancy given the amount of work it
>     would take but valuable for search-ability and accessibility)


Seems to me I saw something a while back about YouTube now automatically generating closed captions, absent otherwise explicitly specified caption source.

Transcription (at this level?) is voice recognition?

Is there some FOSS out there to which a video is played to and a '.srt' auto-generated?

Never having done this sort of thing, perhaps it is a better init than starting from scratch? (Seems to me I've seen comments where trying to correct badly done voice recognition generated documents is so onerous that some preferred to start from scratch on their own / typing it all themselves.)


> * wiki section to be able to collect other information about FLOSS in
> the region


There's a wiki?

If not, it seems arguable that there should be.

It also seems arguable as to why limit it to FLOSS in the region, and arguable that it could be open to and replace member blogs? Making cross-linking (wikiwords / #hashtags?) easier, and perhaps even auto-cross-referencing?



----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Sullivan Cant <acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 10:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
> 
> Paul,
> 
> Trying to consolidate the list of things that I think that kwlug.org
> should do.
> 
> * event listings which include
>   - announcement and description
>   - pingback/webmetion about the meeting (e.g., microblogs by Bob to
>     start with, and link backs to anyone else who mentions the meeting
>     if we want to be fancy)
>   - audio/video of the events
>   - post-meeting notes (e.g., links to slides and presentation material,
>     links mentioned during the event, questions that people thought
>     were interest)
>   - transcript (this would also be fancy given the amount of work it
>     would take but valuable for search-ability and accessibility)
> * contact information and links to other locations on the web
> * guidelines for submitting and doing presentations
> * aggregation of member blogs
> * links to members and their published code
> * links to other FLOSS groups in the region
> * wiki section to be able to collect other information about FLOSS in
> the region
> * archived pages for the FLOSS Fund
> 
> I think that bostron.rb[1] is a nice example for a user group site.
> Might provider some inspiration.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> [1] http://bostonrb.org/




From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Mon Jul 13 14:32:44 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B.S.)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:32:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] 'Canned' talks viable as presentations?
Message-ID: <951225602.1514492.1436812364620.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Given the richness of youtube et al, a la old film nights, when local presenters run dry of material is such a source of material / 'presentations'?

Given the excruciating amount of work preparing presentation material takes, why reinvent the wheel / why not take advantage of what's out there?

There could be 'theme nights', and post-presentation local round table discussion, as was mentioned some are interested in seeing.

Off the top of my head, if you take the topic of 'backups' for example, even if only 'rsync', the useful graphics and/or animation showing replication out of box, perhaps even to off-site archive aging, would be quite onerous to author. And is probably already out there. Leverage it?

Just a thought. Especially for a local post-Q&A where people can help each other out with aspects some didn't quite get, debate merits, or whatever.

Andrew's coming talk on git minds me of the same. I'd bet there's good presentation material out there already, and graphically illustrating the concepts of distributed SCCSs ... we'll I'd find needing to create such for a presentation pretty intimidating.

Not to take anything from Andrew, as his talk seems well defined and constrained to his own experiences. Perhaps there's a larger theme of git and/or SCCS for a 'theme', if people are interested.




From youcanreachmehere at Hotmail.com  Mon Jul 13 14:31:15 2015
From: youcanreachmehere at Hotmail.com (Joseph Wennechuk)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 14:31:15 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] [kwlug-a er nj] Linux Conference Updates Updates a
Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP7D6F77E253525162D3532AF9C0@phx.gbl>

From my ALCATEL ONETOUCH POP D3

On Jul 13, 2015 1:49 PM, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Are you looking for talks on particular themes? 
>
> As far as I know nobody has volunteered to run with SFD in 
> Kitchener-Waterloo this year, so piggybacking off your conference 
> makes sense to me. 
>
> - Paul 
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 01:09:45PM -0400, Colin Mills wrote: 
> > I have looked at potential dates and October 3rd seems to be the only date 
> > that will work presently. If we can somehow incorporate SFD to that date it 
> > could work but I dont know if thats possible. To be honest I am looking for 
> > one talk in relation to the present schedule. Lightening talks as well. If 
> > anyone can get a talk ready or would be willing to get a talk ready that 
> > would be great. Thanks! 
> > 
>
>
> _______________________________________________ 
> kwlug-disc mailing list 
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org 
>

From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Mon Jul 13 18:01:06 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:01:06 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <55A3CDB8.9060809@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
	<CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
	<20150711053531.GE3845@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<55A3CDB8.9060809@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20150713220106.GB3706@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>



Do we feel strongly about doing the organization on Gitlab? If not I
can make a static page on the existing kwlug.org site where we can
consolidate this information.

- Paul 

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:39:52AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
> Paul,
> 
> Trying to consolidate the list of things that I think that kwlug.org
> should do.
> 
> * event listings which include
>   - announcement and description
>   - pingback/webmetion about the meeting (e.g., microblogs by Bob to
>     start with, and link backs to anyone else who mentions the meeting
>     if we want to be fancy)
>   - audio/video of the events
>   - post-meeting notes (e.g., links to slides and presentation material,
>     links mentioned during the event, questions that people thought
>     were interest)
>   - transcript (this would also be fancy given the amount of work it
>     would take but valuable for search-ability and accessibility)
> * contact information and links to other locations on the web
> * guidelines for submitting and doing presentations
> * aggregation of member blogs
> * links to members and their published code
> * links to other FLOSS groups in the region
> * wiki section to be able to collect other information about FLOSS in
> the region
> * archived pages for the FLOSS Fund
> 
> I think that bostron.rb[1] is a nice example for a user group site.
> Might provider some inspiration.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> [1] http://bostonrb.org/
> 	
> On 11/07/15 01:35, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> > 
> > Come on, folks. So far it seems that the answer to the questions of 
> > 
> > - What is working?
> > - What is not working?
> > - What changes do you feel should be made?
> > 
> > is "the website is too dynamic, so please make it static and also set
> > up a Gitlab instance to host the git repository to which you hand out
> > keys"?
> > 
> > Clearly I did not frame the questions clearly enough.
> > 
> > - Paul 
> > 
> > On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 12:09:10AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
> >> Oh dear, I think that I might have brainwashed Bob with talk of static web sites. :)
> >>
> >> Given that kwlug.org does not change that much, and discussion is handled in the mailing list it seems like a good option.
> >> We could remove the general posting functionality, and just aggregate the FLOSS related blogs of members.
> >>
> >> Hubert mentioned this:
> >>> One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
> >>> repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
> >>> Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
> >>> the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
> >>> to the repository.
> >>
> >> I think this would probably work well. I would pick Gitlab, just because they do actually release the code for their service.
> >>
> >>
> >> Jekyll[1] is a pretty popular and would be a good option. I have been using middleman [2] for my personal site [3] and kwruby.ca [4], which are both still pretty simple. It seems like a good option too. They both have large collections of plugins.
> >>
> >> I have tried ikiwiki and found it fiddly, and eventually switched to middleman.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> [1] http://jekyllrb.com/
> >> [2] https://middlemanapp.com/
> >> [3] http://andrewsullivancant.ca/
> >> [4] http://kwruby.ca/
> >>
> >> On 09/07/15 18:40, Chris Irwin wrote:
> >>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Hubert Chathi <hubert at uhoreg.ca
> >>> <mailto:hubert at uhoreg.ca>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>     So I'm not volunteering for anything, but... ;)
> >>>
> >>>     On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:23:16 -0400, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca
> >>>     <mailto:paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>> said:
> >>>
> >>>     > Another thing that is nice with Drupal is having multiple logins. I do
> >>>     > not want to be the only person with commit access, because at some
> >>>     > point other people will need to update KWLUG content.
> >>>
> >>>     > The third thing is that the content should be updateable by the web,
> >>>     > because giving out SSH credentials like candy might not go over well
> >>>     > with our generous webhosts.
> >>>
> >>>     One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
> >>>     repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
> >>>     Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
> >>>     the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
> >>>     to the repository.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ikiwiki is quite nice in this regard. You push to it (or configure a
> >>> pull periodically via cron, etc) and it rebuilds static content via a
> >>> git hook.
> >>>
> >>> It supports editing via the web, and supports comments. The http process
> >>> commits them to git, which means you can fetch & merge them in your
> >>> local copy.
> >>>
> >>> -- 
> >>> Chris Irwin
> >>> <chris at chrisirwin.ca <mailto:chris at chrisirwin.ca>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> kwlug-disc mailing list
> >>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> >>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> kwlug-disc mailing list
> >> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> >> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> > 
> 
> 



> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org


-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From youcanreachmehere at Hotmail.com  Mon Jul 13 18:43:50 2015
From: youcanreachmehere at Hotmail.com (Joseph Wennechuk)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:43:50 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Dealing with multiple locations tonight at working
	centre
Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP25133E11175D959E3CB59BDAF9B0@phx.gbl>

Off topic but I know someone from this list will know the answer.

I have it in my phone there was a tall at the working centre tonight about dealing with multiple locations, but I can't find out where I got that info from. Does anyone know if this is real? Or did I mix up dates or something.

From my ALCATEL ONETOUCH POP D3
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From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Mon Jul 13 21:27:04 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 01:27:04 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Dealing with multiple locations tonight at working
	centre
In-Reply-To: <BLU436-SMTP25133E11175D959E3CB59BDAF9B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU436-SMTP25133E11175D959E3CB59BDAF9B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOQQ3dmQPzRE6saXeQWUXGhwOSG8T_az32ahqXixH59y5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, there was a meeting tonight for the NPSA group, subject was remote
connections, I believe.  I couldn't make it either, unfortunately.

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 at 21:25 Joseph Wennechuk <youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Off topic but I know someone from this list will know the answer.
>
> I have it in my phone there was a tall at the working centre tonight about
> dealing with multiple locations, but I can't find out where I got that info
> from. Does anyone know if this is real? Or did I mix up dates or something.
>
> From my ALCATEL ONETOUCH POP D3
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
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From bjonkman at sobac.com  Mon Jul 13 22:02:29 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 22:02:29 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Dealing with multiple locations tonight at working
 centre
In-Reply-To: <BLU436-SMTP25133E11175D959E3CB59BDAF9B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU436-SMTP25133E11175D959E3CB59BDAF9B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <55A46DB5.5040000@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

It's the Non-Profit System Administrator's group, and we're sorry you
missed it...

Join the Meetup Group:
http://www.meetup.com/NetSquared-Kitchener-Waterloo/
Talk on the Discussion List:
http://thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/npsa_thinkers.org
Contribute to the Wiki:
http://sobac.com/wiki/index.php/Non-Profit_System_Administrators

We're not quite as sophisticated (yet) as KWLUG with its podcasts and
vidcasts and pub nights, but there should be meeting notes on the Wiki...

- --Bob.

Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA


On 13/07/15 06:43 PM, Joseph Wennechuk wrote:
> Off topic but I know someone from this list will know the answer.
> 
> I have it in my phone there was a tall at the working centre
> tonight about dealing with multiple locations, but I can't find out
> where I got that info from. Does anyone know if this is real? Or
> did I mix up dates or something.
> 
> From my ALCATEL ONETOUCH POP D3
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing 
> list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability

iEYEARECAAYFAlWkbbMACgkQuRKJsNLM5eosQACeO7G4a/1mdiHV+CIh0Y5iP4ql
0iIAoNVsrZlLMkXZKlJVtzjvpmLkipPb
=ummX
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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Mon Jul 13 22:04:06 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 22:04:06 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Dealing with multiple locations tonight at working
 centre
In-Reply-To: <CAKyYXOQQ3dmQPzRE6saXeQWUXGhwOSG8T_az32ahqXixH59y5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU436-SMTP25133E11175D959E3CB59BDAF9B0@phx.gbl>
	<CAKyYXOQQ3dmQPzRE6saXeQWUXGhwOSG8T_az32ahqXixH59y5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150714020406.GD3706@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>


You can sign up for notifications in one of two places: 

http://thinkers.org/mailman/listinfo/npsa-ann_thinkers.org

http://www.meetup.com/NetSquared-Kitchener-Waterloo/

Either will get you meeting announcements. There are discussion lists
and wikis linked from those pages.

- Paul 

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 01:27:04AM +0000, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> Yes, there was a meeting tonight for the NPSA group, subject was remote
> connections, I believe.  I couldn't make it either, unfortunately.
> 
> On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 at 21:25 Joseph Wennechuk <youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Off topic but I know someone from this list will know the answer.
> >
> > I have it in my phone there was a tall at the working centre tonight about
> > dealing with multiple locations, but I can't find out where I got that info
> > from. Does anyone know if this is real? Or did I mix up dates or something.
> >


-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 14 08:18:51 2015
From: colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com (Colin Mills)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 08:18:51 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Update
In-Reply-To: <20150713174938.GA3706@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <CACzt8WTwR5HEsE6uF-qZM+AvCdQKjdXH+9SJF-Z5ekRPzyAZPQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<559C3A97.8040205@sobac.com>
	<CAA=K3WdiRdTN1QRm+DAjB=nw3G0BYN64foO0Mkss6-2dXL-kqw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACzt8WQneLNJ6BiMX0AvxiDfLGhqp5erCO3-Ovobiwr40XLxiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150713174938.GA3706@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <CACzt8WT4xmjvBFOubEUzVKM-YfxAXXPTF1E3N8cXgcCO-mH6Zw@mail.gmail.com>

Anything in relation to file systems, networking, bash scripting, project
management, version control, programming or any other topic you would like
to talk about. Another option may be just using a talk from a future or
past KLUG. :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin J. Mills (cjm)
FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> Advocate

Software Engineering Technology
Second Year
Conestoga College
Canada

"makepkg, not war"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> wrote:

>
> Are you looking for talks on particular themes?
>
> As far as I know nobody has volunteered to run with SFD in
> Kitchener-Waterloo this year, so piggybacking off your conference
> makes sense to me.
>
> - Paul
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 01:09:45PM -0400, Colin Mills wrote:
> > I have looked at potential dates and October 3rd seems to be the only
> date
> > that will work presently. If we can somehow incorporate SFD to that date
> it
> > could work but I dont know if thats possible. To be honest I am looking
> for
> > one talk in relation to the present schedule. Lightening talks as well.
> If
> > anyone can get a talk ready or would be willing to get a talk ready that
> > would be great. Thanks!
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
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From acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Jul 14 15:03:07 2015
From: acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Sullivan Cant)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 15:03:07 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150713220106.GB3706@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
	<CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
	<20150711053531.GE3845@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<55A3CDB8.9060809@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
	<20150713220106.GB3706@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <55A55CEB.3000505@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>

Not me. It's there if we start writing code and need a place to keep it.

Andrew


On 13/07/15 18:01, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> 
> 
> Do we feel strongly about doing the organization on Gitlab? If not I
> can make a static page on the existing kwlug.org site where we can
> consolidate this information.
> 
> - Paul 
> 
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:39:52AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
>> Paul,
>>
>> Trying to consolidate the list of things that I think that kwlug.org
>> should do.
>>
>> * event listings which include
>>   - announcement and description
>>   - pingback/webmetion about the meeting (e.g., microblogs by Bob to
>>     start with, and link backs to anyone else who mentions the meeting
>>     if we want to be fancy)
>>   - audio/video of the events
>>   - post-meeting notes (e.g., links to slides and presentation material,
>>     links mentioned during the event, questions that people thought
>>     were interest)
>>   - transcript (this would also be fancy given the amount of work it
>>     would take but valuable for search-ability and accessibility)
>> * contact information and links to other locations on the web
>> * guidelines for submitting and doing presentations
>> * aggregation of member blogs
>> * links to members and their published code
>> * links to other FLOSS groups in the region
>> * wiki section to be able to collect other information about FLOSS in
>> the region
>> * archived pages for the FLOSS Fund
>>
>> I think that bostron.rb[1] is a nice example for a user group site.
>> Might provider some inspiration.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> [1] http://bostonrb.org/
>> 	
>> On 11/07/15 01:35, Paul Nijjar wrote:
>>>
>>> Come on, folks. So far it seems that the answer to the questions of 
>>>
>>> - What is working?
>>> - What is not working?
>>> - What changes do you feel should be made?
>>>
>>> is "the website is too dynamic, so please make it static and also set
>>> up a Gitlab instance to host the git repository to which you hand out
>>> keys"?
>>>
>>> Clearly I did not frame the questions clearly enough.
>>>
>>> - Paul 
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 12:09:10AM -0400, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
>>>> Oh dear, I think that I might have brainwashed Bob with talk of static web sites. :)
>>>>
>>>> Given that kwlug.org does not change that much, and discussion is handled in the mailing list it seems like a good option.
>>>> We could remove the general posting functionality, and just aggregate the FLOSS related blogs of members.
>>>>
>>>> Hubert mentioned this:
>>>>> One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
>>>>> repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
>>>>> Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
>>>>> the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
>>>>> to the repository.
>>>>
>>>> I think this would probably work well. I would pick Gitlab, just because they do actually release the code for their service.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jekyll[1] is a pretty popular and would be a good option. I have been using middleman [2] for my personal site [3] and kwruby.ca [4], which are both still pretty simple. It seems like a good option too. They both have large collections of plugins.
>>>>
>>>> I have tried ikiwiki and found it fiddly, and eventually switched to middleman.
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://jekyllrb.com/
>>>> [2] https://middlemanapp.com/
>>>> [3] http://andrewsullivancant.ca/
>>>> [4] http://kwruby.ca/
>>>>
>>>> On 09/07/15 18:40, Chris Irwin wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Hubert Chathi <hubert at uhoreg.ca
>>>>> <mailto:hubert at uhoreg.ca>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     So I'm not volunteering for anything, but... ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>     On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 14:23:16 -0400, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca
>>>>>     <mailto:paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>     > Another thing that is nice with Drupal is having multiple logins. I do
>>>>>     > not want to be the only person with commit access, because at some
>>>>>     > point other people will need to update KWLUG content.
>>>>>
>>>>>     > The third thing is that the content should be updateable by the web,
>>>>>     > because giving out SSH credentials like candy might not go over well
>>>>>     > with our generous webhosts.
>>>>>
>>>>>     One way to get all that with a static site generator is to set up a git
>>>>>     repository on github/gitlab/etc., and give several people write access.
>>>>>     Then you can set up a hook that will tell the web server to pull from
>>>>>     the git repository and rebuild the site every time someone does a push
>>>>>     to the repository.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ikiwiki is quite nice in this regard. You push to it (or configure a
>>>>> pull periodically via cron, etc) and it rebuilds static content via a
>>>>> git hook.
>>>>>
>>>>> It supports editing via the web, and supports comments. The http process
>>>>> commits them to git, which means you can fetch & merge them in your
>>>>> local copy.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Chris Irwin
>>>>> <chris at chrisirwin.ca <mailto:chris at chrisirwin.ca>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>>>>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>>>>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>>>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>>>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
> 


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From acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Jul 14 15:10:25 2015
From: acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Sullivan Cant)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 15:10:25 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <1090314060.1538350.1436811487893.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <55A3CDB8.9060809@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
	<1090314060.1538350.1436811487893.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55A55EA1.9080203@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>

On 13/07/15 14:18, B.S. wrote:
> Excellent. Thanks for taking the time to note your thoughts / 're'examine what www.kwlug.org should be.
> 
>>   - transcript (this would also be fancy given the amount of work it
>>     would take but valuable for search-ability and accessibility)
> 
> 
> Seems to me I saw something a while back about YouTube now automatically generating closed captions, absent otherwise explicitly specified caption source.
> 
> Transcription (at this level?) is voice recognition?
> 
> Is there some FOSS out there to which a video is played to and a '.srt' auto-generated?
> 
> Never having done this sort of thing, perhaps it is a better init than starting from scratch? (Seems to me I've seen comments where trying to correct badly done voice recognition generated documents is so onerous that some preferred to start from scratch on their own / typing it all themselves.)

I have no idea. :) This is very much at the level of nice to have
research project. And we have to get the video/audio handling work
before even thing about transcriptions.

> 
> 
>> * wiki section to be able to collect other information about FLOSS in
>> the region
> 
> 
> There's a wiki?
> 
> If not, it seems arguable that there should be.
> 
> It also seems arguable as to why limit it to FLOSS in the region, and arguable that it could be open to and replace member blogs? Making cross-linking (wikiwords / #hashtags?) easier, and perhaps even auto-cross-referencing?
> 

Currently we can add static pages to the Drupal site, but it does not
handle any of the automatic linking that would usually be associated
with a wiki.

Andrew

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From jvj at golden.net  Tue Jul 14 16:32:01 2015
From: jvj at golden.net (John Johnson)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 16:32:01 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>	<CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <55A571C1.8060806@golden.net>

On 2015-07-11 00:09, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
> Given that kwlug.org does not change that much, and discussion is handled in the mailing list it seems like a good option.
> We could remove the general posting functionality, and just aggregate the FLOSS related blogs of members.
>    
<BUZZZZZZ>
More than once I have referred to my own contributions in the member's 
blog area.
And I am certainly far from a prolific contributor.

I have also reviewed contributions from others.

I, for one, would like to see the member blogs remain - in one form or 
another.

JohnJ





From bjonkman at sobac.com  Tue Jul 14 23:24:31 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:24:31 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] System Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner,
	31 July 2015 [bjns]
Message-ID: <55A5D26F.1010908@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Everybody!

System Administrator Appreciation Day falls on the last Friday of the
month every year, and is allegedly celebrated by users gifting their
SysAdmins chocolate cake and ice cream. Hands up, those of you who
have actually experienced that? Hmmm? I thought so?

Nobody appreciates System Administrators more than other System
Administrators, so for the last few years I?ve hosted a Systems
Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner. Last year we went to LaiLai?s,
and previously we?ve gone to Egg Roll King.

SysAdminDay is on Friday, 31 July 2015, just over two weeks away.
Where would you like to go this year? Potential venues must offer
vegetarian fare, and be physically accessible. Leave suggestions in
the comments of my blog post[1] or send me e-mail, then next week we
can vote. If there?s more than one candidate on the list we?ll rank
choices from 3 points (most favoured) to 1 point (least favoured), and
I?ll add them up, post the results on the blog, and we can all meet
for dinner.

SysAdminDay Dinner is open to everyone, whether you?re a System
Administrator, a SysAdmin Student, or a former SysAdmin who?s been
lured to the dark side. And also their friends, family, and end-users.
OK, maybe not the end-users. Unless they?re friends or family. :-)

See you on 31 July!
- -?Bob.

[1]
http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/2015/07/14/system-administrator-appreciation-day-dinner-31-july-2015/

- -- 

Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability

iEYEARECAAYFAlWl0msACgkQuRKJsNLM5erCBQCeKG/COKSA+WPVU31opcxN6x6z
eO8AoN8adNpDs60MtjFclYJi+zCuP650
=4eRp
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From jvj at golden.net  Wed Jul 15 00:39:02 2015
From: jvj at golden.net (John Johnson)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 00:39:02 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>	<CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <55A5E3E6.3030905@golden.net>

For future reference, I think that a short discussion of the tools 
mentioned below would be a good contribution to the member's blogs. I, 
for one, know very little of Jekyll and the others.
<hint>

JohnJ

On 2015-07-11 00:09, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
> I think this would probably work well. I would pick Gitlab, just because they do actually release the code for their service.
>
>
> Jekyll[1] is a pretty popular and would be a good option. I have been using middleman [2] for my personal site [3] and kwruby.ca [4], which are both still pretty simple. It seems like a good option too. They both have large collections of plugins.
>
> I have tried ikiwiki and found it fiddly, and eventually switched to middleman.
>
> Andrew
>
> [1]http://jekyllrb.com/
> [2]https://middlemanapp.com/
> [3]http://andrewsullivancant.ca/
> [4]http://kwruby.ca/
>    






From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 08:03:57 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 12:03:57 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] [Ubuntu-waterloo-region] System Administrator
 Appreciation Day Dinner, 31 July 2015 [bjns]
In-Reply-To: <55A5D26F.1010908@sobac.com>
References: <55A5D26F.1010908@sobac.com>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOQZjHStyb13QPWJCzN1T35HQDQfvbuWSQdafi0Y1R98Lw@mail.gmail.com>

Count me in!

Perhaps if we looked towards some sort of buffet place, where everyone can
pick and choose their own foods?

I think there's a new Chinese buffet on Weber near Lincoln, but I haven't
been there yet so I don't know if it's any good.




On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 at 23:25 Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi Everybody!
>
> System Administrator Appreciation Day falls on the last Friday of the
> month every year, and is allegedly celebrated by users gifting their
> SysAdmins chocolate cake and ice cream. Hands up, those of you who
> have actually experienced that? Hmmm? I thought so?
>
> Nobody appreciates System Administrators more than other System
> Administrators, so for the last few years I?ve hosted a Systems
> Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner. Last year we went to LaiLai?s,
> and previously we?ve gone to Egg Roll King.
>
> SysAdminDay is on Friday, 31 July 2015, just over two weeks away.
> Where would you like to go this year? Potential venues must offer
> vegetarian fare, and be physically accessible. Leave suggestions in
> the comments of my blog post[1] or send me e-mail, then next week we
> can vote. If there?s more than one candidate on the list we?ll rank
> choices from 3 points (most favoured) to 1 point (least favoured), and
> I?ll add them up, post the results on the blog, and we can all meet
> for dinner.
>
> SysAdminDay Dinner is open to everyone, whether you?re a System
> Administrator, a SysAdmin Student, or a former SysAdmin who?s been
> lured to the dark side. And also their friends, family, and end-users.
> OK, maybe not the end-users. Unless they?re friends or family. :-)
>
> See you on 31 July!
> - -?Bob.
>
> [1]
>
> http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/2015/07/14/system-administrator-appreciation-day-dinner-31-july-2015/
>
> - --
>
> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
> SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
> Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlWl0msACgkQuRKJsNLM5erCBQCeKG/COKSA+WPVU31opcxN6x6z
> eO8AoN8adNpDs60MtjFclYJi+zCuP650
> =4eRp
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-waterloo-region
> Post to     : ubuntu-waterloo-region at lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-waterloo-region
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
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From acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Jul 15 09:59:29 2015
From: acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Sullivan Cant)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 09:59:29 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <55A5E3E6.3030905@golden.net>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
	<CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca> <55A5E3E6.3030905@golden.net>
Message-ID: <55A66741.80004@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>

I will try to write up something about that over the weekend.

