[kwlug-disc] why not pick a kwlug project for the web site?

unsolicited unsolicited at swiz.ca
Wed Dec 30 16:44:18 EST 2009

I disagree, kwlug is the perfect most sensible independent place for 
it. Given your points, it sounds like it would be a unique offering, 
and therefore distinguishing. I'll gladly maintain it. To points in 
the past, some problems would have to be surmounted first - e.g. dated 

I may have had an accurate summary, that doesn't mean I like it. It's 
certainly not my vision for a community group. It does seem to be the 
current group consensus though, as few are speaking up. And I bow to 
the consensus. If you disagree, and don't speak up - you get what you 

To me, kwlug should be more than just meetings. But I have no clear 
vision, myself. It's an impression, a feeling - nothing more 
substantial than that yet. And calls for suggestions / help, here, 
have met nothing but silence. Fair enough. I'll probably help when 
someone calls for it, but nobody has. That's also fair enough.

To me kwlug is about people, not presentations. It's about community, 
not a professional association (commercialism). But both statements 
are too black and white - current reality is somewhere in between. We 
could move some distance on either side of that line without becoming 

Acknowledging contributions / sponsorship, absolutely. An independent 
list of linux related <thunks> in K-W, absolutely. Ads on kwlug.org, I 
don't think so. But I can't figure out, technically, how to get there.

