[kwlug-disc] mutt-compatible mail client

Paul Nijjar paul_nijjar at yahoo.ca
Sun May 11 06:42:37 EDT 2014

On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 03:24:57AM -0400, Bob Jonkman wrote:
> William Park wrote:
> > Well, if it was working, then what's changed?
> Yahoo changed.  They recently started enforcing DMARC, which, to
> quote, Breaks! Every! Mailing! List! In! The! World!
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/04/08/yahoo_breaks_every_mailing_list_in_the_world_says_email_guru/
> I see Paul is using a Yahoo e-mail address, so he might be affected.

Thanks for that link. I think you are on to the right track, although
I am still not sure how to fix things. I look at the messages that I
cannot reply to, and there are dkim errors. But I can post fresh
messages to those lists. 

Here is the offending header, from lists.wpirg.org (which is hosted by

Authentication-Results: mta1596.mail.gq1.yahoo.com from=lists.wpirg.org; domainkeys=neutral (no sig); from=yahoo.ca; dkim=permerror (bad sig)    

It's the "dkim=permerror" that is causing the issue. 

Here is a message I sent to kwlug-disc (also hosted by CCj/Clearline): 

Authentication-Results: mta1510.mail.ne1.yahoo.com  from=kwlug.org; domainkeys=neutral (no sig);  from=yahoo.ca; dkim=neutral (no sig)

I can see that other people sending to the garden list are producing
messages with "dkim=permerror" as well (eg from Gmail). This is also
affecting other messages on this server (fvc-wat-announce,
discuss at kwartzlab, rainbow-announce) and at least one email list on
another server.

But no messages to kwlug-disc seem to be affected. What's so
different? Could it be a hostname thing? (kwlug.org vs
lists.wpirg.org?). But then the kwartzlab.ca lists should be okay
too, I think.

Of course, if I respond to this list using the Yahoo! webmail
interface (which I kind of hate) then my messages will go through.
That is why I was asking about mutt; I assumed something in my mail
client was messed up. 

> Perhaps the list causing problems mungs the message headers so that
> the mail appears to come from the mailing list, whereas the KWLUG
> mailing list preserves the original sender's name and address.  DMARC
> requires the headers to remain unmodified, and for the Return-to
> header to match the sending domain.  Mailing lists can modify those
> things, so Yahoo could now be rejecting those messages.

This is not the case, I think. But there could be some mailman
configuration setting at work. 

> I suggest that Paul tries sending messages to the mailing list from a
> different (non-Yahoo) address. If that works, then I suggest finding a
> new mail provider.
> - --Bob, who suggests finding a new mail provider regardless.

I understand the sentiment, but boy does that idea make me grouchy. I
have no great love for Yahoo!, but it has been working "well enough".
There is a lot of inertia involved in switching addresses. Also, I am
a cheapskate, so finding a gratis email provider that is reliable is
difficult and unfair to expect. (I guess my privacy is a small price
to pay for "free" email?)

- Paul


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