A very simple example of a static site is kwruby.ca, and you can see the
code here:
https://github.com/kwruby/kwruby.ca

It uses middleman instead of Jekyll, but they are pretty similar.
* write content (common in Markdown)
* execute the site build
* upload the resulting HTML to your webserver
...
* PROFIT!

The public webserver can be simpler and more secure because all it is
going is hosting static files.

Andrew

On 15/07/15 00:39, John Johnson wrote:
> For future reference, I think that a short discussion of the tools
> mentioned below would be a good contribution to the member's blogs. I,
> for one, know very little of Jekyll and the others.
> <hint>
> 
> JohnJ
> 
> On 2015-07-11 00:09, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
>> I think this would probably work well. I would pick Gitlab, just
>> because they do actually release the code for their service.
>>
>>
>> Jekyll[1] is a pretty popular and would be a good option. I have been
>> using middleman [2] for my personal site [3] and kwruby.ca [4], which
>> are both still pretty simple. It seems like a good option too. They
>> both have large collections of plugins.
>>
>> I have tried ikiwiki and found it fiddly, and eventually switched to
>> middleman.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> [1]http://jekyllrb.com/
>> [2]https://middlemanapp.com/
>> [3]http://andrewsullivancant.ca/
>> [4]http://kwruby.ca/
>>    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org


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From acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Jul 15 10:08:21 2015
From: acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca (Andrew Sullivan Cant)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 10:08:21 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <55A571C1.8060806@golden.net>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>
	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
	<CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca> <55A571C1.8060806@golden.net>
Message-ID: <55A66955.3010504@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>

On 14/07/15 16:32, John Johnson wrote:
> On 2015-07-11 00:09, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
>> Given that kwlug.org does not change that much, and discussion is
>> handled in the mailing list it seems like a good option.
>> We could remove the general posting functionality, and just aggregate
>> the FLOSS related blogs of members.
>>    
> <BUZZZZZZ>
> More than once I have referred to my own contributions in the member's
> blog area.
> And I am certainly far from a prolific contributor.
> 
> I have also reviewed contributions from others.
> 
> I, for one, would like to see the member blogs remain - in one form or
> another.

John,

We should definitely preserve the existing KWLUG blog content, but I
would still like to stop the KWLUG site for being responsible for
creating new blog content. We have limited resources and time, and it is
just one requirement that makes the site harder to maintain.

And there are now lots of blogging options available, and ones which are
relatively FLOSS friendly. Figuring out how to advise and support
members who want a blog would be cool. Might be something that could be
outreach to non-members as well.

Maintaining a separate KWLUG blog site or some other distributed social
network type thing might also be interesting.
But I really would like to keep it separate from the code of the main site.


Andrew


> 
> JohnJ
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org


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From jvj at golden.net  Wed Jul 15 11:41:44 2015
From: jvj at golden.net (John Johnson)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 11:41:44 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <55A66955.3010504@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>	<CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>	<55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
	<55A571C1.8060806@golden.net>
	<55A66955.3010504@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <55A67F38.2060608@golden.net>

Noted.

And with respect to Paul's original question:

What changes do you feel should be made?

An easy-to-use member's blogging facility might make the member's blog area more useful with more contributions etc.

JohnJ

On 2015-07-15 10:08, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
> On 14/07/15 16:32, John Johnson wrote:
>    
< ... edit ... >
>> I, for one, would like to see the member blogs remain - in one form or another.
>>      
> We should definitely preserve the existing KWLUG blog content,
>    
< ... edit ... >





From bjonkman at sobac.com  Wed Jul 15 12:33:20 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 12:33:20 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] [Ubuntu-waterloo-region] System Administrator
 Appreciation Day Dinner, 31 July 2015 [bjns]
In-Reply-To: <CAKyYXOQZjHStyb13QPWJCzN1T35HQDQfvbuWSQdafi0Y1R98Lw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <55A5D26F.1010908@sobac.com>
	<CAKyYXOQZjHStyb13QPWJCzN1T35HQDQfvbuWSQdafi0Y1R98Lw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55A68B50.9010508@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

That sounds like Star Wok. The pictures on their web site look great!
I?ll add it to the list.

At the NPSA meeting on Monday somebody mentioned Lancaster Smokehouse.
Don?t know how it does for vegetarian food, but I?ll add it to the
list anyway.

- --Bob.

The List:
http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/2015/07/14/system-administrator-appreciation-day-dinner-31-july-2015/#proposed_venues



On 15/07/15 08:03 AM, CrankyOldBugger wrote:
> Count me in!
> 
> Perhaps if we looked towards some sort of buffet place, where
> everyone can pick and choose their own foods?
> 
> I think there's a new Chinese buffet on Weber near Lincoln, but I
> haven't been there yet so I don't know if it's any good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 at 23:25 Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Everybody!
> 
> System Administrator Appreciation Day falls on the last Friday of
> the month every year, and is allegedly celebrated by users gifting
> their SysAdmins chocolate cake and ice cream. Hands up, those of
> you who have actually experienced that? Hmmm? I thought so?
> 
> Nobody appreciates System Administrators more than other System 
> Administrators, so for the last few years I?ve hosted a Systems 
> Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner. Last year we went to
> LaiLai?s, and previously we?ve gone to Egg Roll King.
> 
> SysAdminDay is on Friday, 31 July 2015, just over two weeks away. 
> Where would you like to go this year? Potential venues must offer 
> vegetarian fare, and be physically accessible. Leave suggestions
> in the comments of my blog post[1] or send me e-mail, then next
> week we can vote. If there?s more than one candidate on the list
> we?ll rank choices from 3 points (most favoured) to 1 point (least
> favoured), and I?ll add them up, post the results on the blog, and
> we can all meet for dinner.
> 
> SysAdminDay Dinner is open to everyone, whether you?re a System 
> Administrator, a SysAdmin Student, or a former SysAdmin who?s been 
> lured to the dark side. And also their friends, family, and
> end-users. OK, maybe not the end-users. Unless they?re friends or
> family. :-)
> 
> See you on 31 July! -?Bob.
> 
> [1]
> 
> http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/2015/07/14/system-administrator-appreciation-day-dinner-31-july-2015/
>
> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ Mailing list:
>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-waterloo-region Post to     :
>> ubuntu-waterloo-region at lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe :
>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-waterloo-region More help   :
>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> 
> 
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From peter_melse at gto.net  Wed Jul 15 12:44:51 2015
From: peter_melse at gto.net (Peter Melse)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 12:44:51 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
Message-ID: <20150715164459797@smtp684.redcondor.net>

+1 for member blogging with a markup for code. Member specific rss might be cool too.

On Jul 15, 2015 11:41 AM, John Johnson <jvj at golden.net> wrote:
>
> Noted. 
>
> And with respect to Paul's original question: 
>
> What changes do you feel should be made? 
>
> An easy-to-use member's blogging facility might make the member's blog area more useful with more contributions etc. 
>
> JohnJ 
>
> On 2015-07-15 10:08, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote: 
> > On 14/07/15 16:32, John Johnson wrote: 
> >??? 
> < ... edit ... > 
> >> I, for one, would like to see the member blogs remain - in one form or another. 
> >>????? 
> > We should definitely preserve the existing KWLUG blog content, 
> >??? 
> < ... edit ... > 
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ 
> kwlug-disc mailing list 
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org 

From chaslinux at gmail.com  Wed Jul 15 13:53:46 2015
From: chaslinux at gmail.com (CHARLES MCCOLM)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 13:53:46 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
Message-ID: <afmrbp0sl9loq64myi6vqfqn.1436982826394@email.android.com>

You could reward contributions with Khalid user points module, give people ranks based on contribution (but no real heirarchy, or give them a badge for a certain amount of points). Blogging might count for a certain amount of points, approved comments other points, etc.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: John Johnson <jvj at golden.net> 
Date:07-15-2015  11:41 AM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> 
Cc:  
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist 

Noted.

And with respect to Paul's original question:

What changes do you feel should be made?

An easy-to-use member's blogging facility might make the member's blog area more useful with more contributions etc.

JohnJ

On 2015-07-15 10:08, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
> On 14/07/15 16:32, John Johnson wrote:
>    
< ... edit ... >
>> I, for one, would like to see the member blogs remain - in one form or another.
>>      
> We should definitely preserve the existing KWLUG blog content,
>    
< ... edit ... >



_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc mailing list
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul 15 14:26:50 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 14:26:50 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <afmrbp0sl9loq64myi6vqfqn.1436982826394@email.android.com>
References: <afmrbp0sl9loq64myi6vqfqn.1436982826394@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <20150715182650.GB3885@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>


Personally I am against that kind of evaluation. It is a lot of work
for little benefit. I would be impressed if anybody used the blogging
facilities on kwlug.org at all. (Having said that I am less against
the idea than Andrew, who has been mysteriously recruited into The
Conspiracy.)

I will try to get a wishlist page set up on the kwlug site this week
(I hope today, but you know me). 

- Paul 

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 01:53:46PM -0400, CHARLES MCCOLM wrote:
> You could reward contributions with Khalid user points module, give people ranks based on contribution (but no real heirarchy, or give them a badge for a certain amount of points). Blogging might count for a certain amount of points, approved comments other points, etc.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> 
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: John Johnson <jvj at golden.net> 
> Date:07-15-2015  11:41 AM  (GMT-05:00) 
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> 
> Cc:  
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist 
> 
> Noted.
> 
> And with respect to Paul's original question:
> 
> What changes do you feel should be made?
> 
> An easy-to-use member's blogging facility might make the member's blog area more useful with more contributions etc.
> 
> JohnJ
> 
> On 2015-07-15 10:08, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
> > On 14/07/15 16:32, John Johnson wrote:
> >    
> < ... edit ... >
> >> I, for one, would like to see the member blogs remain - in one form or another.
> >>      
> > We should definitely preserve the existing KWLUG blog content,
> >    
> < ... edit ... >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org

> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org


-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From kb at 2bits.com  Wed Jul 15 14:29:13 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 14:29:13 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150715182650.GB3885@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <afmrbp0sl9loq64myi6vqfqn.1436982826394@email.android.com>
	<20150715182650.GB3885@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW0FzpzD8M1_LXUvzFLs4q3ztoZZwzMprCvEmAUfibiHDQ@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Paul. If this was a site with tens of thousands of users,
and hundreds of thousands of page views per day, then yes. But given
the small community, this adds a lot of components and incurs heavy
queries for not much usage of such feature.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> Personally I am against that kind of evaluation. It is a lot of work
> for little benefit. I would be impressed if anybody used the blogging
> facilities on kwlug.org at all. (Having said that I am less against
> the idea than Andrew, who has been mysteriously recruited into The
> Conspiracy.)
>
> I will try to get a wishlist page set up on the kwlug site this week
> (I hope today, but you know me).
>
> - Paul
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 01:53:46PM -0400, CHARLES MCCOLM wrote:
>> You could reward contributions with Khalid user points module, give people ranks based on contribution (but no real heirarchy, or give them a badge for a certain amount of points). Blogging might count for a certain amount of points, approved comments other points, etc.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: John Johnson <jvj at golden.net>
>> Date:07-15-2015  11:41 AM  (GMT-05:00)
>> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
>>
>> Noted.
>>
>> And with respect to Paul's original question:
>>
>> What changes do you feel should be made?
>>
>> An easy-to-use member's blogging facility might make the member's blog area more useful with more contributions etc.
>>
>> JohnJ
>>
>> On 2015-07-15 10:08, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
>> > On 14/07/15 16:32, John Johnson wrote:
>> >
>> < ... edit ... >
>> >> I, for one, would like to see the member blogs remain - in one form or another.
>> >>
>> > We should definitely preserve the existing KWLUG blog content,
>> >
>> < ... edit ... >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
> --
> http://pnijjar.freeshell.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org



-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple,
and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken




From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul 15 17:56:30 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B.S.)
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 21:56:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <55A66955.3010504@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <55A66955.3010504@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <1767037998.1586976.1436997390800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>





----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Sullivan Cant <acant at alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 10:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
> 
> On 14/07/15 16:32, John Johnson wrote:
>>  On 2015-07-11 00:09, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
>>>  Given that kwlug.org does not change that much, and discussion is
>>>  handled in the mailing list it seems like a good option.
>>>  We could remove the general posting functionality, and just aggregate
>>>  the FLOSS related blogs of members.
>>>     
>>  <BUZZZZZZ>
>>  More than once I have referred to my own contributions in the member's
>>  blog area.
>>  And I am certainly far from a prolific contributor.
>> 
>>  I have also reviewed contributions from others.
>> 
>>  I, for one, would like to see the member blogs remain - in one form or
>>  another.
> 
> John,
> 
> We should definitely preserve the existing KWLUG blog content, but I
> would still like to stop the KWLUG site for being responsible for
> creating new blog content. We have limited resources and time, and it is
> just one requirement that makes the site harder to maintain.
> 
> And there are now lots of blogging options available, and ones which are
> relatively FLOSS friendly. Figuring out how to advise and support
> members who want a blog would be cool. Might be something that could be
> outreach to non-members as well.
> 
> Maintaining a separate KWLUG blog site or some other distributed social
> network type thing might also be interesting.
> But I really would like to keep it separate from the code of the main site.

I can appreciate where Andrew is coming from. A static site = K.I.S.S. I also note Khalid's comments that such functionality in Drupal is resource heavy.

However, I can also appreciate JJ's point.

Not advocating it in particular, but there are free wordpress sites available for individual member blogs. (Goes back to links / plugins / associations of/for kwlug.org removing the requirement for hosting / maintaining on kwlug.org itself. But requires a dedicated body of people to map / refer to such consistently on kwlug.org itself.)

However, disparate individual's sites would not be collectively treeable / searchable as kwluggers. And I think the lack would be a sad thing. Raul is a bad example, as he uses many mechanisms, but it would be pleasant to go to kwlug.org, search Raul, and have a list of hits come up. Khalid comes to mind as same, but I better know that he writes elsewhere.

That's not to say it couldn't be up to individual bloggers having to be responsible for maintaining links on their pages to their other mechanisms, but again this would also lose the cross-kwlugger searchability.

It does seem from the comments that even if dynamic blogging ceases, user single static web pages should be made available. Where, for example, they could put in such links. (Would also be a place to dump current blog entries into the static history referred to earlier.)

It also seems that mechanisms like wiki's would accomplish the same, maintain kwlugger treeability / searchability, while letting the main site / pages be static, and splitting off maintenance complexity to 'well known' (i.e. robust facilities, 'self-maintaining', and easily google'able due to critical mass / popularity) processes.

> Maintaining a separate KWLUG blog site or some other distributed social
> network type thing might also be interesting.


Seems really apt.

'Problem' is / goes back to ... 'social network type thing' doesn't seem to be any single other thing these days / any more. More likely a 'network' of 'things'. And links / cross references on the to become static pages of kwlug.org.


Given the pre / event / post meeting topic dynamism ... isn't static pages all but precluded? Posts of slides, meeting notes, follow up questions, and so on. So is the static / non line already crossed, and once crossed the Pandora's box of all these other questions / complexities is already inherently opened?

Mind you, a wiki would satisfy all of that as well. Leaving the 'rest' to be static? For that matter, the wiki could easily incorporate the static.


If the unix way is for each thing to do but one thing very, very well, is kwlug.org trying to be too many things to too many people? If the primary purpose of kwlug.org is a few static pages about the nature of the beastie, and 'events' (meetings, including pre and post material), solve the events dissemination with best of breed, then connect to adjacent best of breed functionality to satisfy additional requirements?




From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Thu Jul 16 05:21:26 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 05:21:26 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150715182650.GB3885@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <afmrbp0sl9loq64myi6vqfqn.1436982826394@email.android.com>
	<20150715182650.GB3885@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <20150716092125.GA30604@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>


Here is my attempt to summarize the discussion thus far (including my
own wishlist): 

http://kwlug.org/website-wishlist 

Also worth a read: http://kwlug.org/node/26

- Paul 


On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 02:26:50PM -0400, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> 
> 
> I will try to get a wishlist page set up on the kwlug site this week
> (I hope today, but you know me). 
> 
> - Paul 
> 




From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Thu Jul 16 06:31:03 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B.S.)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:31:03 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150716092125.GA30604@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <20150716092125.GA30604@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <1115128226.2078877.1437042663205.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

You have not noted that it is not an issue of static vs drupal (any version), but against any particular technology. e.g. wiki, which, as I understand it, would be about as close to the ease of access and multiple maintainability to static as is possible to get, except by actually being static.

If I understand the comments made to date correctly, you have asked what needs to change, and who will step up to actually commit themselves to performing the work. In large part there has been no wide based response (by dozens or more) expressing any particular wide range of desires. Comments seem mostly to surround "Don't remove <xyz>" and/or simplify some of the complexity, which seems to me accomplishable within the current framework.

Which would seem to say, for those engaged, it ain't significantly broken, at least to the extent of people willing to step up and do anything about it, so there is no apparent need to do anything at all.

If I read correctly, there is some issue of excessive maintenance requirements, however it seems there are two basic proposed solutions: (a) remove / simplify some complexity by replacing with static -content-; (b) inherently things like meeting details are dynamic, but that is the nature of the beast, and <x> amount of effort is required to maintain such content, regardless of the technology used.

So I'll ask: What deficiencies have been identified by others that must be addressed, and what is the minimum needed to accommodate such, within the current framework, or even not at all? Status quo appears to be satisfactory. Not withstanding unqualified and unquantified security and/or new version risks, to date providing no real impetus to do anything at all.

So, does it need to change at all? And who will step up to doing and maintaining such changes.

I am certainly not a sufficient web ecosystem expert nor a significant user of such things as social media to know what specific technology should be used, but the question is not merely one of drupal or static.

CDN$0.02



----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 5:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
> 
> 
> Here is my attempt to summarize the discussion thus far (including my
> own wishlist): 
> 
> http://kwlug.org/website-wishlist 
> 
> Also worth a read: http://kwlug.org/node/26
> 
> - Paul 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 02:26:50PM -0400, Paul Nijjar wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>  I will try to get a wishlist page set up on the kwlug site this week
>>  (I hope today, but you know me). 
>> 
>>  - Paul 
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 




From jvj at golden.net  Thu Jul 16 09:11:34 2015
From: jvj at golden.net (John Johnson)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 09:11:34 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <55A66955.3010504@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <20150707111028.GC3731@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>	<559C43D2.7030909@sobac.com>	<20150708182316.GB3771@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>	<87lhepw00u.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>	<CAH++cimY10-v-dxavheB-UPexviBke7EMABgbvNeLqSJ7FG7sg@mail.gmail.com>	<55A096E6.1060608@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
	<55A571C1.8060806@golden.net>
	<55A66955.3010504@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <55A7AD86.5080008@golden.net>

On 2015-07-15 10:08, Andrew Sullivan Cant wrote:
> We should definitely preserve the existing KWLUG blog content, but I
> would still like to stop the KWLUG site for being responsible for
> creating new blog content. We have limited resources and time, and it is
> just one requirement that makes the site harder to maintain.
>    
As one who has contributed to the member's blogs, I do not think that 
that the process was particularly onerous or difficult for me to do so.
I do not know what, if any, resources are required on the back-end to 
maintain the member's blogs.

BTW: My first contribution to the member's blogs was made in 2011 
following a suggestion by unsolicited to do so.
I collected some tips and advice from the list on setting up LAMP and 
put the these into a blog post.
An update to this blog entry was made in 2014.

JohnJ







From colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com  Thu Jul 16 10:05:05 2015
From: colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com (Colin Mills)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:05:05 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Call For Talks.
Message-ID: <CACzt8WTSnHCNwC7_f=7OPC5QD9JV2CzNaMVyGPxqi5xa3DBM-A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Everyone,

I apologize if this seems spam like, but I am still looking for a final
talk for the conference. I urge anyone who has an idea to come forward and
talk.

Another area where we still need some assistance is the lightning talks.
What I may do if we cannot get enough lightning talks is to have a round
table type conversation during lunch.

Thanks everyone! And I appreciate all the help that I've received!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin J. Mills (cjm)
FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> Advocate

Software Engineering Technology
Second Year
Conestoga College
Canada

"makepkg, not war"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From bjonkman at sobac.com  Thu Jul 16 10:17:55 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:17:55 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150716092125.GA30604@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <afmrbp0sl9loq64myi6vqfqn.1436982826394@email.android.com>
	<20150715182650.GB3885@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<20150716092125.GA30604@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <932ce374-f811-4d1d-921e-bcba5094d2a5@email.android.com>

> Also worth a read: http://kwlug.org/node/26

Interesting comment at the bottom of that page...

--Bob.


On July 16, 2015 5:21:26 AM AST, Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Here is my attempt to summarize the discussion thus far (including my
>own wishlist): 
>
>http://kwlug.org/website-wishlist 
>
>Also worth a read: http://kwlug.org/node/26
>
>- Paul 
>
>
>On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 02:26:50PM -0400, Paul Nijjar wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I will try to get a wishlist page set up on the kwlug site this week
>> (I hope today, but you know me). 
>> 
>> - Paul 
>> 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>kwlug-disc mailing list
>kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org


--
Bob Jonkman bjonkman at sobac.com
http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/bobjonkman
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From hubert at uhoreg.ca  Thu Jul 16 10:33:09 2015
From: hubert at uhoreg.ca (Hubert Chathi)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 10:33:09 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <1767037998.1586976.1436997390800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	(B. S.'s message of "Wed, 15 Jul 2015 21:56:30 +0000 (UTC)")
References: <55A66955.3010504@alumni.uwaterloo.ca>
	<1767037998.1586976.1436997390800.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87wpy0tboa.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 21:56:30 +0000 (UTC), "B.S." <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> said:

> However, disparate individual's sites would not be collectively
> treeable / searchable as kwluggers. And I think the lack would be a
> sad thing. Raul is a bad example, as he uses many mechanisms, but it
> would be pleasant to go to kwlug.org, search Raul, and have a list of
> hits come up. Khalid comes to mind as same, but I better know that he
> writes elsewhere.

> That's not to say it couldn't be up to individual bloggers having to
> be responsible for maintaining links on their pages to their other
> mechanisms, but again this would also lose the cross-kwlugger
> searchability.

Since several members have blogs hosted elsewhere already, if you want
to be able to search for kwlug-ers' blog posts, it might be better to
use something like Planet[1] to aggregate the blogs.

[1] http://www.planetplanet.org/




From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Thu Jul 16 22:26:23 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:26:23 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <932ce374-f811-4d1d-921e-bcba5094d2a5@email.android.com>
References: <afmrbp0sl9loq64myi6vqfqn.1436982826394@email.android.com>
	<20150715182650.GB3885@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<20150716092125.GA30604@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<932ce374-f811-4d1d-921e-bcba5094d2a5@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <20150717022622.GB3871@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:17:55AM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> > Also worth a read: http://kwlug.org/node/26
> 
> Interesting comment at the bottom of that page...

Fixed (?)

- Paul 





From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Thu Jul 16 22:39:03 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 22:39:03 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Call For Talks.
In-Reply-To: <CACzt8WTSnHCNwC7_f=7OPC5QD9JV2CzNaMVyGPxqi5xa3DBM-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACzt8WTSnHCNwC7_f=7OPC5QD9JV2CzNaMVyGPxqi5xa3DBM-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150717023903.GD3871@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>


I think I missed a memo. I am not volunteering a talk, so you might
want to ignore this message, but there are a lot of questions in my
head that are relevant to finding speakers: 

- Have you finalized the date to Oct 3?
- Have you finalized the location? Where is it?
- What are the hours of the event?
- How many other talks are there? What are the topics? How long are
  they?
- How long are lightning talks supposed to be? What is the format? How
  many are you looking for? Can they be about anything FLOSS-related?
- Do you have a website where we can see this information yet? (If not
  then that's fine, but it would be good to share some of that info
  out.) 
- Other than talks, what kinds of help are you looking for?


- Paul 



On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:05:05AM -0400, Colin Mills wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I apologize if this seems spam like, but I am still looking for a final
> talk for the conference. I urge anyone who has an idea to come forward and
> talk.
> 
> Another area where we still need some assistance is the lightning talks.
> What I may do if we cannot get enough lightning talks is to have a round
> table type conversation during lunch.
> 
> Thanks everyone! And I appreciate all the help that I've received!
> 




From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Fri Jul 17 22:51:53 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B.S.)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 02:51:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <20150717022622.GB3871@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <20150717022622.GB3871@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <1380697338.43042.1437187913421.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>





----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Nijjar <paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 10:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
> 
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:17:55AM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote:
>>  > Also worth a read: http://kwlug.org/node/26

This is actually a fascinating read, and particularly topical now. Thanks for posting the link Bob.