Bob Jonkman wrote, On 12/30/2009 4:20 PM:
> Maybe there is a need for a comprehensive list of commercial Linux 
> businesses in the KW area.  But KWLUG.org is not the place for that 
> list.  You can easily set up such a list yourself, and the domain name 
> linuxexpert.ca seems like an excellent vehicle for it.  As an SEO expert 
> you'll probably find a way to monetize it too.
> You yourself have has provided the best summary of KWLUG in all the 
> navel-gazing conversations we've had this month:
>> And while most folks in the lug are advocates, the lug itself doesn't 
>> really do advocacy.  It's a group of enthusiasts sharing their 
>> enthusiasm - that's what it is.
> I think it's a fairly well established KWLUG consensus that money is 
> icky.  Not just money for KWLUG activities, but other people's money is 
> icky too. So, for the Web site maintainers there's no desire or 
> incentive to plug local commercial Linux businesses on the site.  Too 
> much work, resulting only in ickiness.
> Insurance Squared Inc. wrote:
>> I'll mildly disagree with a couple of points.  First, in terms of 
>> KWLUG acting somehow as a social site, I'm not opposed to the idea. 
>> The mailing list goes off tangent, not the least of which is because I 
>> sometimes use the list as my personal linux help forum.  I'd like to 
>> be able to still do that occassionally.  In fact, a forum on the site 
>> that would not only allow for this type of venue but also keep the 
>> information out there in a readable format for others - well, I'd be 
>> all for that.  So while I'm not going to be a proponent for this type 
>> of thing, I wouldn't discount the idea either.
>> Along those lines, I set up this site: linuxexpert.ca .  Right now I'm 
>> using it just as a notepad for myself, but someday, somehow, when time 
>> allows, I'll promote that out there.  I don't mind the idea that the 
>> lug was doing stuff along those lines.
>> second point: In terms of commercialism - I recommend the lug members 
>> get over their somewhat knee jerk reaction to any signs of 
>> commercialism. We all need to put food on the table, this is not a bad 
>> thing.  And being a lug does not preclude dealing with or talking 
>> about commercial aspects.
>> For example, keeping commercialism out of the lug is actually a 
>> disservice to many folks - myself included.  No, my business shouldn't 
>> be realistically on the LUG site.  But netdirect?  Uhhh - they should 
>> absolutely be promoted on the lug.  I'm don't do linux for a business 
>> - I use linux IN my business.  And when I need help with linux there 
>> are precious few linux consultants in New Hamburg and even fewer in 
>> Baden.  Why wouldn't the lug provide me a list of potential resources, 
>> places I can pay money to get linux help?  That seems like exactly the 
>> type of resource the lug should be providing - remove the distaste for 
>> anything commercial and I think this is an automatic.  And maybe I 
>> don't like the way that the folks at netdirect cut their hair, I want 
>> to deal with cleanshaven people only - wouldn't the LUG be providing 
>> me with choice if there was some sort of directory of local linux 
>> firms?  This is providing a service to people interested in linux and 
>> assisting in the propogation of linux.
>> There's a regular poster here who makes money providing courses on 
>> linux.  I've not seen any of his courses that have caught my eye yet, 
>> but as a linux 'user', I am interested in linux courses and have paid 
>> to take courses a number of times in the past.  Why wouldn't the lug 
>> provide listings for linux courses?  Again, this is a resource that 
>> visitors can use.
>> AND if I visit the lug and find a 'commercial' resource that I like - 
>> and money changes hands - then this is a very, very good thing.  
>> Because now people are making some money from linux.  I see that as a 
>> good thing, something that needs to happen more frequently. 
>> So that's my second mild disagreement - irrational fear of any aspect 
>> of commercialism is unfounded and detrimental to linux rather than 
>> being protective.  It's likely to be better for the and linux in 
>> general if there were some 'linux commercialism' aspect allowed.  The 
>> Lug doesn't need to make recommendations for that to happen, just 
>> require any commercialism is linux related.
>> Lori Paniak wrote:
>>> ++
>>> I believe that the KWLUG website is fine as it is.  If people want to
>>> add features outside of blogs, they should feel free to set up their own
>>> sites (as many of us do) and maintain them as they see fit. 
>>> There has been a lot of discussion recently as to what kwlug.org should
>>> be/do.  Let's try to agree on what it is not.  KWLUG is a "lean"
>>> organization by design and I don't think it should be in the web hosting
>>> business.  The web site should not be a "social site".  I would like to
>>> keep commercial logos/advertising from the site as well.  The
>>> maintainers of kwlug.org (you know who you are) have better things to do
>>> than customize the site to each member's whim.
>>> So long as kwlug.org keeps an efficient record of past and upcoming
>>> FLOSS events in our region, I feel it is doing its job.  The information
>>> currently available there shows the KWLUG to be the pre-eminent Linux
>>> user group in the country. And that is something to be proud of.
>>> Only the "F/LOSS event calendar" needs some fixing up...
>>> On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 18:36 +0000, Richard Weait wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Joe Wennechuk
>>>> <youcanreachmehere at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I guess one thing I would like to see on the site is more 
>>>>> comprehensive info
>>>>> about my fellow members. I don't know all of the issues about 
>>>>> privacy and
>>>>> what info should be posted, but I would like to see more about skills,
>>>>> interests, maybe a picture?
>>>> KWLUGers can add a photo to their profile on kwlug.org.  Things on
>>>> KWLUG.org are much more locked-down that on a social site.
>>>> We don't link to user accounts from blog entires.
>>>> We don't show user photos in blog entries.
>>>> If you do look at a user profile you won't see the optional photo
>>>> unless you are logged in.
>>>> Not many of us have added photos.
>>>> Even if you register, you need to have posting permissions added
>>>> manually by an admin.  Just ask.
>>>> KWLUG ain't a social site.  It's practically an anti-social site.
>>>> Except for the part where we invite everybody with an interest to join
>>>> us at our meetings.
>>>> Any user could add their desired social links to the site .sig file so
>>>> that those links would appear in their blog entries.
>>>> None of this "anti-social" is accidental.  Much of it dates from my
>>>> rebuilding the site a few years back so the blame lies with me.  My
>>>> goals were:
>>>> 1) Make the LUG event calendar work without maintenance.   And so it
>>>> does.  Those who remember the old site remember that somebody had to
>>>> change the "next" meeting announcement after each meeting.  Then that
>>>> didn't happen we ended up looking at stale info until somebody fixed
>>>> it.  I didn't like that.  That was my itch.  I scratched it.
>>>> 2) ...
>>>> 3) Profit.
>>>> And that is it.  I leaned towards privacy and minimum privilege where
>>>> I thought to do so.
>>>> The old site had, IIRC, Linux book reviews.  It was underused.
>>>> We added individual member blogs.  Raul uses that regularly.  We're
>>>> all welcome to do so.  Raul, can you share how you decide what to blog
>>>> at kwlug and what to blog on your personal site?
>>>> I think we have a LUG lending library with some presence on the site.
>>>> Charles might be maintaining that.  We've had physical issues with the
>>>> library since moving from Queen Street Commons.  It's a great
>>>> collection of books.  Should we donate it to a place that can make it
>>>> more-widely available?  High school library?  Public library?
>>>> Does THE KWLUG need to do more as THE KWLUG?  I say that the only
>>>> mission of the lug is to schedule meetings and hold them when we
>>>> schedule them.  In support of that, we have a web site a mailing list
>>>> and mailing list <-> forum syncing(?)  All else is off-topic from my
>>>> limited perspective.  We don't need to do more.  In terms of UNIX
>>>> principles we do one thing and do it well.  We meet.  Eight years and
>>>> running, right?
>>>> Can we do more as individuals and as a group?  Sure.  Some do, some
>>>> don't, no pressure.
>>>> Are deficiencies of the web site preventing KWLUGers from doing good
>>>> things?  I hope not.  If so, I think the web site is a poor scapegoat.
>>>>  We can blog there and link off-site there and schedule events there.
>>>> What prevents us from linking from the site and mailing list to a
>>>> collaboration site to incubate the next big thing?  Should the next
>>>> big thing take off somebody will migrate it to the KWLUG web site if
>>>> that is what is required.  Or vice versa.

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