Fascinating as it's a look back in time to both the technology of the time and of the joint thinking of the time, individuals attempting to peer into their crystal balls. Thanks to all who participated and contributed. kwlug would not be what it is without you.

Not looking to debate, criticize, or reopen any of it, here - people did what they could and we're all better off for it.

Since then, though, books have 'gone away' (appears to be the major impetus for not choosing a wiki), and tags/categories have in practice substantially been irrelevant. [As opposed to taxonomy - elements have to be classified somehow, after all. I'm probably mixing tags/categories/taxonomy here - Richard can set me straight some day.]

So since then, how the website is actually used, as opposed to how it could, or could have been, used, is more apparent.

Seems like time for a repeat of that discussion. So time for Paul to call us together for an in-person out-of-band meet to do so?


I'll also pose a question:

What would make you use (or contribute/write? to) the website more?
- e.g. If it had <x> I would ...


Tickling my mind is better separated kw vs l (local area versus technical) in kwlug, but the tickle is too vague to be an answer to that question. For me, l is just the means I use for my kw. Perhaps kwlug could be more community centric than technical centric? If it's even reasonable to suggest that it is currently more the other way around? (Not rigorously so, I agree, and not looking for it to be so.) Given things like Android and OSM, all good stuff, perhaps being tagged Linux is a barrier / misnomer to the rich and wonderful community that it is, where no such barrier is actually present?


So ... what would make you use the website more? (Or what do you find missing from your web life that you could see it satisfying?)




From jvj at golden.net  Sat Jul 18 08:17:33 2015
From: jvj at golden.net (John Johnson)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 08:17:33 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Website Wishlist
In-Reply-To: <1380697338.43042.1437187913421.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20150717022622.GB3871@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<1380697338.43042.1437187913421.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55AA43DD.8090405@golden.net>

On 2015-07-17 22:51, B.S. wrote:
> What would make you use (or contribute/write? to) the website more?
>    
Currently, the member's blogs are a bit thin on content.
And as we know, there are many other sources of helpful tips, e.g. 
linux.org, stackoverflow, apachefriends.org, etc.

I do not think that the blogs should try to duplicate these sources but 
should try to be locally relevant and focused.

I tried to make my contribution member's blogs relevant, but these, too, 
suffer from the issue of maintenance, i.e. the info in my contributions 
is dated.

As for suggestions:

Having a precis (a summary or abstract of a text or speech) of a 
presentation in addition to that which may already be available in the 
meeting notices and meeting summaries might be a good addition to the blogs.

The meeting notices and meeting summaries - in archive.org - are not 
indexed by subject and the information within might be difficult to 
search through when looking for a given subject.
I looked for info related to the recent presentations of btrfs and found 
the same at kwlug.org/node/969 and kwlug.org/node/956.

Tip: archive.org allows searching on creator:'Kitchener-Waterloo Linux 
User Group' btrfs

I have taken the liberty of creating a simple blog post: Chris Irwin 
presents btrfs.

I will note, however, that the task of creating a blog entry with a 
precis of a presentation in addition to the actual presentation puts 
more on the presenters' plate.

JohnJ






From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Sat Jul 18 15:23:00 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 15:23:00 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day: no go
Message-ID: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>

I have been dropping hints about this in earlier threads, but now it
is official: The Working Centre is not intending to organize Software
Freedom Day stuff this year, and I am not going to be organizing
anything personally. That should not prohibit anybody else from
putting together a team and organizing an event.

Personally I think that joining forces with Colin's Linux Conference
makes a lot of sense. 

Having said that, if a team organizes something and is looking for a
space to run the event, then The Working Centre might be able to make
something available (no promises, though, and I think our preference
is not to host). If you are planning to do this then we would need to
know at least a month in advance, however. 

- Paul 

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From bjonkman at sobac.com  Sat Jul 18 23:24:22 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 23:24:22 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I was less
clear about my willingness to participate the organization of SFD this
year.

Having a venue is the most important part of SFD that's missing. As an
organization even less than "non-profit", but rather "no-money", a
Free-As-In-Gratis venue is important. So, is there anyone on the list
who is able to offer a venue? I'd really like to share with the Linux
Conference, if possible.

I expect we can scratch up some SFD presentations once a venue is
established. But if Colin is only looking for one more presentation I
can do the "What is Software Freedom" presentation and my best RMS
impression.

- --Bob.

On 18/07/15 03:23 PM, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> I have been dropping hints about this in earlier threads, but now
> it is official: The Working Centre is not intending to organize
> Software Freedom Day stuff this year, and I am not going to be
> organizing anything personally. That should not prohibit anybody
> else from putting together a team and organizing an event.
> 
> Personally I think that joining forces with Colin's Linux
> Conference makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Having said that, if a team organizes something and is looking for
> a space to run the event, then The Working Centre might be able to
> make something available (no promises, though, and I think our
> preference is not to host). If you are planning to do this then we
> would need to know at least a month in advance, however.
> 
> - Paul
> 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability

iEYEARECAAYFAlWrGGQACgkQuRKJsNLM5ep6SACcCLE+Bn3ie5hSE9R+F+Vhg2F9
1RoAn08jN/smRlcC8W/Rcc32USrhEv91
=/FGG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From kenhermanson at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 10:45:48 2015
From: kenhermanson at gmail.com (Ken Hermanson)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 10:45:48 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>
References: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>
Message-ID: <CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>

*Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, projector, etc.?*

On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I was less
> clear about my willingness to participate the organization of SFD this
> year.
>
> Having a venue is the most important part of SFD that's missing. As an
> organization even less than "non-profit", but rather "no-money", a
> Free-As-In-Gratis venue is important. So, is there anyone on the list
> who is able to offer a venue? I'd really like to share with the Linux
> Conference, if possible.
>
> I expect we can scratch up some SFD presentations once a venue is
> established. But if Colin is only looking for one more presentation I
> can do the "What is Software Freedom" presentation and my best RMS
> impression.
>
> - --Bob.
>
> On 18/07/15 03:23 PM, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> > I have been dropping hints about this in earlier threads, but now
> > it is official: The Working Centre is not intending to organize
> > Software Freedom Day stuff this year, and I am not going to be
> > organizing anything personally. That should not prohibit anybody
> > else from putting together a team and organizing an event.
> >
> > Personally I think that joining forces with Colin's Linux
> > Conference makes a lot of sense.
> >
> > Having said that, if a team organizes something and is looking for
> > a space to run the event, then The Working Centre might be able to
> > make something available (no promises, though, and I think our
> > preference is not to host). If you are planning to do this then we
> > would need to know at least a month in advance, however.
> >
> > - Paul
> >
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlWrGGQACgkQuRKJsNLM5ep6SACcCLE+Bn3ie5hSE9R+F+Vhg2F9
> 1RoAn08jN/smRlcC8W/Rcc32USrhEv91
> =/FGG
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
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From colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 14:28:43 2015
From: colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com (Colin Mills)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 14:28:43 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>
	<CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACzt8WTRM_ycfsoAuRNeNV9ybfHANT-BegEM4A_q5Zq=FM-2BQ@mail.gmail.com>

That would be perfect Bob! :). Thanks

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin J. Mills (cjm)
FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> Advocate

Software Engineering Technology
Second Year
Conestoga College
Canada

"makepkg, not war"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson <kenhermanson at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> *Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, projector, etc.?*
>
> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I was less
>> clear about my willingness to participate the organization of SFD this
>> year.
>>
>> Having a venue is the most important part of SFD that's missing. As an
>> organization even less than "non-profit", but rather "no-money", a
>> Free-As-In-Gratis venue is important. So, is there anyone on the list
>> who is able to offer a venue? I'd really like to share with the Linux
>> Conference, if possible.
>>
>> I expect we can scratch up some SFD presentations once a venue is
>> established. But if Colin is only looking for one more presentation I
>> can do the "What is Software Freedom" presentation and my best RMS
>> impression.
>>
>> - --Bob.
>>
>> On 18/07/15 03:23 PM, Paul Nijjar wrote:
>> > I have been dropping hints about this in earlier threads, but now
>> > it is official: The Working Centre is not intending to organize
>> > Software Freedom Day stuff this year, and I am not going to be
>> > organizing anything personally. That should not prohibit anybody
>> > else from putting together a team and organizing an event.
>> >
>> > Personally I think that joining forces with Colin's Linux
>> > Conference makes a lot of sense.
>> >
>> > Having said that, if a team organizes something and is looking for
>> > a space to run the event, then The Working Centre might be able to
>> > make something available (no promises, though, and I think our
>> > preference is not to host). If you are planning to do this then we
>> > would need to know at least a month in advance, however.
>> >
>> > - Paul
>> >
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
>> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
>>
>> iEYEARECAAYFAlWrGGQACgkQuRKJsNLM5ep6SACcCLE+Bn3ie5hSE9R+F+Vhg2F9
>> 1RoAn08jN/smRlcC8W/Rcc32USrhEv91
>> =/FGG
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
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From bjonkman at sobac.com  Sun Jul 19 14:37:41 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 14:37:41 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <CACzt8WTRM_ycfsoAuRNeNV9ybfHANT-BegEM4A_q5Zq=FM-2BQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>	<55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>	<CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACzt8WTRM_ycfsoAuRNeNV9ybfHANT-BegEM4A_q5Zq=FM-2BQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55ABEE75.4020007@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Colin: This is an off-list reply...

What part of my message would be perfect? Having the Linux Conference
venue available to Software Freedom Day?  Or just having me do one
presentation?

- --Bob.


Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA


On 19/07/15 02:28 PM, Colin Mills wrote:
> That would be perfect Bob! :). Thanks
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 
Colin J. Mills (cjm)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson
> <kenhermanson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> *Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen,
>> projector, etc.?*
>> 
>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman
>> <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>> 
> Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I was
> less clear about my willingness to participate the organization of
> SFD this year.
> 
> Having a venue is the most important part of SFD that's missing. As
> an organization even less than "non-profit", but rather "no-money",
> a Free-As-In-Gratis venue is important. So, is there anyone on the
> list who is able to offer a venue? I'd really like to share with
> the Linux Conference, if possible.
> 
> I expect we can scratch up some SFD presentations once a venue is 
> established. But if Colin is only looking for one more presentation
> I can do the "What is Software Freedom" presentation and my best
> RMS impression.
> 
> --Bob.
> 
> On 18/07/15 03:23 PM, Paul Nijjar wrote:
>>>>> I have been dropping hints about this in earlier threads,
>>>>> but now it is official: The Working Centre is not intending
>>>>> to organize Software Freedom Day stuff this year, and I am
>>>>> not going to be organizing anything personally. That should
>>>>> not prohibit anybody else from putting together a team and
>>>>> organizing an event.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Personally I think that joining forces with Colin's Linux 
>>>>> Conference makes a lot of sense.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Having said that, if a team organizes something and is
>>>>> looking for a space to run the event, then The Working
>>>>> Centre might be able to make something available (no
>>>>> promises, though, and I think our preference is not to
>>>>> host). If you are planning to do this then we would need to
>>>>> know at least a month in advance, however.
>>>>> 
>>>>> - Paul
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc
>>> mailing list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
>>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc
>> mailing list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing
> list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
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From bjonkman at sobac.com  Sun Jul 19 14:57:29 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 14:57:29 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>	<55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>
	<CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55ABF319.7020209@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 19/07/15 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
> Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, projector,
>  etc.?

In the past we've had up to 100 people come in to see some (or all) of
the presentations at SFD. It's been held at either Kwartzlab (both old
and new locations), or the Queen Street Commons Cafe along with an
installfest at Computer Recycling, across the road from QSC.

Last year's attendance at SFD was down considerably because of the many
other activities that take place on the actual SFD date (19 Sept this
year). Last year was also the first time we had workshops and a Free
Culture film festival at The Working Centre, also across the street from
QSC. It was especially disappointing because of the extra effort we put
into getting presenters, the workshops, and the film festival, only to
have what was probably the lowest attendance at SFD ever.


Here's what's needed: The presentations require a projector and screen,
with seating either formally theatre-style, or informally coffee-shop
style (I like coffee-shop style).  Workshops (if we're doing that)
require desk- or table-space with power and WiFi for people to work on
laptops; the installfest (if we're doing that) needs table space, power,
wired connection, and maybe the prep of a distribution repository
server. A Free Culture film festival (if we're doing that) needs
theatre-style seating and a projector & screen.

- --Bob.

Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA


On 19/07/15 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
> *Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, projector,
>  etc.?*
> 
> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I was
> less clear about my willingness to participate the organization of
> SFD this year.
> 
> Having a venue is the most important part of SFD that's missing. As
>  an organization even less than "non-profit", but rather
> "no-money", a Free-As-In-Gratis venue is important. So, is there
> anyone on the list who is able to offer a venue? I'd really like to
> share with the Linux Conference, if possible.
> 
> I expect we can scratch up some SFD presentations once a venue is 
> established. But if Colin is only looking for one more presentation
> I can do the "What is Software Freedom" presentation and my best
> RMS impression.
> 
> --Bob.
> 
> On 18/07/15 03:23 PM, Paul Nijjar wrote:
>>>> I have been dropping hints about this in earlier threads, but
>>>>  now it is official: The Working Centre is not intending to 
>>>> organize Software Freedom Day stuff this year, and I am not 
>>>> going to be organizing anything personally. That should not 
>>>> prohibit anybody else from putting together a team and 
>>>> organizing an event.
>>>> 
>>>> Personally I think that joining forces with Colin's Linux 
>>>> Conference makes a lot of sense.
>>>> 
>>>> Having said that, if a team organizes something and is
>>>> looking for a space to run the event, then The Working Centre
>>>> might be able to make something available (no promises,
>>>> though, and I think our preference is not to host). If you
>>>> are planning to do this then we would need to know at least a
>>>> month in advance, however.
>>>> 
>>>> - Paul
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc
>> mailing list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing
>  list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
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From bjonkman at sobac.com  Sun Jul 19 14:58:19 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 14:58:19 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <55ABEE75.4020007@sobac.com>
References: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>	<55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>	<CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>	<CACzt8WTRM_ycfsoAuRNeNV9ybfHANT-BegEM4A_q5Zq=FM-2BQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<55ABEE75.4020007@sobac.com>
Message-ID: <55ABF34B.7040007@sobac.com>

Except is wasn't an off-list reply. <sigh>

--Bob.


On 19/07/15 02:37 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> Hi Colin: This is an off-list reply...
> 
> What part of my message would be perfect? Having the Linux
> Conference venue available to Software Freedom Day?  Or just having
> me do one presentation?
> 
> --Bob.
> 
> 
> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413 
> SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/ 
> Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting 
> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
> 
> 
> On 19/07/15 02:28 PM, Colin Mills wrote:
>> That would be perfect Bob! :). Thanks
> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> 
> 
> Colin J. Mills (cjm)
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>  On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson 
>> <kenhermanson at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>> 
>>> *Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, 
>>> projector, etc.?*
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman 
>>> <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>>> 
>> Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I was 
>> less clear about my willingness to participate the organization
>> of SFD this year.
> 
>> Having a venue is the most important part of SFD that's missing.
>> As an organization even less than "non-profit", but rather
>> "no-money", a Free-As-In-Gratis venue is important. So, is there
>> anyone on the list who is able to offer a venue? I'd really like
>> to share with the Linux Conference, if possible.
> 
>> I expect we can scratch up some SFD presentations once a venue is
>>  established. But if Colin is only looking for one more
>> presentation I can do the "What is Software Freedom" presentation
>> and my best RMS impression.
> 
>> --Bob.
> 
>> On 18/07/15 03:23 PM, Paul Nijjar wrote:
>>>>>> I have been dropping hints about this in earlier
>>>>>> threads, but now it is official: The Working Centre is
>>>>>> not intending to organize Software Freedom Day stuff this
>>>>>> year, and I am not going to be organizing anything
>>>>>> personally. That should not prohibit anybody else from
>>>>>> putting together a team and organizing an event.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Personally I think that joining forces with Colin's Linux
>>>>>>  Conference makes a lot of sense.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Having said that, if a team organizes something and is 
>>>>>> looking for a space to run the event, then The Working 
>>>>>> Centre might be able to make something available (no 
>>>>>> promises, though, and I think our preference is not to 
>>>>>> host). If you are planning to do this then we would need
>>>>>> to know at least a month in advance, however.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> - Paul
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc 
>>>> mailing list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
>>>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc 
>>> mailing list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
>>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc
>> mailing list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing
> list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 

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From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Sun Jul 19 17:01:50 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 17:01:50 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Linux Conference Call For Talks.
In-Reply-To: <20150717023903.GD3871@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <CACzt8WTSnHCNwC7_f=7OPC5QD9JV2CzNaMVyGPxqi5xa3DBM-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150717023903.GD3871@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <20150719210149.GA17622@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>


Okay, I missed a memo. One of Colin's earlier emails had the answers
to my questions in an attachment: 

- The event will be from 9am-5pm.
- Full talks are an hour long. There are 6 of them scheduled, plus a
  keynote.
- Lightning talks are from 12pm-1pm (but I still don't know how long
  they are supposed to be). 

I still don't know: 
- If there is a website (I am guessing not yet)
- What other help Colin is looking for.
- Whether the date has been finalized as Oct 3.
- Whether the location has been finalized. 


On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:39:03PM -0400, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> 
> I think I missed a memo. I am not volunteering a talk, so you might
> want to ignore this message, but there are a lot of questions in my
> head that are relevant to finding speakers: 
> 
> - Have you finalized the date to Oct 3?
> - Have you finalized the location? Where is it?
> - What are the hours of the event?
> - How many other talks are there? What are the topics? How long are
>   they?
> - How long are lightning talks supposed to be? What is the format? How
>   many are you looking for? Can they be about anything FLOSS-related?
> - Do you have a website where we can see this information yet? (If not
>   then that's fine, but it would be good to share some of that info
>   out.) 
> - Other than talks, what kinds of help are you looking for?
> 
> 
> - Paul 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 10:05:05AM -0400, Colin Mills wrote:
> > Hi Everyone,
> > 
> > I apologize if this seems spam like, but I am still looking for a final
> > talk for the conference. I urge anyone who has an idea to come forward and
> > talk.
> > 
> > Another area where we still need some assistance is the lightning talks.
> > What I may do if we cannot get enough lightning talks is to have a round
> > table type conversation during lunch.
> > 
> > Thanks everyone! And I appreciate all the help that I've received!
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From kenhermanson at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 18:37:59 2015
From: kenhermanson at gmail.com (Ken Hermanson)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 18:37:59 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <55ABF319.7020209@sobac.com>
References: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>
	<CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>
	<55ABF319.7020209@sobac.com>
Message-ID: <CAMWWYCXMWw01bFX0gSvbgMRVWWc=zRnbpd_1AoTNZw21jVTjxw@mail.gmail.com>

*O.k., I'm a rookie at this. Your info. is detailed but not detailed
enough. It sounds like you need one largish room for the main presentation.
The projector and screen are no problem. Are the events sequential or
simultaneous? I'm assuming that you need smaller side rooms for the other
activities? I'm not familiar with the other venues that you've mentioned.
Maybe I should take a look at them. No promises, but I'll sniff around.*

On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 19/07/15 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
> > Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, projector,
> >  etc.?
>
> In the past we've had up to 100 people come in to see some (or all) of
> the presentations at SFD. It's been held at either Kwartzlab (both old
> and new locations), or the Queen Street Commons Cafe along with an
> installfest at Computer Recycling, across the road from QSC.
>
> Last year's attendance at SFD was down considerably because of the many
> other activities that take place on the actual SFD date (19 Sept this
> year). Last year was also the first time we had workshops and a Free
> Culture film festival at The Working Centre, also across the street from
> QSC. It was especially disappointing because of the extra effort we put
> into getting presenters, the workshops, and the film festival, only to
> have what was probably the lowest attendance at SFD ever.
>
>
> Here's what's needed: The presentations require a projector and screen,
> with seating either formally theatre-style, or informally coffee-shop
> style (I like coffee-shop style).  Workshops (if we're doing that)
> require desk- or table-space with power and WiFi for people to work on
> laptops; the installfest (if we're doing that) needs table space, power,
> wired connection, and maybe the prep of a distribution repository
> server. A Free Culture film festival (if we're doing that) needs
> theatre-style seating and a projector & screen.
>
> - --Bob.
>
> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413
> SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/
> Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
>
>
> On 19/07/15 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
> > *Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, projector,
> >  etc.?*
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I was
> > less clear about my willingness to participate the organization of
> > SFD this year.
> >
> > Having a venue is the most important part of SFD that's missing. As
> >  an organization even less than "non-profit", but rather
> > "no-money", a Free-As-In-Gratis venue is important. So, is there
> > anyone on the list who is able to offer a venue? I'd really like to
> > share with the Linux Conference, if possible.
> >
> > I expect we can scratch up some SFD presentations once a venue is
> > established. But if Colin is only looking for one more presentation
> > I can do the "What is Software Freedom" presentation and my best
> > RMS impression.
> >
> > --Bob.
> >
> > On 18/07/15 03:23 PM, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> >>>> I have been dropping hints about this in earlier threads, but
> >>>>  now it is official: The Working Centre is not intending to
> >>>> organize Software Freedom Day stuff this year, and I am not
> >>>> going to be organizing anything personally. That should not
> >>>> prohibit anybody else from putting together a team and
> >>>> organizing an event.
> >>>>
> >>>> Personally I think that joining forces with Colin's Linux
> >>>> Conference makes a lot of sense.
> >>>>
> >>>> Having said that, if a team organizes something and is
> >>>> looking for a space to run the event, then The Working Centre
> >>>> might be able to make something available (no promises,
> >>>> though, and I think our preference is not to host). If you
> >>>> are planning to do this then we would need to know at least a
> >>>> month in advance, however.
> >>>>
> >>>> - Paul
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc
> >> mailing list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> >> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing
> >  list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>
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> 3DUAn0lU93voXMwKTWV/9HRfGt0b1mvi
> =6sBO
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
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From bjonkman at sobac.com  Sun Jul 19 19:31:27 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 19:31:27 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <CAMWWYCXMWw01bFX0gSvbgMRVWWc=zRnbpd_1AoTNZw21jVTjxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>	<55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>	<CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>	<55ABF319.7020209@sobac.com>
	<CAMWWYCXMWw01bFX0gSvbgMRVWWc=zRnbpd_1AoTNZw21jVTjxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55AC334F.2010703@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Last year we had four simultaneous streams of events (see last year's
schedule at
http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2014/Canada/Kitchener/TWC#Schedule )

Going by the attendance at last year's presentations a small room for
20 people would be sufficient. That same size room would work for a
workshop with maybe 8 participants (four cafeteria tables). An
installfest tends to be big and messy and long, so a room that seats
50 people theatre-style might work for an 8 station installfest (eight
cafeteria tables).

But SFD can scale up or down depending on the venue available.  For
example, we could have only presentations in the morning, and a
workshop in the afternoon, or maybe an installfest in the afternoon.
Something we haven't done is lightning talks, which are only five
minutes long each. That gets in more talks, but not so in-depth as a
presentation with Q&A.

Once a venue is available we can figure out the format.

I'd put out a call for presentations, workshops and lightning talks
now, but if there's no venue there will be no SFD.

- --Bob.


On 19/07/15 06:37 PM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
> *O.k., I'm a rookie at this. Your info. is detailed but not
> detailed enough. It sounds like you need one largish room for the
> main presentation. The projector and screen are no problem. Are the
> events sequential or simultaneous? I'm assuming that you need
> smaller side rooms for the other activities? I'm not familiar with
> the other venues that you've mentioned. Maybe I should take a look
> at them. No promises, but I'll sniff around.*
> 
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>
> wrote:
> 
> On 19/07/15 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
>>>> Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen,
>>>> projector, etc.?
> 
> In the past we've had up to 100 people come in to see some (or all)
> of the presentations at SFD. It's been held at either Kwartzlab
> (both old and new locations), or the Queen Street Commons Cafe
> along with an installfest at Computer Recycling, across the road
> from QSC.
> 
> Last year's attendance at SFD was down considerably because of the
> many other activities that take place on the actual SFD date (19
> Sept this year). Last year was also the first time we had workshops
> and a Free Culture film festival at The Working Centre, also across
> the street from QSC. It was especially disappointing because of the
> extra effort we put into getting presenters, the workshops, and the
> film festival, only to have what was probably the lowest attendance
> at SFD ever.
> 
> 
> Here's what's needed: The presentations require a projector and
> screen, with seating either formally theatre-style, or informally
> coffee-shop style (I like coffee-shop style).  Workshops (if we're
> doing that) require desk- or table-space with power and WiFi for
> people to work on laptops; the installfest (if we're doing that)
> needs table space, power, wired connection, and maybe the prep of a
> distribution repository server. A Free Culture film festival (if
> we're doing that) needs theatre-style seating and a projector &
> screen.
> 
> --Bob.
> 
> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>          Phone: +1-519-635-9413 
> SOBAC Microcomputer Services             http://sobac.com/sobac/ 
> Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting 
> GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
> 
> 
> On 19/07/15 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
>>>> *Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen,
>>>> projector, etc.?*
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman
>>>> <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I
>>>> was less clear about my willingness to participate the
>>>> organization of SFD this year.
>>>> 
>>>> Having a venue is the most important part of SFD that's
>>>> missing. As an organization even less than "non-profit", but
>>>> rather "no-money", a Free-As-In-Gratis venue is important.
>>>> So, is there anyone on the list who is able to offer a venue?
>>>> I'd really like to share with the Linux Conference, if
>>>> possible.
>>>> 
>>>> I expect we can scratch up some SFD presentations once a
>>>> venue is established. But if Colin is only looking for one
>>>> more presentation I can do the "What is Software Freedom"
>>>> presentation and my best RMS impression.
>>>> 
>>>> --Bob.
>>>> 
>>>> On 18/07/15 03:23 PM, Paul Nijjar wrote:
>>>>>>> I have been dropping hints about this in earlier
>>>>>>> threads, but now it is official: The Working Centre is
>>>>>>> not intending to organize Software Freedom Day stuff
>>>>>>> this year, and I am not going to be organizing anything
>>>>>>> personally. That should not prohibit anybody else from
>>>>>>> putting together a team and organizing an event.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Personally I think that joining forces with Colin's
>>>>>>> Linux Conference makes a lot of sense.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Having said that, if a team organizes something and is 
>>>>>>> looking for a space to run the event, then The Working
>>>>>>> Centre might be able to make something available (no
>>>>>>> promises, though, and I think our preference is not to
>>>>>>> host). If you are planning to do this then we would
>>>>>>> need to know at least a month in advance, however.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Paul
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc 
>>>>> mailing list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
>>>>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc
>>>> mailing list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
>>>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc
>> mailing list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing
> list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability

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From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Sun Jul 19 23:18:35 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B.S.)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 03:18:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <CAMWWYCXMWw01bFX0gSvbgMRVWWc=zRnbpd_1AoTNZw21jVTjxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMWWYCXMWw01bFX0gSvbgMRVWWc=zRnbpd_1AoTNZw21jVTjxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1579204471.780741.1437362315345.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

This thread has become confusing. Perhaps it should be split out.

(1) Colin has a venue and a bunch of plans and expectations already in place. They may not yet be firm, formal, or documented, but evidently he is working through that. No doubt he will let us know more when he is able.

- to that end, Ken, hold off on what you're thinking, as I expect Colin will inherently provide whatever Bob needs since he has accepted Bob for his offered presentation. I expect Colin has or will have Conestoga A/V facilities available to him. e.g. Every classroom already has a screen, projector, sound, and so on and so forth. (Bob, if you haven't presented there before, their computers don't / didn't understand impress, but do have an ability to get sound/video from your own laptop, being on KVMs.)

- Colin, when you get that far: (1) Consider an installfest. Presumably in a cafeteria somewhere. It may not be large enough to be a 'fest', but volunteers hanging around to help people connect the dots / 'whats a distro, where do I get one, and what do I do with it' will be useful. For however few show up for such, vs those who know they can figure things out on their own. Having a computer/switch nearby for people to plug ethernet into and netboot into a distro install will be useful, or perhaps even to just ftp down an .iso or vm. I expect Paul / Bob / kwlug can help inform the what / how of such. (2) When you get that far, let us know how we can help. e.g. Door / fest / elsewise volunteers. For that matter a lab running a vm kiosk could be useful - there could be eclipse, blender, minecraft, grandpa (what you'd give your parents when their windows machine goes TU), and any number of things others can come up with better than me. Seems to me each vm choice has a library store out there somewhere. Try before you buy, as it were. Having a few booting usb keys to loan out within the lab may be an idea. Stick em on a string, and have ethernet cables lying beside the monitors in the lab. (I used to pull a lab computer's ethernet and video, stick them into my laptop, and get on with my day.)

Perhaps: 'Conestoga K-W Linux Conference 2015'


(2) Bob and Ken, or Bob in responding to Ken, is talking about a separate and separately located SFD that thus far has no venue / location, or date. It does not yet exist.  Should it come to exist, it may well be that that venue already has all necessary A/V in place. Could further discussion about such be split into a different thread than from Colin, and the two kept distinctly separate. For I'm getting fair confused and having problems following 'which is what talking about whom', at this point.

- given the conflicting events of the SFD date, perhaps it's worth scaling down SFD from the past and partnering with whatever kwartzlap is doing? 'IP Freedom Day', not just software, or hardware? Let alone kwartzlab hardware is probably a larger domain than the 'hardware' one expects when thinking computer centric.

Perhaps: 'K-W SFD 2015'


For that matter, for both ... a presentation such as Bob is offering seems *VERY* important, perhaps de rigeur. 'Freedom', in this context, is crucial to understand, never gets old, and no matter how many times I hear it or think about it I keep being startled at how it applies to areas I hadn't considered it in different contexts I experience.

>________________________________
> From: Ken Hermanson <kenhermanson at gmail.com>
>To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> 
>Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:37 PM
>Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
>
>O.k., I'm a rookie at this. Your info. is detailed but not detailed enough. It sounds like you need one largish room for the main presentation. The projector and screen are no problem. Are the events sequential or simultaneous? I'm assuming that you need smaller side rooms for the other activities? I'm not familiar with the other venues that you've mentioned. Maybe I should take a look at them. No promises, but I'll sniff around.
>
>
>On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>
>>On 19/07/15 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
>>> Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, projector,
>>>  etc.?
>>
>>In the past we've had up to 100 people come in to see some (or all) of
>>the presentations at SFD. It's been held at either Kwartzlab (both old
>>and new locations), or the Queen Street Commons Cafe along with an
>>installfest at Computer Recycling, across the road from QSC.
>>
>>Last year's attendance at SFD was down considerably because of the many
>>other activities that take place on the actual SFD date (19 Sept this
>>year). Last year was also the first time we had workshops and a Free
>>Culture film festival at The Working Centre, also across the street from
>>QSC. It was especially disappointing because of the extra effort we put
>>into getting presenters, the workshops, and the film festival, only to
>>have what was probably the lowest attendance at SFD ever.
>>
>>
>>Here's what's needed: The presentations require a projector and screen,
>>with seating either formally theatre-style, or informally coffee-shop
>>style (I like coffee-shop style).  Workshops (if we're doing that)
>>require desk- or table-space with power and WiFi for people to work on
>>laptops; the installfest (if we're doing that) needs table space, power,
>>wired connection, and maybe the prep of a distribution repository
>>server. A Free Culture film festival (if we're doing that) needs
>>theatre-style seating and a projector & screen.
>>
>>On 19/07/15 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
>>> *Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, projector,
>>>  etc.?*
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I was
>>> less clear about my willingness to participate the organization of
>>> SFD this year.




From bjonkman at sobac.com  Mon Jul 20 01:24:40 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 01:24:40 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <1579204471.780741.1437362315345.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAMWWYCXMWw01bFX0gSvbgMRVWWc=zRnbpd_1AoTNZw21jVTjxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1579204471.780741.1437362315345.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <55AC8618.2050508@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Colin has not (yet) offered a venue for SFD. I'm not sure what Colin
has accepted, whether it is my offer of a presentation on "What is
Software Freedom", or my request for an SFD venue. Ken, please
continue to investigate a venue for SFD.

If either Colin or Ken (or someone else) comes up with a venue in the
next week or so then there may be a Software Freedom Day in
Kitchener-Waterloo. If no venue can be found by the end of July then I
withdraw from the SFD organizing committee due to lack of remaining time.

I'm only doing one presentation of "What is Software Freedom", whether
at the Linux Conference or at a potential SFD. As was kindly pointed
out to me, I'm stretching myself very thin for the upcoming few months.

- --Bob, who wonders who else might be on the SFD Organizing Committee.



On 19/07/15 11:18 PM, B.S. wrote:
> This thread has become confusing. Perhaps it should be split out.
> 
> (1) Colin has a venue and a bunch of plans and expectations
> already in place. They may not yet be firm, formal, or documented,
> but evidently he is working through that. No doubt he will let us
> know more when he is able.
> 
> - to that end, Ken, hold off on what you're thinking, as I expect 
> Colin will inherently provide whatever Bob needs since he has 
> accepted Bob for his offered presentation. I expect Colin has or
> will have Conestoga A/V facilities available to him. e.g. Every
> classroom already has a screen, projector, sound, and so on and so
> forth. (Bob, if you haven't presented there before, their computers
> don't / didn't understand impress, but do have an ability to get
> sound/video from your own laptop, being on KVMs.)
> 
> - Colin, when you get that far: (1) Consider an installfest. 
> Presumably in a cafeteria somewhere. It may not be large enough to
> be a 'fest', but volunteers hanging around to help people connect
> the dots / 'whats a distro, where do I get one, and what do I do
> with it' will be useful. For however few show up for such, vs those
> who know they can figure things out on their own. Having a
> computer/switch nearby for people to plug ethernet into and netboot
> into a distro install will be useful, or perhaps even to just ftp
> down an .iso or vm. I expect Paul / Bob / kwlug can help inform the
> what / how of such. (2) When you get that far, let us know how we
> can help. e.g. Door / fest / elsewise volunteers. For that matter a
> lab running a vm kiosk could be useful - there could be eclipse,
> blender, minecraft, grandpa (what you'd give your parents when
> their windows machine goes TU), and any number of things others can
> come up with better than me. Seems to me each vm choice has a
> library store out th
> 
> Perhaps: 'Conestoga K-W Linux Conference 2015'
> 
> 
> (2) Bob and Ken, or Bob in responding to Ken, is talking about a 
> separate and separately located SFD that thus far has no venue / 
> location, or date. It does not yet exist.  Should it come to
> exist, it may well be that that venue already has all necessary A/V
> in place. Could further discussion about such be split into a
> different thread than from Colin, and the two kept distinctly
> separate. For I'm getting fair confused and having problems
> following 'which is what talking about whom', at this point.
> 
> - given the conflicting events of the SFD date, perhaps it's worth 
> scaling down SFD from the past and partnering with whatever
> kwartzlap is doing? 'IP Freedom Day', not just software, or
> hardware? Let alone kwartzlab hardware is probably a larger domain
> than the 'hardware' one expects when thinking computer centric.
> 
> Perhaps: 'K-W SFD 2015'
> 
> 
> For that matter, for both ... a presentation such as Bob is
> offering seems *VERY* important, perhaps de rigeur. 'Freedom', in
> this context, is crucial to understand, never gets old, and no
> matter how many times I hear it or think about it I keep being
> startled at how it applies to areas I hadn't considered it in
> different contexts I experience.
> 
>> ________________________________ From: Ken Hermanson 
>> <kenhermanson at gmail.com> To: KWLUG discussion 
>> <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
>> 
>> O.k., I'm a rookie at this. Your info. is detailed but not
>> detailed enough. It sounds like you need one largish room for the
>> main presentation. The projector and screen are no problem. Are
>> the events sequential or simultaneous? I'm assuming that you
>> need smaller side rooms for the other activities? I'm not
>> familiar with the other venues that you've mentioned. Maybe I
>> should take a look at them. No promises, but I'll sniff around.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Bob Jonkman
>> <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 19/07/15 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
>>>> Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, 
>>>> projector, etc.?
>>> 
>>> In the past we've had up to 100 people come in to see some (or 
>>> all) of the presentations at SFD. It's been held at either 
>>> Kwartzlab (both old and new locations), or the Queen Street 
>>> Commons Cafe along with an installfest at Computer Recycling, 
>>> across the road from QSC.
>>> 
>>> Last year's attendance at SFD was down considerably because of 
>>> the many other activities that take place on the actual SFD
>>> date (19 Sept this year). Last year was also the first time we
>>> had workshops and a Free Culture film festival at The Working
>>> Centre, also across the street from QSC. It was especially
>>> disappointing because of the extra effort we put into getting
>>> presenters, the workshops, and the film festival, only to have
>>> what was probably the lowest attendance at SFD ever.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Here's what's needed: The presentations require a projector
>>> and screen, with seating either formally theatre-style, or
>>> informally coffee-shop style (I like coffee-shop style).
>>> Workshops (if we're doing that) require desk- or table-space
>>> with power and WiFi for people to work on laptops; the
>>> installfest (if we're doing that) needs table space, power,
>>> wired connection, and maybe the prep of a distribution
>>> repository server. A Free Culture film festival (if we're doing
>>> that) needs theatre-style seating and a projector & screen.
>>> 
>>> On 19/07/15 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
>>>> *Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, 
>>>> projector, etc.?*
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman 
>>>> <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I 
>>>> was less clear about my willingness to participate the 
>>>> organization of SFD this year.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing 
> list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
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From youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 21 06:52:32 2015
From: youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com (Joe Wennechuk)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 06:52:32 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>,
	<55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>,
	<CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT149-W61F7EAEAE78CE10513C551AF840@phx.gbl>

I have a very nice projector i could loan out... It is a Mitsubishi xl5980lu. Message me off list for arrangements.  

Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 10:45:48 -0400
From: kenhermanson at gmail.com
To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day


Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, projector, etc.?
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hash: SHA1



Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I was less

clear about my willingness to participate the organization of SFD this

year.



Having a venue is the most important part of SFD that's missing. As an

organization even less than "non-profit", but rather "no-money", a

Free-As-In-Gratis venue is important. So, is there anyone on the list

who is able to offer a venue? I'd really like to share with the Linux

Conference, if possible.



I expect we can scratch up some SFD presentations once a venue is

established. But if Colin is only looking for one more presentation I

can do the "What is Software Freedom" presentation and my best RMS

impression.



- --Bob.



On 18/07/15 03:23 PM, Paul Nijjar wrote:

> I have been dropping hints about this in earlier threads, but now

> it is official: The Working Centre is not intending to organize

> Software Freedom Day stuff this year, and I am not going to be

> organizing anything personally. That should not prohibit anybody

> else from putting together a team and organizing an event.

>

> Personally I think that joining forces with Colin's Linux

> Conference makes a lot of sense.

>

> Having said that, if a team organizes something and is looking for

> a space to run the event, then The Working Centre might be able to

> make something available (no promises, though, and I think our

> preference is not to host). If you are planning to do this then we

> would need to know at least a month in advance, however.

>

> - Paul

>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)

Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability



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1RoAn08jN/smRlcC8W/Rcc32USrhEv91

=/FGG

-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





_______________________________________________

kwlug-disc mailing list

kwlug-disc at kwlug.org

http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc mailing list
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org 		 	   		  
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From colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 21 11:20:46 2015
From: colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com (Colin Mills)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 11:20:46 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <SNT149-W61F7EAEAE78CE10513C551AF840@phx.gbl>
References: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>
	<CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT149-W61F7EAEAE78CE10513C551AF840@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CACzt8WQMd35H1bRsGY_AkOG2O6iOmK3eb-Dua4pGm=H1AVwuiw@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, so I am starting to understand that there is some confusion within the
planning of the event.


* As for right now, I am waiting on talks from multiple amounts of people.
I have a UNIX is your IDE talk lined up, I have a talk from Clearpath
Robotics lined up, Bob's talk if the SFD doesn't go through. I am looking
at getting another keynote speaker and I myself am giving a talk. This
gives a pretty stable basis for talks.

* As for a location, I am in the process of organizing Conestoga's
Cambridge campus for the event. Right now I am in conversation with one of
my professors trying to organize the location and book it for the
appropriate date.

* As for the date we are looking at October 3rd. It seemed to be the best
date that would work for everyone.

* The food is another issue that will not be a problem. We will have pizza
for lunch as well as coffee and snacks throughout the day.

* As for the installfest I am thinking we could setup a station within the
cafeteria, as I've said I will need to talk to my professor about the
viability of such an endeavor. Plus I would like to get a bucket of ready
to go Ubuntu 15 installs just to give people a taste of Linux. If anyone
wants to create about 30-50 usbs that would be great. I will compensate
your accordingly.

* For SFD, I am not trying to be selfish but hopefully we can incorporate
it into the conference somehow. Logistically it doesn't make sense to have
two events around the same time frame, and I am more then welcome to input
or advertising or anything of the like.

* As for right now I DO NOT have any talks in except my own. I have asked
for drafts from those who will be talking and I am still looking at the
Keynote as well as Clearpath.

* I hope this clears up some of the confusion.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin J. Mills (cjm)
FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> Advocate

Software Engineering Technology
Second Year
Conestoga College
Canada

"makepkg, not war"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:52 AM, Joe Wennechuk <
youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I have a very nice projector i could loan out... It is a Mitsubishi
> xl5980lu. Message me off list for arrangements.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 10:45:48 -0400
> From: kenhermanson at gmail.com
> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
>
>
> *Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, projector, etc.?*
>
> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I was less
> clear about my willingness to participate the organization of SFD this
> year.
>
> Having a venue is the most important part of SFD that's missing. As an
> organization even less than "non-profit", but rather "no-money", a
> Free-As-In-Gratis venue is important. So, is there anyone on the list
> who is able to offer a venue? I'd really like to share with the Linux
> Conference, if possible.
>
> I expect we can scratch up some SFD presentations once a venue is
> established. But if Colin is only looking for one more presentation I
> can do the "What is Software Freedom" presentation and my best RMS
> impression.
>
> - --Bob.
>
> On 18/07/15 03:23 PM, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> > I have been dropping hints about this in earlier threads, but now
> > it is official: The Working Centre is not intending to organize
> > Software Freedom Day stuff this year, and I am not going to be
> > organizing anything personally. That should not prohibit anybody
> > else from putting together a team and organizing an event.
> >
> > Personally I think that joining forces with Colin's Linux
> > Conference makes a lot of sense.
> >
> > Having said that, if a team organizes something and is looking for
> > a space to run the event, then The Working Centre might be able to
> > make something available (no promises, though, and I think our
> > preference is not to host). If you are planning to do this then we
> > would need to know at least a month in advance, however.
> >
> > - Paul
> >
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlWrGGQACgkQuRKJsNLM5ep6SACcCLE+Bn3ie5hSE9R+F+Vhg2F9
> 1RoAn08jN/smRlcC8W/Rcc32USrhEv91
> =/FGG
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
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From colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 21 11:21:52 2015
From: colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com (Colin Mills)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 11:21:52 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <CACzt8WQMd35H1bRsGY_AkOG2O6iOmK3eb-Dua4pGm=H1AVwuiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>
	<CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT149-W61F7EAEAE78CE10513C551AF840@phx.gbl>
	<CACzt8WQMd35H1bRsGY_AkOG2O6iOmK3eb-Dua4pGm=H1AVwuiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACzt8WQbQmPRFtifnuQrZgBnN0FZAE0AaDFeKojzyaH2JtJi3Q@mail.gmail.com>

Oh and I do have access to the AV department so projection shouldn't be a
problem.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin J. Mills (cjm)
FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> Advocate

Software Engineering Technology
Second Year
Conestoga College
Canada

"makepkg, not war"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Colin Mills <colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ok, so I am starting to understand that there is some confusion within the
> planning of the event.
>
>
> * As for right now, I am waiting on talks from multiple amounts of people.
> I have a UNIX is your IDE talk lined up, I have a talk from Clearpath
> Robotics lined up, Bob's talk if the SFD doesn't go through. I am looking
> at getting another keynote speaker and I myself am giving a talk. This
> gives a pretty stable basis for talks.
>
> * As for a location, I am in the process of organizing Conestoga's
> Cambridge campus for the event. Right now I am in conversation with one of
> my professors trying to organize the location and book it for the
> appropriate date.
>
> * As for the date we are looking at October 3rd. It seemed to be the best
> date that would work for everyone.
>
> * The food is another issue that will not be a problem. We will have pizza
> for lunch as well as coffee and snacks throughout the day.
>
> * As for the installfest I am thinking we could setup a station within the
> cafeteria, as I've said I will need to talk to my professor about the
> viability of such an endeavor. Plus I would like to get a bucket of ready
> to go Ubuntu 15 installs just to give people a taste of Linux. If anyone
> wants to create about 30-50 usbs that would be great. I will compensate
> your accordingly.
>
> * For SFD, I am not trying to be selfish but hopefully we can incorporate
> it into the conference somehow. Logistically it doesn't make sense to have
> two events around the same time frame, and I am more then welcome to input
> or advertising or anything of the like.
>
> * As for right now I DO NOT have any talks in except my own. I have asked
> for drafts from those who will be talking and I am still looking at the
> Keynote as well as Clearpath.
>
> * I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Colin J. Mills (cjm)
> FOSS <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_and_open-source_software> Advocate
>
> Software Engineering Technology
> Second Year
> Conestoga College
> Canada
>
> "makepkg, not war"
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 6:52 AM, Joe Wennechuk <
> youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a very nice projector i could loan out... It is a Mitsubishi
>> xl5980lu. Message me off list for arrangements.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 10:45:48 -0400
>> From: kenhermanson at gmail.com
>> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>>
>> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
>>
>>
>> *Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, projector, etc.?*
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I was less
>> clear about my willingness to participate the organization of SFD this
>> year.
>>
>> Having a venue is the most important part of SFD that's missing. As an
>> organization even less than "non-profit", but rather "no-money", a
>> Free-As-In-Gratis venue is important. So, is there anyone on the list
>> who is able to offer a venue? I'd really like to share with the Linux
>> Conference, if possible.
>>
>> I expect we can scratch up some SFD presentations once a venue is
>> established. But if Colin is only looking for one more presentation I
>> can do the "What is Software Freedom" presentation and my best RMS
>> impression.
>>
>> - --Bob.
>>
>> On 18/07/15 03:23 PM, Paul Nijjar wrote:
>> > I have been dropping hints about this in earlier threads, but now
>> > it is official: The Working Centre is not intending to organize
>> > Software Freedom Day stuff this year, and I am not going to be
>> > organizing anything personally. That should not prohibit anybody
>> > else from putting together a team and organizing an event.
>> >
>> > Personally I think that joining forces with Colin's Linux
>> > Conference makes a lot of sense.
>> >
>> > Having said that, if a team organizes something and is looking for
>> > a space to run the event, then The Working Centre might be able to
>> > make something available (no promises, though, and I think our
>> > preference is not to host). If you are planning to do this then we
>> > would need to know at least a month in advance, however.
>> >
>> > - Paul
>> >
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.20 (GNU/Linux)
>> Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability
>>
>> iEYEARECAAYFAlWrGGQACgkQuRKJsNLM5ep6SACcCLE+Bn3ie5hSE9R+F+Vhg2F9
>> 1RoAn08jN/smRlcC8W/Rcc32USrhEv91
>> =/FGG
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>>
>
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From btraynor at gmail.com  Tue Jul 21 19:18:40 2015
From: btraynor at gmail.com (Bill Traynor)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 19:18:40 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
Message-ID: <CAN20qYrHFY-+HBbEZ5XLpTReyPZx1C-F4q6qvPuq+toW9_YgJA@mail.gmail.com>

Many years ago I donated a pile of tech books I no longer needed to
the LUG's library.  I was just wondering if there is still a library
and if the LUG still accepts donations of books?

Thanks
Bill




From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul 22 13:36:33 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 13:36:33 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
In-Reply-To: <CAN20qYrHFY-+HBbEZ5XLpTReyPZx1C-F4q6qvPuq+toW9_YgJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN20qYrHFY-+HBbEZ5XLpTReyPZx1C-F4q6qvPuq+toW9_YgJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150722173633.GB3707@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>


Many of those donated books still exist at Computer Recycling, on some
bookshelves. Most of them are really old now, and several are out of
date, so we are thinking of recycling the ones that are not obviously
useful. (There are other old books which we will definitely keep, such
as the "UNIX Power Tools" ones.) 

I do not know whether the LUG still accepts donations of books or not.
That is a question for Charles (or maybe somebody else if they want to
make the LUG library more vibrant). 

- Paul 


On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 07:18:40PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
> Many years ago I donated a pile of tech books I no longer needed to
> the LUG's library.  I was just wondering if there is still a library
> and if the LUG still accepts donations of books?
> 
> Thanks
> Bill
> 

-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From charlesm at theworkingcentre.org  Wed Jul 22 14:54:04 2015
From: charlesm at theworkingcentre.org (Charles McColm)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 18:54:04 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
In-Reply-To: <20150722173633.GB3707@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <CAN20qYrHFY-+HBbEZ5XLpTReyPZx1C-F4q6qvPuq+toW9_YgJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722173633.GB3707@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <2B52BADA113D0848A06BFF6C93971D111B9A72B5@ms-mail.theworkingcentre.org>

Thanks Paul. We're open to book donations, but it would be nice to have books that are still relevant. A large number of the books in the library are as Paul mentioned very out of date. 

Cheers!

Charles

-----Original Message-----
From: kwlug-disc [mailto:kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org] On Behalf Of Paul Nijjar
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 1:37 PM
To: KWLUG discussion
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library


Many of those donated books still exist at Computer Recycling, on some bookshelves. Most of them are really old now, and several are out of date, so we are thinking of recycling the ones that are not obviously useful. (There are other old books which we will definitely keep, such as the "UNIX Power Tools" ones.) 

I do not know whether the LUG still accepts donations of books or not.
That is a question for Charles (or maybe somebody else if they want to make the LUG library more vibrant). 

- Paul 


On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 07:18:40PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
> Many years ago I donated a pile of tech books I no longer needed to 
> the LUG's library.  I was just wondering if there is still a library 
> and if the LUG still accepts donations of books?
> 
> Thanks
> Bill
> 

--
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org


_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc mailing list
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org






From btraynor at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 15:26:49 2015
From: btraynor at gmail.com (Bill Traynor)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 15:26:49 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
In-Reply-To: <2B52BADA113D0848A06BFF6C93971D111B9A72B5@ms-mail.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <CAN20qYrHFY-+HBbEZ5XLpTReyPZx1C-F4q6qvPuq+toW9_YgJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722173633.GB3707@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<2B52BADA113D0848A06BFF6C93971D111B9A72B5@ms-mail.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <CAN20qYrVR0WiycY7J1Fbxb8GmR5w4dATKEin-d42aZbSDyP2-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, once I go through my collection and purge the out of date
stuff I'll see about getting whatever is left to the LUG.

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Charles McColm
<charlesm at theworkingcentre.org> wrote:
> Thanks Paul. We're open to book donations, but it would be nice to have books that are still relevant. A large number of the books in the library are as Paul mentioned very out of date.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Charles
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kwlug-disc [mailto:kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org] On Behalf Of Paul Nijjar
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 1:37 PM
> To: KWLUG discussion
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
>
>
> Many of those donated books still exist at Computer Recycling, on some bookshelves. Most of them are really old now, and several are out of date, so we are thinking of recycling the ones that are not obviously useful. (There are other old books which we will definitely keep, such as the "UNIX Power Tools" ones.)
>
> I do not know whether the LUG still accepts donations of books or not.
> That is a question for Charles (or maybe somebody else if they want to make the LUG library more vibrant).
>
> - Paul
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 07:18:40PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
>> Many years ago I donated a pile of tech books I no longer needed to
>> the LUG's library.  I was just wondering if there is still a library
>> and if the LUG still accepts donations of books?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Bill
>>
>
> --
> http://pnijjar.freeshell.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul 22 15:40:18 2015
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 15:40:18 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
In-Reply-To: <CAN20qYrVR0WiycY7J1Fbxb8GmR5w4dATKEin-d42aZbSDyP2-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN20qYrHFY-+HBbEZ5XLpTReyPZx1C-F4q6qvPuq+toW9_YgJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722173633.GB3707@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<2B52BADA113D0848A06BFF6C93971D111B9A72B5@ms-mail.theworkingcentre.org>
	<CAN20qYrVR0WiycY7J1Fbxb8GmR5w4dATKEin-d42aZbSDyP2-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150722194018.GA2498@node1.localdomain>

Even if only 5 pages out of the whole book are useful, it is worth a
donation.  Eg. I learned HTML from RFC, which nobody does anymore.  But,
for someone starting out, it may be of some value, even if he/she only
skims through the book.

Now, if it's about how to program PDP-11, it may still be useful to
someone with fireplace, out there in the Kitchener wilderness.
-- 
William

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 03:26:49PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
> Thanks, once I go through my collection and purge the out of date
> stuff I'll see about getting whatever is left to the LUG.
> 
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Charles McColm
> <charlesm at theworkingcentre.org> wrote:
> > Thanks Paul. We're open to book donations, but it would be nice to have books that are still relevant. A large number of the books in the library are as Paul mentioned very out of date.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Charles
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: kwlug-disc [mailto:kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org] On Behalf Of Paul Nijjar
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 1:37 PM
> > To: KWLUG discussion
> > Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
> >
> >
> > Many of those donated books still exist at Computer Recycling, on some bookshelves. Most of them are really old now, and several are out of date, so we are thinking of recycling the ones that are not obviously useful. (There are other old books which we will definitely keep, such as the "UNIX Power Tools" ones.)
> >
> > I do not know whether the LUG still accepts donations of books or not.
> > That is a question for Charles (or maybe somebody else if they want to make the LUG library more vibrant).
> >
> > - Paul
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 07:18:40PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
> >> Many years ago I donated a pile of tech books I no longer needed to
> >> the LUG's library.  I was just wondering if there is still a library
> >> and if the LUG still accepts donations of books?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Bill
> >>
> >
> > --
> > http://pnijjar.freeshell.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From btraynor at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 16:17:20 2015
From: btraynor at gmail.com (Bill Traynor)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:17:20 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
In-Reply-To: <20150722194018.GA2498@node1.localdomain>
References: <CAN20qYrHFY-+HBbEZ5XLpTReyPZx1C-F4q6qvPuq+toW9_YgJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722173633.GB3707@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<2B52BADA113D0848A06BFF6C93971D111B9A72B5@ms-mail.theworkingcentre.org>
	<CAN20qYrVR0WiycY7J1Fbxb8GmR5w4dATKEin-d42aZbSDyP2-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722194018.GA2498@node1.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAN20qYqMu581dtp27bKAwy2Wu_+uZcdAFOeCih47VtCOtj9Y4A@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, if I had PDP-11 programming manuals, that would be something
I'd keep ;).  FWIW, I have a basement full of trs-80 colour computers
and commodore 64s. Love the retro computers.

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:40 PM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Even if only 5 pages out of the whole book are useful, it is worth a
> donation.  Eg. I learned HTML from RFC, which nobody does anymore.  But,
> for someone starting out, it may be of some value, even if he/she only
> skims through the book.
>
> Now, if it's about how to program PDP-11, it may still be useful to
> someone with fireplace, out there in the Kitchener wilderness.
> --
> William
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 03:26:49PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
>> Thanks, once I go through my collection and purge the out of date
>> stuff I'll see about getting whatever is left to the LUG.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Charles McColm
>> <charlesm at theworkingcentre.org> wrote:
>> > Thanks Paul. We're open to book donations, but it would be nice to have books that are still relevant. A large number of the books in the library are as Paul mentioned very out of date.
>> >
>> > Cheers!
>> >
>> > Charles
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: kwlug-disc [mailto:kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org] On Behalf Of Paul Nijjar
>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 1:37 PM
>> > To: KWLUG discussion
>> > Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
>> >
>> >
>> > Many of those donated books still exist at Computer Recycling, on some bookshelves. Most of them are really old now, and several are out of date, so we are thinking of recycling the ones that are not obviously useful. (There are other old books which we will definitely keep, such as the "UNIX Power Tools" ones.)
>> >
>> > I do not know whether the LUG still accepts donations of books or not.
>> > That is a question for Charles (or maybe somebody else if they want to make the LUG library more vibrant).
>> >
>> > - Paul
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 07:18:40PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
>> >> Many years ago I donated a pile of tech books I no longer needed to
>> >> the LUG's library.  I was just wondering if there is still a library
>> >> and if the LUG still accepts donations of books?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >> Bill
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > http://pnijjar.freeshell.org
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > kwlug-disc mailing list
>> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > kwlug-disc mailing list
>> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org




From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 16:20:59 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 20:20:59 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
In-Reply-To: <CAN20qYqMu581dtp27bKAwy2Wu_+uZcdAFOeCih47VtCOtj9Y4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN20qYrHFY-+HBbEZ5XLpTReyPZx1C-F4q6qvPuq+toW9_YgJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722173633.GB3707@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<2B52BADA113D0848A06BFF6C93971D111B9A72B5@ms-mail.theworkingcentre.org>
	<CAN20qYrVR0WiycY7J1Fbxb8GmR5w4dATKEin-d42aZbSDyP2-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722194018.GA2498@node1.localdomain>
	<CAN20qYqMu581dtp27bKAwy2Wu_+uZcdAFOeCih47VtCOtj9Y4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXORVYkpHrHnK46n8kHZdDj3d+wd37_A0zD3SVQdkK5Y=iQ@mail.gmail.com>

Are you implying that you have trs-80s and C-64s to donate as well??  In
that case, I'll be over in a few minutes!

Those two would look great next to my Apple Classic II...


On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 at 16:18 Bill Traynor <btraynor at gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, if I had PDP-11 programming manuals, that would be something
> I'd keep ;).  FWIW, I have a basement full of trs-80 colour computers
> and commodore 64s. Love the retro computers.
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:40 PM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
> > Even if only 5 pages out of the whole book are useful, it is worth a
> > donation.  Eg. I learned HTML from RFC, which nobody does anymore.  But,
> > for someone starting out, it may be of some value, even if he/she only
> > skims through the book.
> >
> > Now, if it's about how to program PDP-11, it may still be useful to
> > someone with fireplace, out there in the Kitchener wilderness.
> > --
> > William
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 03:26:49PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
> >> Thanks, once I go through my collection and purge the out of date
> >> stuff I'll see about getting whatever is left to the LUG.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Charles McColm
> >> <charlesm at theworkingcentre.org> wrote:
> >> > Thanks Paul. We're open to book donations, but it would be nice to
> have books that are still relevant. A large number of the books in the
> library are as Paul mentioned very out of date.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers!
> >> >
> >> > Charles
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: kwlug-disc [mailto:kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org] On Behalf Of
> Paul Nijjar
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 1:37 PM
> >> > To: KWLUG discussion
> >> > Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Many of those donated books still exist at Computer Recycling, on
> some bookshelves. Most of them are really old now, and several are out of
> date, so we are thinking of recycling the ones that are not obviously
> useful. (There are other old books which we will definitely keep, such as
> the "UNIX Power Tools" ones.)
> >> >
> >> > I do not know whether the LUG still accepts donations of books or not.
> >> > That is a question for Charles (or maybe somebody else if they want
> to make the LUG library more vibrant).
> >> >
> >> > - Paul
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 07:18:40PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
> >> >> Many years ago I donated a pile of tech books I no longer needed to
> >> >> the LUG's library.  I was just wondering if there is still a library
> >> >> and if the LUG still accepts donations of books?
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks
> >> >> Bill
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > http://pnijjar.freeshell.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> >> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> >> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> >> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> >> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> kwlug-disc mailing list
> >> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> >> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
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From btraynor at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 16:39:03 2015
From: btraynor at gmail.com (Bill Traynor)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:39:03 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
In-Reply-To: <CAKyYXORVYkpHrHnK46n8kHZdDj3d+wd37_A0zD3SVQdkK5Y=iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN20qYrHFY-+HBbEZ5XLpTReyPZx1C-F4q6qvPuq+toW9_YgJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722173633.GB3707@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<2B52BADA113D0848A06BFF6C93971D111B9A72B5@ms-mail.theworkingcentre.org>
	<CAN20qYrVR0WiycY7J1Fbxb8GmR5w4dATKEin-d42aZbSDyP2-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722194018.GA2498@node1.localdomain>
	<CAN20qYqMu581dtp27bKAwy2Wu_+uZcdAFOeCih47VtCOtj9Y4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKyYXORVYkpHrHnK46n8kHZdDj3d+wd37_A0zD3SVQdkK5Y=iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN20qYoD41mkD_aCOVZ5958TrfriNjJPn3_QoEJp8-a9QP_trA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:20 PM, CrankyOldBugger
<crankyoldbugger at gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you implying that you have trs-80s and C-64s to donate as well??  In
> that case, I'll be over in a few minutes!
>
> Those two would look great next to my Apple Classic II...
>

Nope, I love these old machines.

>
> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 at 16:18 Bill Traynor <btraynor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Actually, if I had PDP-11 programming manuals, that would be something
>> I'd keep ;).  FWIW, I have a basement full of trs-80 colour computers
>> and commodore 64s. Love the retro computers.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:40 PM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
>> wrote:
>> > Even if only 5 pages out of the whole book are useful, it is worth a
>> > donation.  Eg. I learned HTML from RFC, which nobody does anymore.  But,
>> > for someone starting out, it may be of some value, even if he/she only
>> > skims through the book.
>> >
>> > Now, if it's about how to program PDP-11, it may still be useful to
>> > someone with fireplace, out there in the Kitchener wilderness.
>> > --
>> > William
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 03:26:49PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
>> >> Thanks, once I go through my collection and purge the out of date
>> >> stuff I'll see about getting whatever is left to the LUG.
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Charles McColm
>> >> <charlesm at theworkingcentre.org> wrote:
>> >> > Thanks Paul. We're open to book donations, but it would be nice to
>> >> > have books that are still relevant. A large number of the books in the
>> >> > library are as Paul mentioned very out of date.
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers!
>> >> >
>> >> > Charles
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: kwlug-disc [mailto:kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org] On Behalf Of
>> >> > Paul Nijjar
>> >> > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 1:37 PM
>> >> > To: KWLUG discussion
>> >> > Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Many of those donated books still exist at Computer Recycling, on
>> >> > some bookshelves. Most of them are really old now, and several are out of
>> >> > date, so we are thinking of recycling the ones that are not obviously
>> >> > useful. (There are other old books which we will definitely keep, such as
>> >> > the "UNIX Power Tools" ones.)
>> >> >
>> >> > I do not know whether the LUG still accepts donations of books or
>> >> > not.
>> >> > That is a question for Charles (or maybe somebody else if they want
>> >> > to make the LUG library more vibrant).
>> >> >
>> >> > - Paul
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 07:18:40PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
>> >> >> Many years ago I donated a pile of tech books I no longer needed to
>> >> >> the LUG's library.  I was just wondering if there is still a library
>> >> >> and if the LUG still accepts donations of books?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks
>> >> >> Bill
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > http://pnijjar.freeshell.org
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > kwlug-disc mailing list
>> >> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> >> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > kwlug-disc mailing list
>> >> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> >> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> >> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> >> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > kwlug-disc mailing list
>> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kwlug-disc mailing list
>> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>




From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Wed Jul 22 16:42:44 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 20:42:44 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
In-Reply-To: <CAN20qYoD41mkD_aCOVZ5958TrfriNjJPn3_QoEJp8-a9QP_trA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN20qYrHFY-+HBbEZ5XLpTReyPZx1C-F4q6qvPuq+toW9_YgJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722173633.GB3707@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<2B52BADA113D0848A06BFF6C93971D111B9A72B5@ms-mail.theworkingcentre.org>
	<CAN20qYrVR0WiycY7J1Fbxb8GmR5w4dATKEin-d42aZbSDyP2-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722194018.GA2498@node1.localdomain>
	<CAN20qYqMu581dtp27bKAwy2Wu_+uZcdAFOeCih47VtCOtj9Y4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKyYXORVYkpHrHnK46n8kHZdDj3d+wd37_A0zD3SVQdkK5Y=iQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAN20qYoD41mkD_aCOVZ5958TrfriNjJPn3_QoEJp8-a9QP_trA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOQQ_7cPURVYuDiuQW_Ly3gqwvA0+-ka2Vx6TyEuvgvY3Q@mail.gmail.com>

I can understand that.  I'd love to get my hands on an old System/38 (and
of course, a bigger house to put it in...)


On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 at 16:39 Bill Traynor <btraynor at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:20 PM, CrankyOldBugger
> <crankyoldbugger at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Are you implying that you have trs-80s and C-64s to donate as well??  In
> > that case, I'll be over in a few minutes!
> >
> > Those two would look great next to my Apple Classic II...
> >
>
> Nope, I love these old machines.
>
> >
> > On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 at 16:18 Bill Traynor <btraynor at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Actually, if I had PDP-11 programming manuals, that would be something
> >> I'd keep ;).  FWIW, I have a basement full of trs-80 colour computers
> >> and commodore 64s. Love the retro computers.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:40 PM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Even if only 5 pages out of the whole book are useful, it is worth a
> >> > donation.  Eg. I learned HTML from RFC, which nobody does anymore.
> But,
> >> > for someone starting out, it may be of some value, even if he/she only
> >> > skims through the book.
> >> >
> >> > Now, if it's about how to program PDP-11, it may still be useful to
> >> > someone with fireplace, out there in the Kitchener wilderness.
> >> > --
> >> > William
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 03:26:49PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
> >> >> Thanks, once I go through my collection and purge the out of date
> >> >> stuff I'll see about getting whatever is left to the LUG.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Charles McColm
> >> >> <charlesm at theworkingcentre.org> wrote:
> >> >> > Thanks Paul. We're open to book donations, but it would be nice to
> >> >> > have books that are still relevant. A large number of the books in
> the
> >> >> > library are as Paul mentioned very out of date.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Cheers!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Charles
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > From: kwlug-disc [mailto:kwlug-disc-bounces at kwlug.org] On Behalf
> Of
> >> >> > Paul Nijjar
> >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 1:37 PM
> >> >> > To: KWLUG discussion
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Many of those donated books still exist at Computer Recycling, on
> >> >> > some bookshelves. Most of them are really old now, and several are
> out of
> >> >> > date, so we are thinking of recycling the ones that are not
> obviously
> >> >> > useful. (There are other old books which we will definitely keep,
> such as
> >> >> > the "UNIX Power Tools" ones.)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I do not know whether the LUG still accepts donations of books or
> >> >> > not.
> >> >> > That is a question for Charles (or maybe somebody else if they want
> >> >> > to make the LUG library more vibrant).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > - Paul
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 07:18:40PM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote:
> >> >> >> Many years ago I donated a pile of tech books I no longer needed
> to
> >> >> >> the LUG's library.  I was just wondering if there is still a
> library
> >> >> >> and if the LUG still accepts donations of books?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Thanks
> >> >> >> Bill
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > http://pnijjar.freeshell.org
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> >> >> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> >> >> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> >> >> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> >> >> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> kwlug-disc mailing list
> >> >> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> >> >> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> >> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> >> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> kwlug-disc mailing list
> >> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> >> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kwlug-disc mailing list
> > kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
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From bjonkman at sobac.com  Thu Jul 23 15:54:18 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:54:18 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] System Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner,
	31 July 2015 [bjns]
In-Reply-To: <55A5D26F.1010908@sobac.com>
References: <55A5D26F.1010908@sobac.com>
Message-ID: <55B1466A.1090404@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi again! 31 July is drawing close, so it's time we chose a place for
dinner.  So far, there are three choices:

* Star Wok
* Lancaster Smokehouse
* Chen's Buffet

I can add more if anyone is particularly fond of a particular place;
e-mail me or leave a comment on the blog:

http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/2015/07/14/system-administrator-appreciation-day-dinner-31-july-2015/#proposed_venues

And the polls are open! If you have a favorite then let me know by
e-mail or comment, or try out a Web poll:

 http://strawpoll.me/5008195

Sorry, Javascript required and source code not available.

- --Bob.


On 14/07/15 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> Hi Everybody!
> 
> System Administrator Appreciation Day falls on the last Friday of
> the month every year, and is allegedly celebrated by users gifting
> their SysAdmins chocolate cake and ice cream. Hands up, those of
> you who have actually experienced that? Hmmm? I thought so?
> 
> Nobody appreciates System Administrators more than other System 
> Administrators, so for the last few years I?ve hosted a Systems 
> Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner. Last year we went to
> LaiLai?s, and previously we?ve gone to Egg Roll King.
> 
> SysAdminDay is on Friday, 31 July 2015, just over two weeks away. 
> Where would you like to go this year? Potential venues must offer 
> vegetarian fare, and be physically accessible. Leave suggestions
> in the comments of my blog post[1] or send me e-mail, then next
> week we can vote. If there?s more than one candidate on the list
> we?ll rank choices from 3 points (most favoured) to 1 point (least
> favoured), and I?ll add them up, post the results on the blog, and
> we can all meet for dinner.
> 
> SysAdminDay Dinner is open to everyone, whether you?re a System 
> Administrator, a SysAdmin Student, or a former SysAdmin who?s been 
> lured to the dark side. And also their friends, family, and
> end-users. OK, maybe not the end-users. Unless they?re friends or
> family. :-)
> 
> See you on 31 July! -?Bob.
> 
> [1] 
> http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/2015/07/14/system-administrator-appreciation-day-dinner-31-july-2015/
>
> 
> 


Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413
SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/
Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting
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From hubert at uhoreg.ca  Fri Jul 24 13:27:08 2015
From: hubert at uhoreg.ca (Hubert Chathi)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 13:27:08 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <CACzt8WQMd35H1bRsGY_AkOG2O6iOmK3eb-Dua4pGm=H1AVwuiw@mail.gmail.com>
	(Colin Mills's message of "Tue, 21 Jul 2015 11:20:46 -0400")
References: <20150718192300.GA3712@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<55AB1866.1020500@sobac.com>
	<CAMWWYCW43j0HosXQxXJp=FjkQqeHxW5+tPBnHpxBZ1C4SQ=Spw@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT149-W61F7EAEAE78CE10513C551AF840@phx.gbl>
	<CACzt8WQMd35H1bRsGY_AkOG2O6iOmK3eb-Dua4pGm=H1AVwuiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <871tfxpitv.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>

On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 11:20:46 -0400, Colin Mills <colin.j.mills96 at gmail.com> said:
...
> * As for the date we are looking at October 3rd. It seemed to be the
> best date that would work for everyone.

FWIW, October 3rd is the 30th birthday celebration of the FSF, so it
seems to be an appropriate day to hold a Linux conference.

https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-invites-the-free-software-community-to-its-30th-birthday-party-on-october-3rd-2015




From bjonkman at sobac.com  Sat Jul 25 02:52:58 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 02:52:58 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
In-Reply-To: <55AC8618.2050508@sobac.com>
References: <CAMWWYCXMWw01bFX0gSvbgMRVWWc=zRnbpd_1AoTNZw21jVTjxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1579204471.780741.1437362315345.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<55AC8618.2050508@sobac.com>
Message-ID: <55B3324A.2090802@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I was talking to a friend who may have some lines on a paid venue. If
the venue needs payment, then either we need a generous benefactor, or
the attendees will need to pay.  KWLUG list members are a significant
portion of the target audience -- would you be willing to pay to
attend Software Freedom Day?  $20? More? Less?

We'll need to more reasonably quickly to secure a venue, as the target
date (26 September) is getting close...

- --Bob.


On 20/07/15 01:24 AM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> Colin has not (yet) offered a venue for SFD. I'm not sure what
> Colin has accepted, whether it is my offer of a presentation on
> "What is Software Freedom", or my request for an SFD venue. Ken,
> please continue to investigate a venue for SFD.
> 
> If either Colin or Ken (or someone else) comes up with a venue in
> the next week or so then there may be a Software Freedom Day in 
> Kitchener-Waterloo. If no venue can be found by the end of July
> then I withdraw from the SFD organizing committee due to lack of
> remaining time.
> 
> I'm only doing one presentation of "What is Software Freedom",
> whether at the Linux Conference or at a potential SFD. As was
> kindly pointed out to me, I'm stretching myself very thin for the
> upcoming few months.
> 
> --Bob, who wonders who else might be on the SFD Organizing
> Committee.
> 
> 
> 
> On 19/07/15 11:18 PM, B.S. wrote:
>> This thread has become confusing. Perhaps it should be split
>> out.
> 
>> (1) Colin has a venue and a bunch of plans and expectations 
>> already in place. They may not yet be firm, formal, or
>> documented, but evidently he is working through that. No doubt he
>> will let us know more when he is able.
> 
>> - to that end, Ken, hold off on what you're thinking, as I expect
>>  Colin will inherently provide whatever Bob needs since he has 
>> accepted Bob for his offered presentation. I expect Colin has or 
>> will have Conestoga A/V facilities available to him. e.g. Every 
>> classroom already has a screen, projector, sound, and so on and
>> so forth. (Bob, if you haven't presented there before, their
>> computers don't / didn't understand impress, but do have an
>> ability to get sound/video from your own laptop, being on KVMs.)
> 
>> - Colin, when you get that far: (1) Consider an installfest. 
>> Presumably in a cafeteria somewhere. It may not be large enough
>> to be a 'fest', but volunteers hanging around to help people
>> connect the dots / 'whats a distro, where do I get one, and what
>> do I do with it' will be useful. For however few show up for
>> such, vs those who know they can figure things out on their own.
>> Having a computer/switch nearby for people to plug ethernet into
>> and netboot into a distro install will be useful, or perhaps even
>> to just ftp down an .iso or vm. I expect Paul / Bob / kwlug can
>> help inform the what / how of such. (2) When you get that far,
>> let us know how we can help. e.g. Door / fest / elsewise
>> volunteers. For that matter a lab running a vm kiosk could be
>> useful - there could be eclipse, blender, minecraft, grandpa
>> (what you'd give your parents when their windows machine goes
>> TU), and any number of things others can come up with better than
>> me. Seems to me each vm choice has a library store out th
> 
>> Perhaps: 'Conestoga K-W Linux Conference 2015'
> 
> 
>> (2) Bob and Ken, or Bob in responding to Ken, is talking about a
>>  separate and separately located SFD that thus far has no venue /
>>  location, or date. It does not yet exist.  Should it come to 
>> exist, it may well be that that venue already has all necessary
>> A/V in place. Could further discussion about such be split into
>> a different thread than from Colin, and the two kept distinctly 
>> separate. For I'm getting fair confused and having problems 
>> following 'which is what talking about whom', at this point.
> 
>> - given the conflicting events of the SFD date, perhaps it's
>> worth scaling down SFD from the past and partnering with
>> whatever kwartzlap is doing? 'IP Freedom Day', not just software,
>> or hardware? Let alone kwartzlab hardware is probably a larger
>> domain than the 'hardware' one expects when thinking computer
>> centric.
> 
>> Perhaps: 'K-W SFD 2015'
> 
> 
>> For that matter, for both ... a presentation such as Bob is 
>> offering seems *VERY* important, perhaps de rigeur. 'Freedom',
>> in this context, is crucial to understand, never gets old, and
>> no matter how many times I hear it or think about it I keep
>> being startled at how it applies to areas I hadn't considered it
>> in different contexts I experience.
> 
>>> ________________________________ From: Ken Hermanson 
>>> <kenhermanson at gmail.com> To: KWLUG discussion 
>>> <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 6:37 PM 
>>> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] Software Freedom Day
>>> 
>>> O.k., I'm a rookie at this. Your info. is detailed but not 
>>> detailed enough. It sounds like you need one largish room for
>>> the main presentation. The projector and screen are no problem.
>>> Are the events sequential or simultaneous? I'm assuming that
>>> you need smaller side rooms for the other activities? I'm not 
>>> familiar with the other venues that you've mentioned. Maybe I 
>>> should take a look at them. No promises, but I'll sniff
>>> around.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Bob Jonkman 
>>> <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 19/07/15 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
>>>>> Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, 
>>>>> projector, etc.?
>>>> 
>>>> In the past we've had up to 100 people come in to see some
>>>> (or all) of the presentations at SFD. It's been held at
>>>> either Kwartzlab (both old and new locations), or the Queen
>>>> Street Commons Cafe along with an installfest at Computer
>>>> Recycling, across the road from QSC.
>>>> 
>>>> Last year's attendance at SFD was down considerably because
>>>> of the many other activities that take place on the actual
>>>> SFD date (19 Sept this year). Last year was also the first
>>>> time we had workshops and a Free Culture film festival at The
>>>> Working Centre, also across the street from QSC. It was
>>>> especially disappointing because of the extra effort we put
>>>> into getting presenters, the workshops, and the film
>>>> festival, only to have what was probably the lowest
>>>> attendance at SFD ever.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Here's what's needed: The presentations require a projector 
>>>> and screen, with seating either formally theatre-style, or 
>>>> informally coffee-shop style (I like coffee-shop style). 
>>>> Workshops (if we're doing that) require desk- or table-space 
>>>> with power and WiFi for people to work on laptops; the 
>>>> installfest (if we're doing that) needs table space, power, 
>>>> wired connection, and maybe the prep of a distribution 
>>>> repository server. A Free Culture film festival (if we're
>>>> doing that) needs theatre-style seating and a projector &
>>>> screen.
>>>> 
>>>> On 19/07/15 10:45 AM, Ken Hermanson wrote:
>>>>> *Roughly how many people attend SFD? Do you need screen, 
>>>>> projector, etc.?*
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman 
>>>>> <bjonkman at sobac.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanx Paul. I did think you had made it perfectly clear.  I
>>>>>  was less clear about my willingness to participate the 
>>>>> organization of SFD this year.
> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc
>> mailing list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
>> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ kwlug-disc mailing
> list kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
> 
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elsAnRp2Svlc5fDz+IVFkPgcpqFxOzv1
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From jvj at golden.net  Sun Jul 26 10:48:49 2015
From: jvj at golden.net (John Johnson)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 10:48:49 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Blog post: Continuing Adventures with Ubuntu and
	Apache.
Message-ID: <55B4F351.706@golden.net>

Continuing Adventures with Ubuntu and Apache.

In a previous blog post "Installing LAMP on Ubuntu 11.04 aka The Natty 
Narwhal" I documented my start with Ubuntu and the Apache webserver suite.
see: http://kwlug.org/node/824

This blog post was updated a few times as the installation was updated.
Recently, I went through another update exercise and instead of updating 
the previous blog post, I elected to make another blog post.
see: http://kwlug.org/node/989

I am sure that this is "old hat" to many on this list.
But this work is not "old hat" to me.
And I would suspect that I am not alone in this.

JohnJ






From bjonkman at sobac.com  Sun Jul 26 19:03:52 2015
From: bjonkman at sobac.com (Bob Jonkman)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 19:03:52 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] System Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner,
	31 July 2015 [bjns]
In-Reply-To: <55B1466A.1090404@sobac.com>
References: <55A5D26F.1010908@sobac.com> <55B1466A.1090404@sobac.com>
Message-ID: <55B56758.9000605@sobac.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

And the results are in!

- From the Straw Poll at http://strawpoll.me/5008195/r:

Chen?s Buffet: 4 votes
Star Wok: 1 vote
Lancaster Smokehouse: 0 votes

- From these comments:
Chen?s Buffet: 1.5 votes
Star Wok: .5 votes
Lancaster Smokehouse: 1 vote

(those .5 votes are your fault, Dan! "I now therefore support either
of those buffet places"...)

I got no additional votes in e-mail that weren?t duplicates of the
comments or the Straw Poll, so the clear winner is Chen?s Buffet with
5.5 votes!

I?ll call for a reservation tomorrow (Monday), and see you there on
Friday, 31 July 2015 from 6:00pm to 9:00pm!

Chen?s Buffet
50 Weber Street North,
Waterloo, Ontario

Map: http://osm.org/go/ZXnbrayr--?m=

?Bob.


On 23/07/15 03:54 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> Hi again! 31 July is drawing close, so it's time we chose a place
> for dinner.  So far, there are three choices:
> 
> * Star Wok * Lancaster Smokehouse * Chen's Buffet
> 
> I can add more if anyone is particularly fond of a particular
> place; e-mail me or leave a comment on the blog:
> 
> http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/2015/07/14/system-administrator-appreciation-day-dinner-31-july-2015/#proposed_venues
>
>  And the polls are open! If you have a favorite then let me know
> by e-mail or comment, or try out a Web poll:
> 
> http://strawpoll.me/5008195
> 
> Sorry, Javascript required and source code not available.
> 
> --Bob.
> 
> 
> On 14/07/15 11:24 PM, Bob Jonkman wrote:
>> Hi Everybody!
> 
>> System Administrator Appreciation Day falls on the last Friday
>> of the month every year, and is allegedly celebrated by users
>> gifting their SysAdmins chocolate cake and ice cream. Hands up,
>> those of you who have actually experienced that? Hmmm? I thought
>> so?
> 
>> Nobody appreciates System Administrators more than other System 
>> Administrators, so for the last few years I?ve hosted a Systems 
>> Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner. Last year we went to 
>> LaiLai?s, and previously we?ve gone to Egg Roll King.
> 
>> SysAdminDay is on Friday, 31 July 2015, just over two weeks away.
>>  Where would you like to go this year? Potential venues must
>> offer vegetarian fare, and be physically accessible. Leave
>> suggestions in the comments of my blog post[1] or send me e-mail,
>> then next week we can vote. If there?s more than one candidate on
>> the list we?ll rank choices from 3 points (most favoured) to 1
>> point (least favoured), and I?ll add them up, post the results on
>> the blog, and we can all meet for dinner.
> 
>> SysAdminDay Dinner is open to everyone, whether you?re a System 
>> Administrator, a SysAdmin Student, or a former SysAdmin who?s
>> been lured to the dark side. And also their friends, family, and 
>> end-users. OK, maybe not the end-users. Unless they?re friends
>> or family. :-)
> 
>> See you on 31 July! -?Bob.
> 
>> [1] 
>> http://bob.jonkman.ca/blogs/2015/07/14/system-administrator-appreciation-day-dinner-31-july-2015/
>
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bob Jonkman <bjonkman at sobac.com> Phone: +1-519-635-9413 SOBAC
> Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ Software --- Office
> & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54
> C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA
> 
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From jvj at golden.net  Sun Jul 26 23:50:35 2015
From: jvj at golden.net (John Johnson)
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 23:50:35 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Blog post: Continuing Adventures with Ubuntu and
 Apache.
In-Reply-To: <55B4F351.706@golden.net>
References: <55B4F351.706@golden.net>
Message-ID: <55B5AA8B.2000304@golden.net>

Thanks to an eagle eyed Boy Scout (B.S.) I have been informed of some 
typos and errors in the blog post.
These yypos and errors have been corrected.
Please feel free to inform of others.
And to ask for clarification.
Or to offer advice for the next go around.
JohnJ

On 2015-07-26 10:48, John Johnson wrote:
> Continuing Adventures with Ubuntu and Apache.
>
> In a previous blog post "Installing LAMP on Ubuntu 11.04 aka The Natty 
> Narwhal" I documented my start with Ubuntu and the Apache webserver 
> suite.
> see: http://kwlug.org/node/824
>
> This blog post was updated a few times as the installation was updated.
> Recently, I went through another update exercise and instead of 
> updating the previous blog post, I elected to make another blog post.
> see: http://kwlug.org/node/989
>
> I am sure that this is "old hat" to many on this list.
> But this work is not "old hat" to me.
> And I would suspect that I am not alone in this.
>
> JohnJ
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
> -----
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.6081 / Virus Database: 4401/10311 - Release Date: 
> 07/26/15
>
>






From jothamapaloo at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 08:20:54 2015
From: jothamapaloo at gmail.com (Jotham Apaloo)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 09:20:54 -0300
Subject: [kwlug-disc] more systemd (template units and --user mode)
Message-ID: <CAFGyCFK5jXXyMCmhqpvb7g+JyuGyu4cMp56ZyqaQ97iv3Qjhrg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi KWLUG crew,

After talking about timers, I thought I should share this.

I toyed with systemd user mode and template services some more last night.

I found it really useful for spawning emacs daemons for each virtual
development environment I run for various projects.

http://jotham-city.com/blog/2015/07/27/emacs-daemon-fun/

I forgot to add a predeactivate hook to stop the daemon >_<. Will fix in a
few days

Cheers,
Jotham

-- 
Jotham Apaloo
jothamapaloo at gmail.com
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From jvj at golden.net  Mon Jul 27 09:36:26 2015
From: jvj at golden.net (John Johnson)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 09:36:26 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Advanced(?) Git usage question
In-Reply-To: <C4E73857-D841-4EF0-8267-0547ACEB2D44@digitaljedi.ca>
References: <CAFgBy5_5WvVfzTAg8cZh3z5TUs3yCj1-uLX1Sn4Q3mMKyB5B_w@mail.gmail.com>	<20140410065258.GA11159@foursquare.net>	<CAFgBy5_R+6gLhu-c-LziM19XDK450XQ=_nWpKghVuh4oiHrFJw@mail.gmail.com>	<20140415232845.GC7368@foursquare.net>	<BE3E9735-A65D-4CF1-BE8A-613E5F187BC5@digitaljedi.ca>	<20140416000903.GA7966@foursquare.net>	<2E7AB484-C4AF-4142-966E-238E35AD9594@digitaljedi.ca>	<534DD32D.4040101@golden.net>	<20140416014420.GA8521@foursquare.net>	<534EA2C3.40103@golden.net>	<534F3965.4080905@golden.net>
	<534F51CC.80001@golden.net>
	<C4E73857-D841-4EF0-8267-0547ACEB2D44@digitaljedi.ca>
Message-ID: <55B633DA.9080909@golden.net>

I am revisiting a discussion about git, one that I spawned about 18 
months ago.
And I recalled that in the discussion was a suggestion that my use of 
the git console was "hardcore".
I can take a hint.

I used the Google to see if there was a was to "view" changes to a file 
without checking versions out from the git repo.
see: 
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/338436/is-there-a-quick-git-command-to-see-an-old-version-of-a-file
usage: gitk /path-to-file
comment: works very well

More results from the Google:
see: https://git-scm.com/download/gui/linux
excerpt:: Git comes with built-in GUI tools for committing (git-gui) and 
browsing (gitk) ...

And from the original discussion:
see: http://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/

Learning by doing.
Hopefully, in the right direction.

JohnJ

< ... edited ... >




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From hubert at uhoreg.ca  Mon Jul 27 13:57:02 2015
From: hubert at uhoreg.ca (Hubert Chathi)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 13:57:02 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
In-Reply-To: <CAKyYXORVYkpHrHnK46n8kHZdDj3d+wd37_A0zD3SVQdkK5Y=iQ@mail.gmail.com>
	(crankyoldbugger@gmail.com's message of "Wed, 22 Jul 2015 20:20:59
	+0000")
References: <CAN20qYrHFY-+HBbEZ5XLpTReyPZx1C-F4q6qvPuq+toW9_YgJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722173633.GB3707@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<2B52BADA113D0848A06BFF6C93971D111B9A72B5@ms-mail.theworkingcentre.org>
	<CAN20qYrVR0WiycY7J1Fbxb8GmR5w4dATKEin-d42aZbSDyP2-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722194018.GA2498@node1.localdomain>
	<CAN20qYqMu581dtp27bKAwy2Wu_+uZcdAFOeCih47VtCOtj9Y4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKyYXORVYkpHrHnK46n8kHZdDj3d+wd37_A0zD3SVQdkK5Y=iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87bnexscup.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 20:20:59 +0000, CrankyOldBugger <crankyoldbugger at gmail.com> said:

> Are you implying that you have trs-80s and C-64s to donate as well??
> In that case, I'll be over in a few minutes!

> Those two would look great next to my Apple Classic II...

OK, I've got a C-64 sitting in my basement that I've been reluctant to
get rid of, but if it's going to someone who would appreciate it rather
than getting binned, I would be willing to part with it.  It's not an
original C-64; it's a C-64c, which has a more modern (for the time)
look, and some updated chips, but is otherwise compatible with the
C-64.  I also have a monitor that goes with the C-64.  I'm unsure what
other accessories I still have.

I also have an Atari game system.  Again, I'm unsure what is included.

CrankyOldBugger, if you want them, you can take them.  If not, they're
up for grabs to anyone else on the list.




From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Mon Jul 27 14:02:59 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:02:59 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] KWLUG Library
In-Reply-To: <87bnexscup.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
References: <CAN20qYrHFY-+HBbEZ5XLpTReyPZx1C-F4q6qvPuq+toW9_YgJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722173633.GB3707@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<2B52BADA113D0848A06BFF6C93971D111B9A72B5@ms-mail.theworkingcentre.org>
	<CAN20qYrVR0WiycY7J1Fbxb8GmR5w4dATKEin-d42aZbSDyP2-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150722194018.GA2498@node1.localdomain>
	<CAN20qYqMu581dtp27bKAwy2Wu_+uZcdAFOeCih47VtCOtj9Y4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAKyYXORVYkpHrHnK46n8kHZdDj3d+wd37_A0zD3SVQdkK5Y=iQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<87bnexscup.fsf@desiato.home.uhoreg.ca>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOT6Qbx7ZaaMNQ5eZzNpYV1K-BL4HBSeBEaM6BmCbOuEmw@mail.gmail.com>

Score!

Yes, I would be very happy to take them off of your hands.  I'm nuts about
old systems too!

Thanks for thinking of me.

Contact me offlist, please, so that I can get your address and I'll come by
to pick up.  crankyoldbugger -at- gmail.com




On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 at 13:57 Hubert Chathi <hubert at uhoreg.ca> wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 20:20:59 +0000, CrankyOldBugger <
> crankyoldbugger at gmail.com> said:
>
> > Are you implying that you have trs-80s and C-64s to donate as well??
> > In that case, I'll be over in a few minutes!
>
> > Those two would look great next to my Apple Classic II...
>
> OK, I've got a C-64 sitting in my basement that I've been reluctant to
> get rid of, but if it's going to someone who would appreciate it rather
> than getting binned, I would be willing to part with it.  It's not an
> original C-64; it's a C-64c, which has a more modern (for the time)
> look, and some updated chips, but is otherwise compatible with the
> C-64.  I also have a monitor that goes with the C-64.  I'm unsure what
> other accessories I still have.
>
> I also have an Atari game system.  Again, I'm unsure what is included.
>
> CrankyOldBugger, if you want them, you can take them.  If not, they're
> up for grabs to anyone else on the list.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
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From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Tue Jul 28 11:21:09 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (Jeff Smith)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 11:21:09 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] [KWCrypto] System Administrator Appreciation Day
 Dinner, 31 July 2015 [bjns]
In-Reply-To: <608646847.3008.1437937476@kornbluth.sobac.com>
References: <55A5D26F.1010908@sobac.com> <55B1466A.1090404@sobac.com>,
	<608646847.3008.1437937476@kornbluth.sobac.com>
Message-ID: <COL126-W174836E04DFE652FC15AD8D68D0@phx.gbl>

SysAdmin Day is soon upon us, so I thought I'd share this article by Bryan Lunduke (http://www.linux.com/news/enterprise/systems-management/842299-a-new-sysadmin-pledge-in-honor-of-sysadmin-day/)
Note: be sure to come to the Amazing Annual SysAdmin Dinner at Chen's Buffet on Friday night!

A New SysAdmin Pledge in Honor of SysAdmin Day
Monday, 27 July 2015 13:41	Bryan Lunduke
Bryan Lunduke, SUSE Social Media Marketing Manager.
This Friday is what I consider to be, without the slightest glimmer of doubt, the most important holiday of them all?
System Administrator Appreciation Day. ?SysAdmin Day?, for short. Or simply ?SAD,? for really short.
?Surely you jest!? you say. ?Reginald, my good man! Come over here and observe a rather silly thing that this Lunduke chap just posted to the world wide web!?
I jest not, my old-timey-sounding friend! SysAdmin Day, celebrated on the last Friday of July, marks the one day each year that we are ? obviously ? legally allowed to tell our SysAdmin that he or she has done a good job.
This most glorious of holidays came into existence in the year 2,000 ? making July 31st the 16th annual occurrence ? when this one particularly wise man, Ted Kekatos, decided that SysAdmins should be celebrated with their own holiday. With cake. And balloons. And confetti. (Those are some of the recommendations from none other than SysAdminDay.com. Apparently all SysAdmins love confetti. Who knew?)
In case you were wondering? Ted Kekatos is a System Administrator.
But that doesn't mean that Ted is biased! No, sir! It simply means that he, as a SysAdmin, was one of the most qualified out there to judge the importance of granting this noble profession its own holiday.
In fact, history is filled with examples of great people declaring a holiday for themselves. Take Christopher Columbus, for example. Upon discovering ?The New World?, Columbus immediately declared the second Monday in October to be ?Columbus Day? (to be celebrated with cake? and balloons? and confetti). It took a year or two to catch on, but before the decade was through, most of the world was already celebrating this new holiday. It's true. Look it up.
Ok, that is absolutely not true. Don't look it up. But it's on the Internet now. Which means, one day in the not-too-distant future, it will become true. So long as the Internet keeps running. Which it probably will. Because we have SysAdmins.
Really, when you think about it, SysAdmins are the MOST deserving of a holiday of any profession or person. Period. On the face of the Earth.
Your computer at work. The network at your office. Your email, file and web servers. Hell, even your printers. They all work because SysAdmins fix your computers and keep the world spinning.
If you think about it, the whole freaking Internet is working ? right now ? because of SysAdmins.
What did Christopher Columbus ever do? Took a cruise to the Bahamas then went back to Spain and grabbed a quick dinner at this great tapas restaurant he knows of. And he got his own holiday. When you think about it like that, it makes you wonder what took us, as a species, so long to recognize the profession that keeps our email sending and our Netflix streaming with a special holiday.
I mean, just give a quick read to the oath that every SysAdmin swears:?Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers...?
Wait. That's the mailman pledge. Why did I think of the mailman pledge? Oh! I remember, now.
?In brightest day, through Blackest Night, No other corps shall spread its light! Let those who...?
Nope. Nope. Hold on. That's Green Lantern.?
Is there no awesome pledge for SysAdmins? The closest I have been able to find is this snippet from Peter Hansteen's seminal work, Firewalling with OpenBSD's PF packet filter. It's not exactly a SysAdmin Pledge, but it's a good start.
?The Pledge of the Network Admin.This is my network. It is mine or technically my employer's, it is my responsibility and I care for it with all my heart.There are many other networks a lot like mine,but none are just like it.I solemnly swear that I will not mindlessly paste from HOWTOs.?
It's good. It's good. Just a little? long. System Administrators don't have time to lollygag around reciting oaths like this. They need something short. Something punchy. Something that conveys their pain and their strength. Their passion and their? disdain for printers. Here's my offering:
?At 2 am.I am on call.Mountain Dew powered.I hate this printer.?
Now go, SysAdmins! Enjoy your day! Enjoy the massive quantities of confetti you are sure to receive!





> From: bjonkman at sobac.com
> To: KWCrypto at kornbluth.sobac.com
> Subject: Re: [KWCrypto] System Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner, 31 July 2015 [bjns]
> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2015 19:03:52 -0400
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> And the results are in!
> 
> - From the Straw Poll at http://strawpoll.me/5008195/r:
> 
> Chen?s Buffet: 4 votes
> Star Wok: 1 vote
> Lancaster Smokehouse: 0 votes
> 
> - From these comments:
> Chen?s Buffet: 1.5 votes
> Star Wok: .5 votes
> Lancaster Smokehouse: 1 vote
> 
> (those .5 votes are your fault, Dan! "I now therefore support either
> of those buffet places"...)
> 
> I got no additional votes in e-mail that weren?t duplicates of the
> comments or the Straw Poll, so the clear winner is Chen?s Buffet with
> 5.5 votes!
> 
> I?ll call for a reservation tomorrow (Monday), and see you there on
> Friday, 31 July 2015 from 6:00pm to 9:00pm!
> 
> Chen?s Buffet
> 50 Weber Street North,
> Waterloo, Ontario
> 
> Map: http://osm.org/go/ZXnbrayr--?m=
> 
> ?Bob.
> 

 		 	   		  
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From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 12:02:13 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (Jeff Smith)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 12:02:13 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] System Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner,
	31 July 2015
In-Reply-To: <753730006.3011.1438082481@kornbluth.sobac.com>
References: <55A5D26F.1010908@sobac.com>, <55B1466A.1090404@sobac.com>,
	<608646847.3008.1437937476@kornbluth.sobac.com>,
	<753730006.3011.1438082481@kornbluth.sobac.com>
Message-ID: <COL126-W11792F25A218F70C74CC3CD68C0@phx.gbl>

Just to clear up some confusion...
We're meeting at Chen's Buffet at 6:00.  
If you Google the restaurant, you'll be directed to the old location near the universities.  If you try finding it via Google Maps, it will show a Roger's retail outlet at the site.
So..
The correct address is 50 Weber Street N, Waterloo, ON N2J 2J9
Chen's Buffet is where Star Wok used to be.  It's at the corner of Bridgeport and Weber, in the same lot as the Bridgeport Plaza.  Across the street is a Shopper's Drug Mart and a beer store.
I don't think they have a website yet, but don't worry, we have our best people working on the problem....
Wifeski and I ate there a  couple of weeks ago and enjoyed it.  Good food.  A wee bit on the pricey side, but it's a buffet so eat all you want.  And the place looked nice and clean as well.

 		 	   		   		 	   		  
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From chaslinux at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 12:40:59 2015
From: chaslinux at gmail.com (CHARLES MCCOLM)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 12:40:59 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] System Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner,
 31 July 2015
Message-ID: <1lljsh6pmx65hhcw0s2d0fxa.1438188059039@email.android.com>

Not sure Maria and I can make it that early... but we're planning to go.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Jeff Smith <crankyoldbugger at gmail.com> 
Date:07-29-2015  12:02 PM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: Kitchener Waterloo Cryptography Interest Group <kwcrypto at kornbluth.sobac.com>, kwlug-disc at kwlug.org 
Cc:  
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] System Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner,	31 July 2015 

Just to clear up some confusion...

We're meeting at Chen's Buffet at 6:00.  

If you Google the restaurant, you'll be directed to the old location near the universities.  If you try finding it via Google Maps, it will show a Roger's retail outlet at the site.

So..

The correct address is 50 Weber Street N, Waterloo, ON N2J 2J9

Chen's Buffet is where Star Wok used to be.  It's at the corner of Bridgeport and Weber, in the same lot as the Bridgeport Plaza.  Across the street is a Shopper's Drug Mart and a beer store.

I don't think they have a website yet, but don't worry, we have our best people working on the problem....

Wifeski and I ate there a  couple of weeks ago and enjoyed it.  Good food.  A wee bit on the pricey side, but it's a buffet so eat all you want.  And the place looked nice and clean as well.


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From kb at 2bits.com  Wed Jul 29 12:52:56 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 12:52:56 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW2vPSRHq8QbWTcNpLZMFJQKGDVSS6qRJ1+pSSg_UqzyBA@mail.gmail.com>

So, I had an SSD lying around for a couple of years (long story, bought to
benchmark against spinning rust disks for a client project). My laptop disk
died 1.5 months ago, and when checking SMART values for it, it was not good.

Therefore, I decided to put the SSD drive in the laptop, and copy the
spinning drive to it. I blogged on the details of how to do that separately.

When I run SMART on the SSD drives (smartctl --all /dev/sda), I get the
following table:

For those who have been using SSDs for a while, my question is: should I be
worried about lines with ID 1 and 233?

Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED
WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x0000   006   000   000    Old_age
Offline      -       6
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age
Offline      -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age
Offline      -       0
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age
Offline      -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age
Offline      -       796
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age
Offline      -       74
232 Lifetime_Writes         0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age
Offline      -       3033270496
233 Media_Wearout_Indicator 0x0000   100   000   000    Old_age
Offline      -       100

-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 13:26:16 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 13:26:16 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] System Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner,
 31 July 2015
In-Reply-To: <1lljsh6pmx65hhcw0s2d0fxa.1438188059039@email.android.com>
References: <1lljsh6pmx65hhcw0s2d0fxa.1438188059039@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOT_xUssvQfgyDdDMatr9kVk-g7=WAzpSYMJfahRkJ8dhw@mail.gmail.com>

Great.  See you guys there.
On Jul 29, 2015 12:42 PM, "CHARLES MCCOLM" <chaslinux at gmail.com> wrote:

> Not sure Maria and I can make it that early... but we're planning to go.
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Jeff Smith <crankyoldbugger at gmail.com>
> Date:07-29-2015 12:02 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: Kitchener Waterloo Cryptography Interest Group <
> kwcrypto at kornbluth.sobac.com>, kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] System Administrator Appreciation Day Dinner, 31
> July 2015
>
> Just to clear up some confusion...
>
> We're meeting at Chen's Buffet at 6:00.
>
> If you Google the restaurant, you'll be directed to the old location near
> the universities.  If you try finding it via Google Maps, it will show a
> Roger's retail outlet at the site.
>
> So..
>
> The correct address is 50 Weber Street N, Waterloo, ON N2J 2J9
>
> Chen's Buffet is where Star Wok used to be.  It's at the corner of
> Bridgeport and Weber, in the same lot as the Bridgeport Plaza.  Across the
> street is a Shopper's Drug Mart and a beer store.
>
> I don't think they have a website yet, but don't worry, we have our best
> people working on the problem....
>
> Wifeski and I ate there a  couple of weeks ago and enjoyed it.  Good
> food.  A wee bit on the pricey side, but it's a buffet so eat all you
> want.  And the place looked nice and clean as well.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
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From ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com  Wed Jul 29 13:37:47 2015
From: ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com (L.D. Paniak)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 13:37:47 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW2vPSRHq8QbWTcNpLZMFJQKGDVSS6qRJ1+pSSg_UqzyBA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+TuoW2vPSRHq8QbWTcNpLZMFJQKGDVSS6qRJ1+pSSg_UqzyBA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55B90F6B.6050608@fourpisolutions.com>

With less than 800 power-on hours, this drive would have had to seen
rather aggressive continuous writes to reach the end of its endurance.
I doubt you have anything to worry about here.
Raw read error rate is generally not useful info for end users.
Reallocated sector count is probably the attribute to watch on this drive.

What make/model is this SSD?  Hard to tell if lifetime writes are LBAs
or bytes.
Maybe write 1MB of non-compressible file to the drive and see how this
value changes.  Either way you should be OK.

The analogous information for the Samsung 840 Pro in my laptop is:
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE     
UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail 
Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age  
Always       -       4639
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   098   098   000    Old_age  
Always       -       1300
177 Wear_Leveling_Count     0x0013   099   099   000    Pre-fail 
Always       -       3
179 Used_Rsvd_Blk_Cnt_Tot   0x0013   100   100   010    Pre-fail 
Always       -       0
181 Program_Fail_Cnt_Total  0x0032   100   100   010    Old_age  
Always       -       0
182 Erase_Fail_Count_Total  0x0032   100   100   010    Old_age  
Always       -       0
183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0013   100   100   010    Pre-fail 
Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age  
Always       -       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0032   070   055   000    Old_age  
Always       -       30
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   200   200   000    Old_age  
Always       -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   100   100   000    Old_age  
Always       -       0
235 Unknown_Attribute       0x0012   099   099   000    Old_age  
Always       -       84
241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age  
Always       -       4381884472


Here LBAs are 512bytes.  Attribute 241 says I have written
4381884472*512B = 2.2x10^12B = 2.2TB
I would expect to get 100TB of writes on the drive before starting to worry.
The drive is rated for 300TB write.

Tests of this kind of drive have gotten over 2.4PB of writes in before
the drive quit:
http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead


On 07/29/2015 12:52 PM, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> So, I had an SSD lying around for a couple of years (long story,
> bought to benchmark against spinning rust disks for a client project).
> My laptop disk died 1.5 months ago, and when checking SMART values for
> it, it was not good.
>
> Therefore, I decided to put the SSD drive in the laptop, and copy the
> spinning drive to it. I blogged on the details of how to do that
> separately.
>
> When I run SMART on the SSD drives (smartctl --all /dev/sda), I get
> the following table:
>
> For those who have been using SSDs for a while, my question is: should
> I be worried about lines with ID 1 and 233?
>
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE     
> UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x0000   006   000   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       6
>   3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       0
>   4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       0
>   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       0
>   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       796
>  12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       74
> 232 Lifetime_Writes         0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       3033270496
> 233 Media_Wearout_Indicator 0x0000   100   000   000    Old_age  
> Offline      -       100
>
> -- 
> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
> 2bits.com <http://2bits.com>, Inc.
> Fast Reliable Drupal
> Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
> Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
> For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple,
> and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org

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From kb at 2bits.com  Wed Jul 29 14:44:38 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 14:44:38 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <55B90F6B.6050608@fourpisolutions.com>
References: <CA+TuoW2vPSRHq8QbWTcNpLZMFJQKGDVSS6qRJ1+pSSg_UqzyBA@mail.gmail.com>
	<55B90F6B.6050608@fourpisolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW3Jv3xkd93AjMnOhK6UE2T9z==69No4OFkL-C3t6=z=gg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Lori.

The drive is an OCZ Vertex4, 256GB.

On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 1:37 PM, L.D. Paniak <ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com>
wrote:

>  With less than 800 power-on hours, this drive would have had to seen
> rather aggressive continuous writes to reach the end of its endurance.
> I doubt you have anything to worry about here.
> Raw read error rate is generally not useful info for end users.
> Reallocated sector count is probably the attribute to watch on this drive.
>
> What make/model is this SSD?  Hard to tell if lifetime writes are LBAs or
> bytes.
> Maybe write 1MB of non-compressible file to the drive and see how this
> value changes.  Either way you should be OK.
>
> The analogous information for the Samsung 840 Pro in my laptop is:
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED
> WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail
> Always       -       0
>   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age
> Always       -       4639
>  12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   098   098   000    Old_age
> Always       -       1300
> 177 Wear_Leveling_Count     0x0013   099   099   000    Pre-fail
> Always       -       3
> 179 Used_Rsvd_Blk_Cnt_Tot   0x0013   100   100   010    Pre-fail
> Always       -       0
> 181 Program_Fail_Cnt_Total  0x0032   100   100   010    Old_age
> Always       -       0
> 182 Erase_Fail_Count_Total  0x0032   100   100   010    Old_age
> Always       -       0
> 183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0013   100   100   010    Pre-fail
> Always       -       0
> 187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age
> Always       -       0
> 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0032   070   055   000    Old_age
> Always       -       30
> 195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   200   200   000    Old_age
> Always       -       0
> 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   100   100   000    Old_age
> Always       -       0
> 235 Unknown_Attribute       0x0012   099   099   000    Old_age
> Always       -       84
> 241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age
> Always       -       4381884472
>
>
> Here LBAs are 512bytes.  Attribute 241 says I have written
> 4381884472*512B = 2.2x10^12B = 2.2TB
> I would expect to get 100TB of writes on the drive before starting to
> worry.
> The drive is rated for 300TB write.
>
> Tests of this kind of drive have gotten over 2.4PB of writes in before the
> drive quit:
>
> http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead
>
>
>
> On 07/29/2015 12:52 PM, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
>
>  So, I had an SSD lying around for a couple of years (long story, bought
> to benchmark against spinning rust disks for a client project). My laptop
> disk died 1.5 months ago, and when checking SMART values for it, it was not
> good.
>
> Therefore, I decided to put the SSD drive in the laptop, and copy the
> spinning drive to it. I blogged on the details of how to do that separately.
>
>  When I run SMART on the SSD drives (smartctl --all /dev/sda), I get the
> following table:
>
> For those who have been using SSDs for a while, my question is: should I
> be worried about lines with ID 1 and 233?
>
> Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
> ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED
> WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
>   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x0000   006   000   000    Old_age
> Offline      -       6
>   3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age
> Offline      -       0
>   4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age
> Offline      -       0
>   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age
> Offline      -       0
>   9 Power_On_Hours          0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age
> Offline      -       796
>  12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age
> Offline      -       74
> 232 Lifetime_Writes         0x0000   100   100   000    Old_age
> Offline      -       3033270496
> 233 Media_Wearout_Indicator 0x0000   100   000   000    Old_age
> Offline      -       100
>
> --
> Khalid M. Baheyeldin
> 2bits.com, Inc.
> Fast Reliable Drupal
> Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
> Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
> For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
> wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing listkwlug-disc at kwlug.orghttp://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
>


-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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From bob+kwlug at softscape.ca  Wed Jul 29 17:10:12 2015
From: bob+kwlug at softscape.ca (bob+kwlug at softscape.ca)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:10:12 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] FYI, zbackup
Message-ID: <192701d0ca42$f763f5c0$e62be140$@softscape.ca>

Hello folks.

I was speaking with Chris after his talk on BTRFS and we got to talking
about a strategy to back up BTRFS file systems to a public cloud provider
efficiently while maintaining the privacy of your data.

To that end I thought that zbackup (http://zbackup.org) might fit the bill.
He asked me to post that to the list for general discussion and perhaps as a
reminder to himself about it.

The tool itself works something like this:

tar c somestuff | zbackup backup --non-encrypted REPO/backups/somestuff.tar

where the "REPO/" directory is something initialized by zbackup and contains
the compressed blocks and deduplication meta-info.

Accordingly, to recover things you would do this:

zbackup restore REPO/backupssomstuff.tar | tar xv

Since it just takes a stream of bytes on stdin and "dehydrates" them and is
able to rehydrate them into the same stream of bytes, you can pipe anything
you want to into it (eg: zfs send!)

Also, if memory serves, you can use some pretty strong crypto on the
repository itself. I was thinking that keeping a local, encrypted REPO
directory that you would rsync up to the cloud would be a decent solution
georedundant backup solution.

I have used this recently to take 2.5TB of uncompressed daily database dumps
and shrink them down to 7.8G. Admittedly, this data lends itself to a high
deduplication ratio, but the prospects are intriguing for zfs/btrfs send
bundles.

Anyway, check it out if you get a chance and let the list know your
experiences with the tool.

Thanks,
Bob.











From paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul 29 21:28:50 2015
From: paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca (Paul Nijjar)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 21:28:50 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] And so it begins...
Message-ID: <20150730012850.GB3721@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>

https://ics-cert.us-cert.gov/alerts/ICS-ALERT-15-203-01
-- 
http://pnijjar.freeshell.org




From kb at 2bits.com  Wed Jul 29 21:47:59 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 21:47:59 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Re-enable hibernation after disk upgrade
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW3WjOiPGfnTHB8fLiPbOH-Lj9NsDkCZrY3VpDH-C2kHdA@mail.gmail.com>

If you ever change your laptop's disk, and wonder why hibernation is no
longer working, then check this article (Ubuntu centric).

Basically, there are a couple of places where you should change the swap
partition UUIDs

You can get the UUID of the swap partition using:

ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid/

The rest is in this article:

http://www.jasom.net/how-to-enable-hibernation-in-lubuntu-14-04
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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul 29 22:06:04 2015
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 22:06:04 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] And so it begins...
In-Reply-To: <20150730012850.GB3721@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
References: <20150730012850.GB3721@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
Message-ID: <20150730020603.GA19455@node1.localdomain>

On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 09:28:50PM -0400, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> https://ics-cert.us-cert.gov/alerts/ICS-ALERT-15-203-01

Nobody got fired over this, so there will be more...
-- 
William




From crankyoldbugger at gmail.com  Wed Jul 29 22:25:21 2015
From: crankyoldbugger at gmail.com (CrankyOldBugger)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 02:25:21 +0000
Subject: [kwlug-disc] And so it begins...
In-Reply-To: <20150730020603.GA19455@node1.localdomain>
References: <20150730012850.GB3721@nb-heartburn.theworkingcentre.org>
	<20150730020603.GA19455@node1.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAKyYXOQVesSEa8x2TR6iZerroksFVnouXisr-ZfO=x0a0uivZg@mail.gmail.com>

Well then, I guess I'll have to forgo buying a brand new car this year..
that makes 52 years in a row now...


On Wed, 29 Jul 2015 at 22:06 William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 09:28:50PM -0400, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> > https://ics-cert.us-cert.gov/alerts/ICS-ALERT-15-203-01
>
> Nobody got fired over this, so there will be more...
> --
> William
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>
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From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul 29 23:11:38 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B.S.)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 03:11:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] And so it begins...
In-Reply-To: <20150730020603.GA19455@node1.localdomain>
References: <20150730020603.GA19455@node1.localdomain>
Message-ID: <964523798.5429026.1438225898022.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

The sad part is ... such access (via cell, even) should never have been enabled or designed in in the first place. Even wi-fi access is doubtful - at least post-delivery. Such capability would have to have been engineered in, passed QA, let alone the spec writers, approval checkpoints ... Bad idea all around. If the first rule of security is physical security (door locks - NOT EXTERNALLY CONTROLLABLE!), the second rule ...

Never mind auto-alerts ... your car has been accessed, if this is unexpected ...

google/gmail/android does this - this is a solved problem.


Nobody should think it's only Fiat Chrysler with the ability.


I am so minded of the kerfuffle some years back about NSA requiring a back door to a crypto chip. (I forget the details.)



----- Original Message -----
> From: William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
> To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> Cc: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 10:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] And so it begins...
> 
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 09:28:50PM -0400, Paul Nijjar wrote:
>>  https://ics-cert.us-cert.gov/alerts/ICS-ALERT-15-203-01
> 
> Nobody got fired over this, so there will be more...




From kb at 2bits.com  Wed Jul 29 23:24:05 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 23:24:05 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] And so it begins...
In-Reply-To: <964523798.5429026.1438225898022.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20150730020603.GA19455@node1.localdomain>
	<964523798.5429026.1438225898022.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW2LP5eSOacE5veLZf3TEpjiDMWPGrQg0i5G-=Qz-4Gqrw@mail.gmail.com>

You are referring to the Clipper chip?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipper_chip


For the FCA remote hack ...

As with airlines, where avionics and "other stuff" are separate, cars
should have the ECU, power train and other essential features separate from
other stuff (entertainment, climate, OnStar et al, ...)

Upgrades should not be over the air. Even if Tesla does it! It should be
via a physical connection.

OBD-II comes to mind, but even that is causing problems in Europe where
crooks have crafted contraptions that are able to duplicate keys.

The more connected the world is, the more dumb (and stupid) devices that
will be accessed. Now it is cars, later hospital equipment, HVAC, and then
IoT ...

On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 11:11 PM, B.S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> The sad part is ... such access (via cell, even) should never have been
> enabled or designed in in the first place. Even wi-fi access is doubtful -
> at least post-delivery. Such capability would have to have been engineered
> in, passed QA, let alone the spec writers, approval checkpoints ... Bad
> idea all around. If the first rule of security is physical security (door
> locks - NOT EXTERNALLY CONTROLLABLE!), the second rule ...
>
> Never mind auto-alerts ... your car has been accessed, if this is
> unexpected ...
>
> google/gmail/android does this - this is a solved problem.
>
>
> Nobody should think it's only Fiat Chrysler with the ability.
>
>
> I am so minded of the kerfuffle some years back about NSA requiring a back
> door to a crypto chip. (I forget the details.)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca>
> > To: kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> > Cc:
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 10:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] And so it begins...
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 09:28:50PM -0400, Paul Nijjar wrote:
> >>  https://ics-cert.us-cert.gov/alerts/ICS-ALERT-15-203-01
> >
> > Nobody got fired over this, so there will be more...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>



-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul 29 23:24:24 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B.S.)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 03:24:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <55B90F6B.6050608@fourpisolutions.com>
References: <55B90F6B.6050608@fourpisolutions.com>
Message-ID: <729195421.5482793.1438226664745.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

* Aside from Khalid's specific case ...

Is it fair to say that, in general, an SSD will be OK ... until it's not. And even then the written data will still be readable / recoverable? (Unlike spinning drives where when they stop spinning, that's it / that's all.)

And ... I guess, aside from the filesystem suddenly going RO, how does a failing / failed SSD typically present itself?


* IIRC, threads involving Khalid and his / this specific SSD and his unhappiness with this particular defective model noted a spectacularly bad product that entirely fails (even reading) far sooner than reasonable. IIUC the issues with this model was substantially a one off for SSDs, not expected to appear in others. Particularly nothing more recent? (It's just too bad Khalid happened to be one of the unlucky victims. There was great unhappiness in the land ...)

>________________________________
> From: L.D. Paniak <ldpaniak at fourpisolutions.com>
>To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 1:37 PM
>Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
>
>

.
.
.
>I doubt you have anything to worry about here.
.
.
.
> I would expect to get 100TB of writes on the drive before starting
   to worry.
>The drive is rated for 300TB write.
>
>Tests of this kind of drive have gotten over 2.4PB of writes in
   before the drive quit:
>http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead
>
>
>On 07/29/2015 12:52 PM, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
>
>So, I had an SSD lying around for a couple of years (long story, bought to benchmark against spinning rust disks for a client project). My laptop disk died 1.5 months ago, and when checking SMART values for it, it was not good.

.
.
.




From kb at 2bits.com  Wed Jul 29 23:43:41 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2015 23:43:41 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <729195421.5482793.1438226664745.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <55B90F6B.6050608@fourpisolutions.com>
	<729195421.5482793.1438226664745.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW3rXFBe5DvW4MfDeJtXMg2Ch59xTWBJjqmEWA843eTG0A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 11:24 PM, B.S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> * IIRC, threads involving Khalid and his / this specific SSD and his
> unhappiness with this particular defective model noted a spectacularly bad
> product that entirely fails (even reading) far sooner than reasonable. IIUC
> the issues with this model was substantially a one off for SSDs, not
> expected to appear in others. Particularly nothing more recent? (It's just
> too bad Khalid happened to be one of the unlucky victims. There was great
> unhappiness in the land ...)
>

Some clarifications, and history:

The OCZ Vertex 4 SSD that I have did not fail (yet). Initially, I got it
maybe 3 years ago to test MySQL performance on SSD. It did not show
improvement perhaps because of other bottlenecks in the server (SATA
controller?)

I was hesitant to make it my main laptop drive, because of the bad
reputation for that model (whether it is true or not).

So, it was on a shelf for a long time. Then a year ago, I needed to revive
a laptop with a decent/recent CPU, but broken hinge, to make it a
transcoding machine (for the PVR videos). That SSD was lying around, so I
used it.

The transcoding was not done to/from the SSD. The SSD was just for root,
programs, logs. All the videos (original and transcoded) were done on
external USB 3.0 drives.

Then my 7 year old laptop's Toshiba 500GB disk died without warning (can't
remember if I checked SMART or not). So, I replaced it with a Seagate 500GB
that I used for backup a couple of years back.

When that Seagate's SMART data showed it is not in the best of health, I
changed it with the SSD, since it has endured for a year without issues.

The transcoding machine got a used 2.5" Hitachi/Apple spinning disk to put
in the transcoding machine.

The other thing that encouraged me to move to the SSD I had was the
endurance study, which as Lori said, is 200 TB of writes.

http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead

I also have daily backups of my laptop's home directory, so losing a drive
will just mean downtime, not data loss.

All that made me switch to the SSD that I had on the shelf for so long.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Wed Jul 29 23:59:41 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B.S.)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 03:59:41 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW3rXFBe5DvW4MfDeJtXMg2Ch59xTWBJjqmEWA843eTG0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+TuoW3rXFBe5DvW4MfDeJtXMg2Ch59xTWBJjqmEWA843eTG0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <975232439.5482798.1438228781253.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks Khalid ... good info.

Just got through Lori's link, myself (thanks Lori, a good and entertaining read!). I noted the article says the average user won't write more than a few TB a year, and that even MLC SSDs should get 100's of TB of life. That would be decades. Rather reassuring. [Inferring inexpensive is fine and paying more than the least is an unnecessary price premium?]

It also notes that SMART will alert you LONG before the drive really dies - years even, at a couple TB / year? And that when it dies ... it's really dead. One last reboot and it's a brick. As Lori notes, the reallocated sector count seems to be the real tell.

So, 'apt-get install smartmontools' and forget about it until it tells you otherwise, and likely decades until you will?

[So I can be less worried if the drive has swap / holds vms? Warnings will be issued when appropriate, and even then ceasing use of the SSD for such will leave a long life for / and other normal use?]

>________________________________
> From: Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com>
>To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2015 11:43 PM
>Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
> 
>
>
>On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 11:24 PM, B.S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>* IIRC, threads involving Khalid and his / this specific SSD and his unhappiness with this particular defective model noted a spectacularly bad product that entirely fails (even reading) far sooner than reasonable. IIUC the issues with this model was substantially a one off for SSDs, not expected to appear in others. Particularly nothing more recent? (It's just too bad Khalid happened to be one of the unlucky victims. There was great unhappiness in the land ...)
>>
>
>
>Some clarifications, and history:
>
>
>The OCZ Vertex 4 SSD that I have did not fail (yet). Initially, I got it maybe 3 years ago to test MySQL performance on SSD. It did not show improvement perhaps because of other bottlenecks in the server (SATA controller?)
>
>
>I was hesitant to make it my main laptop drive, because of the bad reputation for that model (whether it is true or not).
>
>
>So, it was on a shelf for a long time. Then a year ago, I needed to revive a laptop with a decent/recent CPU, but broken hinge, to make it a transcoding machine (for the PVR videos). That SSD was lying around, so I used it.
>
>
>The transcoding was not done to/from the SSD. The SSD was just for root, programs, logs. All the videos (original and transcoded) were done on external USB 3.0 drives.
>
>
>Then my 7 year old laptop's Toshiba 500GB disk died without warning (can't remember if I checked SMART or not). So, I replaced it with a Seagate 500GB that I used for backup a couple of years back. 
>
>When that Seagate's SMART data showed it is not in the best of health, I changed it with the SSD, since it has endured for a year without issues.
>
>The transcoding machine got a used 2.5" Hitachi/Apple spinning disk to put in the transcoding machine. 
>
>
>The other thing that encouraged me to move to the SSD I had was the endurance study, which as Lori said, is 200 TB of writes.
>
>
>
>
>
>http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead
>
>
>I also have daily backups of my laptop's home directory, so losing a drive will just mean downtime, not data loss. 
>
>
>All that made me switch to the SSD that I had on the shelf for so long.




From aklists at mixdown.ca  Thu Jul 30 00:01:20 2015
From: aklists at mixdown.ca (Andrew Kohlsmith (mailing lists account))
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 00:01:20 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] And so it begins...
In-Reply-To: <964523798.5429026.1438225898022.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20150730020603.GA19455@node1.localdomain>
	<964523798.5429026.1438225898022.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <924CC1A9-3A6C-4E1F-B4B3-B7A14D02B268@mixdown.ca>

> On Jul 29, 2015, at 11:11 PM, B.S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> The sad part is ... such access (via cell, even) should never have been enabled or designed in in the first place. Even wi-fi access is doubtful - at least post-delivery. Such capability would have to have been engineered in, passed QA, let alone the spec writers, approval checkpoints ... Bad idea all around. If the first rule of security is physical security (door locks - NOT EXTERNALLY CONTROLLABLE!), the second rule ?

See this is where I disagree. I *want* my car to be accessible over the ?net (cellular or wifi). One of my (many) ?spare time? projects (Ha!) is a gateway for my own vehicle, just for curiosity?s sake.

The difference is that I want all those systems gatewayed off/firewalled when the vehicle is in motion. And I most certainly do not want some third party to have access to it, moving or not.

In my mind:
Strike 1: ?Hey let?s have read/write access to the engine CAN bus(es) over UConnect!?
Strike 2: ?Who needs a physical dongle to be in place to enable such access??
Strike 3: ?Security review? Whats that??

I actually am very happy and welcoming of the whole idea of IoT. What terrifies me is the fact that embedded guys for the most part pay zero attention to security. There are rules in place (MISRA) which should help with the vulnerabilities, but if the Toyota unintended acceleration gong show is any indication of the state of things, MISRA compliance is paid lip service at best.



From aklists at mixdown.ca  Thu Jul 30 00:06:31 2015
From: aklists at mixdown.ca (Andrew Kohlsmith (mailing lists account))
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 00:06:31 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] And so it begins...
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW2LP5eSOacE5veLZf3TEpjiDMWPGrQg0i5G-=Qz-4Gqrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20150730020603.GA19455@node1.localdomain>
	<964523798.5429026.1438225898022.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+TuoW2LP5eSOacE5veLZf3TEpjiDMWPGrQg0i5G-=Qz-4Gqrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C46E2B4-F459-4DE9-B601-F94BF4426403@mixdown.ca>

> On Jul 29, 2015, at 11:24 PM, Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com> wrote:
> As with airlines, where avionics and "other stuff" are separate, cars should have the ECU, power train and other essential features separate from other stuff (entertainment, climate, OnStar et al, ?)

It?s not that easy. These systems need a (limited) ability to talk to each other, but with avionics it?s done over one-way links and the gateways are very strictly controlled. DO178 is no joke, and if you don?t play by the rules, your LRU doesn?t get certified.  With MISRA it seems that nobody really tests against it or rather that there is no real consequence to failing. I?m not even sure if MISRA stipulates anything about process regarding inter-bus communication (probably not).

> OBD-II comes to mind, but even that is causing problems in Europe where crooks have crafted contraptions that are able to duplicate keys.

OBD doesn?t help much with the keys. What people are finding is that you can play tricks on the OBD network because (surprise surprise) there is no security whatsoever involved. Replay attacks are the most common. The immobilizer circumvention has more to do with plain old crappy security than OBD.

-A.





From aklists at mixdown.ca  Thu Jul 30 00:10:15 2015
From: aklists at mixdown.ca (Andrew Kohlsmith (mailing lists account))
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 00:10:15 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <975232439.5482798.1438228781253.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CA+TuoW3rXFBe5DvW4MfDeJtXMg2Ch59xTWBJjqmEWA843eTG0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<975232439.5482798.1438228781253.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <54962CD6-5B7A-42FD-A157-761E894209CB@mixdown.ca>

> On Jul 29, 2015, at 11:59 PM, B.S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
> It also notes that SMART will alert you LONG before the drive really dies - years even, at a couple TB / year? And that when it dies ... it's really dead. One last reboot and it's a brick. As Lori notes, the reallocated sector count seems to be the real tell.

Is this SSD-specific? My experience with SMART and spinning platters is that if SMART reports the drive is fine, be wary. I?ve never ever had a spinning platter SMART warning flag a failing drive, only my RAID array saying that one of the drives has failed because the kernel dropped it.

This is based on a good decade worth of smartd running on drives from all the major vendors. Maybe they?ve finally got it working well with SSDs, but I don?t trust SMART. Not one bit.

-A.





From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Thu Jul 30 00:54:36 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B.S.)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 04:54:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <54962CD6-5B7A-42FD-A157-761E894209CB@mixdown.ca>
References: <54962CD6-5B7A-42FD-A157-761E894209CB@mixdown.ca>
Message-ID: <1441163511.6099868.1438232076449.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>



----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Kohlsmith (mailing lists account) <aklists at mixdown.ca>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 12:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
> 
>>  On Jul 29, 2015, at 11:59 PM, B.S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>  It also notes that SMART will alert you LONG before the drive really dies - 
> years even, at a couple TB / year? And that when it dies ... it's really 
> dead. One last reboot and it's a brick. As Lori notes, the reallocated 
> sector count seems to be the real tell.
> 
> Is this SSD-specific? My experience with SMART and spinning platters is that if 
> SMART reports the drive is fine, be wary. I?ve never ever had a spinning platter 
> SMART warning flag a failing drive, only my RAID array saying that one of the 
> drives has failed because the kernel dropped it.
> 
> This is based on a good decade worth of smartd running on drives from all the 
> major vendors. Maybe they?ve finally got it working well with SSDs, but I don?t 
> trust SMART. Not one bit.

Others on this list deeply share your mistrust of (spinning platter) SMART, especially for false positives. I don't believe there is a problem with the intent, merely It Just Doesn't Work (tm). (As an effective tool / predictor / implementation.) And I don't dispute / I do trust their opinions.

However, the one takeaway that has seemed solid to me is ... if it doesn't give warning, you're largely OK. (At least as OK as with no smart at all.) But if it does give warning ... beware the high likelihood of it being a false positive. And better a false positive than no warning at all - you may unnecessarily or prematurely take corrective action, but better than the reverse. And one can run further cross-verification checks. (But I forget what they might be.)

If this isn't a reasonable take on it, I'd sure like to know.




From chaslinux at gmail.com  Thu Jul 30 07:40:12 2015
From: chaslinux at gmail.com (CHARLES MCCOLM)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 07:40:12 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
Message-ID: <nn76flkl7cx45iv8pjovx7j3.1438256412141@email.android.com>

The last time smart told me I had an issue with a drive it did so when the cheapest 2TB was only $69, guess it wasn't just smart but lucky. ..


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: "B.S." <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> 
Date:07-30-2015  12:54 AM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> 
Cc:  
Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs 



----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Kohlsmith (mailing lists account) <aklists at mixdown.ca>
> To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 12:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
> 
>>  On Jul 29, 2015, at 11:59 PM, B.S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>  It also notes that SMART will alert you LONG before the drive really dies - 
> years even, at a couple TB / year? And that when it dies ... it's really 
> dead. One last reboot and it's a brick. As Lori notes, the reallocated 
> sector count seems to be the real tell.
> 
> Is this SSD-specific? My experience with SMART and spinning platters is that if 
> SMART reports the drive is fine, be wary. I?ve never ever had a spinning platter 
> SMART warning flag a failing drive, only my RAID array saying that one of the 
> drives has failed because the kernel dropped it.
> 
> This is based on a good decade worth of smartd running on drives from all the 
> major vendors. Maybe they?ve finally got it working well with SSDs, but I don?t 
> trust SMART. Not one bit.

Others on this list deeply share your mistrust of (spinning platter) SMART, especially for false positives. I don't believe there is a problem with the intent, merely It Just Doesn't Work (tm). (As an effective tool / predictor / implementation.) And I don't dispute / I do trust their opinions.

However, the one takeaway that has seemed solid to me is ... if it doesn't give warning, you're largely OK. (At least as OK as with no smart at all.) But if it does give warning ... beware the high likelihood of it being a false positive. And better a false positive than no warning at all - you may unnecessarily or prematurely take corrective action, but better than the reverse. And one can run further cross-verification checks. (But I forget what they might be.)

If this isn't a reasonable take on it, I'd sure like to know.


_______________________________________________
kwlug-disc mailing list
kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
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From kb at 2bits.com  Thu Jul 30 19:40:26 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 19:40:26 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] And so it begins...
In-Reply-To: <7C46E2B4-F459-4DE9-B601-F94BF4426403@mixdown.ca>
References: <20150730020603.GA19455@node1.localdomain>
	<964523798.5429026.1438225898022.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+TuoW2LP5eSOacE5veLZf3TEpjiDMWPGrQg0i5G-=Qz-4Gqrw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7C46E2B4-F459-4DE9-B601-F94BF4426403@mixdown.ca>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW2tsh_-M6y8tTUmVSd9yjKRR9wpSyPwkYd2y=mOJE=73Q@mail.gmail.com>

Another hack, OnStar being only a "matter of time" target.

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2954668/telematics/hacker-shows-he-can-locate-unlock-and-remote-start-gm-vehicles.html
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From kb at 2bits.com  Thu Jul 30 23:07:25 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 23:07:25 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <nn76flkl7cx45iv8pjovx7j3.1438256412141@email.android.com>
References: <nn76flkl7cx45iv8pjovx7j3.1438256412141@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW2hwzQVDp=0wsgLHgy6pQZPary50eT0HyGRO8imJQAk8Q@mail.gmail.com>

In light of Samsung's SSD being exonerated in the news today(1), and a TRIM
bug found in Linux, with the driver blacklisting stuff (probably
incorrectly), it seems that using TRIM is not something that is a given(2)

So, some questions to those using SSDs:

a. Do you use anything that enables TRIM on your SSD?

b. If so, do you add "discard" to fstab, or run fstrim from cron?

c. What other mount options do you use (noatime comes to mind, relatime is
the default since 2.6.something, other options)?

*Notes:*

i. You can tell if your SSD supports TRIM by issuing the command:

hdparm -I /dev/sdX | grep TRIM

ii. Ubuntu 14.04 has fstrim enabled as a weekly cron, but only for Intel
and Samsung SSDs.

iii. Other good references in (3) and (4).

(1)
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/07/30/1814200/samsung-finds-fixes-bug-in-linux-trim-code

(2) https://wiki.debian.org/SSDOptimization#WARNING

(3) https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_State_Drives

(4) https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/ssd
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Fri Jul 31 01:38:27 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B.S.)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 05:38:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW2hwzQVDp=0wsgLHgy6pQZPary50eT0HyGRO8imJQAk8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+TuoW2hwzQVDp=0wsgLHgy6pQZPary50eT0HyGRO8imJQAk8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <633679572.6231318.1438321107514.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>


>________________________________
> From: Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com>
>To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> 
>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 11:07 PM
>Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
> 
>
>

>In light of Samsung's SSD being exonerated in the news today(1), and a TRIM bug found in Linux, with the driver blacklisting stuff (probably incorrectly), it seems that using TRIM is not something that is a given(2)


Be fair ... article notes bug presents itself 'if the system is using linux md raid with raid0 or raid10'.

[From bug fix patch: This fixes a data corruption bug when using discard on top of MD linear,
raid0 and raid10 personalities.]

<phew!>


>So, some questions to those using SSDs:>
>a. Do you use anything that enables TRIM on your SSD?
>
>b. If so, do you add "discard" to fstab, or run fstrim from cron?
>
>c. What other mount options do you use (noatime comes to mind, relatime is the default since 2.6.something, other options)?



>From my reading when I first got my SSD, fstab has "defaults,noatime,nodiratime,discard" (ext4).

Reading further, now, http://linux.die.net/man/8/mkfs.ext3, looks like discard is the default. (discard feels trim related.) I also see that mkfs defaults come from /etc/mke2fs.conf


Topically, given meeting (btrfs) context ...

mkfs.btrfs has '--nodiscard' (Do not perform whole device TRIM operation by default.), but I can't tell on my 12.04 if it is the default. 'mkfs.btrfs -O list-all' does not work here. (BTRFS 0.19)
[https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Mkfs.btrfs] My 14.04 shows BTRFS 3.12. 'mkfs.btrfs -O list-all' does work there, but the available options don't seem fascinating in my use case.

[https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page] ... BTRFS feature ... "SSD (Flash storage) awareness (TRIM/Discard for reporting free blocks for reuse) and optimizations (e.g. avoiding unnecessary seek optimizations, sending writes in clusters, even if they are from unrelated files. This results in larger write operations and faster write throughput)"


btrfs now appears to also have a 'ssd' mount option. 
https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/FAQ#Is_Btrfs_optimized_for_SSD.3F . Interestingly, -O SSD disables trim/discard, and discard is not the default. There is also -O ssd_spread


My default take has been that better minds than mine choose default mount options, so generally go with them. Reassuring, though, is that more and more I see blurbs such as 'SSD aware', and since there is a spin rate file out there (0 for SSDs), it appears that SSD detection/awareness is present for the expertise from those minds to get applied. By default.

YMMV, of course.


A related thing I have recently come across, interesting for those of you still using 12.04 ... there is a ppa for loading/running trusty (14.04) kernels, going from something like 3.3 to 3.13. Given that the btrfs pages note significant changes and bug fixes as the kernel evolves, I suspect running the latest kernel you can is prudent. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack

Since it seems prudent to also update btrfs-tools, poking about revealed that 
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/btrfs-tools is out there.



>Notes:
>
>i. You can tell if your SSD supports TRIM by issuing the command: 
>
>hdparm -I /dev/sdX | grep TRIM 
>
>ii. Ubuntu 14.04 has fstrim enabled as a weekly cron, but only for Intel and Samsung SSDs.
>
>iii. Other good references in (3) and (4).
>
>(1) http://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/07/30/1814200/samsung-finds-fixes-bug-in-linux-trim-code
>
>(2) https://wiki.debian.org/SSDOptimization#WARNING
>
>(3) https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Solid_State_Drives
>
>(4) https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/ssd




From hgruetzmacher at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 07:33:20 2015
From: hgruetzmacher at gmail.com (Herman Gruetzmacher)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 07:33:20 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] Happy SysAdmin Day! [Check out the videos]
Message-ID: <819AE3B9669644208B56C509F46C487C@LenovaI7>

As this has been a topic of late I thought I would share this one from Digium I received
View this email on your mobile device or online



     
                 
           
             



                        Today is THE day... It's National System Administrator Appreciation Day.

                        If you're not sure exactly what that is, or you're a SysAdmin looking for a laugh, we have a couple of videos just for you!

                        We interviewed some of own our internal Digium folks and even took it to the streets to see just how much others know (or don?t know) about SysAdmins. Check out the videos here!

                        To all our SysAdmins out there, we want to celebrate you today and say THANK YOU to you and your team for all that you do!
                       
                 
           
             
           
                  Best regards,
                  Digium, Inc. | The Asterisk Company
                  +1 256-428-6262 

                  Check us out at www.digium.com & www.asterisk.org
                  Follow us:   
                 
            
             
     
     

Copyright ? Digium, Inc. - The Asterisk Company
445 Jan Davis Drive NW, Huntsville, AL 35806, USA +1 256-428-6000


Manage Email Subscriptions


Unsubscribe from all Digium Emails



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From kb at 2bits.com  Fri Jul 31 10:28:32 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 10:28:32 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <633679572.6231318.1438321107514.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CA+TuoW2hwzQVDp=0wsgLHgy6pQZPary50eT0HyGRO8imJQAk8Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<633679572.6231318.1438321107514.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW3UMJMLjTRDSNbkKR9jzrzP450Gt_dZVisv7CHzr7Ye0w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 1:38 AM, B.S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Be fair ... article notes bug presents itself 'if the system is using
> linux md raid with raid0 or raid10'.
>
> [From bug fix patch: This fixes a data corruption bug when using discard
> on top of MD linear,
> raid0 and raid10 personalities.]
>

The point here is that for the longest of time, it was thought that the
issue was within the Samsung drive, when it was not. To the extent that
drivers block certain drives based on such assumptions.

See below re: man page for fstrim-all.


> From my reading when I first got my SSD, fstab has
> "defaults,noatime,nodiratime,discard" (ext4).
>

How long have you been running with this?
And what drive model?
Does hdparm -I /dev/sdX say it has TRIM support?


> Reading further, now, http://linux.die.net/man/8/mkfs.ext3, looks like
> discard is the default. (discard feels trim related.) I also see that mkfs
> defaults come from /etc/mke2fs.conf
>

Actually, "discard" is an option for mount

http://linux.die.net/man/8/mount

But fstrim is enabled by default in Ubuntu 14.04 and its variants. Look
what is in /etc/cron.weekly/fstrim, and you will see fstrim-all.

If you check the man page for it:

http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/trusty/man8/fstrim-all.8.html

You will see:

This only runs on Intel and Samsung SSDs as some SSDs with faulty firmware
may encounter data loss problems when running fstrim  under  high  I/O  load

So we are back to this selectivity per vendor thing, in utilities and in
kernel drivers.

As for what is the best way to trim, this guy summarizes things well:

https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/ssd#TOC-Preferred-method:-by-rc.local

You will see that he recommends running fstrim in rc.local, so it runs once
at boot time.

He then recommends that you disable the weekly fstrim that is enabled by
default in 14.04.

And for machines that are always on, he recommends a daily fstrim.

He also says that discard is not advised.

Now, is that the final word on the matter? Who knows? Information conflicts
from various sources, and that is why I am asking the list what their
experience is.

Topically, given meeting (btrfs) context ...
>

Skipping btrfs stuff since I am not using it yet. Still on ext4.


> A related thing I have recently come across, interesting for those of you
> still using 12.04 ...


On some of the servers, I am still using 12.04 because of the PHP version
that comes with it and it being compatible with Drupal 6.

On the laptop, where the SSD is now, I am on 14.04.
-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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From bs27975 at yahoo.ca  Fri Jul 31 12:23:29 2015
From: bs27975 at yahoo.ca (B.S.)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 16:23:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW3UMJMLjTRDSNbkKR9jzrzP450Gt_dZVisv7CHzr7Ye0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+TuoW3UMJMLjTRDSNbkKR9jzrzP450Gt_dZVisv7CHzr7Ye0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1228930734.6468816.1438359809798.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>



>________________________________
> From: Khalid Baheyeldin <kb at 2bits.com>
>To: KWLUG discussion <kwlug-disc at kwlug.org> 
>Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 10:28 AM
>Subject: Re: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
> 
>
>
>On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 1:38 AM, B.S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>Be fair ... article notes bug presents itself 'if the system is using linux md raid with raid0 or raid10'.
>>
>>[From bug fix patch: This fixes a data corruption bug when using discard on top of MD linear,
>>raid0 and raid10 personalities.]
>>
>
>

>The point here is that for the longest of time, it was thought that the issue was within the Samsung drive, when it was not. To the extent that drivers block certain drives based on such assumptions.

The point taken from the phrasing of your message, though, is ... THERE'S A KERNEL BUG IN THE SSD CODE ... OMG my drive is about to die!!!!!

Evidently not what you intended, but how I took it ... (-:
>From my reading when I first got my SSD, fstab has "defaults,noatime,nodiratime,discard" (ext4).
>>
>
>

>How long have you been running with this? 

Sorry, I can't remember with any certainty. I want to say 3 years, it's been at least 2, but probably longer. smartctl isn't showing me an in service or manufacturing date.


>And what drive model? 

Model: 2.5" 120GB MLC SSD
SSD P/N: PW120GS25SSDR

# smatctl -i /dev/sda

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Device Model:     Patriot Wildfire
Serial Number:    PT...
LU WWN Device Id: 0 000120 000000000
Firmware Version: 319ABBF0
User Capacity:    120,034,123,776 bytes [120 GB]
Sector Size:      512 bytes logical/physical
Device is:        Not in smartctl database [for details use: -P showall]
ATA Version is:   8
ATA Standard is:  ACS-2 revision 3
Local Time is:    Fri Jul 31
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled



>Does hdparm -I /dev/sdX say it has TRIM support?

# hdparm -I /dev/sda

ATA device, with non-removable media
Model Number:       Patriot Wildfire 
Serial Number:      PT...    
Firmware Revision:  319ABBF0
Transport:          Serial, ATA8-AST, SATA 1.0a, SATA II Extensions, SATA Rev 2.5, SATA Rev 2.6, SATA Rev 3.0
Standards:
Used: unknown (minor revision code 0x0110) 
Supported: 9 8 7 6 5 
Likely used: 9
Configuration:
Logical         max     current
cylinders       16383   16383
heads           16      16
sectors/track   63      63
--
CHS current addressable sectors:   16514064
LBA    user addressable sectors:  234441648
LBA48  user addressable sectors:  234441648
Logical  Sector size:                   512 bytes
Physical Sector size:                   512 bytes
Logical Sector-0 offset:                  0 bytes
device size with M = 1024*1024:      114473 MBytes
device size with M = 1000*1000:      120034 MBytes (120 GB)
cache/buffer size  = unknown
Nominal Media Rotation Rate: Solid State Device
Capabilities:
LBA, IORDY(can be disabled)
Queue depth: 32
Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, no device specific minimum
R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16  Current = 16
Advanced power management level: 254
DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5 *udma6 
Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 
Cycle time: no flow control=120ns  IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
Enabled Supported:
*    SMART feature set
Security Mode feature set
*    Power Management feature set
*    Write cache
Look-ahead
*    Host Protected Area feature set
*    WRITE_BUFFER command
*    READ_BUFFER command
*    NOP cmd
*    DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
*    Advanced Power Management feature set
Power-Up In Standby feature set
*    SET_FEATURES required to spinup after power up
*    48-bit Address feature set
*    Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE
*    FLUSH_CACHE_EXT
*    SMART error logging
*    SMART self-test
*    General Purpose Logging feature set
*    WRITE_{DMA|MULTIPLE}_FUA_EXT
*    64-bit World wide name
*    IDLE_IMMEDIATE with UNLOAD
Write-Read-Verify feature set
*    WRITE_UNCORRECTABLE_EXT command
*    {READ,WRITE}_DMA_EXT_GPL commands
*    Segmented DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
*    Gen1 signaling speed (1.5Gb/s)
*    Gen2 signaling speed (3.0Gb/s)
*    Gen3 signaling speed (6.0Gb/s)
*    Native Command Queueing (NCQ)
*    Host-initiated interface power management
*    Phy event counters
*    unknown 76[14]
*    unknown 76[15]
*    DMA Setup Auto-Activate optimization
Device-initiated interface power management
*    Software settings preservation
*    SMART Command Transport (SCT) feature set
*    SCT Data Tables (AC5)
*    DOWNLOAD MICROCODE DMA command
*    SET MAX SETPASSWORD/UNLOCK DMA commands
*    WRITE BUFFER DMA command
*    READ BUFFER DMA command
*    Data Set Management TRIM supported (limit 1 block)
*    Deterministic read data after TRIM
Security: 
Master password revision code = 65534
supported
not     enabled
not     locked
frozen
not     expired: security count
not     supported: enhanced erase
2min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. 
Logical Unit WWN Device Identifier: 0000120000000000
NAA             : 0
IEEE OUI        : 000120
Unique ID       : 000000000
Checksum: correct



# cat /sys/block/sda/queue/rotational0

>Reading further, now, http://linux.die.net/man/8/mkfs.ext3, looks like discard is the default. (discard feels trim related.) I also see that mkfs defaults come from /etc/mke2fs.conf
>>
>
>

>Actually, "discard" is an option for mount

... and where do you think fs-specific mount options are documented?

...
>This only runs on Intel and Samsung SSDs as some SSDs ...

Yes, as your links note, there is some sensitivity to models, and settings changes made when found. Didn't know that, thank you. Good to know.

>So we are back to this selectivity per vendor thing, in utilities and in kernel drivers.


At least it's not every user. Actually, my point about those in the know more than I (so use defaults) is actually reinforced. They will know faster than I what settings to use, and have them programmed in, long before I'm able to buy the drive retail (probably). Perhaps we should spare ourselves the agony of 2nd guessing them and just stay with the defaults. As you noted, they're already taking steps to trim prudently.

Given Lori's notes about longevity ... 2nd guessing may not bring any noticeable difference for the pain involved. Never mind when you figure out later that you misread it the first time. (It's rare that I say things such as this about 2nd guessing. It has been striking me lately as to just how much 'cruft' is in the average install these days, and I just can't keep up with it all, let alone remember if I applied across all systems. nfs, cross-system consistent passwd and group files to facilitate LDAP is what struck me most recently. <sigh>)

Having said that ... I take your point. Only you know when in a server, how used (SQL, etc.), and so on.

Mind you ... does one typically have to think about such things in a cloud server? Isn't the hardware / uptime / trim / so on their problem that you have no control over?




From kb at 2bits.com  Fri Jul 31 12:46:51 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 12:46:51 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <1228930734.6468816.1438359809798.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CA+TuoW3UMJMLjTRDSNbkKR9jzrzP450Gt_dZVisv7CHzr7Ye0w@mail.gmail.com>
	<1228930734.6468816.1438359809798.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW3L9EG_ULuUWA4tq3VPS-wfAe_P5Zpp=yig=0upknSeOA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 12:23 PM, B.S. <bs27975 at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> The point taken from the phrasing of your message, though, is ... THERE'S
> A KERNEL BUG IN THE SSD CODE ... OMG my drive is about to die!!!!!
>

> Evidently not what you intended, but how I took it ... (-:
>

No, it is mainly about the blacklisting of some models, and conflicting
information re: discard or fstrim with cron, ....etc.

*    Data Set Management TRIM supported (limit 1 block)
>

I have that line, but with 16 blocks instead of 1.


> *    Deterministic read data after TRIM
>

I don't have the above line though.


> >This only runs on Intel and Samsung SSDs as some SSDs ...
>
> Yes, as your links note, there is some sensitivity to models, and settings
> changes made when found. Didn't know that, thank you. Good to know.
>

With that info, one has to wonder if fstrim-all does anything at all. This
is the default way Ubuntu 14.04 trims SSDs. It may run and does nothing at
all on non-Samsung/Intel SSDs ...


> Mind you ... does one typically have to think about such things in a cloud
> server? Isn't the hardware / uptime / trim / so on their problem that you
> have no control over?
>

Most hosting providers will be using enterprise class drives, usually from
Samsung or Intel. So those will be supported and better used on Linux.

We are using consumer stuff.

I gathered some courage, took a deep breath, and ran fstrim manually, using:

# time fstrim -v /
/: 219199045632 bytes were trimmed

It took 20.5 seconds.

-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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From opengeometry at yahoo.ca  Fri Jul 31 15:27:07 2015
From: opengeometry at yahoo.ca (William Park)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 15:27:07 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <CA+TuoW3UMJMLjTRDSNbkKR9jzrzP450Gt_dZVisv7CHzr7Ye0w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+TuoW2hwzQVDp=0wsgLHgy6pQZPary50eT0HyGRO8imJQAk8Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<633679572.6231318.1438321107514.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+TuoW3UMJMLjTRDSNbkKR9jzrzP450Gt_dZVisv7CHzr7Ye0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150731192707.GA7417@node1.localdomain>

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 10:28:32AM -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> The point here is that for the longest of time, it was thought that the
> issue was within the Samsung drive, when it was not. To the extent that
> drivers block certain drives based on such assumptions.

Does it mean that Sandisk has been ok up to now?
-- 
William




From kb at 2bits.com  Fri Jul 31 15:48:06 2015
From: kb at 2bits.com (Khalid Baheyeldin)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 15:48:06 -0400
Subject: [kwlug-disc] SMART for SSDs
In-Reply-To: <20150731192707.GA7417@node1.localdomain>
References: <CA+TuoW2hwzQVDp=0wsgLHgy6pQZPary50eT0HyGRO8imJQAk8Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<633679572.6231318.1438321107514.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
	<CA+TuoW3UMJMLjTRDSNbkKR9jzrzP450Gt_dZVisv7CHzr7Ye0w@mail.gmail.com>
	<20150731192707.GA7417@node1.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CA+TuoW2wi=v1i0PcoHzekr+e4WQ12gJiB8QFzQKg81d8_Pvw-A@mail.gmail.com>

Perhaps, but if the kernel (or some utilities) was blacklisting certain
functionality for all drives except Samsung and Intel, then unless you have
a really new kernel, that behaviour will persist.

On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 3:27 PM, William Park <opengeometry at yahoo.ca> wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 10:28:32AM -0400, Khalid Baheyeldin wrote:
> > The point here is that for the longest of time, it was thought that the
> > issue was within the Samsung drive, when it was not. To the extent that
> > drivers block certain drives based on such assumptions.
>
> Does it mean that Sandisk has been ok up to now?
> --
> William
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kwlug-disc mailing list
> kwlug-disc at kwlug.org
> http://kwlug.org/mailman/listinfo/kwlug-disc_kwlug.org
>



-- 
Khalid M. Baheyeldin
2bits.com, Inc.
Fast Reliable Drupal
Drupal optimization, development, customization and consulting.
Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. --  Edsger W.Dijkstra
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. --   Leonardo da Vinci
For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong." -- H.L. Mencken
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